MxAxC-_ATTACK
Well-known member
I have a quick question as to why Vegans dont drink milk? Its not hurting the cow in any way to drink what it naturally produces .. right?
Vegan Diet
- Thread starter lovalotz
- Start date
Raerae
Well-known member
Well...
Depends on how you view being kept in a permanent state of lactating. Since it's not really natural, just a product of them getting milked every day. I know i wouldn't want to be making milk all my life heh.
Plus, you could also just be opposed to the general raising of livestock in general. Since what happens to those cows when they can't make milk anymore? Burgers/hotdogs? Mercedes leather seats?
Drinking Milk and eating Eggs (i hope your eating range free eggs) would make you a, lacto-ovo veggie, not a vegan.
Veganism is just opposing the use of animal products on the basis that it's not necessary, and often times cruel. Some just eliminate it from their diet, others eliminate it completely from their lives.
Depends on how you view being kept in a permanent state of lactating. Since it's not really natural, just a product of them getting milked every day. I know i wouldn't want to be making milk all my life heh.
Plus, you could also just be opposed to the general raising of livestock in general. Since what happens to those cows when they can't make milk anymore? Burgers/hotdogs? Mercedes leather seats?
Drinking Milk and eating Eggs (i hope your eating range free eggs) would make you a, lacto-ovo veggie, not a vegan.
Veganism is just opposing the use of animal products on the basis that it's not necessary, and often times cruel. Some just eliminate it from their diet, others eliminate it completely from their lives.
MxAxC-_ATTACK
Well-known member
Ah I understand.
Raerae
Well-known member
Oh also forgot another point about milk... Humans are the only species to drink another animals milk, and also, were the only ones who drink milk past infantcy. So how necessary is milk? Since we probably didn't drink it until cows were domesticated. There are plenty of other sources of calcium.
Wattage
Well-known member
Quote:
While I understand your point, milk is a very good source of nutrition for human beings. Albeit, I strongly encourage organic milk.
In our society, we have a lot of people who neglect their nutrition. Thus, things like milk, bread and salt are fortifed with essential vitamins and minerals that are hard to get otherwise. Vitamin D is one of them - which is found in milk.
Milk is necessary if you don't want to replace it with something else, such as soy milk that is properly fortified.
| Originally Posted by Raerae Oh also forgot another point about milk... Humans are the only species to drink another animals milk, and also, were the only ones who drink milk past infantcy. So how necessary is milk? Since we probably didn't drink it until cows were domesticated. There are plenty of other sources of calcium. |
While I understand your point, milk is a very good source of nutrition for human beings. Albeit, I strongly encourage organic milk.
In our society, we have a lot of people who neglect their nutrition. Thus, things like milk, bread and salt are fortifed with essential vitamins and minerals that are hard to get otherwise. Vitamin D is one of them - which is found in milk.
Milk is necessary if you don't want to replace it with something else, such as soy milk that is properly fortified.
sewpunk
Well-known member
hey all, sorry to get into this thread so late, but I wanted to put my vegetarian two cents in...
I wanted to give a quick mention about replaing your old diet with vegan or vegetarian subsitutions.
I love a good meat analog. Fake bacon, soy sandwich slices, my beloved riblets, soy sausage crumbles, chick strips, soymilk that is loaded with added sugar and carrageen... yummm.
But don't be fooled here, while they are all vegan items, they are pretty much manufactured junk foods loaded with sodium, MSG and other fun chemicals. Stinks since they are so tasty and convient making them so tasty and hard for this veg. to pass up.
There are good meat subsitutes - tofu, tempeh and seitan are all whole foods, with no processed junk or little to no additives.
Well, that said, I fully advoacte veganisim. It's very doable. Just try to build your diet slowly with whole grains, beans, nuts, fresh fruits and veggies, and limited fakes. If you slip, keep at it. It's a lifestyle change, not just a diet.
Also - Please check out the cook book Vegan with a Vengeance. It's an awesome cookbook that does not rely on fake meat to make a tasty wholesome meals.
Hope that helps!
MxAxC-_ATTACK
Well-known member
Quote:
I remember hearing that a long time ago, weird.
Milk makes me sick, anything containing milk , like cheese , ice cream etc etc.. Makes me so freaking sick afterwards,
I love ricemilk. Its fannntastic in Cereal <(isthat spelt right its looking wrong to me right now)
Soy also makes me feel sick
I have to take Calcium pills with added vitamin D, which helps absorb calcium into your body, but too much calcium is bad, you can get some major Kidney stones if you have too much calcium
| Originally Posted by Raerae Oh also forgot another point about milk... Humans are the only species to drink another animals milk, and also, were the only ones who drink milk past infantcy. So how necessary is milk? Since we probably didn't drink it until cows were domesticated. There are plenty of other sources of calcium. |
I remember hearing that a long time ago, weird.
Milk makes me sick, anything containing milk , like cheese , ice cream etc etc.. Makes me so freaking sick afterwards,
I love ricemilk. Its fannntastic in Cereal <(isthat spelt right its looking wrong to me right now)
Soy also makes me feel sick
I have to take Calcium pills with added vitamin D, which helps absorb calcium into your body, but too much calcium is bad, you can get some major Kidney stones if you have too much calcium
lovalotz
Well-known member
I'm drinking soymilk.
But i wish my mom would buy me the unsweetened kind. It's pretty weird with cereal =(
Btw..does anyone else eat their cereal with soymilk? lol
So far so good..it's been a week since i've started with my new diet.
Only downfall was when I went out for pita wraps and the guy put meat into my VEGETARIAN wrap.. grr
But i wish my mom would buy me the unsweetened kind. It's pretty weird with cereal =(
Btw..does anyone else eat their cereal with soymilk? lol
So far so good..it's been a week since i've started with my new diet.
Only downfall was when I went out for pita wraps and the guy put meat into my VEGETARIAN wrap.. grr
Wattage
Well-known member
Quote:
Hey!
I use soy in my cereal - the unsweetened one. I drink So Nice (and ONLY So Nice) because it's organic and the unsweetened one tastes really good. I cook with it as well
You should try!! (Hopefully it's available where you are).
http://www.sonice.ca/
| Originally Posted by lovalotz I'm drinking soymilk. But i wish my mom would buy me the unsweetened kind. It's pretty weird with cereal =( Btw..does anyone else eat their cereal with soymilk? lol So far so good..it's been a week since i've started with my new diet. Only downfall was when I went out for pita wraps and the guy put meat into my VEGETARIAN wrap.. grr |
Hey!
I use soy in my cereal - the unsweetened one. I drink So Nice (and ONLY So Nice) because it's organic and the unsweetened one tastes really good. I cook with it as well
You should try!! (Hopefully it's available where you are).
http://www.sonice.ca/
lovalotz
Well-known member
Quote:
Yup! We have So Nice here too!
My mom claims that unsweetened soymilk is too blah and that I would be the only one drinking it. lol
What other foods should i replace meat with?
I've done some research on vegetarianism and found these folowing protien replacements:
Beans, nuts, tofu, soybeans
| Originally Posted by Wattage Hey! I use soy in my cereal - the unsweetened one. I drink So Nice (and ONLY So Nice) because it's organic and the unsweetened one tastes really good. I cook with it as well
You should try!! (Hopefully it's available where you are). http://www.sonice.ca/ |
Yup! We have So Nice here too!
My mom claims that unsweetened soymilk is too blah and that I would be the only one drinking it. lol
What other foods should i replace meat with?
I've done some research on vegetarianism and found these folowing protien replacements:
Beans, nuts, tofu, soybeans
Wattage
Well-known member
Quote:
Yup - you are surely on the right track with those choices. Eggs are a great choice as well, if you are still going to eat eggs.
Some foods, in particular, help you obtain the 9 essential amino acids that you need as a human. These 9 are easily achieved through a meat based diet but harder to get through a vegetarian diet. Good foods in particular are (also known as "hero" foods):
- Chick peas
- Peanut butter
- Walnuts
- Flax oil and flax seed
- Yogurt
- Lentils (red and green in particular)
- Dark green, leafy vegetables
I know that unsweetened soy can be a little on the bland side, but if you drink a lot of milk or soy milk, it can be something to consider. Sweetened soy contains a lot of sugar and can add extra pounds if we aren't careful! AHH!!
| Originally Posted by lovalotz Yup! We have So Nice here too! My mom claims that unsweetened soymilk is too blah and that I would be the only one drinking it. lol What other foods should i replace meat with? I've done some research on vegetarianism and found these folowing protien replacements: Beans, nuts, tofu, soybeans |
Yup - you are surely on the right track with those choices. Eggs are a great choice as well, if you are still going to eat eggs.
Some foods, in particular, help you obtain the 9 essential amino acids that you need as a human. These 9 are easily achieved through a meat based diet but harder to get through a vegetarian diet. Good foods in particular are (also known as "hero" foods):
- Chick peas
- Peanut butter
- Walnuts
- Flax oil and flax seed
- Yogurt
- Lentils (red and green in particular)
- Dark green, leafy vegetables
I know that unsweetened soy can be a little on the bland side, but if you drink a lot of milk or soy milk, it can be something to consider. Sweetened soy contains a lot of sugar and can add extra pounds if we aren't careful! AHH!!
lovalotz
Well-known member
Quote:
ohh okay thanks!
| Originally Posted by Wattage Yup - you are surely on the right track with those choices. Eggs are a great choice as well, if you are still going to eat eggs. Some foods, in particular, help you obtain the 9 essential amino acids that you need as a human. These 9 are easily achieved through a meat based diet but harder to get through a vegetarian diet. Good foods in particular are (also known as "hero" foods): - Chick peas - Peanut butter - Walnuts - Flax oil and flax seed - Yogurt - Lentils (red and green in particular) - Dark green, leafy vegetables I know that unsweetened soy can be a little on the bland side, but if you drink a lot of milk or soy milk, it can be something to consider. Sweetened soy contains a lot of sugar and can add extra pounds if we aren't careful! AHH!! |
ohh okay thanks!
angeldust
Active member
awww i love this thread !!! i'm pescetarian because i can't kick my sushi habit, otherwise i would probably be vegan as well. i think i might flood out this thread with a couple veg(itari)an related posts to answer any other questions. Its really good to find a website where other people aren't condoning a lifestyle choice. rock on specktra..
angeldust
Active member
there's cussing so if you have virgin-ears/eyes skip it.
didn't write this. I don't know who did. But If you want to become vegan, this will help you. Even if you don't want to become vegan, you should probably read this before you go about critisizing it.
MY VEGAN MANIFESTO:
---THIS IS ALL INFO MEANT TO HELP THE PEOPLE WHO ARE MAKING THE LEAP INTO THE VEGGIE LIFESTYLE--- (WELCOME... WE LOVE YOU.)
I thought a lot more years would pass before I wrote this. I guess I was wrong.
People have been asking me for info on the vegan lifestyle. a lot.
It's a good thing. The fact that I need to lay it out shows that people's eyes are open. It shows a fucking a willingness to try. and that. is THE big deal isn't it?
Thus far, I've always dispensed these little pieces of information one at a time, but I think it's time to do it right. So here we go.
We do this for our health.
We do this for our beauty.
We do this for the environment.
We do this for the animals.
And yes. we do it for the sex.
Ladies and gentlemen.
welcome to my Tao of the Veg.
First off, I am totally NOT the big fucking definitive HYPERION VEGGIE GURU.
I'm a punk bastard, and borderline invincible, so see this as an "IN MY OWN EXPERIENCE" kind of thing thing, and try not to fuck yourselves up.
HOW DO VEGANS BECOME VEGAN. HOW DOES IT HAPPEN?
Usually they just think about it over time, and then a day comes when they hit a point where they decide they need more power, a new level of separation from the masses, and a greater sense of self and self image... and they just do it.
And when they do. this is how they make it.
HOW DO WE FIND KICK-ASS RESTAURANTS?
www.HAPPYCOW.net Is a super-Jedi veggie restaurant locator! YAY!!!
HOW DO WE GO SHOPPING?
THE STORES:
There are basically 4 different vegan friendly grocery chains in the place to be, that will be more than happy to rock your face.
Whole Foods: STORE LOCATOR
Henry's and Wild Oats (both the same company): STORE LOCATOR
Trader Joe's: STORE LOCATOR
Mothers: STORE LOCATOR
THE STARTER KIT:
You can get a free VEGETARIAN/VEGAN STARTER KIT from GOVEG.COM
It's cool. Just click HERE to order it.
WHAT ARE THE CLEANEST, MOST HELPFUL WEBSITES?:
www.goveg.org
www.peta2.org
WHAT ARE THE PIMP-MY-VEG MYSPACE GROUPS?:
This is the VEGETABLE MAFIA.
This is the HOTT VEGANS GROUP.
This is the STOP ANIMAL ABUSE GROUP.
This is the ANIMAL ABUSE MUST STOP GROUP.
This is the PETA2 GROUP.
There are more.
CRUELTY FREE COMPANIES. CONNECT ME.:
Every year, PETA honors companies that show compassion, spread awareness, reduce animal suffering, promote animal liberation, and further vegetarian food science.
These awards are called, THE PROGGY AWARDS .and they are, to put it simply. the shit.
Go there. check out the list. you will find nothing but vegan friendly companies that do everything under the sun. There are too many good veggie food companies to list, but there are 4 good meat replacement companies that are everywhere. They are:
Boca Foods,
Morningstar Farms,
Turtle Island Foods, and
Gardenburger.
THINGS YOU SHOULD WATCH:
CHEW ON THIS is a film short, that quickly dispenses 30 reasons to become vegetarian.
EARTHLINGS is an incredible documentary that illustrates the entire scope of speciesism.
VITAMIN SUPLIMENTS AND THE ROCKSTAR:
Ok, you need some vitamins. true. I don't stress out over these much, and as you can see, I'm ok. I don't get wobbly and pass out or anything weird, in fact, one could even say I'm in reasonable shape. I don't know more than the basics, so, here's the basics.
MULTIVITAMIN: Get one. make sure it has a lot of stuff in it.
IRON: This shit you need. I take SLOW-FE because it's slow release.
OMEGAS: Iceland has the longest average lifespan of any country in the world cause they eat lost of fishies and get a lot of omega oils. You need Omega 3, and a lot of people take fish oil capsules to get it, but vegans take FLAX SEED OIL pills cause they don't wanna eat fish juice. J
B: Get a B complex. don't worry if it has like 3 times your daily requirement. You'll only absorb a quarter of it anyway. unless you go dancing at industrial clubs a lot. then the Chartreuse, Redbull and exercize'll make you sop that shit up like a sponge.
CALCIUM / MAGNESIUM: You're supposed to take it. I don't. I like to think that this makes me a more colorful person.
I KNOW I MISSED SOMETHING HERE, but. oh well. on with the onslaught.
ROCKSTAR: I have a long developed habit of carting around a Rockstar or equivalent energy drink all the time, sometimes 2 a day. I had already decided that this was a nasty habit because 5 different friends said I was gonna kill myself with them and I had heard some horror stories about people having heart attacks at dance clubs and such.. However. When I VEGANIZED. I didn't take anything to balance myself out. no multivitamin, no B complex. nothing. But I never got sick or weird or ended up really crawling on the floor from nutritional imbalance. WHY? I checked every food product in my life to see if they were secretly supplying me with the vitamins I was missing. nothing. The only food I didn't check was the Rockstar. because I already knew it was a bad thing. One day I glance at my energy drinks label, and BLAM. Right there. Loaded with vitamins. My Rockstar addiction had facilitated my conversion, and I didn't even know it. Now, I should mention that I'm using the term Rockstar as a generic word for an energy drink. there are other ones that are way more vitamin happy. LOST is good. I don't recommend doing this shit. I only mention it because it's what I did, and I didn't have a transition period. I went from full carnivore to vegan in one night, and I never faltered in the least, so, something went right.
cont. in next post.
didn't write this. I don't know who did. But If you want to become vegan, this will help you. Even if you don't want to become vegan, you should probably read this before you go about critisizing it.
MY VEGAN MANIFESTO:
---THIS IS ALL INFO MEANT TO HELP THE PEOPLE WHO ARE MAKING THE LEAP INTO THE VEGGIE LIFESTYLE--- (WELCOME... WE LOVE YOU.)
I thought a lot more years would pass before I wrote this. I guess I was wrong.
People have been asking me for info on the vegan lifestyle. a lot.
It's a good thing. The fact that I need to lay it out shows that people's eyes are open. It shows a fucking a willingness to try. and that. is THE big deal isn't it?
Thus far, I've always dispensed these little pieces of information one at a time, but I think it's time to do it right. So here we go.
We do this for our health.
We do this for our beauty.
We do this for the environment.
We do this for the animals.
And yes. we do it for the sex.
Ladies and gentlemen.
welcome to my Tao of the Veg.
First off, I am totally NOT the big fucking definitive HYPERION VEGGIE GURU.
I'm a punk bastard, and borderline invincible, so see this as an "IN MY OWN EXPERIENCE" kind of thing thing, and try not to fuck yourselves up.
HOW DO VEGANS BECOME VEGAN. HOW DOES IT HAPPEN?
Usually they just think about it over time, and then a day comes when they hit a point where they decide they need more power, a new level of separation from the masses, and a greater sense of self and self image... and they just do it.
And when they do. this is how they make it.
HOW DO WE FIND KICK-ASS RESTAURANTS?
www.HAPPYCOW.net Is a super-Jedi veggie restaurant locator! YAY!!!
HOW DO WE GO SHOPPING?
THE STORES:
There are basically 4 different vegan friendly grocery chains in the place to be, that will be more than happy to rock your face.
Whole Foods: STORE LOCATOR
Henry's and Wild Oats (both the same company): STORE LOCATOR
Trader Joe's: STORE LOCATOR
Mothers: STORE LOCATOR
THE STARTER KIT:
You can get a free VEGETARIAN/VEGAN STARTER KIT from GOVEG.COM
It's cool. Just click HERE to order it.
WHAT ARE THE CLEANEST, MOST HELPFUL WEBSITES?:
www.goveg.org
www.peta2.org
WHAT ARE THE PIMP-MY-VEG MYSPACE GROUPS?:
This is the VEGETABLE MAFIA.
This is the HOTT VEGANS GROUP.
This is the STOP ANIMAL ABUSE GROUP.
This is the ANIMAL ABUSE MUST STOP GROUP.
This is the PETA2 GROUP.
There are more.
CRUELTY FREE COMPANIES. CONNECT ME.:
Every year, PETA honors companies that show compassion, spread awareness, reduce animal suffering, promote animal liberation, and further vegetarian food science.
These awards are called, THE PROGGY AWARDS .and they are, to put it simply. the shit.
Go there. check out the list. you will find nothing but vegan friendly companies that do everything under the sun. There are too many good veggie food companies to list, but there are 4 good meat replacement companies that are everywhere. They are:
Boca Foods,
Morningstar Farms,
Turtle Island Foods, and
Gardenburger.
THINGS YOU SHOULD WATCH:
CHEW ON THIS is a film short, that quickly dispenses 30 reasons to become vegetarian.
EARTHLINGS is an incredible documentary that illustrates the entire scope of speciesism.
VITAMIN SUPLIMENTS AND THE ROCKSTAR:
Ok, you need some vitamins. true. I don't stress out over these much, and as you can see, I'm ok. I don't get wobbly and pass out or anything weird, in fact, one could even say I'm in reasonable shape. I don't know more than the basics, so, here's the basics.
MULTIVITAMIN: Get one. make sure it has a lot of stuff in it.
IRON: This shit you need. I take SLOW-FE because it's slow release.
OMEGAS: Iceland has the longest average lifespan of any country in the world cause they eat lost of fishies and get a lot of omega oils. You need Omega 3, and a lot of people take fish oil capsules to get it, but vegans take FLAX SEED OIL pills cause they don't wanna eat fish juice. J
B: Get a B complex. don't worry if it has like 3 times your daily requirement. You'll only absorb a quarter of it anyway. unless you go dancing at industrial clubs a lot. then the Chartreuse, Redbull and exercize'll make you sop that shit up like a sponge.
CALCIUM / MAGNESIUM: You're supposed to take it. I don't. I like to think that this makes me a more colorful person.
I KNOW I MISSED SOMETHING HERE, but. oh well. on with the onslaught.
ROCKSTAR: I have a long developed habit of carting around a Rockstar or equivalent energy drink all the time, sometimes 2 a day. I had already decided that this was a nasty habit because 5 different friends said I was gonna kill myself with them and I had heard some horror stories about people having heart attacks at dance clubs and such.. However. When I VEGANIZED. I didn't take anything to balance myself out. no multivitamin, no B complex. nothing. But I never got sick or weird or ended up really crawling on the floor from nutritional imbalance. WHY? I checked every food product in my life to see if they were secretly supplying me with the vitamins I was missing. nothing. The only food I didn't check was the Rockstar. because I already knew it was a bad thing. One day I glance at my energy drinks label, and BLAM. Right there. Loaded with vitamins. My Rockstar addiction had facilitated my conversion, and I didn't even know it. Now, I should mention that I'm using the term Rockstar as a generic word for an energy drink. there are other ones that are way more vitamin happy. LOST is good. I don't recommend doing this shit. I only mention it because it's what I did, and I didn't have a transition period. I went from full carnivore to vegan in one night, and I never faltered in the least, so, something went right.
cont. in next post.
angeldust
Active member
THE MYTHOS AND "THE GAME":
A lot of fuckers look at how they eat now, and then look at a vegan, and say, "Oh, I could never do that. it's too hard."
Bullshit. those people are looking at it in exactly the opposite way that we do. as a chore, or a struggle.
Truth is, it's pretty easy. and it's actually pretty fun.
Every vegan I know forms this habit. a sort of game. and the game is this:
You remember the foods that you miss the most, and then you start the work. You find animal friendly replacements for everything in them, and then you make it. You hone it. until your vegan version is good. you just do it until your VEGAN chorizo and jalapeno pizza kicks the shit out of any other pizza, and your carnivorous friends are gagging for it.
My next thing is gonna be biscuits and gravy. Im a winter person, and I used to love going to a breakfast nook in the mountains and getting a big platter-thing of biscuits and gravy. It will be done. And after that, im goin for the impossible. Fish and chips.
The thing is, that when everybody else cooks, they may be proud of it because what they made is good. But when a vegan cooks, they get a whole different pride.
Because while you're doing it, you're expanding minds. every person you expose it to will have that much more faith in the walk. When they see that you are more like a humanitarian ninja, and less like a tree hugging librarian, its pretty nostalgic because sometimes it actually builds their faith in their own ability to do the right thing.
The world is still under the myth that we just nibble on plates of raw vegetables.
They have no idea that what you're eating exists. At least not in a "god this is really good" / cruelty free incarnation.
In short, cause it's healthy, it bolsters the ego and the self image, it opens minds, it saves animals, and once you're in, its fuck-off good.
One of the best things I've ever heard to this point was this:
I was with a group of people, meat-necks, sporty footballer types. they were planning a party. a reception, and I expected them to say barbecue, so I had already tuned out, and then the guy says, "well hey, it's a special occasion, and I want the food to be good, so can we get the vegan girl to do the food?" I about cried.
THE PETA BULLSHIT:
People make up crazy things. One person posted about hating PETA for crazy nonsensical things that never happened, as well as things done by individual nut-jobs. This is my response to him, and any other defeatist or retarded hecklers:
AN ORGANIZATION IS NOT ITS MEMBERS.
Members go out and do things, ON THEIR OWN...
(most of what you hear is rumors and exaggeration. but things do happen)
I work in the Free Tibet campaign... We're generally peaceful people that pride ourselves on awareness and patience. But last year 3 FREE TIBET members strapped themselves with dynamite and blew up Chinese civilians.
DOES THAT MEAN that the FREE TIBET campaign is a radical terrorist movement? No.
Believing that PETA sanctifies everything that every malnourished sociopath in the country does in the name of animals, is no more valid than a waiter in Paris believing that YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE, BECAUSE YOU'RE AN AMERICAN, AND THE LAST AMERICAN THAT CAME THRU WAS AN ASSHOLE. Or that, if you're a Christian, you hate gays, because, I ran into a Christian that hates gays... That's ridiculous.
People are people man.
And I'm telling you.... PETA people are good people.
They're thinkers. They have hearts... and above all else... They try.
Which is a lot more than I can say for most groups.
WHY VEGAN BEYOND VEGGIE (the milk thing):
Many people believe that dairy cattle are not made to suffer by the process of modern milk production. Not true. In fact, they're killed by it. Today's dairy cattle are grossly modified versions of the cows that they once were many generations ago. A cow does not naturally lactate year round. These cows are pumped so full of hormones, that they actually DO. by force. They live in slim corrals and give milk to the robot, full time, with no exercise. As a result, their legs never develop enough to support their hormone inflated bodies, and eventually, when they can't hold themselves up any longer. they collapse, and are put to death, and replaced. The cattle that our modern dairy cows are evolved from had an average lifespan of 14-16 years. These modern dairy cows now have an average lifespan of 4. We did that. J Who says you can't change the world huh?
And I think this would be a point to go over.
THE BATTERY CAGE THING:
Some vegans boycott Trader Joe's because they sell eggs that come from battery cages. I don't do this. I won't. Because I believe in the team mentality. That is to say, that Trader Joe's is a family buiz that has done a lot for the cause. especially compared to normal food store chain. They were the first to put what they do on the map here in the OC. They started a vegan labeling system, and built the organic food world in the place where I live. They opened the door to a previously nonexistent market so that these other places that are expanding now could even exist, and they never lost their ideals. There is nothing here that they didn't pave the way for. so, when I stand in the store and see all the shit that they've done for us, I won't sit there and crucify them for a single flaw that I hate, any more than I would tell a vegan that their efforts are meaningless because they are wearing leather shoes. Nobody's perfect, and if you're on my team. you're on my team. We help each other grow. and they day we start raising our guns to each other when there are so many people against us, we have abandoned the principal of combined strength, which is exactly what our actual enemies need us to do.
And so Sun Su says in The Art of War.
(I can't believe I just referenced the art of war in application to vegan shopping. who's the ninja.? Synthian's the ninja.)
The point is. we talk to them. we correct them. we write them a letter. but we don't abandon our friends.
Now.
Q: What the fuck is a battery cage?
A: In 15th century France (the "dark ages") there was a punishment process known as "retention therapy".which was basically the process of completely restraining a person in an upright metal cage that fits the form of the convict in a standing position with their arms at their sides. They would then be left in a completely dark chamber until their "demons had been purged". Needless to say, it in now illegal to do this to people...
On to the cage.
A battery cage is a harsh tool that factory farmer use to corral chickens.
They make the most use of their production space by making sure that each chicken is in a cage no wider than a chicken. A chicken that lives in a battery cage can never even spread one wing. They spend their entire lives fully restrained in pitch darkness, and then die without that experience. That nightmare, is their entire experience on this planet. Which is why we refer to factory farms as Hell. But the process is called "manufacturing".
cont. in next post
A lot of fuckers look at how they eat now, and then look at a vegan, and say, "Oh, I could never do that. it's too hard."
Bullshit. those people are looking at it in exactly the opposite way that we do. as a chore, or a struggle.
Truth is, it's pretty easy. and it's actually pretty fun.
Every vegan I know forms this habit. a sort of game. and the game is this:
You remember the foods that you miss the most, and then you start the work. You find animal friendly replacements for everything in them, and then you make it. You hone it. until your vegan version is good. you just do it until your VEGAN chorizo and jalapeno pizza kicks the shit out of any other pizza, and your carnivorous friends are gagging for it.
My next thing is gonna be biscuits and gravy. Im a winter person, and I used to love going to a breakfast nook in the mountains and getting a big platter-thing of biscuits and gravy. It will be done. And after that, im goin for the impossible. Fish and chips.
The thing is, that when everybody else cooks, they may be proud of it because what they made is good. But when a vegan cooks, they get a whole different pride.
Because while you're doing it, you're expanding minds. every person you expose it to will have that much more faith in the walk. When they see that you are more like a humanitarian ninja, and less like a tree hugging librarian, its pretty nostalgic because sometimes it actually builds their faith in their own ability to do the right thing.
The world is still under the myth that we just nibble on plates of raw vegetables.
They have no idea that what you're eating exists. At least not in a "god this is really good" / cruelty free incarnation.
In short, cause it's healthy, it bolsters the ego and the self image, it opens minds, it saves animals, and once you're in, its fuck-off good.
One of the best things I've ever heard to this point was this:
I was with a group of people, meat-necks, sporty footballer types. they were planning a party. a reception, and I expected them to say barbecue, so I had already tuned out, and then the guy says, "well hey, it's a special occasion, and I want the food to be good, so can we get the vegan girl to do the food?" I about cried.
THE PETA BULLSHIT:
People make up crazy things. One person posted about hating PETA for crazy nonsensical things that never happened, as well as things done by individual nut-jobs. This is my response to him, and any other defeatist or retarded hecklers:
AN ORGANIZATION IS NOT ITS MEMBERS.
Members go out and do things, ON THEIR OWN...
(most of what you hear is rumors and exaggeration. but things do happen)
I work in the Free Tibet campaign... We're generally peaceful people that pride ourselves on awareness and patience. But last year 3 FREE TIBET members strapped themselves with dynamite and blew up Chinese civilians.
DOES THAT MEAN that the FREE TIBET campaign is a radical terrorist movement? No.
Believing that PETA sanctifies everything that every malnourished sociopath in the country does in the name of animals, is no more valid than a waiter in Paris believing that YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE, BECAUSE YOU'RE AN AMERICAN, AND THE LAST AMERICAN THAT CAME THRU WAS AN ASSHOLE. Or that, if you're a Christian, you hate gays, because, I ran into a Christian that hates gays... That's ridiculous.
People are people man.
And I'm telling you.... PETA people are good people.
They're thinkers. They have hearts... and above all else... They try.
Which is a lot more than I can say for most groups.
WHY VEGAN BEYOND VEGGIE (the milk thing):
Many people believe that dairy cattle are not made to suffer by the process of modern milk production. Not true. In fact, they're killed by it. Today's dairy cattle are grossly modified versions of the cows that they once were many generations ago. A cow does not naturally lactate year round. These cows are pumped so full of hormones, that they actually DO. by force. They live in slim corrals and give milk to the robot, full time, with no exercise. As a result, their legs never develop enough to support their hormone inflated bodies, and eventually, when they can't hold themselves up any longer. they collapse, and are put to death, and replaced. The cattle that our modern dairy cows are evolved from had an average lifespan of 14-16 years. These modern dairy cows now have an average lifespan of 4. We did that. J Who says you can't change the world huh?
And I think this would be a point to go over.
THE BATTERY CAGE THING:
Some vegans boycott Trader Joe's because they sell eggs that come from battery cages. I don't do this. I won't. Because I believe in the team mentality. That is to say, that Trader Joe's is a family buiz that has done a lot for the cause. especially compared to normal food store chain. They were the first to put what they do on the map here in the OC. They started a vegan labeling system, and built the organic food world in the place where I live. They opened the door to a previously nonexistent market so that these other places that are expanding now could even exist, and they never lost their ideals. There is nothing here that they didn't pave the way for. so, when I stand in the store and see all the shit that they've done for us, I won't sit there and crucify them for a single flaw that I hate, any more than I would tell a vegan that their efforts are meaningless because they are wearing leather shoes. Nobody's perfect, and if you're on my team. you're on my team. We help each other grow. and they day we start raising our guns to each other when there are so many people against us, we have abandoned the principal of combined strength, which is exactly what our actual enemies need us to do.
And so Sun Su says in The Art of War.
(I can't believe I just referenced the art of war in application to vegan shopping. who's the ninja.? Synthian's the ninja.)
The point is. we talk to them. we correct them. we write them a letter. but we don't abandon our friends.
Now.
Q: What the fuck is a battery cage?
A: In 15th century France (the "dark ages") there was a punishment process known as "retention therapy".which was basically the process of completely restraining a person in an upright metal cage that fits the form of the convict in a standing position with their arms at their sides. They would then be left in a completely dark chamber until their "demons had been purged". Needless to say, it in now illegal to do this to people...
On to the cage.
A battery cage is a harsh tool that factory farmer use to corral chickens.
They make the most use of their production space by making sure that each chicken is in a cage no wider than a chicken. A chicken that lives in a battery cage can never even spread one wing. They spend their entire lives fully restrained in pitch darkness, and then die without that experience. That nightmare, is their entire experience on this planet. Which is why we refer to factory farms as Hell. But the process is called "manufacturing".
cont. in next post
angeldust
Active member
VEGETARIANISM AND THE ENVIRONMENT:
This list was compiled by a friend who kicks ninja ass, to show me the connection between environmental activism and vegetarianism.
It will let you know very quickly: 1- Why you can't be a bad-ass environmentalist and still eat meat, and, 2- Why the most effective thing you can do for the environment is GO VEG.
1. ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT:
POLLUTION:
The meat industry causes more water pollution
in the United Stated than all other industries combined. The excrement from farm animals is 130 times more than the entire human population, 86,600 pounds per second. Large amounts of this waste is released into the ocean. As a direct result of pig excrement, the deadly microorganism "PHYSTERIA" was born. Physteria has caused largest fish kill in history and is a threat to humans and animals. Physteria creates toxins that dissolve the flesh of fish, which it then consumes, resulting in lesions and causing large-scale kills in fish and in Humans due to contact or eating contaminated sea food. People who have been in affected waters can be affected. Humans who have been in the waters for short times, or even handled the fish, have developed sores and also neurological symptoms such as memory problems. Physteria has over 20 different forms it can assume; in some of which it is an aggressive predator. Physteria is an international biohazard and it's growing.
LAND:
Of all the agricultural land in the US, 87 percent is used to raise animals for food.
WATER:
Raising animals for food consumes more than half of all the water in the United States. It takes 2,500 gallons of water to produce a pound of meat, but only 25 gallons to produce a pound of wheat.
DEFORESTATION:
Rain forests are being destroyed at a rate of 125,000 Square miles per year to create space to raise animals for slaughter.
ENERGY:
More than 1/3 of all raw materials and fossil fuels used in the US are used to raise animals for food. Producing a single hamburger patty uses enough fossil fuel to drive a small car 20 miles and enough water for 20 showers.
ECOSYSTEMS:
Our planet is being yanked out of balance with the destruction of land, air, water, and animal life. We have lost respect for nature. If we don't stop destroying the planet and disrespecting every life form on it, eventually we will be forced to, and the results of our actions will be devastating to future generations as well as ours.
WHY...VEGETARIAN? WHY VEGAN? Because it's something anyone and
everyone can do NOW, TO HELP THE PLANET.
INTELLIGENT ARGUMENTS FROM INTELLIGENT PEOPLE:
HI-I.Q. NON-VEGAN: The thing I've learned is that you can't generalize that all meat is bad.
RESPONSE: No... but we do generalize about pain. All meat causes suffering.
(If you'd like a broader dissertation on the subject, please read my blog "You vs. The Lion - bound to action by you own awareness")
VEGANISM AND SEX: (have you hugged your vegan today?)
Here is the question posed:
"Is it true that sex gets better when you go vegan?"
The last time I was asked this, I said, "haha... ya hun... just ask one." And she said, "I am asking one."
So here is my response to her:
(Again, I'm going to preface this with a big fat "I CAN'T SPEAK FOR EVERYONE." This is an "IN MY EXPERIENCE" thing. Backed by a "Trust me. many people agree.")
A- As a general consensus. yes.
Its just something that happens...
Why?
1- Deep within the cavernous regions of the brain that we supposedly don't use, there lies a mass of grey matter that senses toxins in a person... and with those gone... things change...
2- There is a semi-secretive mutual respect during vegan on vegan that the non-veg world doesn't seem to see or understand. or get off on...
3- Vegans get very hardcore with each other very quickly... because they spend so much of their lives being sex starved. They sometimes don't go for meat eaters, because they can taste the animals on their tongues, and there's a missing vibe.
So... Its like being a midgit... you don't have a lot of midget girlfriends around that get you... so... when an event comes along where there are a lot of other midgets... you can pretty much assume, that everyone there is out to get laid, and feel at home for the night... so, when single vegans get a hold of each other, they have an "unvoiced" tendency to touch each other, and a tendency to stay awake for each other like they were sort of storing up the glow for winter.
I cant believe I just wrote that. I've been asked that before, but I've never really answered it. settled the curiosity.
I bet it might leave some people looking at their vegan friends a little differently... give a little insight... maybe even turn them on.
Look at your vegan friend... open a new psychological door... because veganism is hot.
There you have it.
You can't follow the path if you won't face the trail.
This is the walk. and these are the steps.
i'll post more later...
This list was compiled by a friend who kicks ninja ass, to show me the connection between environmental activism and vegetarianism.
It will let you know very quickly: 1- Why you can't be a bad-ass environmentalist and still eat meat, and, 2- Why the most effective thing you can do for the environment is GO VEG.
1. ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT:
POLLUTION:
The meat industry causes more water pollution
in the United Stated than all other industries combined. The excrement from farm animals is 130 times more than the entire human population, 86,600 pounds per second. Large amounts of this waste is released into the ocean. As a direct result of pig excrement, the deadly microorganism "PHYSTERIA" was born. Physteria has caused largest fish kill in history and is a threat to humans and animals. Physteria creates toxins that dissolve the flesh of fish, which it then consumes, resulting in lesions and causing large-scale kills in fish and in Humans due to contact or eating contaminated sea food. People who have been in affected waters can be affected. Humans who have been in the waters for short times, or even handled the fish, have developed sores and also neurological symptoms such as memory problems. Physteria has over 20 different forms it can assume; in some of which it is an aggressive predator. Physteria is an international biohazard and it's growing.
LAND:
Of all the agricultural land in the US, 87 percent is used to raise animals for food.
WATER:
Raising animals for food consumes more than half of all the water in the United States. It takes 2,500 gallons of water to produce a pound of meat, but only 25 gallons to produce a pound of wheat.
DEFORESTATION:
Rain forests are being destroyed at a rate of 125,000 Square miles per year to create space to raise animals for slaughter.
ENERGY:
More than 1/3 of all raw materials and fossil fuels used in the US are used to raise animals for food. Producing a single hamburger patty uses enough fossil fuel to drive a small car 20 miles and enough water for 20 showers.
ECOSYSTEMS:
Our planet is being yanked out of balance with the destruction of land, air, water, and animal life. We have lost respect for nature. If we don't stop destroying the planet and disrespecting every life form on it, eventually we will be forced to, and the results of our actions will be devastating to future generations as well as ours.
WHY...VEGETARIAN? WHY VEGAN? Because it's something anyone and
everyone can do NOW, TO HELP THE PLANET.
INTELLIGENT ARGUMENTS FROM INTELLIGENT PEOPLE:
HI-I.Q. NON-VEGAN: The thing I've learned is that you can't generalize that all meat is bad.
RESPONSE: No... but we do generalize about pain. All meat causes suffering.
(If you'd like a broader dissertation on the subject, please read my blog "You vs. The Lion - bound to action by you own awareness")
VEGANISM AND SEX: (have you hugged your vegan today?)
Here is the question posed:
"Is it true that sex gets better when you go vegan?"
The last time I was asked this, I said, "haha... ya hun... just ask one." And she said, "I am asking one."
So here is my response to her:
(Again, I'm going to preface this with a big fat "I CAN'T SPEAK FOR EVERYONE." This is an "IN MY EXPERIENCE" thing. Backed by a "Trust me. many people agree.")
A- As a general consensus. yes.
Its just something that happens...
Why?
1- Deep within the cavernous regions of the brain that we supposedly don't use, there lies a mass of grey matter that senses toxins in a person... and with those gone... things change...
2- There is a semi-secretive mutual respect during vegan on vegan that the non-veg world doesn't seem to see or understand. or get off on...
3- Vegans get very hardcore with each other very quickly... because they spend so much of their lives being sex starved. They sometimes don't go for meat eaters, because they can taste the animals on their tongues, and there's a missing vibe.
So... Its like being a midgit... you don't have a lot of midget girlfriends around that get you... so... when an event comes along where there are a lot of other midgets... you can pretty much assume, that everyone there is out to get laid, and feel at home for the night... so, when single vegans get a hold of each other, they have an "unvoiced" tendency to touch each other, and a tendency to stay awake for each other like they were sort of storing up the glow for winter.
I cant believe I just wrote that. I've been asked that before, but I've never really answered it. settled the curiosity.
I bet it might leave some people looking at their vegan friends a little differently... give a little insight... maybe even turn them on.
Look at your vegan friend... open a new psychological door... because veganism is hot.
There you have it.
You can't follow the path if you won't face the trail.
This is the walk. and these are the steps.
i'll post more later...
Raerae
Well-known member
Heh your making me wanna go back to being Vegan again lol... Considering i'm 80% there already it woulnd't be that hard lol. Only problem I run into is leather shoes LOL! Cuz some of them are omg pretty. But then again, there is an equal number of pretty shoes that aren't leather
Dont forget the other fun part about being Vegan, it annoys and confuses the heck outa people! Especially when you get invited over for dinner and they dont know, and you dont eat 90% of what they prepared LOL!
Me: No thanks, I dont eat meat, I'm Vegan!
Them: :whattha:
LOL!
Dont forget the other fun part about being Vegan, it annoys and confuses the heck outa people! Especially when you get invited over for dinner and they dont know, and you dont eat 90% of what they prepared LOL!
Me: No thanks, I dont eat meat, I'm Vegan!
Them: :whattha:
LOL!
YvetteJeannine
Well-known member
AngelDust Wrote:
Quote:
Thank you..Proud Peta member here
Also, another fact about the Dairy industry some people don't know, don't care, or don't want to think about; they are the SINGLE BIGGEST SUPPORTERS/PRODUCERS of the VEAL industry. Every lil' bitty male cow that gets born immediately gets ripped away (crying) from it's mother (NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO SUCKLE FIRST) so it can be turned into Veal Parmagian
So, all those meat lovers out there that say "Well, I won't eat Veal" are still contributing to the Veal industry every time they purchase a bottle of milk at their local grocery, whether they know it or not.
Thanks so much for your insightful post....there is so much people DO NOT know...and I'm so sick of hearing trash about "those Peta people"...every organization has it's "bad apples"...even the RED CROSS...a world renown organization has it's crazies and ass.oles...you don't hear people (in the masses) going around saying "Those G..damned crazy Red Cross fools..."
THANK YOU.
Edit To Add: Even though you didn't author this post, I still thank you very much for posting it
Quote:
| THE MYTHOS AND "THE GAME": A lot of fuckers look at how they eat now, and then look at a vegan, and say, "Oh, I could never do that. it's too hard." Bullshit. those people are looking at it in exactly the opposite way that we do. as a chore, or a struggle. Truth is, it's pretty easy. and it's actually pretty fun. Every vegan I know forms this habit. a sort of game. and the game is this: You remember the foods that you miss the most, and then you start the work. You find animal friendly replacements for everything in them, and then you make it. You hone it. until your vegan version is good. you just do it until your VEGAN chorizo and jalapeno pizza kicks the shit out of any other pizza, and your carnivorous friends are gagging for it. My next thing is gonna be biscuits and gravy. Im a winter person, and I used to love going to a breakfast nook in the mountains and getting a big platter-thing of biscuits and gravy. It will be done. And after that, im goin for the impossible. Fish and chips. The thing is, that when everybody else cooks, they may be proud of it because what they made is good. But when a vegan cooks, they get a whole different pride. Because while you're doing it, you're expanding minds. every person you expose it to will have that much more faith in the walk. When they see that you are more like a humanitarian ninja, and less like a tree hugging librarian, its pretty nostalgic because sometimes it actually builds their faith in their own ability to do the right thing. The world is still under the myth that we just nibble on plates of raw vegetables. They have no idea that what you're eating exists. At least not in a "god this is really good" / cruelty free incarnation. In short, cause it's healthy, it bolsters the ego and the self image, it opens minds, it saves animals, and once you're in, its fuck-off good. One of the best things I've ever heard to this point was this: I was with a group of people, meat-necks, sporty footballer types. they were planning a party. a reception, and I expected them to say barbecue, so I had already tuned out, and then the guy says, "well hey, it's a special occasion, and I want the food to be good, so can we get the vegan girl to do the food?" I about cried. THE PETA BULLSHIT: People make up crazy things. One person posted about hating PETA for crazy nonsensical things that never happened, as well as things done by individual nut-jobs. This is my response to him, and any other defeatist or retarded hecklers: AN ORGANIZATION IS NOT ITS MEMBERS. Members go out and do things, ON THEIR OWN... (most of what you hear is rumors and exaggeration. but things do happen) I work in the Free Tibet campaign... We're generally peaceful people that pride ourselves on awareness and patience. But last year 3 FREE TIBET members strapped themselves with dynamite and blew up Chinese civilians. DOES THAT MEAN that the FREE TIBET campaign is a radical terrorist movement? No. Believing that PETA sanctifies everything that every malnourished sociopath in the country does in the name of animals, is no more valid than a waiter in Paris believing that YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE, BECAUSE YOU'RE AN AMERICAN, AND THE LAST AMERICAN THAT CAME THRU WAS AN ASSHOLE. Or that, if you're a Christian, you hate gays, because, I ran into a Christian that hates gays... That's ridiculous. People are people man. And I'm telling you.... PETA people are good people. They're thinkers. They have hearts... and above all else... They try. Which is a lot more than I can say for most groups. WHY VEGAN BEYOND VEGGIE (the milk thing): Many people believe that dairy cattle are not made to suffer by the process of modern milk production. Not true. In fact, they're killed by it. Today's dairy cattle are grossly modified versions of the cows that they once were many generations ago. A cow does not naturally lactate year round. These cows are pumped so full of hormones, that they actually DO. by force. They live in slim corrals and give milk to the robot, full time, with no exercise. As a result, their legs never develop enough to support their hormone inflated bodies, and eventually, when they can't hold themselves up any longer. they collapse, and are put to death, and replaced. The cattle that our modern dairy cows are evolved from had an average lifespan of 14-16 years. These modern dairy cows now have an average lifespan of 4. We did that. J Who says you can't change the world huh? |
Also, another fact about the Dairy industry some people don't know, don't care, or don't want to think about; they are the SINGLE BIGGEST SUPPORTERS/PRODUCERS of the VEAL industry. Every lil' bitty male cow that gets born immediately gets ripped away (crying) from it's mother (NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO SUCKLE FIRST) so it can be turned into Veal Parmagian
Thanks so much for your insightful post....there is so much people DO NOT know...and I'm so sick of hearing trash about "those Peta people"...every organization has it's "bad apples"...even the RED CROSS...a world renown organization has it's crazies and ass.oles...you don't hear people (in the masses) going around saying "Those G..damned crazy Red Cross fools..."
THANK YOU.
Edit To Add: Even though you didn't author this post, I still thank you very much for posting it
angeldust
Active member
Quote:
Ugh there's so much cruel stuff that goes on in slaughterhouses it sickens me to think about. I got my mom started on eating vegan candy, she was eating skittles one day and she was like MMMM these are so good!! and i was like yeah, horses are sure yummy! it sucks that we cant get vegan skittles out here, because sometimes i miss them.
have you read The Meat You Eat by Ken Midkiff, its more environmentally geared but i seriously recommend it.
<333
| Originally Posted by YvetteJeannine
Also, another fact about the Dairy industry some people don't know, don't care, or don't want to think about; they are the SINGLE BIGGEST SUPPORTERS/PRODUCERS of the VEAL industry. Every lil' bitty male cow that gets born immediately gets ripped away (crying) from it's mother (NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO SUCKLE FIRST) so it can be turned into Veal Parmagian
|
Ugh there's so much cruel stuff that goes on in slaughterhouses it sickens me to think about. I got my mom started on eating vegan candy, she was eating skittles one day and she was like MMMM these are so good!! and i was like yeah, horses are sure yummy! it sucks that we cant get vegan skittles out here, because sometimes i miss them.
have you read The Meat You Eat by Ken Midkiff, its more environmentally geared but i seriously recommend it.
