Women from Polygamist sect

[V15U4L_3RR0R]

Ok moment of silliness aside, I do think it is sad. Being brainwashed like that for generations is a crazy thing as is the abuse that stems from it. I have no problem with Polygamy in the slightest though. It's a brainwashing, the rape and the incest that bothers me.

I have nothing particularly against Mormons. I'm sure most of them are very nice people and would give you their last buck to help you. I have nothing against Islam either since it was mentioned. They do what's right by them in their society which happens to be different from ours. Doesn't make it right or wrong to me.

(For the record, the above is not a pissed off statement, just my emotionless opinion and nothing more)

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAC_Whore Incoming pissed-off comments in, wait....wait for it.....3...2...1... (you know they're coming, right?)

I'd say I apologized that my view is offensive, but I would be lying. There's nothing empowering about defeminization and desexualization of women, in any religion.
And, if it's done for the women's protection, as the male (and many female) segment would claim, then really...shouldn't the focus be on the males who aren't strong enough to ignore their little head when it says 'hey pounce on her because she showed her ankle'? really, who's the weaker gender in that siuation?

 

[athena123]

Quote:

Originally Posted by V15U4L_3RR0R I have nothing particularly against Mormons. I'm sure most of them are very nice people and would give you their last buck to help you. I have nothing against Islam either since it was mentioned. They do what's right by them in their society which happens to be different from ours. Doesn't make it right or wrong to me. (For the record, the above is not a pissed off statement, just my emotionless opinion and nothing more)

Visual, I'm not taking this as a pissed off statement at all. I don't have anything against the people; I've known some very kind practitioners of islam and mormons. It's their religion I have a very, very, very, hard time with.

Any religion that seeks to restrict women from direct revelation with their god or sticks women in a submissive role because of the whole adam and eve thing simply isn't worthy of me. As a whole, women really get a bad rap from many religions; islam and mormonism in particular. We're held to blame for men's inability to control their wicks.

 

[V15U4L_3RR0R]

I don't particularly disagree with you. Middle Eastern society is very different from ours is my point and I don't think it's right to judge a society by your own standards even though it's a perfectly natural and instinctive thing to do. They do what's right by them.

(And yes I realise how my argument can be turned against me but it doesn't change my opinion)

However back on the topic, I do feel sad for these women and I've been hearing a lot of people calling these women stupid and ugly etc etc which does piss me off because these women aren't stupid.

 

[MAC_Whore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer I'd say I apologized that my view is offensive, but I would be lying. There's nothing empowering about defeminization and desexualization of women, in any religion. And, if it's done for the women's protection, as the male (and many female) segment would claim, then really...shouldn't the focus be on the males who aren't strong enough to ignore their little head when it says 'hey pounce on her because she showed her ankle'? really, who's the weaker gender in that siuation?

Agreed. I was just being a wisenheimer in that your comment is bound to stir up someone. Everyone can toss in their .02 here, pissed off or not.

 

[athena123]

Visual, we'll agree to disagree on the way middle eastern women are raised. I'll allow that we shouldn't judge other societies by our standards up to a certain point. But when that line is crossed, moral relativism is merely a cop out.

Some things are wrong, no matter where you're raised, which country you live in, when you live, how you live, what your gender/race or who you pray to. Anytime force is used to enslave another being, it's wrong.

Women are brought up to be sexual slaves and servants to men all over the world. It's a great and terrible wrong. A god may strike me down for saying this and I'll still know I'm in the right. But then perhaps I've just been "brainwashed" by the western world and the concept of free will and the inherent value we're all born with is just an illusion.

 

[V15U4L_3RR0R]

Well we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

The rest really depends on your Philosophical point of view and which Philosopher you agree with.

 

[*Stargazer*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by athena123 Some things are wrong, no matter where you're raised, which country you live in, when you live, how you live, what your gender/race or who you pray to.

I couldn't agree more. I don't for one second believe that you can excuse immoral behaviour by saying it's cultural.

 

[V15U4L_3RR0R]

Well like I said, I guess it comes down to what you believe and that's fine by me.

 

[athena123]

Quote:

Originally Posted by V15U4L_3RR0R Well we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. The rest really depends on your Philosophical point of view and which Philosopher you agree with.

True --- I really don't know whether I'm a moral relativist or an absolutist. I've yet to find any system of thought, be it philosophy or religion that truly answers all my questions. I see a lot of shades and nuances of gray; in that sense, I could be a moral relativist.

Yet I've been able to come up with one moral absolute that can apply to all humans, no matter who/where/what/when/why/how. It's never ok to initiate force against another. The key phrase being INITIATE FORCE. Self defense is a form of force, but it's a reaction to a wrong done. Coming up with a universal principle would seem to place me in the absolutist camp. But since I do see and appreciate shades of gray, I don't think I can come down completely on the side of moral absolutism either. Many things are more than a black/white issue.

Which makes me an moral absolutist/relativist?

I dunno, I'll have to see if I can come up with something a little more catchy.

 

[V15U4L_3RR0R]

There's always a third option and that's a combo of the two. Can't remember what the proper name for that sort of thing is but I can always go look it up and add to this comment later when I've finished working.

 

[NutMeg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by athena123 I don't have it in me to make fun of their dresses, lack of makeup or unibrow, I just don't. These women are truly victims, but unlike many victims in today's world, they don't even KNOW they're victims because they've been raised in an extremely secluded and insular society for generations. They dress the way they dress because that's the way it's always been. There is no TV, fashion magazines or any outside sources coming into their homes from our "gentile" world. For those who are putting them down for their appearance when they don't know any other way, how about showing some compassion for these women and the children they bear? I was raised around mormon beliefs. I'm very glad it never took. I realize these sects are an extreme mormon sect, but the fundamental beliefs between the LDS and the FLDS are still the same. They're both highly patriarchal theologies put in place by MEN to keep WOMEN in their place.

Thanks for being so clear about that athena. I know it had been mentioned before in the thread, but I find it so upsetting that in the face of such a serious issue some people can only find it within themselves to comment on the appearance of the women involved. I don't have a lot else to say right now (I'll probably post again later), but I'm glad someone directed the thread in a more relevant direction.

 

[shadowaddict]

Whoever said it you are right, for the most part mormons are very family involved and very nice people. I think the problem is that there have been over 3,900 changes in the Book of Mormon since it was first published. There have been so many changes of thought and since their prophet has revelations straight from God and so therefore speaks for Him, then with each new prophet changes are made. I also for myself do not think you have to tithe at least 10% of your gross income to get to heaven or as with mormons the highest level of heaven. I honestly think that most regular mormons do not know the true doctrine of the church as it goes back to Freemasons. Joseph Smith copied much of the symbols, temple ceremonies and such straight from Freemasonry after he joined. There are also many documents that only the highest level of the church administration has seen and is locked away in a vault because they contain documentation of contradictions in what members are told. There is much hidden from the regular members. I also see the missionaries as a marketing tool to gather more members as their "lessons" change with society to be more agreeable with the general public. When Joseph Smith announced his candidacy for president of the US in 1844 (as well as Brigham Young later) he wanted Mormons to take over the country and then I guess the world.

Sorry, I don't mean to sound like I'm some kind of expert or know-it-all. I don't want to come across that way at all. This is just something I've spent a lot of time studying and reading about. I got pulled in by a boyfriend at 16 and then at 18 was baptised Mormon but I never truely believed and so when we broke up I never went back. I'm now 45 and for the last several years have taken an interest in learning about the history. I'm not sure why, maybe to figure out why I was so easily pulled into something I really didn't believe. I guess this is why I try to understand and have compassion for how and why people get sucked into cults before they even realize what is going on. But if you're born into it you don't stand much of a chance.

 

[Jenna_x]

I read an article about this a few months back, it's so sad but good that they did a raid.

 

[CantAffordMAC]

I want to apologize for my rude comment I made earlier...I didn't really know how deep this goes. i've been following the story on Nancy Grace for the past 2 nights and it really is sad....

It scares me. Because its like a whole different world. But yet its right here in the US. I really do apologize for making a mean comment on their appearance. Its a shame that these people cannot be helped....I can't imagine being so brainwashed. This is all they know.

 

[CantAffordMAC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowaddict Sorry, I don't mean to sound like I'm some kind of expert or know-it-all. I don't want to come across that way at all. This is just something I've spent a lot of time studying and reading about. I got pulled in by a boyfriend at 16 and then at 18 was baptised Mormon but I never truely believed and so when we broke up I never went back. I'm now 45 and for the last several years have taken an interest in learning about the history. I'm not sure why, maybe to figure out why I was so easily pulled into something I really didn't believe. I guess this is why I try to understand and have compassion for how and why people get sucked into cults before they even realize what is going on. But if you're born into it you don't stand much of a chance.

You don't sound like a know-it-all. You're very helpful and informative. Thanks for giving us so much information to learn from...because honestly, I would have never even known.

 

[lipstickandhate]

The exact same thing goes on throughout the Middle East, Africa, South Asia, and even in various American and Western European cities and everyone just says "Leave them alone! It's their religion, their choice and we just don't understand!"

I'm amused that the main stream media and many individual people are not so understanding and accepting when its going on in their own back yard.