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Originally Posted by panda0410
You and I are looking at this from two completely different points of view.
The seller has the responsibility to be accountable for their actions!! If a buyer goes to a seller then that seller should also uphold their obligations! It shouldnt matter that the seller is reselling - and you dont need to go to estee lauder direct to buy cosmectics either, plenty of commercial businesses are simply resellers of items (ANY items) that they can get wholesale regardless of brand/company etc - the fact of the matter is that sellers have a job to make sure items are authentic and should know what they are doing before flogging it off. While I concede that purchasers should have some knowledge of items they intend to buy, we are talking cosmetics, it shouldnt require 3 hours of pre-education to know what you want - and plenty of
first timers who walk into a mac store have as much or as LITTLE knowledge as a first time ebayer. And before you argue that MAs are there to help many of them go out of their way NOT to help, I have seen plenty of MAs at various cosmtics counters/stores ignore their customers completely because they didnt fit "the look" or for whatever other reason and that person then leaves the store the worse off for having that experience.
You say that you dont have sympathy for those being stolen from so I sincerely hope that no-one ever steals from you, but I do. No-one sets out to be stolen from, and I find it difficult to use your reasoning that these people are partly responsible for themselves being stolen from.... No-one deserves to be ripped off regardless of where they make their purchase. These sellers set out to steal from the sale of fake items - thats INTENT - so no matter which way you look at it its theft.
Now I am pretty sure that we arent going to agree on the topic, we have different but both valid standpoints so I am going to leave it at that
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i do agree with most of what you are saying. its the sellers responsibilty to make sure that what they are selling is real. no doubt about it. unfortunately, there are people out there that purposefully sell fake stuff on ebay (and elsewhere), and people buy it, thinking that its real. and i do consider that fraud and theft. and i do believe that no one deserves to be stolen from. i specifically said that no one deserves that. what i'm saying is that if you want to make sure that what you get is real, then buy it directly from the company. everyone knows that there are real things sold on ebay, and there are fakes sold on ebay. since you know that fakes are sold on ebay, why take the chance of buying something you think is real, when you can't be 100% sure? many people come to specktra stating that they've seen ebay auctions with plenty of positive feedback, yet they want others optinions as to whether its the real deal. obviously, they aren't sure. so why even consider it? why take that chance?
in this situation, you can't put all the blame on the seller of fakes. tho they do deserve the majority of it, the buyer needs to take some responsibilty as well. you can't go around in life thinking that everyone else is at fault for things that happen, and that you are blame free in everything. again, i do agree with most of what you're saying, and we can agree to disagree on the rest.
i'm glad to offer help to anyone that i can when it comes to questions reguarding mac, or anthing else that i have knowledge about. and i hope that people will appreciate the help, as i appreciate others help towards me. that's why i come here and post the things that i do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amber_j
erine1881 - I know you said you weren't directing your comment at me, but I feel I need to respond.
I bought from eBay because I wanted a bargain. There's nothing wrong with that. I know there are risks to buying online - I've been doing this for about 5 years now. But I researched the sellers as best I could, asked questions, requested more photos etc. I'm familiar enough with MAC e/s that I felt I'd managed to eliminate the dodgy sellers from my shortlist. There was one e/s I was foolish enough to buy as I didn't look at the photo closely enough and I think I'm lucky to have gotten a refund for that. The rest of the fakes are from sellers who I believe genuinely didn't realise their items were counterfeit. Almost all have given me a refund now. I just have 3 more to contact.
Unfortunatley this kind of thing happens, on eBay and IRL. I've learnt my lesson with regards to buying MAC on eBay, and if I can't get something from one particular seller I'll just go to the MAC store and buy it there. But I totally agree with panda - people have the right to buy stuff online if they so wish, and they have every right to expect that they will be sold genuine goods.
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i'm glad that you were able to get a refund on the majority of the fakes that you bought. and i hope that you get a refund on the rest of your stuff. the statement that i bolded in your quote is my whole point. that you realize what you did, and that you took some of the responsibility. and in order to avoid getting fakes from other sellers when your go-to seller doesn't have an item, you go directly to mac to get it. and that's the only way to know for sure that you get the real thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by look_divine
the point of selling is if unhappy with purchase you return as a seller on ebay myself I AM 100% positive if someone emailed me stating a product i sold them was fake, id ask them to return and refund promptly and id REMOVE all items from specific supplier no ifs or buts about it
You cannot derive buyers for wanting a bargain, we all hit the sales dont we?
I have sold cosmetics on and off for 5yrs on ebay, and im still unsure how to tell a fake from a real one!!!
I think its saddening to say a forum member would be so cold as to state its your own fault for buying but id help
I dont think id ever ask for your help!!!
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first off, i never said it was your own fault. so don't say that i did. i said don't complain about getting something fake when you have no way of making sure if the item is real or not. you can't physically see the item that you're buying. and since many sellers use stock photos, you don't even know if you're buying the item in the picture.
second, if this type of thing happens to you, its unfortunate, but you need to take some of the responsibility. just like amber_j said, she was foolish for not doing what she usually does, and got fakes as a result. she also said she learned her lesson. she is taking part of the blame, and does things differently to ensure she gets real mac.
and if you don't want my help, fine. i'll make sure not to offer any help if you need it, since you don't want it. if others do need help, i'll be glad to do what i can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfsong
Also take into account that many people DONT KNOW MAC can be/has been faked - as with other brands.
Plus the fact that many of these sellers write '100% authentic guaranteed' (or something similar) on auctions and insist that they have bought direct from MAC if questioned.
Dont assume that people are ignorant or careless for buying a fake on ebay - they are usually just a little naive and trusting (and lets face it, they should be able to trust the sellers - no ifs or buts).
Ebay stores dont differ to any other company/online website - they are a business and need to follow most if not all the legulations that other businesses have to. This includes not conning the customer by selling counterfeit goods. Ebay auctions are LEGAL CONTRACTS, which means that the buyer should feel safe about the transaction, and about the product they are purchasing (due to there being rules and regulations). Ebay also makes such bold claims about them preventing counterfeit sales/stopping them when they happen that you cant blame the buyer from feeling safe to purchase.
Buying from a source other than the company doesnt mean someone should expect or deserve to be conned - blaming the victim is awful IMO (a very extreme version: blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt at night, ie 'they should have expected it').
The only people that i think should be blamed are these 'wholesalers', the clued up counterfeit sellers and anyone who allows/helps these crimes to continue.
You have a right to say what you think - and i respect your right to voice your opinion, but i personally am unsure why someone who thinks its the buyers fault would bother to try helping them (sounds a bit patronising to me).
Though i do agree that ideally the buyer should have some understanding of what they are buying - like those that buy the really bad fakes (a google search or a look at the MAC site will usually tell them that they are fakes, if not by just looking at the packaging differences). But still, they should not be conned just because they didnt know better.
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i don't think the buyer is ignorant or careless, and never said so. everyone knows that there are some things on ebay that are fake. there's no one out there that doesn't know this. so, you should never feel 100% safe that you are buying a genuine product when you know that fakes do squeeze thru ebay's preventative steps. you're right, just because you buy from someone other than the company themselves doesn't mean you deserve to be conned. correct me if i'm wrong, but ebay doesn't guarantee that you will get the real thing. they say that they try to prevent fake items from being sold, but there's no guarantee. so people need to realize this when they buy.
btw, the "rape scenario", completely different! no one deserves to be raped, ever! whether you're young or old, covered up or dressed sexy, or a businesswoman or prostitute. NO ONE! there's my feeling on that.
i'm not patronizing anyone. i'm not saying "hahaha, you bought fake mac, and i'm gonna tell you so". if someone bought something fake, they deserve the right to know. they shouldn't have to use the product thinking that its real when its not. and if anyone, myself or you, knows for sure that its fake, they should let the person know. this is what we all do in the counterfeit forum.
