What's the difference between constructive and non constructive criticism?
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TISH1124
Well-known member
Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD
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No one has to agree to post....However the rules state NON Constructive Criticism is Not Tolerated....So therefore if you have non constructive critiques or insults ...then yes, you should skip the thread and keep it moving....
What Amity wrote (highlighted) was rude and uncalled for. Sometimes in life it's better to be Nice than nasty...so if you don't like the look why is it necessary to let the OP know you don't like it or to hurt someone's feelings in such a negative manner? Unless people enjoy hurting others....I happen to not...so I am very careful in my critique when I give it and consider how it will come across. saying...I like your makeup technique....sounds fine....going the extra yard to say... I don't like the look, but great technique, IMO is unnecessary, why did all that need to be added.....Unless you are trying to make a point....Not saying that you said that ...but just stating the difference in the two statements and how they come across.
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Originally Posted by amity
Wow a lot of people here on this forum like to kiss up? You look very fake. You can tell you're wearing blush. You can tell you're wearing lip-liner and lipstick (cuz its diferent colors so it stands out and looks like a coloring-book drawing). You can tell you're eyebrows are filled in (they look painted on, not even filled in). Your eyeshadow is nice tho. Over all - this look does remind me of a clown too. I think the woman meant that you are wearing so much NOTICEABLE makeup that it just looks bad over all. 
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| Originally Posted by Kels823
Question (and maybe I'm in the wrong forum but since it was addressed in this thread) - Why is it okay for people to comment about what they like but not about what they don't like? I can understand being upset if it's done in a rude way. But if I were to say, 'I don't necessarily like the overall look, but your technique is great', should I keep that to myself? I guess I don't see why everyone either has to agree or not post at all. |
No one has to agree to post....However the rules state NON Constructive Criticism is Not Tolerated....So therefore if you have non constructive critiques or insults ...then yes, you should skip the thread and keep it moving....
What Amity wrote (highlighted) was rude and uncalled for. Sometimes in life it's better to be Nice than nasty...so if you don't like the look why is it necessary to let the OP know you don't like it or to hurt someone's feelings in such a negative manner? Unless people enjoy hurting others....I happen to not...so I am very careful in my critique when I give it and consider how it will come across. saying...I like your makeup technique....sounds fine....going the extra yard to say... I don't like the look, but great technique, IMO is unnecessary, why did all that need to be added.....Unless you are trying to make a point....Not saying that you said that ...but just stating the difference in the two statements and how they come across.
amity
Member
Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD
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The people on this forum have an artistic skill with makeup. For me? I have an artistic skill with drawing.
If I had someone say,
"I don't like the way you colored in the face, it makes the person look (dead, sick, bad). I think that you shouldn't have used purple paper to draw on. I also don't like how you left some white spaces when you colored. Over all, this drawing of yours looks pretty bad."
I would take into consideration what they said -> Because it will help me improve! How will you ever improve your artistic talent when you always get GOOD comments? How will you know what to improve on, if nobody tells you what looks bad?
If I have mascara running down my face and none of my friends tell me, and I'm walking around all day with a big black streak, that is pretty embarassing. The same concept applies to this situation. If I am wearing makeup that only takes away from my beauty rather than enhancing it, well, I would like to know!
If someone gave me constructive criticism, EVEN THO it MAY be a bit rude, I will get past the rudeness of it and try to take in what the person said... because if I use their advice, it will only make ME more talented in the end.
So before you guys go ranting and raving and talking like you've known me for who I am all my life... get past the fact that me, out of 99.9% of the people on this board don't like this woman's FOTD. I am in no way saying that she is a shitty makeup artist, I am saying that I just don't like THIS SPECIFIC work of art.
Just like sometimes people don't like certain pieces of art I do. Do I make a big deal and call them sociopaths? NO. I ask them what looks bad and then I take it from there.
So go ahead and call me a sociopath. Say that I have no empathy. And accuse me of "pissing on the dreams of others". You have been dearly mistaken if thats who you guys think I am.
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| Originally Posted by Kels823
Question (and maybe I'm in the wrong forum but since it was addressed in this thread) - Why is it okay for people to comment about what they like but not about what they don't like? I can understand being upset if it's done in a rude way. But if I were to say, 'I don't necessarily like the overall look, but your technique is great', should I keep that to myself? I guess I don't see why everyone either has to agree or not post at all. |
The people on this forum have an artistic skill with makeup. For me? I have an artistic skill with drawing.
If I had someone say,
"I don't like the way you colored in the face, it makes the person look (dead, sick, bad). I think that you shouldn't have used purple paper to draw on. I also don't like how you left some white spaces when you colored. Over all, this drawing of yours looks pretty bad."
I would take into consideration what they said -> Because it will help me improve! How will you ever improve your artistic talent when you always get GOOD comments? How will you know what to improve on, if nobody tells you what looks bad?
If I have mascara running down my face and none of my friends tell me, and I'm walking around all day with a big black streak, that is pretty embarassing. The same concept applies to this situation. If I am wearing makeup that only takes away from my beauty rather than enhancing it, well, I would like to know!
If someone gave me constructive criticism, EVEN THO it MAY be a bit rude, I will get past the rudeness of it and try to take in what the person said... because if I use their advice, it will only make ME more talented in the end.
So before you guys go ranting and raving and talking like you've known me for who I am all my life... get past the fact that me, out of 99.9% of the people on this board don't like this woman's FOTD. I am in no way saying that she is a shitty makeup artist, I am saying that I just don't like THIS SPECIFIC work of art.
Just like sometimes people don't like certain pieces of art I do. Do I make a big deal and call them sociopaths? NO. I ask them what looks bad and then I take it from there.
So go ahead and call me a sociopath. Say that I have no empathy. And accuse me of "pissing on the dreams of others". You have been dearly mistaken if thats who you guys think I am.
TISH1124
Well-known member
Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD
There are ways to say things...and maybe you have no life or educated experience in knowing that....
If I go to the doctor.....I have Cancer and will probably die .... I do not expect to hear....
I can't help you ...you are gonna die...get over it...Treatments won't help...Too bad this has happened to you...But your friends are right ...you're gonna die. Please pay on your way out and make sure to pick out a casket soon....and be prepared to loose you hair and look a mess
I expect to hear
I am so sorry but yes you do have Cancer and the chances are we cannot treat it successfully...But please do not give up hope. I will do everything I can to make you comfortable and try and help you fight this disease. In the mean time it may be best if you start to get your plans in order in case we are unsuccessful.
You see AMITY...there is a difference between TACT and TACKY....Honestly which category do you feel your comments feel under. Grow up and realize it is not what you say BUT how you say it.
There are ways to say things...and maybe you have no life or educated experience in knowing that....
If I go to the doctor.....I have Cancer and will probably die .... I do not expect to hear....
I can't help you ...you are gonna die...get over it...Treatments won't help...Too bad this has happened to you...But your friends are right ...you're gonna die. Please pay on your way out and make sure to pick out a casket soon....and be prepared to loose you hair and look a mess
I expect to hear
I am so sorry but yes you do have Cancer and the chances are we cannot treat it successfully...But please do not give up hope. I will do everything I can to make you comfortable and try and help you fight this disease. In the mean time it may be best if you start to get your plans in order in case we are unsuccessful.
You see AMITY...there is a difference between TACT and TACKY....Honestly which category do you feel your comments feel under. Grow up and realize it is not what you say BUT how you say it.
Kels823
Well-known member
Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD
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It's unnecessary in your opinion, but it's not against any forum rules, correct?
If I post a thread saying 'Someone said I look like [insert condescending character] what do you think', then you respond 'I don't like the look but the technique is great' you would be answering my question, no?
I completely understand why you all are upset with the manner in which the criticism was posted. In most social settings, the tone of that particular post was rude.
However I don't understand the consensus that we have to post kudos or keep it moving.
Seems alil passive aggressive, IMHO.
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| Originally Posted by TISH1127
No one has to agree to post....However the rules state NON Constructive Criticism is Not Tolerated....So therefore if you have non constructive critiques or insults ...then yes, you should skip the thread and keep it moving.... ......saying...I like your makeup technique....sounds fine....going the extra yard to say... I don't like the look, but great technique, IMO is unnecessary, why did all that need to be added |
It's unnecessary in your opinion, but it's not against any forum rules, correct?
If I post a thread saying 'Someone said I look like [insert condescending character] what do you think', then you respond 'I don't like the look but the technique is great' you would be answering my question, no?
I completely understand why you all are upset with the manner in which the criticism was posted. In most social settings, the tone of that particular post was rude.
However I don't understand the consensus that we have to post kudos or keep it moving.
Seems alil passive aggressive, IMHO.
Kels823
Well-known member
Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD
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I understand your instict to defend your friend (the OP). But can we really compare makeup application preference to cancer?
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| Originally Posted by TISH1127
There are ways to say things...and maybe you have no life or educated experience in knowing that.... If I go to the doctor.....I have Cancer and will probably die .... I do not expect to hear.... I can't help you ...you are gonna die...get over it...Treatments won't help...Too bad this has happened to you...But your friends are right ...you're gonna die. Please pay on your way out and make sure to pick out a casket soon....and be prepared to loose you hair and look a mess I expect to hear I am so sorry but yes you do have Cancer and the chances are we cannot treat it successfully...But please do not give up hope. I will do everything I can to make you comfortable and try and help you fight this disease. In the mean time it may be best if you start to get your plans in order in case we are unsuccessful. You see AMITY...there is a difference between TACT and TACKY....Honestly which category do you feel your comments feel under. Grow up and realize it is not what you say BUT how you say it. |
I understand your instict to defend your friend (the OP). But can we really compare makeup application preference to cancer?
User67
Well-known member
Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD
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I work as a make-up artist, so I do different looks every day. The day posted this FOTD I was doing something more dramatic. I KNOW that my lipliner was obvious, that was how I wanted it to be. I KNOW my eyebrows looked drawn on. That's because they ARE drawn on, I don't have real eyebrows. Everything you "critiqued" in the pic was done on purpose because that is how I wanted to look that day. I'm not trying to improve on the look because nothing I did was an accident, it was all done purposely. The day after this I did very soft eyes, neutral blush & matte red lips. I change it up each day & even if you see something you don't like. I'm not going to improve on it because it's all done purposely. Someone else said they would have worn less blush, well most people would. However, I am big on blush & I wear more of it than the regular person or even MU artists. I know it looks like a lot & that is how I want it to look. I have been doing make-up for several years & I know what I like. Even if everyone doesn't agree with it. So for future reference, if you want to tell me that my eyeliner is too thick or my lipliner is too obvious. Don't bother, I already know & that's how I want it. I'm aware of everything that is going on with my face.
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| Originally Posted by amity
The people on this forum have an artistic skill with makeup. For me? I have an artistic skill with drawing. If I had someone say, "I don't like the way you colored in the face, it makes the person look (dead, sick, bad). I think that you shouldn't have used purple paper to draw on. I also don't like how you left some white spaces when you colored. Over all, this drawing of yours looks pretty bad." I would take into consideration what they said -> Because it will help me improve! How will you ever improve your artistic talent when you always get GOOD comments? How will you know what to improve on, if nobody tells you what looks bad? If I have mascara running down my face and none of my friends tell me, and I'm walking around all day with a big black streak, that is pretty embarassing. The same concept applies to this situation. If I am wearing makeup that only takes away from my beauty rather than enhancing it, well, I would like to know! If someone gave me constructive criticism, EVEN THO it MAY be a bit rude, I will get past the rudeness of it and try to take in what the person said... because if I use their advice, it will only make ME more talented in the end. So before you guys go ranting and raving and talking like you've known me for who I am all my life... get past the fact that me, out of 99.9% of the people on this board don't like this woman's FOTD. I am in no way saying that she is a shitty makeup artist, I am saying that I just don't like THIS SPECIFIC work of art. Just like sometimes people don't like certain pieces of art I do. Do I make a big deal and call them sociopaths? NO. I ask them what looks bad and then I take it from there. So go ahead and call me a sociopath. Say that I have no empathy. And accuse me of "pissing on the dreams of others". You have been dearly mistaken if thats who you guys think I am. |
I work as a make-up artist, so I do different looks every day. The day posted this FOTD I was doing something more dramatic. I KNOW that my lipliner was obvious, that was how I wanted it to be. I KNOW my eyebrows looked drawn on. That's because they ARE drawn on, I don't have real eyebrows. Everything you "critiqued" in the pic was done on purpose because that is how I wanted to look that day. I'm not trying to improve on the look because nothing I did was an accident, it was all done purposely. The day after this I did very soft eyes, neutral blush & matte red lips. I change it up each day & even if you see something you don't like. I'm not going to improve on it because it's all done purposely. Someone else said they would have worn less blush, well most people would. However, I am big on blush & I wear more of it than the regular person or even MU artists. I know it looks like a lot & that is how I want it to look. I have been doing make-up for several years & I know what I like. Even if everyone doesn't agree with it. So for future reference, if you want to tell me that my eyeliner is too thick or my lipliner is too obvious. Don't bother, I already know & that's how I want it. I'm aware of everything that is going on with my face.
MACLovin
Well-known member
Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD
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I don't think its fair to Nyla to have her thread closed just because of a rude, tactless individual.. people should still be able to comment on her look if they want.
However, perhaps the debate over the way certain members conduct themselves when commenting should have its own thread if people want to defend their right to be caustic and non-constructive. I don't see why it's so difficult to comprehend that if you're just spouting negative BS you may as well just shut it.
but i guess some will never learn.
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| Originally Posted by nunu
I think this thread should be closed. Specktra isn't a place for personal attacks. |
I don't think its fair to Nyla to have her thread closed just because of a rude, tactless individual.. people should still be able to comment on her look if they want.
However, perhaps the debate over the way certain members conduct themselves when commenting should have its own thread if people want to defend their right to be caustic and non-constructive. I don't see why it's so difficult to comprehend that if you're just spouting negative BS you may as well just shut it.
User67
Well-known member
Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD
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I don't think she was comparing them. She was giving an example of the right way to say something negative.
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| Originally Posted by Kels823
I understand your instict to defend your friend (the OP). But can we really compare makeup application preference to cancer? |
I don't think she was comparing them. She was giving an example of the right way to say something negative.
TISH1124
Well-known member
Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD
Quote:
Lets get one thing clear I have never met or talked to Nyla outside of this post...So it is not about defending a friend...it is about right from wrong...and to answer your question....This is clearly posted on the FOTD forum by the Specktra Staff
Share your FOTD with the lovely ladies & gents of Specktra. Note: Non-constructive criticism is not tolerated by staff.
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| Originally Posted by Kels823
I understand your instict to defend your friend (the OP). But can we really compare makeup application preference to cancer? |
Lets get one thing clear I have never met or talked to Nyla outside of this post...So it is not about defending a friend...it is about right from wrong...and to answer your question....This is clearly posted on the FOTD forum by the Specktra Staff
Share your FOTD with the lovely ladies & gents of Specktra. Note: Non-constructive criticism is not tolerated by staff.
User67
Well-known member
Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD
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I totally agree.
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| Originally Posted by MACLovin
I don't think its fair to Nyla to have her thread closed just because of a rude, tactless individual.. people should still be able to comment on her look if they want. However, perhaps the debate over the way certain members conduct themselves when commenting should have its own thread if people want to defend their right to be caustic and non-constructive. I don't see why it's so difficult to comprehend that if you're just spouting negative BS you may as well just shut it.
|
I totally agree.
Shimmer
Well-known member
Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD
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It's perfectly okay to make suggestions like
"I think this look would be far more flattering with a more toned down blush."
or
"Maybe next time not take the wing out so far on your liner?"
or
"It might be time for a new mascara, that one looks like it's clumping on you a little."
Those things are PERFECTLY OKAY, and if the OP takes offense to them, it's on the OP because no offense was intended, clearly.
But it's not okay to say "Jesus woman. Did you just pick the blush palette up and rub it all over your f ace?"
or
"Hmmm. Amy Winehouse much?"
or
"Damn spiders be runnin' cross yo face!"
BIG difference.
The first, I'm okay (as moderator) with.
The second, I'll shut that shit down as soon as I find out about it.
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| Originally Posted by Kels823
Question (and maybe I'm in the wrong forum but since it was addressed in this thread) - Why is it okay for people to comment about what they like but not about what they don't like? I can understand being upset if it's done in a rude way. But if I were to say, 'I don't necessarily like the overall look, but your technique is great', should I keep that to myself? I guess I don't see why everyone either has to agree or not post at all. |
It's perfectly okay to make suggestions like
"I think this look would be far more flattering with a more toned down blush."
or
"Maybe next time not take the wing out so far on your liner?"
or
"It might be time for a new mascara, that one looks like it's clumping on you a little."
Those things are PERFECTLY OKAY, and if the OP takes offense to them, it's on the OP because no offense was intended, clearly.
But it's not okay to say "Jesus woman. Did you just pick the blush palette up and rub it all over your f ace?"
or
"Hmmm. Amy Winehouse much?"
or
"Damn spiders be runnin' cross yo face!"
BIG difference.
The first, I'm okay (as moderator) with.
The second, I'll shut that shit down as soon as I find out about it.
Kels823
Well-known member
Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD
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Thank you both for responding.
Maybe my posts are unclear or my verbage isn't succinct. So I'll leave the topic alone.
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| Originally Posted by Nyla2120
I don't think she was comparing them. She was giving an example of the right way to say something negative. |
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| Originally Posted by TISH1127
Lets get one thing clear I have never met or talked to Nyla outside of this post...So it is not about defending a friend...it is about right from wrong...and to answer your question....This is clearly posted on the FOTD forum by the Specktra Staff Share your FOTD with the lovely ladies & gents of Specktra. Note: Non-constructive criticism is not tolerated by staff. |
Thank you both for responding.
Maybe my posts are unclear or my verbage isn't succinct. So I'll leave the topic alone.
Kels823
Well-known member
Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD
Quote:
Thanks for responding, Shimmer.
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| Originally Posted by Shimmer
It's perfectly okay to make suggestions like "I think this look would be far more flattering with a more toned down blush." or "Maybe next time not take the wing out so far on your liner?" or "It might be time for a new mascara, that one looks like it's clumping on you a little." Those things are PERFECTLY OKAY, and if the OP takes offense to them, it's on the OP because no offense was intended, clearly. But it's not okay to say "Jesus woman. Did you just pick the blush palette up and rub it all over your f ace?" or "Hmmm. Amy Winehouse much?" or "Damn spiders be runnin' cross yo face!" BIG difference. The first, I'm okay (as moderator) with. The second, I'll shut that shit down as soon as I find out about it. |
Thanks for responding, Shimmer.
TISH1124
Well-known member
This seperate thread was a great idea.....
Now people who might not be aware can see how words can be encouraging and how they can be also unnecessarily harsh and intentionally hurtful!!!
Once spoken the long term damage or hurt can never be taken back...that is why it is always wise to think before speaking
Thanks Jaime!!!!
Now people who might not be aware can see how words can be encouraging and how they can be also unnecessarily harsh and intentionally hurtful!!!
Once spoken the long term damage or hurt can never be taken back...that is why it is always wise to think before speaking
Thanks Jaime!!!!
