What do you think...?

[DropDeadDarling]

Do you think there's a difference in not believing in God and being so angry with Him that you just kind of block Him?

What do you think of this:

Quote:

He ain't the leavin' kind He'd never walk away Even from those who don't believe And wanna leave him behind He ain't the leavin' kind

Do you think that's true?

 

[Hawkeye]

There is a definate difference. When you don't believe in God then you are flat out saying-I dont believe in him and here is why I don't believe in him etc. It's a rational thought and when you get down deep there is no emotion involved.

For Example: I give you a rock and tell you the Rock possesses magical powers that will take you to MARS. Do you believe it? No not really because there is no proof behind the statement and you run scientific tests on it and though there is proof you still have your doubts.

Now to be so angry you block him thats a different story. That's when you just sort of ignore him-you know hes there but you just ignore it and choose not to pay attention.

For Example: You and your friend had a huge argument that is clearly a friendship ender. You get infuriated with your friend and then you just ignore them. No matter what they do you ignore them because it will upset you.

That's the difference.

One is more scientifically and rationally based while the other is more emotionally based.

Now as for the quote-isnt that a song?
I agree with it to an extent.
I dont think God would ever leave anyone-people say that but he doesn't. You keep pushing him away yet he won't move. Its just how he is. Can't explain it. He's always there for you.

BUT, even if you keep pushing him away if he needs something done (assuming this is what he does) and he asks you to do it-and your still pushing him away, chances are your opprotunity is out the door and he's offering that same opprotunity to someone else.

EX: You go in to a job interview you find out the one who is interviewing you is your friend you had a big fight with and you get up and walk out the door. Where as your friend had wanted to make up with you and was wanting to offer you 3x the amount you were making. you blew the chance.

So a lot of it comes down to the personal choices each person makes.

You know God is a very fascinating being whether he exists or he doesn't. I believe he does. But there are so many different charactoristics he supposidly has that are listed in many different documents (Torah, Bible (Old Testiment and New), Quran) and even with thoughts of Chi and even in native american lore and wicca.

 

[koolmnbv]

I think that was a beautiful logical explanation youbeabitch!

 

[dmolinet]

Which God?
Whose God?

I think we would need to get these facts straight first.

 

[Hawkeye]

Now thats a good point. A very good point actually.

This being we refer to as God seems to change very much not just between religoin to religion but also from culture to culture from person to person.

 

[DropDeadDarling]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmolinet Which God? Whose God? I think we would need to get these facts straight first.

Just like, the Christian God? Haha. The Jesus one?

youbeabitch- Thanks, that really helped alot.

 

[Life In Return]

In what God do you believe ? God or a god ? Just wanted to know before I go into detail answering your question

 

[Another Janice!]

I am a Christian.

I have been mad at God many times.

I have to believe in him to be mad at him.

 

[LisaR]

Just by virtue of the fact that you're angry at Him leads me to think that you do believe in Him - regardless of what God or higher being your worship.

 

[Raerae]

I dont know if there is a god or not.

I've seen devout worshipers (every sunday, holiday, special day, etc since like forever) stop caring about church when their loved one of 56 years passes away from the same disease that the religious right is blocking medical stem cell research on.

I've seen kids who were smothered into religion when they were young, lash out against it when they were older and finally cut free from the religious supression of expierence forced upon them by their parents.

I've also seen those who had devoted all of their life to their God, even as far as to start studying to enter the ministry because they felt the call of God, only to turn from it and go the completely opposit direction.

I've also seen the most unlikely people find peace in a church on Sunday morning. Sharing a moment with others who come form very different worlds, brought together by their beliefs.

I'm sure their is more.

Personally I belive in being a good person, and that truly what goes around comes around. Whether that is the result of a higher power, or just the randomness of the universe, I dont really know. Or really care heh.

I'm sure we could debate untill the cows come home the pros and cons of religion, wherever your living. But ultimateley whether you believe or not, it's what's in your heart thats important.

 

[Hawkeye]

exactly. God-if he is there-doesnt look at actions etc and how much you moan and groan and whine etc. people can be good actors. its all about the heart.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbeabitch people can be good actors.

Haha... reminds me of all the times i've been fake to someone's face, and then talked down about them when they aren't around lol... Gotta be nice to everyone yah know! LOL

 

[Hawkeye]

LOLOL
Oh yeah I love watching it. I had a friend who was the worlds best actress I swear to GOd this chick shoulda gotten an academy award for some of the shit she pulled and got away with. She never could figure out how I knew. But you know takes one to know one I guess

 

[Eoraptor]

There's a definite difference. To claim otherwise is insulting, as it's denying atheists integrity. Saying that no matter what we claim, in reality we can't escape believing in your god. I may think religions are crazy, but at least I grant the religious the ability to believe in whatever they claim. Note it's possibly even more insulting to non-Christians than to atheists, since it's not only denying their inegrity, but also claiming their faith is due to anger. I think you'd have a hard time justifying someone who is part of a inherantly peaceful religion like Buddhism is actually just angry at God.

It's also insulting to atheists (or at least to me), because I pride myself on my rationality. That's perhaps the biggest reason atheists exist. We just don't value faith- we value logic, reason, science, etc. instead. And yet being angry at God to the point of ignoring Him would be incredibly irrational if we truly believed He existed. I mean, He would be our only hope for salvation, so surely being on His good side would be paramount. Furthermore, He would know we hated Him (since He's omniscient), and it would serve no purpose (since He cannot be harmed or guilt-tripped). And maybe you could spite Him by not following His rules for several decades, but He'll win in the end by sending you to eternal suffering. No, not a rational choice at all....

Edit: After rereading my post, I wanted to make it clear that I'm not saying I was insulted by you, TexasMixtape, since you were merely asking the question.

 

[Life In Return]

I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. It takes a WHOLE lot to believe there is no God. Forreal.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life In Return I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. It takes a WHOLE lot to believe there is no God. Forreal.

Whats hard about not believing in their God? And I'm going to assume you mean the God the Christians, Jews, and Muslims believe in.

Realistically I see most faiths as the greatest business opportunity ever capitalized upon. And I'm amazed more people dont see it that way in todays day and age. I mean seriously, what a great "product" your selling, "After Death Insurance" and there is no way to verify 100% that is does exist, and equally no way to verify 100% that it doesn't exist. And in the process your making lots of $$$, and have incredible power w/out really having to do much of anything, other than tell people what they already know.

Be a good person! All the bad stuff that happens in life is just God testing your faith, so dont complain (even though as the church we live in luxury on your donations)! Dont hurt anyone! Be faithful! Blah blah blah.

Doesn't take a genius to know whats right from wrong. And then on the way lets justify thousands of years of treating women poorly.

Feel free to marginalize women as Men are obviously gods Chosen since man, "Adam" was created first and woman, "eve" was created from man, "Adams rib". And Women ruined everything for man by comitting the original sin, and must carry that sin with them forever. Blah blah blah blah. Lets teach young girls that sex is sinful and they should hate their bodies (meanwhile lets glorify the same for Men, teaching them is OK!).

So yeh... Tell me again why I need this?

I'd rather spend my life living in the moment, doing whats right, and not worry about a huge, "what if," supporting an institution that is responsible for everything that is wrong with this country today. Organized religions of war (any religion that cannot co-exist with another peacefully, AKA you believe in my religion or go to hell) are the root of SO MANY problems in the world today.

 

[Life In Return]

I don't have faith to be an atheist because truly it takes a WHOLE lot of faith to believe there is no God. It takes a LOT of faith to even exist, breathe, live in this world, look at the beauty of nature, the complexity of it all - people, animals, plants, look at the sky, the water, LIFE, and think there is no God. It takes extreme faith to think there is no God...

And interestingly enough... I have found that most atheists tend to be angry... for what reason ? Why so angry ? And also - the Christian God and Muslim God are not the same.

And you say you'd rather spend your life basically doing what you want to do - exactly. Most people would, so to acknowledge there is a GOD means that you would have to die to yourself and your own desires, which most people don't want to do....

 

[Raerae]

YAY religious debates! lol... FYI dont take any of this personal =P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life In Return I don't have faith to be an atheist because truly it takes a WHOLE lot of faith to believe there is no God. It takes a LOT of faith to even exist, breathe, live in this world, look at the beauty of nature, the complexity of it all - people, animals, plants, look at the sky, the water, LIFE, and think there is no God. It takes extreme faith to think there is no God...

IMHO it doesn't really take any faith at all to think that through complete random chance, anything is possible (maybe not probable), but possible. Just look back through history at the countless times that religion has been proved wrong, and how they have had to directly alter the premis of their beliefs based upon discoveries in science that forced them to change their ideology. Or is the Earth still the center of the Universe? Considering how many stars and planet are out there, it would be an amazing waste of space to think that Planet Earth is the only planet that has life. Thats just human ego a work.

Quote:

And interestingly enough... I have found that most atheists tend to be angry... for what reason ? Why so angry ?

I'm not angry, just pointing out all the negative impacts that the religions of war have had upon the world. Granted they have done a lot of good as well, but at what price? How many more people must die or suffer in the name of God? Not to mention, chances are those "good" things would have happened anyways, because I believe that people are by nature, good hearted. So if humans are by nature good, then Religion brings out the worst in us, as the good deeds done by religion would have happened anyways because it's human nature.

Quote:

And also - the Christian God and Muslim God are not the same.

You sure on that? From all accounts of what I have studied on the subject, all three religions at their CORE (not the peverted extremes that are present on all 3 sides) worship the same god, the God of Abraham. And they are essentially arguing semantics over what parts of the faith that they choose to acknowledge as divine. Not to mention it's only natural that over time, religions that share the same general roots would seem more and more distinct as they build up their faith around the sections that they believe to be the most true.

Saying that the Muslin God and Christian god are different, is like saying the Jewish god is different than the Christian god because the Jews dont worship the holy triune and the Christian faith does.

Quote:

And you say you'd rather spend your life basically doing what you want to do - exactly. Most people would, so to acknowledge there is a GOD means that you would have to die to yourself and your own desires, which most people don't want to do....

Thats not what I said at all. All I said was believing in God or not doesn't influence my desire to be a good person. I just dont feel the need to follow an institution that has done at least as much wrong as it has done good, soley on the fear that I wont have a place in Heaven when I die. I mean c'mon, not more than a few hundred years ago if I was afraid I wasn't going to go to heaven I could make a donation to the church and be granted a spot in heaven. How convienent is that? Once again the rich wins in life and the afterlife, while the poor suffer in life and may not be guarenteed a spot in heaven since they can't afford it. Sound familiar? Only in the modern world there called Republicans =P LOL Sorry couldn't resist the political humor.

 

[Eoraptor]

Quote:

I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. It takes a WHOLE lot to believe there is no God.

It's funny when people don't understand the concept of faith. Claiming it takes faith to 'believe in' science or to be a skeptic....
The irony.

 

[Raerae]

Oh, and I never said I was an Atheist. I just dont believe in God. Not believing in God doesn't make you an Atheist.