Tom Cruise on Scientology (video)

[wolfsong]

Valid points - i didnt think too much about the fact she was a mother before i read what you wrote Beauty Mark. That child will (if Katie doesnt see sense and put herself and child first) grow up in that cult, and that will be the 'religion' she will know. Its like children that grow up in very strong Christian families - yes some do turn their backs on religion when they have the choice, but many have it running deep inside them. Even with those that rebel - the teachings etc will be there, you cant easily forget what you have absorbed as a child. Cults enforced on children should be seen as abuse, and treated as such. Im all for showing children what faith is about etc, but ultimately they should not be taught that their religion/beliefs are the 'true' ones and all others are false/inferior. Religion is just different vessels as to how you have, channel and hold on to faith.


Please be aware this is fox news and therefore may contain 90% bull (however it sounds like they did their homework):

FOXNews.com - Katie Holmes' Missing Days - Celebrity Gossip | Entertainment News | Arts And Entertainment

 

[SparklingWaves]

I feel this Scientology has a very powerful base of money and is not to be taken lightly. It is discreetly disguised in many organizations like: Applied Scholastics, World Literacy Crusade, Say No To Drugs Run, Youth for Human Rights International, Foundation for Religious Freedom, Mary's School House, Narconon, Hollywood Writers Society, Artists for A Better World, Troups 8 (Boy Scouts), Laugh Works (Comedy group), Association for Better Living & Education, Criminon, & Sterling Management to name a few.

I watched a complete video by the BBC called Scientology and Me. A reporter, John Sweeney, was trying to do a report on Scientology. During the entire time he was trying to to this, he was stalked, interrogated, criticized, harassed, & filmed by Scientologist. Lastly, he was put in to this room where he was shown the tortures done to humans. Then, he was screamed & criticized at again. John Sweeney lost his composure and of course the Scientologist were filming it. Some in the UK were even against John Sweeney for losing his temper. Let me tell you from experience, I could tell this poor reporter had no clue what these people were doing to him in the process of just trying to get a report on them.

I noticed immediately there were reports in some (unnamed) US papers just showing a picture of John Sweeney yelling and a total lie of what actually happened. I was furious. It was so pro-scientology. The complete story was never told of what the BBC was trying to do and what was being done to this reporter to get him to snap.

Just this scenario told me of how much power Scientology actually has within the United States.

Shortly after that, the Scientologist came out with their own cut and paste video of John Sweeney with their experts to defame whatever information he was collecting on him during his reporting.

I urge people to research the organizations and even the companies that they wish to join or to apply, because they may be associated with Scientology. This is huge. I have viewed reports and video that it has taken over Clearwater Florida.

There once was an organization online called Cult Awareness Network. It is now run by Scientology.

I don't know if this was done already or not. I know there was a movement to get Scientology duped as a religion in the UK too.

One of the many goals of Scientology is to have this in every part of the world and in every school.

 

[SparklingWaves]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark The thing with Hubbard is he started this cult and got in over his head; he went crazy. Scientology scares the hell out of me, especially since it's becoming more and more visible and likely popular. I know society does tend to psychiatrically overmedicate and possibly overuse therapy, but Scientology rejects all of that, even if you desperately need it. Schizophrenics have been convinced to go off their medication and end up killing someone; Scientologists convinced them to not take the medicine. I know people have choices, but it's a cult. I wish that shit would get shut down. Katie Holmes looks rough. I know she's a new mother, but she has lots of money and access to things many other new mothers don't. Most new mothers don't look like they aged 10 years in a few years. I go between pitying her and being annoyed with her. She's no newcomer to Hollywood, has a great family who she could go see if things got rough. It's not like a traditional getting sucked into a cult story. I almost think she chose to do this for fame and then found herself way more deep into than she expected. The part that annoys and disgusts me is she brought an innocent child into it.

It's a huge powerful organization, ie. cult too. I like the words you chose. They actually shut down anyone that even attempts to get out or challenge them.

I too am very frightened of them. I have seen what a spin off does. It isn't pretty. The people are FOREVER changed.

While they are tearing your core down, they are rebuilding you with their belief system. You become their new creature. Everyone outside that system is the enemy in their minds. You can not associate with anyone outside the domain of the belief system or you will be contaminated.

I don't think people are making a clear and conscious choice with the auditor using command hypnosis techniques on them. Ugh!

Yes, people can put you in a state of hypnosis without you actually knowing it. Scary stuff.

I too think Katie has aged quickly. Mentally, she is acting way older than I. She is acting like a robot. She reminds me of the words in that old Pink Floyd song that says, "Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me. Is there anyone at home?" Spooky stuff. She has been auditing - "to clear".

 

[athena123]

Thank you sparklingwaves for bringing this to our attention. I know I said it before, but the cult of scientology is DANGEROUS! And yes, Hubbard is their god. Can you imagine worshipping at the alter of a freakin' science fiction writer? Geez, if an author is god, why not someone of more talent like Isaac Asimov or Robert Heinlein?

I'm not surprised, however, that this cult is in it for the money and run like a business. Walk into the office of ANY organized religion and you'll see how businesslike they all really are. Hubbard is the only one who's open about turning his cult into a profit center. The others hide their profit-making motives behind the guise of their religion as well. When you think about it, Mormons tithe 10% of their income, catholics are expected to pay for their indulgences and mass, televangelists beg their viewers for $$ and spend it on cars, boats and mansions. All of these religious organizations possess vast holdings of cash, real estate and wealth built on the backs of their congregations.

 

[FullWroth]

You know, if Scientology were this bizarre but it was intended as an actual religion that the creator actually believed in, I'd probably wanna cut them some slack. After all, Jehovah's Witnesses are frequently borderline-dangerous weirdos too, but we let them be because they're a branch of Christianity, so if Scientology were really a religion, it wouldn't be fair to deny them the same head-shaking-but-permissive treatment.

BUT... this is a "religion" written as a joke on a bet between two scifi authors. The bet was to see which one of them could actually start a religion based on their fictional writing. It was never about beliefs or helping people - it was just a bet between two bored authors, and that's a matter of public knowledge, and because it IS a matter of public knowledge, I have to question the sanity level of anyone who STILL joins the cult regardless.

 

[athena123]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfsong Valid points - i didnt think too much about the fact she was a mother before i read what you wrote Beauty Mark. That child will (if Katie doesnt see sense and put herself and child first) grow up in that cult, and that will be the 'religion' she will know. Its like children that grow up in very strong Christian families - yes some do turn their backs on religion when they have the choice, but many have it running deep inside them. Even with those that rebel - the teachings etc will be there, you cant easily forget what you have absorbed as a child. Cults enforced on children should be seen as abuse, and treated as such. Im all for showing children what faith is about etc, but ultimately they should not be taught that their religion/beliefs are the 'true' ones and all others are false/inferior. Religion is just different vessels as to how you have, channel and hold on to faith. Please be aware this is fox news and therefore may contain 90% bull (however it sounds like they did their homework): FOXNews.com - Katie Holmes' Missing Days - Celebrity Gossip | Entertainment News | Arts And Entertainment

Very well said wolfsong - I agree with most of what you say with the exception of Fox News. I actually find them more reliable than the likes of ABC, NBC or CBS. That article was very interesting either way. I didn't know this and the fact that she cut herself off from close friends and associates is a further indication of how cults use isolation as a tactic to get their clutches in.

 

[athena123]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FullWroth You know, if Scientology were this bizarre but it was intended as an actual religion that the creator actually believed in, I'd probably wanna cut them some slack. After all, Jehovah's Witnesses are frequently borderline-dangerous weirdos too, but we let them be because they're a branch of Christianity, so if Scientology were really a religion, it wouldn't be fair to deny them the same head-shaking-but-permissive treatment. BUT... this is a "religion" written as a joke on a bet between two scifi authors. The bet was to see which one of them could actually start a religion based on their fictional writing. It was never about beliefs or helping people - it was just a bet between two bored authors, and that's a matter of public knowledge, and because it IS a matter of public knowledge, I have to question the sanity level of anyone who STILL joins the cult regardless.

fullwroth, who was the other author? Wow, if this cult was started off as a bet, makes it even more difficult to believe how many people have gotten sucked into scientology!

Although, the story of how the mormon church began also begs disbelief - mormons really do believe that their founder, Joseph Smith dug up some golden plates somewhere in Pennsylvania or wherever that were written by the angel moroni.

 

[kimmy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flowerhead what makes him think he's so enlightened?

i think he's got the napolean complex. either that or he looked in a mirror and finally realized he isn't much to look at and decided it was time for a new gimmick.

 

[Enkuli]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimmy i think he's got the napolean complex. either that or he looked in a mirror and finally realized he isn't much to look at and decided it was time for a new gimmick.

Oh, I was just about to say the same thing. That man has some serious Napoleon issues and hope he would just shut up.

I think Cruise is " I'm callin home to ET" kinda person and as much as I keep hoping ET people would already come to take him home, I also think this world would be a little bit more boring without Tom Cruise.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Quote:

Originally Posted by COBI But her "great family" doesn't live anywhere near LA (in Ohio, I believe.) Family far away (geographically) and add in the fantasy factor that is/was Tom Cruise (for her), and I think she is not far from the traditional vulnerable person at all.

She's always been portrayed as being very close to her family and childhood friends (by herself and others), and unlike a lot of people, she had, even before TC, the option of flying home or flying a family member to her. She wasn't hurting for money. I don't see her being particularly more vulnerable than the average person. Her acting career was not at its peak, but she was still getting roles and doing decently.

I could see her being vulnerable when she initially started on Dawson's Creek, as she wasn't affluent, had a huge life change, and wasn't probably aware of what Scientology is. Considering its presence in Hollywood, I can't believe she didn't get some kind of warning about it before meeting TC.

As to what attracts TC to Scientology? He's allegedly the highest ranked member. He is that arrogant, because the "church" feeds his ego. From what I understand, they treat their celebrity members much differently than their regular members. I imagine that TC was somewhat arrogant to begin with and the church just up his beliefs about himself.

What's disturbing about Scientology as much as I'd like to believe that the general public is enlightened on its cult behavior, they are not, which is why I heavily participate in discussions about Scientology. They also rope people in very stealthily. For instance, I went to a 4th of July thing in Boston. The Scientologists were handing out paper fliers about like a personality test. In very small print at the bottom, it wrote something about the church of Scientology. If you didn't look at it, you'd not know what you were going to.

 

[FullWroth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by athena123 fullwroth, who was the other author? Wow, if this cult was started off as a bet, makes it even more difficult to believe how many people have gotten sucked into scientology!

I think it was either Arthur C. Clarke or Robert Heinlein, but I don't remember 100% clearly anymore, so I had to double-check. Wikipedia of course is completely whitewashed, and most of the websites that used to be FULL of these facts are gone too now (grrrr). The way I remember hearing it is that Hubbard and one or more other scifi author(s) was/were hanging out somewhere and two of them vowed to write books about fake religions, and whoever got the most suckers to buy into their crap would win.

So I can't find any clear-cut stories about that, friggin' evil Scientology empire of the Third Reich, but I did some digging and found...

BBC - h2g2 - Scientology

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]There are also reports that Hubbard was involved with 'The Beast' Aleister Crowley, and that the major impetus for Scientology was a bet between Hubbard and a fellow sci-fi writer that Hubbard couldn't found a new religion. These last accounts are, understandably, hotly disputed by the Church.[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Tellingly, Gerry Armstrong, a Scientologist tasked with writing an authorised biography of Hubbard in the 1980s, found such a discrepancy between the Church's version of events and the documentary evidence that he left the Church.[/FONT]


[FONT=Trebuchet MS, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]There's also this site: Scientology[/FONT]


[FONT=Trebuchet MS, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Which says they can't really find anything to confirm or deny it. However, the most telling fact, for me at least, is that the only defense the Scientologists have put up is either "But it's just not LIKE him to do something like that!" and then "But then why would he spent 40 years of his life WORKING on it?!" Well gee... the point of a bet IS to do something you wouldn't normally do, and if something were making ME millions, I'd keep it up too.[/FONT]


[FONT=Trebuchet MS, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]There's also this site: non-scientologist faq on "Start a Religion"[/FONT]


[FONT=Trebuchet MS, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Which, although it can't find any evidence for that specific story, CAN apparently find evidence to suggest that Hubbard DID say "The way to make a million dollars is to start a religion."[/FONT]


[FONT=Trebuchet MS, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Either way, it's a shady beginning, and the whole Xenu/Thetan thing doesn't help. I also saw a few more websites that suggested he did it just to evade having to pay taxes, and some more that suggested L. Ron wrote it as a joke and then pretty much let it be, and it was OTHER crazyass people who actually opened it up as a functioning organized religion. I dunno which of these are legit and trustworthy (I mean, I lean towards believing the BBC website, but the others, I dunno), but you can always to google searches for "scientology bet" or some combination of appropriate key words and see what you can dig up for yourself.

[/FONT]


[FONT=Trebuchet MS, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]As to the Mormons... from what little I know, the modern church seems to be trying to distance itself from some of Joseph Smith's creepier teachings, and officially, they no longer support polygamy or believe some of the more implausible stuff, it's just getting all those people in Utah to AGREE to change that's an issue, especially all those creepy pervs marrying their 15 year old nieces, and the powerless women who don't know any other way of life and feel like if they were left to fend for themselves, they'd just wither away and die. So, if that's actually true, and the Mormon church is actually trying to become a levelheaded religion out to truly help people in need... well, kudos to them.
[/FONT]

 

[SparklingWaves]

A lot of the websites that reveal the insides of this organization are usually taken down or taken over by the Scientologist. So, one day you may see a website giving blow by blow accounts of the organization and then puff it's gone.

I am surprised that Youtube still has the 60 minutes episode, xenutv, and a few others on there, because Scientologist seem to have a way of getting rid of anything that tries to expose the truth about the organization.

I too found a useful site two days ago, but I can't seen to find it now. I am not surprised.

 

[wolfsong]

That’s the thing - it’s easy to assume that this (or any) cult isn’t prevalent in society, and that all this talk of them controlling the media and businesses is just paranoia and propaganda. However, there seems to be more evidence suggesting these shady dealing then not. And this is how cults operate - they keep the majority of their 'organisation' hidden like an iceberg, showing only enough to gain members and make a name for themselves (with all attempts at this being in a positive, sugar coated light - finance, power, notoriety).


If they can rope in what was once one of the highest ranking actors around (along with all those other celebrities), then I don’t dispute for a moment that they can’t have control over other areas as well.

 

[SparklingWaves]

Tom Cruise Scientology-Video Glossary - News Story | Music, Celebrity, Artist News | MTV News

MTV attempts to explain what Tom Cruise talking about in that video.

They talk about why he stares and what that means. I was picking up on his wife doing that stare to David Letterman and other recent interviews.

Personally, I think this article is just skimming the surface. (Uh, I guess that is their point).

 

[COBI]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark She's always been portrayed as being very close to her family and childhood friends (by herself and others), and unlike a lot of people, she had, even before TC, the option of flying home or flying a family member to her. She wasn't hurting for money. I don't see her being particularly more vulnerable than the average person. Her acting career was not at its peak, but she was still getting roles and doing decently.

I guess part of my point is that we don't ever know what someone else's psyche is like. Even with physical closeness and seemingly emotional closeness, someone can be emotionally vulnerable and feel alone.

Also, I see articles that point out that she never listed TC as an earlier-in-life "idol" until after they started dating. But if you were single and a MAJOR star, who you may have had super crush on as a teen, wants to be with you (and is jumping on couches "in love" within 6 weeks), it is very likely to cloud your judgement whether you are vulnerable or not.

 

[Beauty Mark]

One of the biggest differences between Scientology and Mormonism (FWIW) is that, to my knowledge, you have access to the scriptures at all times; I'm not Mormon but I can read all about their core beliefs right now. Scientology has you work towards increasing your knowledge; you essentially pay for it or work within the church for your e-meter readings. Lower ranking and non-Scientologists are not supposed to know about a lot of it. I may not agree with a lot of organized religions, but they at least will let me know ahead of time what I'm getting into and what their beliefs are.

The whole hiding knowledge thing is shady. I believe it's because by the time you discover that we are allegedly evolved from clams and other craziness, you are so irrational and entangled in the church you'll believe anything.

 

[shadowaddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark One of the biggest differences between Scientology and Mormonism (FWIW) is that, to my knowledge, you have access to the scriptures at all times; I'm not Mormon but I can read all about their core beliefs right now.

The thing about mormonism is that there have been over 3,900 changes to the Book of Mormon over the years and that most of the members do not know what the true doctrine is. The prophet/president of the church at the present time can change everything basically. His words are considered scripture. If you research each president they have contradicted each other over and over. There are several documents that are locked in a vault that they do not want the public to see. It's a lot to get into here but there are some great books out there with proven documentation that most people would be shocked to know. But most of the general members are good family people with high morals. When you read about what really goes on in the temple ceremonies it's pretty weird and scary. A member can't even enter unless deamed worthy and you are not worthy if you are not tithing at least 10% of your gross income. If you look back to when Joseph Smith ran for president and through the Brigham Young years they clearly state they want to take over America and then all of the world basically. Joseph Smith more or less copied the Masonic beliefs. He did not even have a revelation about the temple ceremonies until after he became a member of the Masons and saw their rituals. When you look back at it and compare them he basically changed names of places, the angel, and other things and created a religion. Over the years when different things such as symbols that were on the church and even statues in Salt Lake City in Temple Square was brought out to the public these items were promtly removed and never seen again.

They believe that any man can become a god of his own world/planet and his wife a goddess (a woman can still not enter the highest level of heaven unless she is married and her husband pulls her through the "veil") and that before we were born we were spirit children waiting for a body to come to earth. That is why especially in the split off fundamentalist groups a woman is suppose to have a baby once a year and as many as she can to give bodies to those spirit children. We are supposedly the spirit children of God and one of his wives and that God was once a man and He and Mary had physical sexual intercourse and that Jesus and Satan are brothers. They have really been trying to push the idea of them being christians now days to be accepted but they do not consider themselves to be. They call Christians and Jews "Gentiles" which is odd. They believe they are God's true chosen ones. They also believe that black people are the descendants of Cain and that they have been punished with darker skin. And until 1978 a black man could not hold the priesthood (which boys become in their teens) and then of course the president had a revelation that they then could just as Brigham Young's revelation to end plural marriage just happened to be at the time when unless they denounced it Utah could not become a state.

I am 45 now but when I was 16 I dated a mormon and dated him for three years. I got sucked right in and was even baptized in the Mormon church. I was raised Southern Baptist. But this was the regular LDS church not one of the fundamentalist groups. I quit when I broke up with him but got interested a few years ago and have been doing research out of curiosity. It is such a marketing system and you would not believe all the church owns. They have stock in so many companies and own a great deal of others. The high profile members such as the Osmonds tithe upwards of 25% of their income. If I am not mistaken they are the richest church in the world with holdings and land all over. They own a good part of Hawaii.

Sorry to get so long there but it really is interesting when you dig deep. The statement has been made that in several years Scientology will just as accepted as the Mormons are now. And they are pretty much told not to read what the church considers anti-mormon literature. Anyway from what I have learned I consider both Scientology and Mormonism to be just f**ked up cults. But don't get me wrong I don't consider all mormons that way. I believe most have been spoon-fed what the church wants them to know.

 

[glamdoll]

Katie was nothing before Tom. The only reason she is so like pubicized now its because she is Tom's wife. She had a mediocre career. The only really good movie she had done was batman, and she turned down doing the sequel.

There were rumors that said that Suri was not Toms, but Chris Kleins (is that his name?) baby.

Does anyone know why Nicole n Tom were unable to have children? I had heard one of them was sterile, but Nicole is pregnant now, and he had a child.. so I dunno.

anyway I think Suri Cruise is so darn beautiful!

 

[glamdoll]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowaddict The thing about mormonism is that there have been over 3,900 changes to the Book of Mormon over the years and that most of the members do not know what the true doctrine is. The prophet/president of the church at the present time can change everything basically. His words are considered scripture. If you research each president they have contradicted each other over and over. There are several documents that are locked in a vault that they do not want the public to see. It's a lot to get into here but there are some great books out there with proven documentation that most people would be shocked to know. But most of the general members are good family people with high morals. When you read about what really goes on in the temple ceremonies it's pretty weird and scary. A member can't even enter unless deamed worthy and you are not worthy if you are not tithing at least 10% of your gross income. If you look back to when Joseph Smith ran for president and through the Brigham Young years they clearly state they want to take over America and then all of the world basically. Joseph Smith more or less copied the Masonic beliefs. He did not even have a revelation about the temple ceremonies until after he became a member of the Masons and saw their rituals. When you look back at it and compare them he basically changed names of places, the angel, and other things and created a religion. Over the years when different things such as symbols that were on the church and even statues in Salt Lake City in Temple Square was brought out to the public these items were promtly removed and never seen again. They believe that any man can become a god of his own world/planet and his wife a goddess (a woman can still not enter the highest level of heaven unless she is married and her husband pulls her through the "veil") and that before we were born we were spirit children waiting for a body to come to earth. That is why especially in the split off fundamentalist groups a woman is suppose to have a baby once a year and as many as she can to give bodies to those spirit children. We are supposedly the spirit children of God and one of his wives and that God was once a man and He and Mary had physical sexual intercourse and that Jesus and Satan are brothers. They have really been trying to push the idea of them being christians now days to be accepted but they do not consider themselves to be. They call Christians and Jews "Gentiles" which is odd. They believe they are God's true chosen ones. They also believe that black people are the descendants of Cain and that they have been punished with darker skin. And until 1978 a black man could not hold the priesthood (which boys become in their teens) and then of course the president had a revelation that they then could just as Brigham Young's revelation to end plural marriage just happened to be at the time when unless they denounced it Utah could not become a state. I am 45 now but when I was 16 I dated a mormon and dated him for three years. I got sucked right in and was even baptized in the Mormon church. I was raised Southern Baptist. But this was the regular LDS church not one of the fundamentalist groups. I quit when I broke up with him but got interested a few years ago and have been doing research out of curiosity. It is such a marketing system and you would not believe all the church owns. They have stock in so many companies and own a great deal of others. The high profile members such as the Osmonds tithe upwards of 25% of their income. If I am not mistaken they are the richest church in the world with holdings and land all over. They own a good part of Hawaii. Sorry to get so long there but it really is interesting when you dig deep. The statement has been made that in several years Scientology will just as accepted as the Mormons are now. And they are pretty much told not to read what the church considers anti-mormon literature. Anyway from what I have learned I consider both Scientology and Mormonism to be just f**ked up cults. But don't get me wrong I don't consider all mormons that way. I believe most have been spoon-fed what the church wants them to know.

My husband is a mormon, not like a real practicing mormon, but I have gone to their mass. They have people 'testify' about the truth of the gospel and it seemed very interesting.

In Acapulco, where I grew up the nicest church is the mormon one. But in Mexico majority is Catholics.

I told him I couldn't ever 'convert' because I fail to see how we can have a modern day prophet, and that he can talk to God, and the whole tithing. Um no. God doesnt require you to pay your way to heaven. What happen to give whats cesars to cesar and what is Gods to God? well anyway.

I understand what you are saying, I tried, really tried to see reason w/ it. but I just dont see it.

 

[SparklingWaves]

Quote:

Originally Posted by glamdoll Katie was nothing before Tom. The only reason she is so like pubicized now its because she is Tom's wife. She had a mediocre career. The only really good movie she had done was batman, and she turned down doing the sequel. There were rumors that said that Suri was not Toms, but Chris Kleins (is that his name?) baby. Does anyone know why Nicole n Tom were unable to have children? I had heard one of them was sterile, but Nicole is pregnant now, and he had a child.. so I dunno. anyway I think Suri Cruise is so darn beautiful!

I read that Katie's Mad Money movie is a flop.

That baby is beautiful.