Wal-Mart

[Shimmer]

*shrug*
If you say so.
I have to disagree.
When you live in an area without realistic options, and it's walmart, or drive 110 miles roundtrip so you can save $ on a loaf of bread or buy your kids' school clothes...*shrug* You do what you have to.

You see it your way, and that's fine, but I'll continue to see it mine, if it's all the same.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady_MAC Seriously meant to quote on this one, not thank. Anyway, the way I see it, the poor are being exploited. Although shopping at Wal-mart and supporting this corporate swine may go against all that one believes it, do you really think the poorest of the poor will be able to pay and extra $5 on maybe a pack of diapers? This is part of the reason why I believe Wal-mart is going to be safe from large scale boycotts.

I dont think the poor are being exploited, more like, there are a LOT more poor people who would rather spend that extra $5.00 on something else, and Walmart enables that.

Just because they dont offer health care, and put business that can't compete out of business, doesn't make them bad. If anything, Walmart can create new opportunities in small towns, that wasn't previously there.

Think about it...

b4 Walmart, Family A has no Disposable monthly income after paying fixed expenses of X (like rent or mortgage, utilities, gas, and food, etc).

Walmart comes in...

Walmarts prices on certain fixed expense items (food (if they offer that at your store), new clothes when needed, whatever) are lower than the prices currently offered in your towns.

The M&P stores that offer the same items Walmart does go out of business because they can't compete with Walmart global supply. Those same fixed expense items cost Y.

Now every family in that town now has X-Y in disposible income every month, but still purchased the same amount of items they did b4 Walmart came to town.

This creates new opportunities for M&P stores to provide items that Walmart doesn't carry (and i'm sure there are plenty of them), since consumners have more money left to spend.

So now some girl who never had any money leftover after paying for her basic needs b4 Walmart, now has enough money every month to start buying MAC. Thanks Walmart.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmer *shrug* If you say so. I have to disagree. When you live in an area without realistic options, and it's walmart, or drive 110 miles roundtrip so you can save $ on a loaf of bread or buy your kids' school clothes...*shrug* You do what you have to. You see it your way, and that's fine, but I'll continue to see it mine, if it's all the same.

Why doesn't someone in your town take the initiative then, to offer a loaf of bread at a lower than Walmart price, since apparently it's happening elsewhere. They would probably take some business away from Walmart.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Why doesn't someone in your town take the initiative then, to offer a loaf of bread at a lower than Walmart price, since apparently it's happening elsewhere. They would probably take some business away from Walmart.

Because in order to sell it at a low price one must be able to purchase it at a low enough price (whatever "it" is...) and no small business owner can buy in the same quantities walmart does, therefore their purchase cost is higher, which means the consumer's purchase price is higher. If their purchase price is higher than walmart's, and that higher price is passed on to the consumer, the only way to draw said consumer into the store to purchase said "it" item is to lose money in the selling in HOPES that the customers will come in high enough numbers to drive WM out of business.
So, by the time WM is driven out of business by said M&P stores slitting their own throats, the M&Ps no longer have the ability to remain in business.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae I dont think the poor are being exploited, more like, there are a LOT more poor people who would rather spend that extra $5.00 on something else, and Walmart enables that. Just because they dont offer health care, and put business that can't compete out of business, doesn't make them bad. If anything, Walmart can create new opportunities in small towns, that wasn't previously there. Think about it... b4 Walmart, Family A has no Disposable monthly income after paying fixed expenses of X (like rent or mortgage, utilities, gas, and food, etc). Walmart comes in... Walmarts prices on certain fixed expense items (food (if they offer that at your store), new clothes when needed, whatever) are lower than the prices currently offered in your towns. The M&P stores that offer the same items Walmart does go out of business because they can't compete with Walmart global supply. Those same fixed expense items cost Y. Now every family in that town now has X-Y in disposible income every month, but still purchased the same amount of items they did b4 Walmart came to town. This creates new opportunities for M&P stores to provide items that Walmart doesn't carry (and i'm sure there are plenty of them), since consumners have more money left to spend. So now some girl who never had any money leftover after paying for her basic needs b4 Walmart, now has enough money every month to start buying MAC. Thanks Walmart.

That makes no sense.
I was about to expound on that statement but realized there's no real point. *shrug*

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmer That makes no sense.

Think of it this way...

You have 100 dollars a month to spend on items Walmart, or the M&P stores can provide..

Before Walmart you spend your 100 dollars at the M&P's, since thats all that is availible, and get:

2 new shirts, 1 for you, one for your kid: $25.00
Food for the both of you for the month: $50.00
Something else you buy every month: $25.00

Walmart comes to town with it's "Everyday Low Prices" and sells the EXACT same Food, Clothing, Whatever, only it's.

2 new shirts, 1 for you, one for your kid: $20.00
Food for the both of you for the month: $40.00
Something else you buy every month: $20.00

By shopping at Walmart, your Average shopper now has $20.00 dollars more to spend a month than she had before. And still has the exact same amount of things purchased.

Now she can choose where to spend that disposible income, AKA the $20.00 a month she didn't have the spend on her fixed expenses. She could save it, and have $40.00 to spend next month. She could buy $20.00 worth of things for her kid ever month that she couldn't offord b4. She could buy some new eyeshadow off MAC's website. Whatever.

The bottom line is, Walmart's low prices allow people to buy MORE for their money, and that's why people shop there.

How is that bad?

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmer I was about to expound on that statement but realized there's no real point. *shrug*

Please explain, i dont live in your small town. While i do dislike shopping at Walmart, I dont see why having a Walmart that provides lower prices than what was previously availible is inherantly bad. Given two identical items, most people arent going to pay for the more expensive one just because they can.

 

[Raerae]

I'll even go back to your original post...

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmer This is absolutely a travesty. Anyone who has ever worked for WM knows that what they do is WRONG. It is LITERALLY the company's practice that if bennies are offered at 34 hours then under absolutely NO circumstances is ANYONE other than management and employees who have been there upwards of 20 years to EVER work more than 30. The HR director at the WM I worked for was adamant about that. If you had to stay late on one day, you left early on another. They managed hours like misers and the whole point is that Bentonville (WM corporate) does NOT want to pay benefits to its employees.

At my job, if I'm scheduled for 9 hours, AKA 8am-5pm, I am forced to take a minimum of a 1 hour lunch. I also can't skip lunch and go home 1 hour earlier, as it is California State LAW, that all non exempt employees must have a minimum of a 30 minute lunch break for an 8 hour shift. I have to mark on my time sheet the time I left for Lunch, and the time I come back. if I come back b4 the lunch hour is up, I'm not allowed to start working. Why? Under absoluteley NO circumstances is ANYONE other than salary exempt management and certain approved employees allowed to work more than 40 hours a week. The HR director at the company I work for is adamant about that. If you have to stay late on one day, you leave early on the next. They manage hours like misers and the whole point is that my company does not want to pay overtime to it's employees, or get sued for not complying with CA laws on mandatory lunch and breaks for non exempt employees.

Quote:

NOR does it want to pay more than a certain amount in a town. It both sets the standard for the income level in small towns and holds it there...e.g. the small town I'm from. Walmart starts out at 6.10 an hour...and that's the best paying job you're going to find in that area without driving all across hell's half acre to get to it. Once you DO drive you're lucky to hit 8 dollars an hour. With the cost of gas, it's not WORTH it.

How is this bad? If they are paying the highest wage in your Town, why is this a problem? You were getting paid less b4 Walmart came to town.

Quote:

WM is terrible for small business. Mom and Pop grocers EVERYWHERE get shut downbecause of walmart's undercutting and price matching.

That the fault of consumners wanting the lowest price, not Walmart. Or do you like paying more for things than you have too?

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I hate walmart passionately.

I do too, only for different reasons.

 

[joytheobscure]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemurian Medicaid is a great program, but an abused one. It's true that the problems with health care stem from the privatization of it -- drug companies drive the industry, and they PROFIT from people being ill. Medical doctors in this country aren't educated in simple nutrition, which IMO is the root cause of all illness in this country. Which brings us to the Food Stamps program, which has come a long way in the past few years, allowing the funds to be used at local farmer's markets, which is a whole lot healthier and smarter than spending at the local Pak'n'Save or whatever, even if the dollars don't go as far. Furthermore, to stay on topic, Wal-Mart is making an effort to stock more and more natural and organic foods, including fresh (sometimes even local) produce! Which is a huge leap forward for those families who live in the boonies and wouldn't otherwise have access to nutritious whole foods, thanks to the now utterly corrupt Ag industry. I also have to say, it is funny to me to hear the above complaints about programs like Medicaid and Food Stamps, because as far as the rest of the world is concerned, these programs are jokes -- they don't go nearly far enough to solve the problem of poverty and ill health. France, for instance, is a broke-ass socialist state, but at least its citizens enjoy good health and a relatively high quality of life. Some may argue that that is what matters most, and I wouldn't disagree. But it's all relative, I guess... presuming that most of us are of the middle class, we get burned the most via taxes in the long run... I can certainly understand the bitterness

I know some farmers up in Kansas who wouldn't like the ag industry to be called corrupt, that is a place totally run by agriculture if there wasn't dept. of ag it would die out op there. I think there are so many problems with the system in this country that needs to be addressed but as usual domestic issues are on the back burner.

I get frustrated because I've jumped from poverty (you know earned income credit) to seeing nice chunks of taxes coming out and not understanding how people make it... You know I guess my gripe isn't with federal taxes I live in a state with very high state taxes and too much government. Walmart aims at the lower middle class and the people in poverty but really if you are really poor, garage sales and thrift shops are where clothes come from - goodwill is too expensive nowadays for some..... and dollar tree and dollar general/family dollar is where other necessities come from. I really do shop at walmart for groceries because mom and pop stores are too high and household goods I go to walmart because its 12 miles away.. but I will go to mom and pop groceries or other chain grocery stores for meats (too high at walmart ) and buy my kids clothes at Kmart/Target or off the sale racks at the mall-- but some people can't spend the time or the gas to try to find other places, believe me walmart is a convenience.

I think as a society our drive to spend and have more is still there, but we are certainly not where we were with the mobility of a class system. Our generation will not live better than our parents. (supposedly)....

As far as medical the poor will go to the doctor-(medicaid) the middle class without insurance will not. I have a friend whose family makes good money close to 100,000 a year scared to death of anything happening.

Nutrition, well I was raised on fried foods and fattening foods, I cook homemade meals, and I'm working on those green veggies--... but I think being raised a southerner in a old fashioned household your attitude on "health" is warped. I think the schools should practice what they preach but big business has taken over school lunches too and they just serve crap.. except in Zuni New Mexico where they have fruit and veggie grants to serve fresh healthy meals to students. yet another non walmart related soapbox of mine... :::stepping down::::

 

[Hawkeye]

I hate medicaid. I hate our tax system.

You know there is a new "revolution" if you will (if you have seen my siggy below!) of the fair tax. I'm a huge supporter of it and I have the book, done my research and it basically is an idea HR-25 in the house that abolishes the IRS, and you can go from very low income to a middle class because the taxes are pretty much evened out.

I can't adequately explain this (because it would take so long and you ladies would hate seeing my mile long posts by the time I was done! hehe!) but I think all the girls on here should go and have a look see and think about it. I know many are really pushing for it and the only way this can get done is at the "grass roots" because the politicians think we are stupid (and the sad part is-they are right we would rather watch TV and American Idol than to see the travesties that go on in our political realm).

So anyway thats my rant on taxation an dthe US government. LOL
Here are some sites for those who are interested and if you want write your congressman/woman and read the books and read all you can on the info to make an informed decision.

Click around see what you can see-
Neal Boortz & John Linder really ran with this idea-they already had a ralley in ATL where they turned away 4,500 (I think?) people because the place was packed:
http://580wdbo.com/event_guide/fairtax/index.html
The book to look through it:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/006...128647?ie=UTF8
http://fairtaxgroups.com/
http://www.fairtax.org/

What is the FairTax plan?
The FairTax plan is a comprehensive proposal that replaces all federal income and payroll taxes with an integrated approach including a progressive national retail sales tax, a rebate to ensure no American pays federal taxes up to the poverty level, dollar-for-dollar revenue neutrality, and the repeal of the 16th Amendment. This non-partisan legislation (HR 25/S 25) abolishes all federal personal, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, self-employment, and corporate taxes and replaces them all with one simple, visible, federal retail sales tax – collected by existing state sales tax authorities. The FairTax taxes us only on what we choose to spend, not on what we earn. It does not raise any more or less revenue; it is designed to be revenue neutral. So it is also cost neutral – the final cost for goods and services changes little under the FairTax. The FairTax is a fair, efficient, transparent, and intelligent solution to the frustration and inequity of our current tax system.

eh its something to click around and look through

 

[Janice]

youbeabitch - It's OT, but thank you for bringing up Fair Tax and linking to the information on it and where to buy the book. Educate yourselves!

side note - Love Neal Boortz, listen to his show all the time on AM.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae How is this bad? If they are paying the highest wage in your Town, why is this a problem? You were getting paid less b4 Walmart came to town. That the fault of consumners wanting the lowest price, not Walmart. Or do you like paying more for things than you have too?

*sigh*

Never mind.

As I stated before I don't agree with you, your logic is not logical to me because it's unrealistic, you don't agree with me, my logic is lost on you, and really, I don't give enough of a flip to work to change your mind.

edit:
A recent study by researchers at the UC Berkeley's Labor Center has quantified what happened to retail wages when Wal-Mart set up shop, drawing on 15 years of data on actual store openings. The study found that Wal-Mart drives down wages in urban areas, with an annual loss of at least $3 billion dollars in earnings for retail workers

• A study of small and rural towns in Iowa showed lost sales for local businesses ranging from -17.2% in small towns to -61.4% in rural areas, amounting to a total dollar loss of $2.46 BILLION over a 13-year period.

• In Iowa, retail businesses in several categories experienced a decline of up to 59% over a 13-year period.

– Source Kenneth Stone, "Impact of the Wal-Mart Phenomenon on Rural Communities In Iowa", University of Iowa, 1997


• In Mississippi, local food stores in counties hosting a Wal-Mart supercenter lost sales of up to 17 percent over 5 years

• For every gain in sales by a Supercenter, there are corresponding losses in sales for local and/or family businesses

– Source: "The Economic Impact of Wal-Mart Supercenters on Existing Businesses in Mississippi", University of Iowa, 2003.

 

[Shimmer]

Another article on WM's business practices and how detrimental they can be.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmer A recent study by researchers at the UC Berkeley's Labor Center has quantified what happened to retail wages when Wal-Mart set up shop, drawing on 15 years of data on actual store openings. The study found that Wal-Mart drives down wages in urban areas, with an annual loss of at least $3 billion dollars in earnings for retail workers

I'm curious how this happens. The only thing I can think of is that people used to work for M&P stores that paid them more than the state minimum wage, and in order to do so, they passed that "expense" of a higher wage, onto the customer. Wheras walmart passes that expanse onto the worker, by paying a lower wage, and lowering the price on goods.

Quote:

• A study of small and rural towns in Iowa showed lost sales for local businesses ranging from -17.2% in small towns to -61.4% in rural areas, amounting to a total dollar loss of $2.46 BILLION over a 13-year period. • In Iowa, retail businesses in several categories experienced a decline of up to 59% over a 13-year period. – Source Kenneth Stone, "Impact of the Wal-Mart Phenomenon on Rural Communities In Iowa", University of Iowa, 1997 • In Mississippi, local food stores in counties hosting a Wal-Mart supercenter lost sales of up to 17 percent over 5 years • For every gain in sales by a Supercenter, there are corresponding losses in sales for local and/or family businesses – Source: "The Economic Impact of Wal-Mart Supercenters on Existing Businesses in Mississippi", University of Iowa, 2003.

That stuff is obvious, it's just basic competition, and not necessarily bad.

Quote:

As I stated before I don't agree with you, your logic is not logical to me because it's unrealistic, you don't agree with me, my logic is lost on you, and really, I don't give enough of a flip to work to change your mind.

I wasn't trying to change your mind or argue with you, I was merely interested into learning more about a subject that doesn't seem to effect where I'm living. As well as drawing parallel's to other companies that do the exact same things, only on a smaller scale. Since the idea of cutting expenses to be as low as possible, and in turn having the lowest prices, isn't exactly genius.

I'd be really curious to know how much Walmart actually makes per sale of an item in their stores, since it's probably not much. They just have so many stores that all those pennies add up.

I'm just wondering what it's so "bad" where you live, but "just another store" where I'm at. In reality I've only recently encountered more Walmarts, and only because I've moved to the city where the poverty rate it much higher than where I lived before.

Question.

We have them all over the place, and they often come in with lower prices than Walmart, and almost everywhere else.

Dont you have little M&P .99 cent stores? There must be 2 of them every block where I'm living.

 

[Hawkeye]

Janice-Boortz is my hero! Another man who I think is astounding in his talks and everything is Herman Caine. He is absolutely amazing! He blows normal people out of the water! He gave a speech at the Fairtax rally in ATL and I had the opprotunity to be there and there was fire-th electricity the charisma in that man-I hear you could hear it through the radio!

Every woman(and men!) on this board need to check this out =) If you want I can start a brand new thread about the fair tax?

 

[electrostars]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Why doesn't someone in your town take the initiative then, to offer a loaf of bread at a lower than Walmart price, since apparently it's happening elsewhere. They would probably take some business away from Walmart.

Because they can't!
Smaller stores DON'T GET products for the cheaper costs like Wal-mart does. So if a smaller store would lower their price to wal-mart's, they'd be losing money.

 

[Shimmer]

No, there aren't any M&P .99 stores in that area nor are there reasonable alternatives within a reasonable driving distance.

Given that the area is one of the more rural counties in NE texas the impact is substantially different than in an area where the population is more dense.

 

[electrostars]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Think of it this way... You have 100 dollars a month to spend on items Walmart, or the M&P stores can provide.. Before Walmart you spend your 100 dollars at the M&P's, since thats all that is availible, and get: 2 new shirts, 1 for you, one for your kid: $25.00 Food for the both of you for the month: $50.00 Something else you buy every month: $25.00 Walmart comes to town with it's "Everyday Low Prices" and sells the EXACT same Food, Clothing, Whatever, only it's. 2 new shirts, 1 for you, one for your kid: $20.00 Food for the both of you for the month: $40.00 Something else you buy every month: $20.00 By shopping at Walmart, your Average shopper now has $20.00 dollars more to spend a month than she had before. And still has the exact same amount of things purchased. Now she can choose where to spend that disposible income, AKA the $20.00 a month she didn't have the spend on her fixed expenses. She could save it, and have $40.00 to spend next month. She could buy $20.00 worth of things for her kid ever month that she couldn't offord b4. She could buy some new eyeshadow off MAC's website. Whatever. The bottom line is, Walmart's low prices allow people to buy MORE for their money, and that's why people shop there. How is that bad?

Just because you save $20 doesn't mean it's worth it. You generally GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR, especially it comes to buying the JUNK wal-mart sells.

Also,
If this person is worrying about money and only has $100 a month to spend..she really shouldn't be buying MAC, she should be saving her $20 a month that she's "saving" so that she can give her kid a better christmas(or birthday or whatever).

 

[electrostars]

Most wal-marts are moving OUT of the city limits so they don't have to pay taxes..so you have to drive a little farther to "save"..


The town that is about 6 miles north of where I lived was the first town that I know of in this area to have a wal-mart..and it's been there for as long as I can remember. They just built a super-walmart down the road and moved out of the city limit(to get away from paying TAXES) and now it offers groceries..
According to my auntie who lives in that town..she went shopping there to check it out..and she said the fresh food was DISGUSTING. I guess the produce was bad..and I don't remember whatelse she had said was disappointing.. So if you want to save 20¢ a lb on tomatoes, you go ahead and dig through those 26086 rotting tomatoes to get to some good ones. MM that is what I call appetizing.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by electrostars Just because you save $20 doesn't mean it's worth it. You generally GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR, especially it comes to buying the JUNK wal-mart sells.

People shopping at Walmart probably dont have the money to buy higher quality things. Not to mention for many people, having the "best" isn't whats important, it's just having something. And if having a $50.00 DVD player allows them to rent and watch DVD's when they couldn't before, it's an improvement on their quality of life. Or they can't offord to buy an I-Pod, but if they save a month or 2, they can get a Walmart-Pod for their kids birthday.

Walmart doesn't target people with money, they target the majority, the lower and lower-middle class.

Or they dont care.

I can cite 1 example of the 1 and only time I've purchased something from Walmart.

S-Video cable for my DVD player for like $5.00. Why did I go to Walmart? Because i knew it would probably be the place to find the cheapest S-Video cable around. I didn't but it for quality. I bought it because my cat has a habit of eating S-Video cables if I forget to unplug them from my DVD player and put them away. So i dont bother buying the 15-20 dollar cables anymore. Because in all honesty, I dont notice the difference in quality, and my cat has already eatend 5 cables, he'll prolly eat another one.

Quote:

Also, If this person is worrying about money and only has $100 a month to spend..she really shouldn't be buying MAC, she should be saving her $20 a month that she's "saving" so that she can give her kid a better christmas(or birthday or whatever).

the 100 a month was a extremely simplified analogy that your nitpicking. You can add a 0 if you want, and really breakdown the costs of living in your area, but I didn't think that was really necessary, as math scales.