"Skinny Model Ban" in Madrid

[kimmy]

i don't know if this has been posted yet (if so, feel free to smack me with a frozen sturgen) but i'm sure everyone's heard about this.

in Madrid (which is one of the fashion capitals of the world, mind you) they've passed a "skinny model ban" where they won't permit models with a BMI of less than 18 (i think) strut their stuff on the catwalk. they're justification for this is that they "don't want to continue pushing an unhealthy image onto young women," and that they want to cut down on "dangerous dieting and eating habits of the models."

now, i know they're doing this with good intentions..but i feel kind of...singled out now. my BMI has never been 18, no matter how much i eat/exercise, i just don't put on weight very well. but that's natural for me, it's not due to an eating disorder or anything.

i feel like them banning "skinny" models is just as bad as not putting overweight ladies on the catwalk. so, it's the same thing (in my mind at least) only, the tables have turned now. thoughts?

edit: it is Madrid, not Milan

my bad

 

[lara]

You're maybe thinking of Madrid Fashion Week?

Milan is skinny-central. No way are they ever going to ban beanpoles.

 

[Shimmer]

I think skinnymodel ban is a misnomer. Perhaps they should have called it "freakishlyunhealthymodelban"

 

[Shawna]

I think it is a step in the right direction, but done poorly. When I work out at the gym and eat completely healthy, my BMI dips below 18. I am not unhealthy, and I eat like a horse. I understand where they are going with this, but they should be promoting healthy bodies, not banning scrawny ones.

 

[Hawkeye]

While their intentions are good i gotta agree theres just something not about going about it the right way.

 

[Beauty Mark]

BMI isn't very accurate, according to some experts.

I like that they're finally looking at the issue, and I hope they further examine it.

 

[Raerae]

I think a "blanket" fix, AKA using BMI as a reference is a really, really bad way to address the problem. Regardless of if it was done in Milan (I only heard of Madrid, is this recent? Link pls!), Madrid, or wherever.

I think the designers hiring for catwalks should use better judgement when choosing models to present their clothing, not pick an arbitrary BMI number. 18 btw, is the ABSOLUTE minimum considered "healthy" onthe BMI scale, so a 17.9 your considered underweight, and 18 if perfectly fine according to the magic numbers anyways.

Which is stupid, since it doesn't take into consideration women like myself who have naturally low BMI's regardless of their diet. I sit around 18, typically in the 17's, regardless of what I choose to eat. I've ALWAYS been this way.

If you want to promote a "healthy" image (again, this is all someone's personal opinion) they need to choose Models who dont look like skeletons. That will motivate unhealthy skinny models to change their diets if they want to get work. As well as allow women who are just very thin naturally, and are below a 18 BMI, to keep their jobs.

 

[d_flawless]

i agree with shawna...BMI is not necessarily weight alone...

i don't even think it's so much what's on the catwalk but what's in the magazines...for me, magazines/ads are much more influential, because though models are beautiful and wear flashy clothes/have extravagant lifestyles, actresses are more role model types, because they are more tangible, and they're often more profiled

 

[kimmy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lara You're maybe thinking of Madrid Fashion Week? Milan is skinny-central. No way are they ever going to ban beanpoles.

yeah it was Madrid

my bad, it was like 3 am my time when i was thinking about this hahaha!

 

[Shimmer]

the thing is though, that since 18 is the number listed as lowest possible and still "healthy", the line has to be drawn somewhere.
Having a lower than 18 BMI starts to have a negative effect on the body, as such, that's a good basis for the line. Personally, I think it's an awesome movement.

The line has to be put down somewhere and if BMI is it, ok, that's great...just be consistent with it.

They didn't choose a "high" BMI, they chose the absolutely minimum healthy BMI as the line...it's a good start, IMO.

 

[Uchina]

I doubt this will be of much consequence. The models were thinner than ever last season. Snejana looked like death.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer the thing is though, that since 18 is the number listed as lowest possible and still "healthy", the line has to be drawn somewhere.

Minimum healthy for who? It's already been stated by several people that they have perfectly healthy BMI's that are under 18. Basing it off BMI, which isn't a very accurate indicator of health, since were all different, is a terrible way of chosing who should or shoulnd't be allowed to model. It's not fair to discriminate against people who have perfectly healthy BMI's that are under 18, just because some women choose to live unhealthy lifestyles and have eating disorders.

My weight was between 100 and 105 when I was running CrossCountry in highschool, and I ate 3 healthy meals a day, with plenty of snacks. Carb loaded, did protein shakes etc. That puts my BMI between 16.1 and 16.9 according to:

http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/dnpa/bmi/...calculator.htm

I'm 108 on the scale today, which according to this puts me at 17.4 BMI. So according to this scale, i'm underweight, and also not eligible for their catwalks.

IMHO I was the healthiest I EVER was when I was training for Cross Country. I my best ever 3 mile race was done in 17min 10 seconds, which is a really good time. We trained in Bigbear over the summer, and we would run around the entire lake on the last day before we left. I'd invite any of you to do the 23 mile run around Big Bear Lake, not to mention it's high altitude. I coulnd't do anything like that today. And my BMI is higher now than it was when I was in my best shape of my life.

BMI is a horribly outdated way to measure if someone is healthy. It takes no consideration to a person's skeletal frame, muscle mass, etc. There are much better ways to guage if someone is healthy. This is just a band-aid fix, it's not addressing the problem.

 

[Shimmer]

*shrug* Ok RaeRae.

There's obviously, because you are healthy, no significant damage to a female's body when the BMI is under a certain point. Your implication is that none of these women are unhealthy.



It's called an average for a reason. TRUE BMI measurement *does* take into account muscle mass etc.
However, the models in question are severely lacking in anything resembling muscle mass, tone, or tissue.
There's NO question that the models being discussed are unhealthy, anyone looking at them with two even partially working eyes in their head and a reasonable mind (meaning not distorted by any body issues) can see that these women are not healthy. Anyone looking at their self confessed eating habits can see that they are not healthy.
You say they're discriminating against perfectly healthy people? No, they're not. The vast majority, and I do mean VAST majority, of the women walking the catwalk maintain their 'figure' by snorting coke, smoking meth, eating nothing but water and lettuce, doing a daily scarfnbarf, or anyone combination thereof as well as other things I'm sure. To say or imply that they don't would be ludicrous, and delusional.
You have admitted, on numerous occasions in these very forums that your perception of body image is skewed at times, and that's fine, that's your own issue to work out, but to use your own self as an example of 'healthy' vs 'not healthy' is a bit inaccurate.
I realize you say you can run nearly marathon distances. Many females with eating disorders have extremely high endurance levels, because they spend so much time running the treadmills, neighborhoods, and / or elliptical machines.
I am not stating, nor am I implying that you have an ED, I am only referencing statements you've made publicly regarding your own body perception, and stating facts regarding behaviour of other females.
I can understand the logic behind the BMI use.
These women are not minded and watched over by the fashion houses running the shows. Nor are they watched and minded over by their agencies, nor their reps, nor the government. No one can MAKE them eat or not eat, and since the respective authorities really don't have the time or the ability to take into consideration ModelA's personal nutrition and activity level daily, they have to apply a standard somewhere.
Biologically speaking a sustained BMI of under 18% isn't healthy for a female. You can google plenty of articles that will support this very point.

Is it a bandaid? Of course, but I don't see anyone else offering any better ideas.

 

[Shawna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer However, the models in question are severely lacking in anything resembling muscle mass, tone, or tissue.

This is the point I was trying to get across. Instead of having scrawny scarecrow women modelling, they should have ones with some muscle on them. That way they are promoting a healthy lean body image instead of a coke or ED induced one. If that ever were to happen (ha ha) then the BMI under 18 wouldn't necessarily come into play. However, until hell freezes over and models become healthy, I guess it is a start.

 

[Shimmer]

Exactly.

 

[quandolak]

Just a thought here. Dont bite my head off for it
Some people are naturally very skinny . Some are naturally very large. Just as its their natural weight does not mean that both sides dont have to work hard towards a more healthy weight for the sake of health if nothing else.

 

[Shimmer]

Indeed.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Exactly.

We both suggested that on one post or another FYI.

from my earlier post...

Quote:

I think the designers hiring for catwalks should use better judgement when choosing models to present their clothing, not pick an arbitrary BMI number

I'm not defending the methods used by models to maintain their skeletal figures. Nor do I find being "that" skinny attractive. I do however think that band-aid fixes are unfair to the women who are HEALTHY and below a 18 BMI. I'm sure it's not all of them, maybe not even most of them. But there are naturally skinny women, who do not have any sort of eating disorder who would be prevented from being "natural" because of this band-aid rule. And I dont think thats fair.

As you said, it's obvious when a girl is "too skinny" and I agree. The designers choosing models from their shows should choose healthy models, not ones that are just skin and bones.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by quandolak Just a thought here. Dont bite my head off for it Some people are naturally very skinny . Some are naturally very large. Just as its their natural weight does not mean that both sides dont have to work hard towards a more healthy weight for the sake of health if nothing else.

Sorry, i'm not getting fat for the sake of some arbitrary BMI number because it says I'm underweight and unhealthy, when it does little to actually look at my body, and how that effects my mass.

I dont have an average frame, thus, your "average" BMI number is always going to say that I'm underweight. Just because I dont have a few extra pounds in bone/muscle/fat/skin/blood/etc that go along with having larger body. Not even including my high metabolism (just passed a drug test for my new job with flying colors, so no i'm not snorting lines, and I quit smoking almost 2 years ago.)

You should want to be whats healthy for YOU, because YOU want to be healthy. I dont need some ideal on whats healthy for the average woman being applied to me. I'm not average, so thus it can never be accurateley applied.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer I realize you say you can run nearly marathon distances.

USED to be able too =P I haven't put on a pair of running shoes since i graduated highschool. My lazy butt goes to work and sits in a chair, and then goes home and sits in another chair, or relaxes on the couch. I'm hardly active anymore, and easily in the worst shape of my life. Well maybe not the worst, I dont smoke cigarette's or pot anymore since I move out of the environment. So i'm in the 2nd worst shape of my life. =P