2008 Presidential Candidates Comparison ( Side By side)... DOn't know what to think.

[MxAxC-_ATTACK]

A friend of mine had a kid, which is great, good for her, but she got on a few government programs, She called me one day and said she moved out of her parents house and has a new apartment and that I should come see it.
I did, the apartment itself was pretty standard for an apartment, then she tells me she only has to pay 89 dollars rent for it, wow, I also noticed that her cupboards and fridge were STOCKED to the brim with food, This girl also had no job , she told me if she got one she would have to pay more in rent .

Me on the other hand , barely scraping by, paying my share of 500 dollars a month for rent, having hardly ANYTHING to eat , mostly Rice or ramen on a daily basis, and I was working 40 hours a week!

By all means , Please take more money out of my check so she can afford to have 4 bags of ruffles potato chips and 5 gallons of apple juice and only pay 89 dollars rent ,In a town where rent is always well over 1,000 dollars a month... I'll just keep eating my Top Ramen and Rice, Like someone said, Its being "patriotic"

 

[glamdoll]

Kimmy, what I meant was just in a healthcare aspect. I am actually all about capitalism, and social darwinism. But in a matter of healthcare I don't think it should even be a question of who gets it or not. That is something SO basic! I have a co-worker who cannot work alot because of her condition, so one she doesnt get enough hours to pay for her meds and stuff, two she doesnt qualify for any healthcare for her condition. And it sucks that its that way.

And yeah, I agree a friend of mine received $7,000 in return for her taxes cus she has 2 kids but she isnt legally married. So my husband and I with one child, both in school and day care only got about a grand. barely. and it SUCKS! I agree. Trust me, I am not thrilled about paying more taxes, I feel its hard as it is, but we do reap benefits of this country and we should help get our nation out of debt.

And YES!! Drug test please! Or like home visits to make sure the people applying for aid actually need it. How messed up is it that I did have state insurance, then as soon as we got married (nothing major changed financially by the way) we were denied!! ugh.

It sucks that funds go to all the wrong places, and you know we do have the right to abolish and unfair and unjust government, WE the people hold that power, sadly no one will do anything about it, because they will give you more technology and stupid crap to entertain your mind while they do what they want.

Growing up my mom worked 3 jobs had 5 kids and we couldnt get any help, while my aunt had no job 2 kids and got good money. SO unfair that needs to be fixed. For real.

 

[SkylarV217]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer You know what I would like to see as a prerequisite for receiving aid? A drug test.

I agree so much with this, i can't formulate words to thank you that are strong enough.

 

[miss_cinday]

I think a few of you need to go find more information about our govt programs before judging.
I'm completely going off topic but I worked with an agency that provided Welfare recipients counseling and other services. They are required to either find a job, be in school, or volunteer to keep their aid. In our state they are required to do at least 32 hours of service or risk losing aid. You people act as if everyone who receives aid from the govt does nothin for what they are getting. I'm not saying everyone follows the rules but a majority of them do. Many of these people have families that have always lived in poverty (generational poverty), others may be at a time in their lives where they need extra support, many are disabled mentally or physically, and many other do not have the skills necessary to support themselves. Like I said before this doesnt apply to everyone but many people do need a lil assistance in order to survive. I do believe there are things that need to be changed with our programs, like having some kind of monitoring system for parents who only receive aid for their children to make sure it being used properly among many others, but I have worked with individuals who have used these programs to their greatest potential and gained employment that was enough to help them get off aid and support their families themselves.
My parents families also came here from another country and were on aid which enabled them to go to school and eventually get a good paying job.

 

[purrtykitty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by glamdoll I do think we should pay more taxes, and the mentality of ME for ME is what keeps this country the way it is. Every other nation like Canada, the UK that has universal healthcare arent communist, they arent being forced into anything, and it works out good for most people. How sad that the majority of our debt (our as in the citizens) is medical bills. That is something that shouldnt be a problem, that should be provided to us by our government. Has anyone seen the movie Sick-o? seriously how sad is it, that people are left to die for lack of payment.

As opposed to the people left to die waiting for surgery? Because the wait lists for doctors in Canada, UK and all those other countries is ridiculous. Anyone who gets prompt medical attention in those countries has private insurance, just like here in the US. What makes your think universal healthcare in the US will be any different? Would you mind waiting 6 mos. to a year for an annual physical, or 3-4 months for a bypass? That outcome is entirely possible under a universal healthcare system.

 

[glamdoll]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purrtykitty As opposed to the people left to die waiting for surgery? Because the wait lists for doctors in Canada, UK and all those other countries is ridiculous. Anyone who gets prompt medical attention in those countries has private insurance, just like here in the US. What makes your think universal healthcare in the US will be any different? Would you mind waiting 6 mos. to a year for an annual physical, or 3-4 months for a bypass? That outcome is entirely possible under a universal healthcare system.

Are you canadian? Do you know that the wait is that long for a fact? or did you get this from our biased media? That would probably happen in the beginning for the U.S because of how many people now have conditions that worsened. In other countries they do a lot of preventative medicines.
The wait is actually not as long as the news and all other biased sources make it seem. Of course they are using the scare tactic of "oh no you will wait this long for this and that" Well how about all the people dying right NOW for lack of insurance. People that get kicked out of hospitals because they cannot pay. Is that better in your opinion? Honestly.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by glamdoll Are you canadian? Do you know that the wait is that long for a fact? or did you get this from our biased media? That would probably happen in the beginning for the U.S because of how many people now have conditions that worsened. In other countries they do a lot of preventative medicines. The wait is actually not as long as the news and all other biased sources make it seem. Of course they are using the scare tactic of "oh no you will wait this long for this and that" Well how about all the people dying right NOW for lack of insurance. People that get kicked out of hospitals because they cannot pay. Is that better in your opinion? Honestly.

Um.
Where I live people don't get kicked out of hospitals, they get put on the indigent list and the hospital charges them on a sliding scale, if at all. :/

 

[purrtykitty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by glamdoll Are you canadian? Do you know that the wait is that long for a fact? or did you get this from our biased media? That would probably happen in the beginning for the U.S because of how many people now have conditions that worsened. In other countries they do a lot of preventative medicines. The wait is actually not as long as the news and all other biased sources make it seem. Of course they are using the scare tactic of "oh no you will wait this long for this and that" Well how about all the people dying right NOW for lack of insurance. People that get kicked out of hospitals because they cannot pay. Is that better in your opinion? Honestly.

No I live in the US, but my Healthcare Law class discussed the pitfalls of a universal healthcare system. All you have to go is Google the wait times for each of these countries and the averages will pop up. They're not pretty. You can even check out the wait times per procedure for some of the countries.

Why do you think healthcare costs are so high in this country? It's because those of us that do pay our bills are footing the costs for those that leave the hospitals high and dry. There's essentially a "healthcare" shrinkage cost that's driving costs up...in addition to the rampant Medicare/Medicaid fraud.

 

[MxAxC-_ATTACK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by miss_cinday I think a few of you need to go find more information about our govt programs before judging. I'm completely going off topic but I worked with an agency that provided Welfare recipients counseling and other services. They are required to either find a job, be in school, or volunteer to keep their aid. In our state they are required to do at least 32 hours of service or risk losing aid. You people act as if everyone who receives aid from the govt does nothin for what they are getting. I'm not saying everyone follows the rules but a majority of them do. Many of these people have families that have always lived in poverty (generational poverty), others may be at a time in their lives where they need extra support, many are disabled mentally or physically, and many other do not have the skills necessary to support themselves. Like I said before this doesnt apply to everyone but many people do need a lil assistance in order to survive. I do believe there are things that need to be changed with our programs, like having some kind of monitoring system for parents who only receive aid for their children to make sure it being used properly among many others, but I have worked with individuals who have used these programs to their greatest potential and gained employment that was enough to help them get off aid and support their families themselves. My parents families also came here from another country and were on aid which enabled them to go to school and eventually get a good paying job.

I am only going on what I witness first hand. I know there are TONS of loopholes in these programs, I realize some people use these programs as a starting block , but many do not. I see many people taking advantage of these programs. They aren't nearly monitored as closely as they should be.

I am sure that the Lady in front of me at the grocery store wearing tons of gold jewelry with freshly manicured acrylic nails, paying for all of her food with Food stamps, then paying 150 cash for a bunch of booze ,then proceeds to the parking lot where she jumps in a brand new Cadillac , is far from living in "poverty"

I am not saying these programs are bad, They are just managed badly , and are highly abused.

 

[kimmy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by miss_cinday I think a few of you need to go find more information about our govt programs before judging. I'm completely going off topic but I worked with an agency that provided Welfare recipients counseling and other services. They are required to either find a job, be in school, or volunteer to keep their aid. In our state they are required to do at least 32 hours of service or risk losing aid. You people act as if everyone who receives aid from the govt does nothin for what they are getting. I'm not saying everyone follows the rules but a majority of them do. Many of these people have families that have always lived in poverty (generational poverty), others may be at a time in their lives where they need extra support, many are disabled mentally or physically, and many other do not have the skills necessary to support themselves. Like I said before this doesnt apply to everyone but many people do need a lil assistance in order to survive. I do believe there are things that need to be changed with our programs, like having some kind of monitoring system for parents who only receive aid for their children to make sure it being used properly among many others, but I have worked with individuals who have used these programs to their greatest potential and gained employment that was enough to help them get off aid and support their families themselves. My parents families also came here from another country and were on aid which enabled them to go to school and eventually get a good paying job.

my mom was on welfare after divorcing my dad. she now works for the welfare office, i'm well aware of how the system is supposed to work. but how it works and how it's supposed to are two very, very different things. i'm going to have to disagree with the part where you say most of them follow the rules, at least where i'm at...because they don't. the welfare fraud rate here is astronomical.

macattack and i are from the same area, so she's seeing what i'm seeing around here as well. that's great if welfare is working in other places, but it sure as hell isn't working here in southern california.

 

[glamdoll]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purrtykitty No I live in the US, but my Healthcare Law class discussed the pitfalls of a universal healthcare system. All you have to go is Google the wait times for each of these countries and the averages will pop up. They're not pretty. You can even check out the wait times per procedure for some of the countries. Why do you think healthcare costs are so high in this country? It's because those of us that do pay our bills are footing the costs for those that leave the hospitals high and dry. There's essentially a "healthcare" shrinkage cost that's driving costs up...in addition to the rampant Medicare/Medicaid fraud.

The internet is actually not an unbiased source. Search engines just provide you w/ what you wrote in the "key words" it doesn't guarantee that its true or unbiased. I, for one do not rely on news that are filled with lies and meant to persuade me in a certain direction. I have directly asked people who LIVE there, and they asure me that they do not wait 9 months or very long if anything because there are many many clinics, hospitals and they aren't overrun with sick people. I asked someone in the UK and they said the same thing.

The issue is not who pays more, its that no one should be left without care. We should all just pay for it by taxes. How ridiculous is it that some people are deemed uninsurable because of past conditions. Well how the heck are they to get treatment if they cannot be insured, and do not have thousands of dollars for all the procedures? Is that fair? That seriously shouldn't even happen. People who work and still cant afford medicine, and yes Shimmer, sadly people here are turned away for lack of payment or insurance.

If anyone has watched sick-o you can see how in some cases it happens that they put them in a cab and dump them somewhere else. Is this the America you wanna live in? I sure as heck dont.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by glamdoll The internet is actually not an unbiased source. Search engines just provide you w/ what you wrote in the "key words" it doesn't guarantee that its true or unbiased. I, for one do not rely on news that are filled with lies and meant to persuade me in a certain direction. I have directly asked people who LIVE there, and they asure me that they do not wait 9 months or very long if anything because there are many many clinics, hospitals and they aren't overrun with sick people. I asked someone in the UK and they said the same thing.

That's odd. I've directly asked people who LIVE there and they've told me that the wait time to get a SLAP repair, or ACL replacement, or any other surgery is ridiculous.
Quote:

The issue is not who pays more, its that no one should be left without care. We should all just pay for it by taxes. How ridiculous is it that some people are deemed uninsurable because of past conditions. Well how the heck are they to get treatment if they cannot be insured, and do not have thousands of dollars for all the procedures? Is that fair? That seriously shouldn't even happen. People who work and still cant afford medicine, and yes Shimmer, sadly people here are turned away for lack of payment or insurance.

No, we should not pay it all by taxes. Are you willing to pay $8 for a gallon of gas? Are you willing to pay $25 for a six pack? Are you willing to have 65% of your check taken by the government for taxes? Because your wage isn't going to go up. Your cost of living will, but your wage won't go up nearly what your cost of living does.
Quote:

If anyone has watched sick-o you can see how in some cases it happens that they put them in a cab and dump them somewhere else. Is this the America you wanna live in? I sure as heck dont.

Please. Please. PLEASE. Do NOT consider Michael Moore a journalist, documentarian, or any other other legitimate source of news and information. The man is wacked out left wing liberal as a person gets and incapable of presenting information in anything but the MOST biased of tone.


YouTube - Immigration Gumballs

Totally worth watching. Look at the numbers he's talking about.

 

[MxAxC-_ATTACK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer That's odd. I've directly asked people who LIVE there and they've told me that the wait time to get a SLAP repair, or ACL replacement, or any other surgery is ridiculous.

A good friend of my mothers lives in Wales (UK) Her friend actually purchases his Own private health care. This is because the wait times are quite lengthy, Even trying to see a regular doctor asap is very difficult to do in some places while using the Universal health care.

I imagine he has to pay taxes on universal health care still, even though he purchases his own and never uses the Universal. I didn't ask him about that , so I don't know.

 

[glamdoll]

I wouldnt care to pay $8 a gallon of gas if we actually had fuel efficient cars. Thats why American cars arent sold anywhere else cus they're p.o.s cars. America is one of the top consumers of oil and we do have the cheapest.

Im not saying I want to, God knows I dont. There is just so much stuff that can be done to make this country a little better.

 

[*Stargazer*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by glamdoll I, for one do not rely on news that are filled with lies and meant to persuade me in a certain direction.

You know, like Michael Moore.



I think my mother, in the UK, waited for three months to get treatment started when it was discovered she has breast cancer. I know she also pays out of pocket for regular care because she can't ever get seen at an NHS clinic when she's sick.

 

[SkylarV217]

Have you taken a look at government funded and run health care ? I know in our state Tenncare is ridiculous look at the problems of Medicare and think twice if you want the Government running YOUR health care. We've have foster children for several years and they had to use Tenncare. We had a 2 month old strung out on Meth b/c of her mother and the standerd of care she received I wouldn't wish on the family pet!

 

[purrtykitty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by glamdoll The internet is actually not an unbiased source. Search engines just provide you w/ what you wrote in the "key words" it doesn't guarantee that its true or unbiased. I, for one do not rely on news that are filled with lies and meant to persuade me in a certain direction. I have directly asked people who LIVE there, and they asure me that they do not wait 9 months or very long if anything because there are many many clinics, hospitals and they aren't overrun with sick people. I asked someone in the UK and they said the same thing. The issue is not who pays more, its that no one should be left without care. We should all just pay for it by taxes. How ridiculous is it that some people are deemed uninsurable because of past conditions. Well how the heck are they to get treatment if they cannot be insured, and do not have thousands of dollars for all the procedures? Is that fair? That seriously shouldn't even happen. People who work and still cant afford medicine, and yes Shimmer, sadly people here are turned away for lack of payment or insurance. If anyone has watched sick-o you can see how in some cases it happens that they put them in a cab and dump them somewhere else. Is this the America you wanna live in? I sure as heck dont.

If you think the internet is biased, then why are you considering Michael Moore as a source?

The research I did was for a CLASS as part of an assignment...don't you think I'd make sure the source I used was an objective one? I do know how to do internet research and make sure the sources I am using are reputable ones. Yes, the internet is full of shit, but so is Michael Moore.

I wish I could remember the source I used before, but it was last year and I can't find my notes. I do recall that it was part of a study done by an education institution, however. Here is a source which will allow you to analyze European National Healthcare programs: European Observatory... - Country information. I particularly like the article which outlined how the UK is working on decreasing waiting times for patient referrals from 18 weeks to 7 weeks. I've never had to wait 7 weeks for a referral appointment. I hope the World Health Organization is a good enough source for you...it's from the internet, you know.

I'm tired of paying and paying for goverment programs that only seem to be frought with inefficiencies and fraud. Insurance companies are a business and they owe a duty to shareholders to turn a profit. Companies are not going to insure people who are going to cause losses. Is it unfortunate for those people - yes. Should we force companies to take losses just so everyone can have insurance - no. Why do so many seem to think that everyone is entitled to have insurance coverage? Entitlement programs are part of the problem with this country's excessive spending. I already pay enough in taxes for Medicare/Medicaid, Social Security, Welfare, etc...and I want the problems fixed with those programs before the government decides to create yet another inefficient, entitlement program.

 

[rbella]

Michael Moore is by far the most biased source you can ever reference. Typically, the person who takes issue with Fox News being used as a good source for information is the same person who believes that Michael Moore's musings are fact based and not at all his biased opinions.

Government funded healthcare would be one of the single biggest mistakes we could make. Drug companies will stop research b/c of lack of funding, you will no longer have the best surgeons/doctors available to you b/c they won't get paid and you will not be treated in an efficient manner. Yes, you might get that cold medicine for less money, but you sure as hell won't get a liver transplant should you need one.

 

[MxAxC-_ATTACK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by glamdoll I wouldnt care to pay $8 a gallon of gas if we actually had fuel efficient cars. Thats why American cars arent sold anywhere else cus they're p.o.s cars. America is one of the top consumers of oil and we do have the cheapest. Im not saying I want to, God knows I dont. There is just so much stuff that can be done to make this country a little better.

American Cars are sold all over the world. fyi.

I love my American car. My V-8 Engine gets 28 MPG . We had a v6 Toyota Solara (2008) and it only got 24.

 

[*Stargazer*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MxAxC-_ATTACK American Cars are sold all over the world. fyi.

And they sell well.

Quote:

Outside North America, GM’s sales grew 10 percent. The automaker reported exploding sales in emerging markets like Russia, where sales were up 34 percent in the second quarter, and China, where sales rose 14 percent. GM said that despite the tough sales environment in mature markets like the U.S. and Japan, it predicts industrywide global sales will rise 2.5 percent this year to a new record of 72 million vehicles

Toyota overtook GM in first-half world sales - Autos - MSNBC.com

This is the FIRST year GM will not be the world wide sales leader.