2008 Presidential Candidates Comparison ( Side By side)... DOn't know what to think.

[Dizzy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by missworld Not nice, maybe but then again neither are Palin's beliefs. She has gone on record stating her personal belief that abortion is not an option even in cases of incest and rape, hence the context of the quote in the clip. That's her personal belief fine, if she starts appoint justices to the supreme court based on there concurrence with that belief very not fine!

SC nominees must be approved through the Senate. Fundamentalists of any sort are normally kept from the bench as long as we elect sensible senators. Seriously, Senators want to keep their jobs, they won't let the Prez (no matter WHO wins) elect someone who is radical, especially after some of the loonies they've allowed onto the bench. Checks and balances.

Quote:

She as stated on record, she does not support Roe v. Wade. She and her views belong in the dark ages.Was the video demeaning to women? It would have been if she had not based large elements of her campaign on her Hockey Momness!!! If anything she is setting women's rights back and she would like to set them back more!!!

Just because she doesn't support something doesn't mean she has the power to change it. Think about it- just because someone doesn't support something doesn't mean they're going to do anything about it. Example: I don't politically support the congressman I intern for, yet I don't bring the public's attention to some of his more idiotic policies.

Remember: the first job of a politician is to *keep* their job. The second is to keep their peers (NOT their constituencies) happy in order to maintain power. Altering Roe v. Wade in any way shape or form would mean that potential legislation in a Democrat controlled Congress would take forever and a day to get to the floor. And then it might not recieve the support it needs. They won't shoot themselves in the foot over a (relatively) small case like abortion; not when we're facing the worst economic crisis since the 20s, have an overstretched and underfunded military, and while we're beginning to face a huge demographic shift that might push us over the edge (think Babyboomers + retirement - SocSec = millions of unhappy people who vote in record numbers!). It'd be career suicide.

Think pragmatically. What they say on the campaign trail NEVER matches the reality of the situation once they're in office. Promises aren't contracts: take words for what they're worth.

 

[lizardprincesa]

I knew the Flame of this thread still Flickered in our Hearts and Minds, in all its complexity...
I wondered when it would begin again.
I don't usually like humor which makes fun of people.
Sometimes I don't get it (but I do *get* this one)
& other times, I feel sad when somebody is attacked. No...make that, 99% of the time, or *more,* I hate seeing anybody attacked for his/her Beliefs.
BUT...
​

Quote:

Originally Posted by missworld Not nice, maybe but then again neither are Palin's beliefs.

I admit to laughing at the video, (I found it difficult not to laugh)
but I don't think Palin's Beliefs are "nice," either.

I do *not* like all the anger & negativity here, including yours, missworld, but I almost always seem to agree with your message.

Quote:

She has gone on record stating her personal belief that abortion is not an option even in cases of incest and rape, hence the context of the quote in the clip. That's her personal belief fine, if she starts appoint justices to the supreme court based on there concurrence with that belief very not fine! She as stated on record, she does not support Roe v. Wade. She and her views belong in the dark ages.

Exactly what I was thinking! For the record, I don't believe in abortion for myself, but I really do not feel I'm in the position to judge what other people decide is best in their individual cases.
I most definitely do not believe the government, on any level, has the right to decide what women can and cannot do with their bodies!!!!!!!

Quote:

Was the video demeaning to women? It would have been if she had not based large elements of her campaign on her Hockey Momness!!!

I'm sick of hearing about her "Hockey Momness!!!" I think she uses her stock phrases anywhere she can...

Does anybody remember "Ted" in a late 90's episode of "Buffy" ?
I really seriously think she might be a robot or a product of advanced CGI...I almost hope so.

I was about to say to you again, missworld, please stop showing so much anger....but I'm taking a look at myself, and the below is *True*:

Quote:

If anything she is setting women's rights back and she would like to set them back more!!!

YES! You're correct!!!

I've never used the angry smileys before.
do I dare even post this? Oh, why not?! Who knows how Long I get to have this Life.

Peace and Love to *all*.....

xxxxCherylFaithxxxx
​

 

[SparklingWaves]

As someone who lost a dear friend from suicide, she was 13 & pregnant. Due to the way she took her precious life, I was unable to attend her funeral and it haunts me to this day. I know darn well about the importance of Roe Vs Wade. Abortion rights is not what I am referring to in this.

I must be doing a horrible job here explaining this specific point. I am trying to explain that she is a female and so are we. Correct? Therefore, what is allowed to be directed at her (everything - even rape/incest) will and can be directed at us as females. There are differences. Men do not have to take on a shredder down to uselessness of just being an object of rape or rape of children. Does anyone understand what I am saying?

Let me be clear. If Obama's wife were running for office and this trash of rape and incest were being brought up as a joke directed at her family, I would be on it like wild fire too. I think this is totally disrespectful of women and children.

BTW- If Palin wants to go on that SNL, that's her decision. I learned about the SNL episode from the news.

 

[TISH1124]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SparklingWaves Does anyone understand what I am saying? Let me be clear. If Obama's wife were running for office and this trash of rape and incest were being brought up as a joke directed at her family, I would be on it like wild fire too. I think this is totally disrespectful of women and children. BTW- If Palin wants to go on that SNL, that's her decision. I learned about the SNL episode from the news.

I completely understand what you are saying...And I agree the SNL episodes are horrible...And if it was Michelle Obama or any other woman I would think it was horrible too...And I also would hope she would think it just as horrible and not support or rally in the laughter by going on the show that is totally making a Mock of her....and will probably do so when she appears tomorrow because that is what they do as it seems....and currently making fun of her has increased their viewer rating by 80%.

As Far as your BTW... You are 100% correct that was her Decision and Choice to make.
What I was saying is if she doesn't find it disrespectful by not appearing on the show..How is the public suppossed to jump to her defense. I know I surely would not be helping up their ratings by appearing on the show if this sort of disrespect had been specifically directed towards me and my family. It's kind of hard to feel bothered..when it APPEARS she is not.

 

[SparklingWaves]

It will be interesting. Maybe, she is only going to be on there for them based on certain criteria to address those attacks. Who knows? But, if it were me, there would most defiantly be a humorous skit written addressing those false allegations jokes.

You know. I don't need someone's balls to get a job done, but I can sure... Well, I better stop there. We are women. We don't have to take that ****.

 

[MAC_Whore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by missworld Not nice, maybe but then again neither are Palin's beliefs. ......

OK, so then it's OK to belittle her. Got it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by missworld ...........Was the video demeaning to women? It would have been if she had not based large elements of her campaign on her Hockey Momness!!! If anything she is setting women's rights back and she would like to set them back more!!! missworld who dislikes McCain's Campaign but Hates Palin's!

She isn't basing her campaign on "hockey momness". She used that term to describe the type of person she was. Matt Damon is basing her campaign on "hockey momness". Video: YouTube - Matt Damon Rips Sarah Palin Then again, in that same video, Matt says he thinks he'll probably never know about her. So that tells me he isn't capable or willing to bother to fully educate himself on both candidates. Sounds like the perfect guy to give advice.

The video shown in Kayteuk's post was deameaning to Palin specifically and probably other women with similar life choices. A woman should have the right to choose her lifestyle. If she calls herself any kind of mom ("hockey", "soccer", "devoted"), why is that OK to make fun of for the sake of a political race? You say you are concerned about women's rights, yet when Palin is belittled for her lifestyle choices as a woman, you don't mind, as you "hate" her campaign and don't like her ideas.

Good to know where you do and don't have double standards. Good to know you are OK with the concept of hatred towards something if someone holds different beliefs than your own.

 

[*Stargazer*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TISH1127 I know I surely would not be helping up their ratings by appearing on the show if this sort of disrespect had been specifically directed towards me and my family. It's kind of hard to feel bothered..when it APPEARS she is not.

She's kind of in a damned if she does/damned if she doesn't position, I think.

 

[MAC_Whore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Stargazer* She's kind of in a damned if she does/damned if she doesn't position, I think.

Ageed. Whether it's SNL, Meet the Press or the David Letterman Show (McCain knows about that), you really have no choice. Your goal as a candidate is exposure.

With SNL, it's also kind of along the lines of having to prove your worth and ideas to those who are doubting, mocking or questioning you.

 

[SparklingWaves]

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Stargazer* She's kind of in a damned if she does/damned if she doesn't position, I think.

I am still on my it's a woman issue. She is damned and it's alright to damn her as much as you want. There is nothing off limits.

What woman in our US history without a criminal background was the target of such unadulterated malicious evil?

Hillary caught Hell too, but this has been going into arenas that far surpass that war on her as a woman.

 

[lizardprincesa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SparklingWaves ... What woman in our US history without a criminal background was the target of such unadulterated malicious evil?

I believe you are absolutely correct, SparklingWaves...
but Palin *completely* brings all of the attacks onto herself.

Throughout history/herstory, women *have* been the targets of malicious evil....the women who come to my mind are all the women ever accused of witchcraft,
women who have been sold into various types of slavery...
many such occurrences are happening Today. 2008...
Crimes against women happen every Day throughout this world, &
many of these evils go unnoticed by a world distracted by fun, technology,
economic woes, war, etc...

I've found much of this segment of the 2008 Presidential thread a bit confusing...

(I'm sorry about what happened to the 13-yr-old girl, SparklingWaves. That's horrible.)

xxxxCherylFaithxxxx
​

 

[lizardprincesa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAC_Whore ... She isn't basing her campaign on "hockey momness". She used that term to describe the type of person she was.

missworld wrote (below) "... large elements of her campaign on her Hockey Momness!!!"
just to be clear....I know....semantics...

Quote:

Matt Damon is basing her campaign on "hockey momness". Video: YouTube - Matt Damon Rips Sarah Palin Then again, in that same video, Matt says he thinks he'll probably never know about her. So that tells me he isn't capable or willing to bother to fully educate himself on both candidates. Sounds like the perfect guy to give advice.

I really enjoyed that video. Thank you for posting it.

I believe Matt is afraid...I think he is saying *he thinks* we, the public, the American people, are not privy, and may never be privy, to all Palin is about, before she (ONLY hypothetically) takes office...
I *believe* he feels afraid of what she *has* let us know, as well as what she *hasn't* let us know...
and *yes,* this will *absolutely* apply to *Any* political candidate.

We never know it all until the person has been sworn into office.
I believe Matt expresses the fears of many people.

I am glad Kayteuk posted the video, as people need a catharsis. Palin brings humor into many of our Lives. Thank you, Governor Palin.

(Oh...Governor Palin, I applaud you for not aborting your truly special child.
I applaud you for carrying your angel to term. The rate of abortion of babies who *may* have Trisomy 21, based on tests which are fallible (& sometimes cause miscarriage) are about 90%!!
If such statistics continue, a group of *people* will die off.
Thank you, Governor Palin.

BUT...Senator Palin, please stop suggesting that government should *ever* have *anything* to do with what a woman chooses to do with her body.)


Quote:

Good to know where you do and don't have double standards. Good to know you are OK with the concept of hatred towards something if someone holds different beliefs than your own.

I don't think the poster actually expresses double standards. I think she is strongly in favour of the Democratic candidates. She does express herself in a strongly opinionated manner, but what passionate person doesn't, in one way or another.

Here, on this forum, we can work things out without killing each other.

Peace & Love to all, CherylFaith

 

[kimmy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizardprincesa I believe you are absolutely correct, SparklingWaves... but Palin *completely* brings all of the attacks onto herself.

because she doesn't have mainstream beliefs? then that same logic must justify persecuting the witches you mentioned, correct?

oh and ps. sarah palin isn't a senator, she's the governer of alaska.

 

[lizardprincesa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimmy oh and ps. sarah palin isn't a senator, she's the governer of alaska.

that was a big "Whoops" on my part!

Ever trying to write something while being screamed at by a 4- yr-old?

I shall go in and correct my "Senator" words now.

CherylFaith

 

[lizardprincesa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimmy because she doesn't have mainstream beliefs?

Whether or not her beliefs are "mainstream," Governor Palin advocates government judgement over what women can do with their bodies.
I'm unable support a position such as Palin's.

Quote:

then that same logic must justify persecuting the witches you mentioned, correct?

?????


Post 160....? I wrote about women who were "accused" of being witches...
so they were murdered.

Ever been to Salem, Mass.? I've stood in that graveyard.

Once more, I find this part of the 2008 Presidential thread confusing, with rampant gaps in ... logic?

Maybe I should ignore my child for awhile and focus more fully here...
or maybe *not*.

CherylFaith

 

[purrtykitty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizardprincesa I believe you are absolutely correct, SparklingWaves... but Palin *completely* brings all of the attacks onto herself.​

She brings it on herself...by putting forth her qualifications and ideas as to why she should be elected VP? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. What exactly would you have her do different? Should she just stand silent and look pretty?​

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizardprincesa Whether or not her beliefs are "mainstream," Governor Palin advocates government judgement over what women can do with their bodies. I'm unable support a position such as Palin's.

That's actually NOT what she advocates.
She and McCain advocate allowing the STATES to determine the position on abortion, not the FEDERAL government. Meaning that instead of having Big Papa Gov't in DC decide what we can or can't do, it's up to your state to make those decisions.

 

[lizardprincesa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer That's actually NOT what she advocates. She and McCain advocate allowing the STATES to determine the position on abortion, not the FEDERAL government.

I have argued that Palin advocates for *Government* to have a say in what we women do with our bodies. If I have stated "Federal" Government (I shall check that later, when I have more time),
I did not mean to.

Quote:

Meaning that instead of having Big Papa Gov't in DC decide what we can or can't do, it's up to your state to make those decisions.

Again....I cannot advocate *any* Government interference in what we choose to do with our bodies.

CherylFaith

 

[lizardprincesa]

Now it's time to watch/do an Elmo exercise DVD with my son.
Elmo is one Peaceful little guy.

If Obama weren't running, I just might write Elmo's name in when I go to vote.

xxxxCherylFaithxxxx
​

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizardprincesa I have argued that Palin advocates for *Government* to have a say in what we women do with our bodies. If I have stated "Federal" Government (I shall check that later, when I have more time), I did not mean to.

I understand that. However, there has to be a governing body to determine what procedures are and are not acceptable medical practice.
This particular procedure has been determined to be regulated by the federal government, where no other procedure is.
The position isn't that govt says 'you can't do this' the position is 'the federal government shouldn't have been the one to make this decision. The states should.'
If you don't want governmental involvement at all, then supporting a candidate who supports the decision for rvw is contradictory to your positions, isn't it?

Quote:

Again....I cannot advocate *any* Government interference in what we choose to do with our bodies. CherylFaith

Then at that point a provider has the ability to refuse a procedure based on personal preference, and faces no recrimination for doing so. Same with a hospital, pharmacy, etc.
The 'interference' you're speaking of mandates that standards of care be provided regardless of the provider's personal feelings, regardless of whether the 'interference' is at federal or state levels.

 

[lizardprincesa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer I understand that. However, there has to be a governing body to determine what procedures are and are not acceptable medical practice.

I feel the "governing body" should, ideally, be comprised of medical practitioners and patients,
*not* by (usually primarily male, but male or female)
government officials.
...

Quote:

If you don't want governmental involvement at all, then supporting a candidate who supports the decision for rvw is contradictory to your positions, isn't it?

No, Shimmer, it is not.

You are excellent at debate, and I am not, in this case, for reasons ranging from my priorities at this very moment, (my son wants my attention) to my lack of knowledge in some ares. BUT...

I would rather vote for a person who believes in individual's rights,
than for a person/people who would take us back to a time when abortion was illegal: "backstreet," & "dangerous,"
(2 of the more tame words which spring to my mind.)

Shimmer, I feel you simply want to argue, which is evident to all who follow us around this thread, whether they lurk, thank, or actually post.

I wish you no harm.
You will not intimidate me. We can disagree. "We're all monsters," as my 2nd choice candidate, Elmo, says. (Maybe if I run for election, I can be called, "The Monster Mom." or perhaps, "The Elmo Mom")

(Why do so few people post? Well, Specktra *is* mainly a forum for makeup discussion...But I cannot help imagining some people feel intimidated, especially when they might step on the toes of mods.
Mods are people, just like the rest of us.)

Social issues: Roe v. Wade a deal-breaker for McCain, Obama

By Matt Canham
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 10/17/2008 1044 AM MDT

"Abortion
Democrat Obama says he has personal reservations about abortion because of his Christian faith. And he also believes the government should work to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies. But he doesn't think the government should restrict the medical procedures available to women.
He backs abortion rights and doesn't want to see the landmark decision upholding legalized abortion - Roe v. Wade - overturned, nor does he support a constitutional amendment outlawing abortion. "
(link below)

Of course, I present the view of my candidate (as found all over the Internet, not simply in this one article.)
Of course, I will be biased. Politics is never objective, as it's about "people".

I must choose the person/people whose values *most* resound within me.


Social issues: Roe v. Wade a deal-breaker for McCain, Obama - Salt Lake Tribune


Go ahead & shoot holes in what I've written, what I have not answered you on...it's alright, as I have to go about my Day.

My views and what type of person I am are widely known in this tiny microcosm of the world. I needn't keep discussing them. I'm sure I will return, though, (so difficult to resist) but I have a Life besides here (as you do; I was not saying you don't, Shimmer.)

May our country be about equality, a celebration of diversity, a fabric of people from everywhere, a place people may look to and say, "The USA is a country of free, peaceful people." I am such a hippy; yes, I know.

Hope your Day is beautiful!

CherylFaith