"Skinny Model Ban" in Madrid

[Raerae]

And just a FYI, this is a very sensitive topic for me because of the reverse abuse I get on a constant basis from complete strangers, friends, and family about my weight, because I'm thin. I dont harp on women who are obviously in the obese or overweight catagories regarding BMI about being fat, yet that never stops them from making comments about how I need to eat more, gain weight whatever.

My Mom has gone as far as to threaten to take me to the hospital if I lose more weight (she see's me like every 2 weeks, sometimes more sometimes less), when my weight has NOT changed since the last time she saw me, or the time before that, or before that, etc etc. Just because one of the womens daughters in their new neighborhood IS severly anarexic, and has been hospitalized multiple times. So suddenly in the span of a few weeks since they learned about this, I've developed a case of anarexia. The fact that I sit down with them for 3 meals a day and clear my plate and eat JUST as much as my Mom does seems to be completely ignore while I'm visiting. It gets worse when the Ana girl has an episode that the Mom needs to share with the other neighborhood women.

You would be touchie too, if AFTER you have gone to lunch, eaten, and come back, co-workers in your office (who are all fatasses no less) offer to buy you lunch (or just bring it back for me w/out asking and put it on my desk) because, "you shouldn't be not eating." I dont even get the benefit of the doubt with some of them. Or how about the comments from the asshole guys who come to lunch on occasion, "Oh look she eating! She's probably just going to throw it up anyways. It's obvious she's anarexic." I dont even know where to start with those people. Not only do they not even know which ED is which, i can't even EAT in front of people w/out rude comments. And they wonder why I stopped going out to lunch with their group.

Yeh I have self-image issues, and would change things about myself in a second if given the chance. But they have nothing to do with my weight, if anything I would kill for a larger cup size, and some wider hips. For every girl who hates her curves, there is another one like me who hates the fact she never got any. My Mom is well endowed, and I'm barely an A, i got screwed in that department.

And yes I'm HIGHLY aware of my weight, if only because OTHER people force me to be aware of it. Anytime I meet someone for the first time, ANYWHERE, there is always a reference to me being so tiny, or so thin, or ask how much do I weight, or how do I keep my weight off. And many times they wont believe me when i tell them I eat regular foods. Or even ask me strait up if I purge after meals (I can't STAND throwing up, it's the worst feeling in the world).

So yeh i get sensitive about topics like these.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Sorry, i'm not getting fat for the sake of some arbitrary BMI number because it says I'm underweight and unhealthy, when it does little to actually look at my body, and how that effects my mass. I dont have an average frame, thus, your "average" BMI number is always going to say that I'm underweight. Just because I dont have a few extra pounds in bone/muscle/fat/skin/blood/etc that go along with having larger body. Not even including my high metabolism (just passed a drug test for my new job with flying colors, so no i'm not snorting lines, and I quit smoking almost 2 years ago.) You should want to be whats healthy for YOU, because YOU want to be healthy. I dont need some ideal on whats healthy for the average woman being applied to me. I'm not average, so thus it can never be accurateley applied.

No one said you should "get fat".

And, no one is imposing an arbitrary BMI number on you. Your physician is the one responsible for determining your overall health, with your cooperation.

Since you're not walking runways or a working fashion model (as far as I or anyone else knows) the 'arbitrary' BMI you're referencing doesn't apply to you.

The numbers applied for being 'underweight' are a result of numerous scientific studies testing the implications of being underweight on the female frame.

Each person is an individual, there is no question of that, however, in this particular instance the bar had to be set somewhere, and the low end of the average is pretty much the standard that has to be applied, given the circumstances.

 

[Raerae]

Thats the thing though. Your, "scientists" can't even decide what is the correct minimum BMI. Half the sites with say 18, the other half will say 18.5. Some will even make it higher. I've seen 19.5. Not to mention that you can't even get an agreement on how to calculate a BMI, and different websites will provide different results. So who's right?

Again, this doesn't change anything. I could probably raise my BMI to 18 by drinking a lot of water before I stepped on the scale. So am I suddenly healthy with a liter of water in my tummy?

It's a bad choice for a guideline because it's going to discriminate against healthy women who are under 18 naturally. And thats not fair.

 

[Shimmer]

Where are these so-called "healthy women" you keep referencing who are affected by the standard?

 

[GalleyGirl]

Your average model is a teenager, and I'm sure everyone who is not a teenager anymore knows that there is a huge difference between your metabolism then and what it gets to be once you get into your mid 20's and beyond. I've known enough people in my life (lucky me) who have been those genetic wonders who can eat normally and maintain a willowy frame. A lot of it of course and be accredited to their height. One was a 5'11'' girl from Eastern Europe (of course), and she used to joke that when her little sister, who was like 14 and 5'9'', put her school backpack on, she'd almost tip over from the weight. She was just a growing, gangly teenager, which is what most models are. Yes there are some with eating disorders and such, there will be in any profession, particularly in one that is anchored in a person's looks. But using BMI as a measurement won't distinguish them from the naturally tall, gangly teenage and early 20-something girls.

 

[GalleyGirl]

Also, show us a period in time when a ceratin body type wasn't in favor. Chances are, you won't find one. For our generation the ideal happens to be thin and lithe. Fifty years ago, we'd have been looking up to the more voluptuous pinups. A hundred years or so ago we'd be corseting ourselves up in hourglass form. In each case, there would be those for whom the idealized body shape would come naturally, and for others not so much. However, punishing the people who happen to represent the "ideal" at this point and time in our history isn't going to stop humanity in general from aspiring to look like something they're not.

 

[Shimmer]

Y'all seriously are not going to tell me that those models are a) lithe and b) the owners of substantially higher metabolisms than the rest of the world.
Even women with high metabolisms have MUSCLE MASS. Even women with high metabolisms have MUSCLE TONE. To indicate or imply that they don't is ridiculous.

I certainly do agree that certain body types have been in favor over the years however the current favored body type of "hungry" is not healthy for ANYONE.

Nicole Richie doesn't have a high metabolism. Neither does Lindsay Lohan. I think we all know how Kate Moss maintains her figure. Teri Hatcher, Gemma Ward, et al are NOT "naturally bony" women. Thin? Of course. ABSOLUTELY.

But there's a difference between being "thin" and being fucking emaciated.

 

[Shimmer]

And, I would like to add, these women aren't being 'punished'. If they met the standard, they'd get the job, there's not much question of that.

 

[sexypuma]

Totally agree with both your posts.

 

[lara]

I usually avoid these posts because there's always an element of 'but I'm natrually thin/fat/short/tall, don't hate me because I'm natrually thin/fat/short/tall, you just wish you were natrually thin/fat/short/tall' which completely derails the conversation.

Based on my own personal experience of working in fashion, maybe 1 in 20 runway models are natrually slim and about 1 in ten photographic models are natrually slim. Everyone else is artifically thin, and I do emphasis a difference between thin and slim. There's a great difference in proportions between the two, not to mention skin tone, hair lustre, whiteness of teeth, healthy appearance, etc etc etc. Natrually slim girls have muscle tone as well, the artifically slim girls are nothing but fat over bone.

Going by BMI is perhaps too arbitary, but drawing a distinction between natrually slim and artifically thin would be a good start, and in turn bring an element of healthiness back to fashion. There's nothing sadder than talking to a 15 year old girl who crash-dieted to lose an extra five kilos for Milan when she's already only 45 kilos and hasn't had a period in two years.

 

[quandolak]

Im wondering why some people say BMI *discriminates* against them considering it gets its results whatever shape/height you are ...hmmmm....

 

[Beauty Mark]

I know from my personal experience, when my BMI was under 18, I looked gaunt and sickly (not ED exactly, stress-related weight loss.) I don't think the BMI is the end all, be all of healthy judgements. I don't know how it works at the thin end of the scale, but I know you can be considered overweight on it because of muscle mass.

However, I think it's a good thing to look at. I wish they'd do the same with the film industry, because I think they're more of an influence over our perceived notions of beauty than models are.

 

[MisStarrlight]

So they may not be using the ban **quite** right, but it's new and all the kinks will be worked out.
Anyone that works in the industry will tell you, MOST MODELS ARE NOT HEALTHY!!
This was the first season that I was in the industry enough to realize exactly what goes on at fashion week. The agencies are telling the girls to just drink water...and if they're hungry, they're allowed to have a leaf of lettuce-as long as that's not more than once a day (but ideally it would only be once or twice a week). Several are so strung out-not only from the complete lack of nutrition, but also from the additional drugs they do to loose those 3 extra pounds.
No one at the Fashion Weeks care about health. The models' teeth are rotting, their hair is falling out & their skin is completely shot to hell...but it's ok, cause the MAKEUP ARTIST will make it all better...WRONG! There is only so much we can do, but we can't fix Heroin lip, or flaking, nasty skin, visine only goes so far for the red eyes, etc.
It's good to see that someone with influence has taken notice and is working to change it!



And Raerae, by calling your co-workers "fatasses", you are absolutely NO better than them...doing exactly what you are accusing them of doing and jumping to conclusions about their weight/health. It's like them calling you anorexic. You say you have self-image issues? Try to be a little more empathetic then.

 

[Raerae]

double

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisStarrlight And Raerae, by calling your co-workers "fatasses", you are absolutely NO better than them...doing exactly what you are accusing them of doing and jumping to conclusions about their weight/health. It's like them calling you anorexic. You say you have self-image issues? Try to be a little more empathetic then.

<shrug>

Difference is, I dont do it directly to their face.

When we go out to lunch, and they scarf down a plate of FRIED Zuccini and Onion Rings, in addition to a loaf of bread smothered in butter, on top of the lunch meal: a steak smothered in mushroom gravy, not to mention the side dishes, AND order desert, and clear EVERYTHING, I think I can call them a fatass. Yes this is a typical lunch meal for these women. However, call the PC police if I were to mention anything about, their eating habits, or weight. Everyone would be so shocked and offended that someone pointed out the obvious.

This isn't something about a overweight individual attempting to address their weight problems by eating healthy and exercising, etc. Not to mention, if someone is overweight, and is trying to control their weight and slim down, they get all sorts of praise about the fact their trying to lose weight. If I were to say someone I'm trying to gain weight by eating more, all I would get is sarcastic replies about it being "about time", or more comments about how I'll prolly just throw it up.

It's a double standard. It's perfectly ok to rail on skinny people in extremely mean ways, in public. But haw DARE you mention anything about someone being fat. Your post above proves that. No one tells people to mind what they say when someone makes mean references to someone being thin. And if you get upselt about it there always, "Oh I was only kidding! Your so lucky your so thin! I wish I was thin like you! blah blah blah"

Or how about in conversations about clothing. Something not even related to eating. Mention the fact that it's difficult to find clothing that fits peoperly being on the 0 end of the size range, and you get assaulted by a chorus of, "Oh you poor baby! It must be SO TERRIBLE to be thin. I'm SO sorry for you that you can't find size 0 clothing that fits!" Do you have any idea how much issues it would cause if I were to do the same thing but it was about a large individual?

----------------------------

Hey Shimmer, if your SO conscerned about the problems to people's bodies because of their weight, why dont we start enforcing BMI rules for all jobs. If your under 18 BMI, or over 25 BMI your not allowed to work. Since there are PLENTY of scientific studies that being overweight has serious health effects on your body. Probably more than the problem associated with being thin.[/quote]

 

[Beauty Mark]

Quote:

If I were to say someone I'm trying to gain weight by eating more, all I would get is sarcastic replies about it being "about time", or more comments about how I'll prolly just throw it up.

I used to receive the "Oh, I wish I had that problem!" when I was pretty underweight. I wanted to slap people for it, because it was a real problem and they treated it like it was nothing. I also have a fast metabolism, so even when I began eating regularly again, the weight wasn't being put on until I drank a lot of protein shakes.

I still see overweight people being insulted, but it's done in a much more subtle way normally. With being underweight, I think you can be insulting as you like about it and not have to hide it.

 

[GalleyGirl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae <shrug> When we go out to lunch, and they scarf down a plate of FRIED Zuccini and Onion Rings, in addition to a loaf of bread smothered in butter, on top of the lunch meal: a steak smothered in mushroom gravy, not to mention the side dishes, AND order desert, and clear EVERYTHING, I think I can call them a fatass. Yes this is a typical lunch meal for these women. However, call the PC police if I were to mention anything about, their eating habits, or weight. Everyone would be so shocked and offended that someone pointed out the obvious.

Seriously. Because everyone in American is in denial as to why they have a weight problem ("It's my thyroid!") it's become taboo to address the real problem in any way for fear of offending people. I lived in Japan for a year and it was such an eye-opening experience in terms of how skewed American (Western in general, but particularly American) diet and lifestyle is. Food was served on dinner plates, not the serving platters that pass for dinner plates in the US. In order to get to work or school, you had to walk, bike or stand for long amounts of time on the subway, thereby ensuring that you got a workout without actually having to workout.
Anyway, I digress from the original topic. To answer an earlier question, no, I do not by any means think that people like Lindsay Lohan or Kate Bosworth are naturally that thin and I realize that there are plenty of people suffereing from eating disorders, whether its anorexia, bulemia, or compulsive overating. I just think that measures such as the one taken in Madrid don't necessarily help to solve problems concerning bodily acceptance and bad eating habits (which includes both under and over eating).

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark I still see overweight people being insulted, but it's done in a much more subtle way normally. With being underweight, I think you can be insulting as you like about it and not have to hide it.

And while I do agree overweight individuals still dont get treated perfectly, your correct in that it's done much less obviously. Whether is be done with poorer service at a store, or other more subtle coments since you have to tip-toe around the issues.

The fact that you can be blatently insulting to thin people is why issues like these ruffle my feathers.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Hey Shimmer, if your SO conscerned about the problems to people's bodies because of their weight, why dont we start enforcing BMI rules for all jobs. If your under 18 BMI, or over 25 BMI your not allowed to work. Since there are PLENTY of scientific studies that being overweight has serious health effects on your body. Probably more than the problem associated with being thin.

Hey RaeRae, if a person has a job where they're supposed to represent the "societal ideal" of physical beauty, then yes, it's reasonable to have standards regarding such issues.

I still await examples of the so-called healthy women who are being discriminated against.

You're taking something personally that doesn't affect you and it's affecting your argument.

 

[Uchina]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae This isn't something about a overweight individual attempting to address their weight problems by eating healthy and exercising, etc. Not to mention, if someone is overweight, and is trying to control their weight and slim down, they get all sorts of praise about the fact their trying to lose weight. If I were to say someone I'm trying to gain weight by eating more, all I would get is sarcastic replies about it being "about time", or more comments about how I'll prolly just throw it up.

God that's horrible! What if you actually DID have an ED? What bitches.