Are "we" safer?

[*Stargazer*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoona First I'd like to say that most Arabs are Muslim but most Muslims ARE NOT Arab. You can't look at a person and say "Oh they're Muslim!"

That, in a nutshell, is the major downfall of profiling as a security measure.

Brown people aren't all Muslim. Arabs aren't all Muslim. Increasing numbers of WHITES are Muslim converts and as some experts will tell you, recent converts tend to be the most fanatical and are increasingly becoming the new face of terror. Look to the recent London plot to know that women (with babies!!!!) are playing a growing role in terror.

Behavioral profiling is probably a better tactic and I think its a growing area in security.

On another note, I'm not sure that I agree with the notion that we are creating more "enemies." I think that people with hate in their hearts will hate without reason.

 

[Pushpa]

islam is the fastest growing religion particularly for young caucasian women i can't rem if the age grouping was 20-26 or 18-25 so excuse me for that

i think the media makes such a huge deal about new restrictions when flying and what not but i recently went to vegas (had a wonderful time ) at the canadian airports we were screened.. everyones bags were checked purses were looked over security was so tight...we land in vegas nothign was checked until they couldn't pronounce my last name then my purse was emptied out and looked through and they didn't even bother to trash my bottle of water i had just purchased i had to remind the airport security i shouldn't have a bottle of water...leaving vegas my friend had a lipgloss in her purse that they never saw...she hadn't noticed that she had a lipgloss until we landed back home and it got confiscated..(she didn't pack it intentionally just forgot to pack it with checked luggage)

i think hate has gotten stronger i for one do not feel any different prior to 9/11 i feel just as safe as i did before but i do feel at times that certain ppl give me the twice over and i am west indian for bigbirds sake

i don't think americans are creating enimies but i do feel that annoyance and anxiety is being escalated

just my 2 cents

and i don't mean to sound like a bitch even though i am sure some might see me this way but the way 9/11 is always brought up i feel like it is in a sense disrespectful...let ppl rest in peace...build a memorial and let it be...i am not in anyway saying forget what happened...i just feel (and this is just my personal opinion) that certain americans bring up 9/11 as a crutch and as an excuse...9/11 is being abused by the american gvt as an excuse for some of their absurd ideals...

i could go on but i am sure most of you wont read and it's time for lunch

 

[amoona]

First I'd like to say to Shimmer that you may have heard of it because you're in the military. (I believe I read that it was either you or your husband, or both in the military) The only mention I ever heard of that incident, in the American media, was once online saying that the girl was 25. I heard this story first, and in detail, through the Arabic media where the correctly reported that she was 15 years old. The only way those soldier could possibily be dealt with correct is if they're given the death penalty.

Also the whole thing about people in the US not blowing themselves up when they have family killed ... well look at your life. If you were born in the country of your parents and grandparents yet you had no home because it was destroied. Then you had to live in a refugee camp where your biggest fear is waking up tomorrow. When you do wake up it's to military bulldozers outside of your house. You watch your father killed, your brother put in jail (because he's at the "right age") and your mother left alone to try and do something to help you survivor. Live this life and tell me what you'd do. These "terrorists" are a result of oppression, paid for by the US.

As far as the profiling, I wasn't going into a rage. lol, trust me that was not rage. Now if you want to profile Arabs, Muslims, and just brown people in general then lets start profiling white Christian men ... Oklahoma bombing was a terrorist attack too. Yet nobody was profiled after that, in fact the first people to be suspected were Arab Muslims!

And I'm sorry but it's a little hard to speak out against those people you see as Islamic fundamentalists when we're directly being hurt by the US. They maybe hurting innocent people, which is not something anyone is proud of, but when the US decides to invade our countries, we're gonna speak out against them before anything else. That is directly effecting us.

 

[Hawkeye]

Actually we should have started profiling with OKC bombings and Timothy McVeigh. There are times in history, in the current moment-on a national level I think we need to profile with flights, there are times with immigration and illigal aliens, we need to profile. In each situation there is cause for another reason to profile. In the middle east if you see a white person walking down the road you instantly profile-they are from the west, what do they want with me? I was profiled in Africa. We were detained and interrogated why? Because we were white. No other reason.

As for knowing about the military rape, I dont see how anyone could NOT know about it- it was all over the news, in every newspaper etc. Anyone who says that the rape did not happen obviously cannot read the news or is living under a rock. It was national news.

One thing you have to realize about this country is there is very little that goes on in politics and with the military that the rest of the US does not know about or has not been made public through the press. Now, that's not to say some people choose to ignore it or decide they want to watch American Idol more than they want to know about what our miliatary is doing or whatever the politicians are doing.

For example I'm just pulling this out because I can pick on shimmer LOL but Shimmer is more in tune with a lot of world events and current events than I am. Why? It interests her. I'm more in tune with how whatever current events tie in with the history of the world and international affairs and how things affect what etc. It's just something I'm interested in.

And you will see that in a lot of my posts how I tie it in with different times of history (with anything I write it's crazy, I love history).

Again you say the first people profiled in the OKC bombing was Arab muslims, well again you gotta look at the history of this country and our relationship with the middle east. Before the OKC incident happened- I'll go as far back as 1970s mid-a lot of incidents happened that involved explostions that were done by Arab Muslims.

Now, I will even agree with you (as I did with Caffin8me) that prior to 9/11 yes we did support regimes that did give cause to terrorism. All in the name of "peace" and "love". But should you look closer now, we are seeing many regimes that the US is no longer supplying aid to (Hezbollah, Hamas, etc) but we did-we are paying for it. We're getting our just deserts on that one.

We have found something we can agree on!

Now my question is why do people run to the US if they are so mad at them for aid? Examples-why would anyone in their right mind decide they hate a country because of the military decisions etc and then decide-yeah but I think I'll move there?

You say its very hard to support a country that will go after your homeland. Obviously there was something about your homeland that you didn't like that made you decide to come over to the US in the first place.

This war and I think many people understand this-is not the same kind of war that we are used to seeing in history. This is not the same war like in WW2 where you had different uniforms or during the Civil war where you could tell who was on whose side etc.

It's hard for Americans to understand and I guess in the military to understand because in our minds we're fighting fair. You go into Iraq theres no question who the American's are. We look different, we dress different, we wear fatigues we look like soldiers. The islamic fasciest they dont like that they are playing by their own rules. It is not unusual to see a bunch of citizens with women and children in a concentraited area and thats where the terrorist is going to do something that will cause fire and then they can go OH OH OH Look at what the big bad US did. That happened with this situation in Isreal and Hezbollah when Isreal fired a missle and killed a ton of innocent children - why? Because Hezbollah had a handful of people in there and were firing at Isreal from there.

You will see a bunch of people driving and one of those is going to be a car bomb but it wont detinate until it is in the most crowded streets.

This is what the US and coalition forces are dealing with over in Iraq and this is what the rest of the world is dealing with. This is not the wars that we knew this is the brink of new wars.

In the future another war will come in and it will not be faught the same way this war is.

Many Americans do not understand this. They think those of us that do are just being mean or whatever when in fact no we're not-this is exactly what the islamic fasciest want to do they want to cause a stir and in order to obliterate them the others will have to go through women and children first. The others will have to go through civilians who have nothing to do with any of this.

And quite honestly with our appeasement we are being viewed by many Islamic countries as being weak because the mentality is the more compromise you give the weaker you appear to the Middle East. Where as in the west you are very much applauded for your ability to compromise and appease.

So then you have a struggle of two very different mindsets. So in order for the US to be able to "fight fair" if you will we will have to eventually switch over to the Middle Eastern Mindset and come up with a more humane way to out these people without harming innocent men, women in children.

So again we agree that many people are being killed senselessly but at the same time we disagree who in fact is doing this and the cause.

 

[Hawkeye]

and just because it is on topic and these are news articles for ya to read:
http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2006/...not_let_d.html
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...531.shtml?s=ic
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...531.shtml?s=ic
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/9_11__five_years_on_opedcolumnists_ralph_peters.ht m

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoona First I'd like to say to Shimmer that you may have heard of it because you're in the military. (I believe I read that it was either you or your husband, or both in the military) The only mention I ever heard of that incident, in the American media, was once online saying that the girl was 25. I heard this story first, and in detail, through the Arabic media where the correctly reported that she was 15 years old. The only way those soldier could possibily be dealt with correct is if they're given the death penalty. Also the whole thing about people in the US not blowing themselves up when they have family killed ... well look at your life. If you were born in the country of your parents and grandparents yet you had no home because it was destroied. Then you had to live in a refugee camp where your biggest fear is waking up tomorrow. When you do wake up it's to military bulldozers outside of your house. You watch your father killed, your brother put in jail (because he's at the "right age") and your mother left alone to try and do something to help you survivor. Live this life and tell me what you'd do. These "terrorists" are a result of oppression, paid for by the US. As far as the profiling, I wasn't going into a rage. lol, trust me that was not rage. Now if you want to profile Arabs, Muslims, and just brown people in general then lets start profiling white Christian men ... Oklahoma bombing was a terrorist attack too. Yet nobody was profiled after that, in fact the first people to be suspected were Arab Muslims! And I'm sorry but it's a little hard to speak out against those people you see as Islamic fundamentalists when we're directly being hurt by the US. They maybe hurting innocent people, which is not something anyone is proud of, but when the US decides to invade our countries, we're gonna speak out against them before anything else. That is directly effecting us.

Um, sweetie, it was all over MSN, MSNBC, CNN.com, as well as several other news media outlets.

And by all over I mean all over the front page.

Not to mention yahoo!

Also, just a thought:
If everytime you got spat on, it was by a white woman wearing red shoes, would you not be suspicious the next time a white woman wearing red shoes approached you?

You can say TIMOTHY MCVEIGH if you like but I'm speaking of foreign attacks in the past several decades. The OKC bombing was an anomaly. Islamic fundamentalists attacking the US is a pattern.
There is a difference.

 

[Hawkeye]

This is just a timeline of the Middle Eastern Islamic fasciest attacks on the US and worldwide

I had originally posted it then took it down but Shimmer if you want it removed feel free to do so:

In 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by:Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1972, 11 Israeli athletes were killed at the Munich Olympics
by: Middle Eastern Islamist
males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1979, the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by:
Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

During the 1980's numerous Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon
by: Middle Eastern Islamist males between the
ages of 17 and 40.

In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by: Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and
40.

In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked, and a 70-year-old
disabled American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard by: Middle
Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a U.S. Navy diver
was murdered by: Middle
Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by: (d) Middle
Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1993, the World Trade Center was bombed by:Middle Eastern
Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1995, a plot to blow up U.S.-bound international flights over the
Pacific was attempted by Middle
Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:Middle Eastern Islamist
males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2000, 17 sailors died in an attack on the USS Cole (DDG 67) in Yemen by: Middle
Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked -- two flown into the World
Trade Centers, one into the Pentagon and one into the ground in rural
Pennsylvania. They were hijacked by: Eastern
Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2002 the United States liberated Afghanistan from: Middle
Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl and other Westerners were kidnapped and
beheaded by: Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2002, more than 330 hostages in Beslan and 130 hostages in Moscow
were murdered in sieges by: Middle Eastern Islamist males
between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2003 the United States liberated Iraq from "The Butcher of Baghdad,"
but most American military personnel were killed by:
Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2004, more than 200 Spanish civilians were murdered on trains by
bombs in Madrid, detonated by: Middle Eastern
Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2005 more than 50 UK citizens were killed by bombs on trains in
London, detonated by: Middle Eastern Islamist males
between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2005, there were hundreds of casualties, men, women and children,
killed by bombs in Jerusalem, Riyadh and Amman. These innocent
civilians were murdered by: Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17
and 40.

In 2005, the city of Paris, and other European cities experienced an
extended period of riots and destruction. The unrest was led
by: Middle Eastern
Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

Since the beginning of Operation Iraqi Freedom, more than 2,500
Americans have been murdered by terrorists. 35,000 Iraqi men, women and
children have also been murdered by terrorists. Most of the combat and
civilians casualties were the result of bombs detonated in civilian
population centers by: Middle Eastern
Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2006, hundreds of Israeli civilians have been killed by rockets
launched by: Middle Eastern Islamist males between the
ages of 17 and 40.

In 2006, a plot to blow up 10 U.S.-bound planes from the U.K. was
attempted by Middle Eastern Islamist males between
the ages of 17 and 40.

Since 2001, the FBI reports that there are major terrorist cells still
in U.S. urban centers. Several of these cells have been uncovered and
cell members arrested. In every case, the terrorists cell members were:
Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.


Between 1970 and present, there were more than 60 other notable
examples
of terrorism perpetrated by Middle Eastern male Islamists between the
ages 17 and 40


Semper Vigilo, Paratus, et Fidelis! Mark Alexander Publisher, The
Patriot

We are looking at over 30 years of Islamic Fascism and the ice cold relations between this and the US. Not just some isolated incidents ilke one 9/11.

 

[*Stargazer*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoona First I'd like to say to Shimmer that you may have heard of it because you're in the military. (I believe I read that it was either you or your husband, or both in the military) The only mention I ever heard of that incident, in the American media, was once online saying that the girl was 25. I heard this story first, and in detail, through the Arabic media where the correctly reported that she was 15 years old. The only way those soldier could possibily be dealt with correct is if they're given the death penalty.

That story was ALL over the mainstream media a few weeks back. Fox, NBC Nightly News, and CNN were just three places that I saw it. I also read it in the Dallas Morning News and several other online versions of major newspapers. Also on AOL news.

And if these allegations prove to be true, which it appears on the face of things that they are, then yes, those soldiers deserve the death penalty. I agree one hundred percent that those actions are unacceptable.

 

[amoona]

In the Middle East if they see a white person they don't pull them off a plane and accuse them of attempting to blow it up. They don't accuse them of doing something fishy. They let you be. And I disagree with you about the media and knowing what goes on in US politics and the military. I've watched American media, I've studied tapes of the news in school ... you think you are being told everything but you're not.

Now the history with Arabs and Muslims?! You mean the US's #1 friends?! What explosions are you talking about? If you want to look at history why weren't Persians called out as being the terrorists after the Oklahoma City bombing? Or white people who terrorized this country before anyone else thought of it. Look at history ... KKK is America's best known terrorist organization. But they don't get profiled. Does that make us safer? Lets start profiling everyone in that case. You can look at history and call out every race. Does that make it right? Did profiling Japanese people after Pearl Harbor help anyone? You wanna stick us in a concentration camp too?

As for Hamas and Hezbollah, those are not terrorist organizations. Those are two resistance organization who also offer much more humanitarian aid to their people then the US offers to their own people. Not to mention both organizations are a part of their countries governments. Don't mean to sound like a bitch, but to call them terrorists is simply a lack of knowledge as to who they really are.

The misconception, which I didn't distinguish earlier (my mistake) is that we don't hate America, we hate the current government and the military actions. Most people I know who I have moved to America, like my parents, only came for school and only stayed here because they couldn't go back home. Yet they don't come here with a hate for the country and it's people, the world knows that Americas are ignorant to the rest of the world because what is filtered through our media. Once again, it's a hate for the current government and the military actions which are dictated through the government.

I'm Palestinian and I love my homeland, I'm planning on moving back once I have the proper credits from school. I am here now because another country occupied my country. Another country has been occupying my country for 58 years and has destroyed my families villages and homes and now the family I have there is stuck in refugee camps. That was not something my country did, it was something the US and Britain helped create when they created the state of Israel.

Now I'm sorry but you went way out of line with the whole Israel/Hezbollah deal. That is the most misinformed response to that situation I could imagine! Let me explain to you Israel's history of terrorism ... and I'll only go into their terrorism in Lebanon. In 1982, September 16-18 they went into Palestinian refugee camps and committed a genocide on the people living in the camps. To this day there is no official number of dead because people just disappeared. Then Israel continued to occupy Lebanon up until 2000. Their excuse has always been that they're protecting themselves, which is bullshit.

I'm not sure if you're aware of how this new conflict started so let me explain that as well. A young Palestinian girl was at the beach with her family in Gaza. Israel launched a missile to the beach and killed the entire family. This little girl was the only survive and she watched her family killed by an Israeli missile!!! They were only on the beach! In retaliation Palestinians in the Gaza Strip kidnapped an Israeli soldier. He was a soldier ... he didn't sign up for summer camp he signed up for the military! Then Hezbollah kidnapped two Israeli soldiers who were in Lebanon. Why were they in Lebanon?! The occupation of Southern Lebanon has been over in 2000, they were protecting themselves and their people. Everyone knows Israeli is nothing but an extremist Jewish state, which is actually even in existence against the Jewish religion.

People who support Hezbollah are men, women, children and the elderly. Most of Lebanon supports Hezbollah, and after what Israel did their support is greater amongst the Christians there as well. Hezbollah rebuilds their houses every time Israel destroys them, Hezbollah builds these people schools and hospitals. They also pay for their healthcare and their education. They are a representation of the people. They never set up these people to die. Israel is one of the most advanced militaries, second to the US, you think they don't know where they're sending a missile? You think they give a damn? They've been terrorizing the Arab world for 58 years!! Dan Gillerman, Israeli Ambassador to the UN, said on the Bill O'Reilly show that all Muslims are terrorists! That's the "democracy" the US recreated in the Middle East. Still think that Israel accidentally killed those civilians? Have you seen the pictures of little Israeli girls writing messages on military missiles that were sent to Beirut? Beirut, which is not in the South of Lebanon where Hezbollah has it's strong hold. Was that another Israeli mistake?

As for the military in Iraq ... once again you didn't sign up for summer camp you signed up for the military. You're probably gonna die when you go to war. Now if you had a more effective government who actually made a plan to go in and get out then none of this shit would be happening in Iraq. At first they loved the US coming and helping them, now they've fled as refugees to Jordan! At least under Saddam they fuckin had water and electricity!

 

[amoona]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Um, sweetie, it was all over MSN, MSNBC, CNN.com, as well as several other news media outlets. And by all over I mean all over the front page. Not to mention yahoo! Also, just a thought: If everytime you got spat on, it was by a white woman wearing red shoes, would you not be suspicious the next time a white woman wearing red shoes approached you? You can say TIMOTHY MCVEIGH if you like but I'm speaking of foreign attacks in the past several decades. The OKC bombing was an anomaly. Islamic fundamentalists attacking the US is a pattern. There is a difference.

Like I said the only time I saw the story on TV it wasn't the correct information.

Someone spitting on me isn't going to cause me to do what the US have done to the Arab and Muslim people. You sound like you can't wait to get all of us out of your country! Here's a thought, if the US didn't fuck over our countries so badly we wouldn't be here!

So you wanna profile us then I'll profile you too. All Americans are racist, anti-Arab, anti-Muslim, anti-Semetic (yea we're semetic people), pro-Israeli terrorism and a dictating force in the world. No wonder why the world hates the US government. You guys are so quick to point the finger but never think about what your country has done to cause these actions from people.

 

[Hawkeye]

So see- it goes both ways. You yourself profile and you can't say you don't.
But you will justify your own predujudices the same way we can.

And just so you know-the media-it likes to give different view points, not just one.

And in Iraq-your right they dont pull you off the plane and question you. Chances are you're the target practice.

And as for the US F*cking over the countries over there-well to put it point blank I agree. But I also don't understand why the governments over there weren't stable in the first place and why they even bothered wasting their time (in some instances) asking for the US to come over and help them. They were countries why couldn't they do it on their own?

And I'm still wondering how you're getting the idea that the middle east has ever been the best friends of the US? Other than the oil the region has caused absolutely nothing but headaches for not only the US but every other nation in the world.

The US has never really had a "best friend" in the middle east. It has always been a very icy relationship.

As for the KKK-they are very much profiled especially in the South.

As for Hezbollah and Hamas being helpful with humanitarian aid etc please educate me on this. I have difficulty believing that these two groups who seem to have an obsession with sticking dynomite on themselves and blowing themselves up (Suicide bombers) really are humanitarians.

Please give me refrences, give me a webpage to look at educate me if you will on these two organizations.

 

[amoona]

In 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by:Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40. one individual person who had no ties to any organization

In 1972, 11 Israeli athletes were killed at the Munich Olympics
by: Middle Eastern Islamist
males between the ages of 17 and 40. Not an attack done on America, it was an attack done on the oppressive Israeli regime

In 1979, the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by:
Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40. Not Arab but their actions were brought on by what the US did in their country

During the 1980's numerous Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon
by: Middle Eastern Islamist males between the
ages of 17 and 40.

In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by: Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and
40. After the US funded Israel's genocide on the Palestinian people in Beirut, Sabra and Shatilla.

In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked, and a 70-year-old
disabled American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard by: Middle
Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40. The ship was hijacked as a result of Israel's wrongful imprisionment of Palestinians and refusal.

In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a U.S. Navy diver
was murdered by: Middle
Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40. The hijack was a result of Israel's wrongful imprisionment of Lebanese Muslims. As well as Israel's actions in Southern Lebanon and the US support of it.

In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by: (d) Middle
Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40. The CIA recieved information linking the bombing to the Israeli Mossad. Nothing was done because Israel is America's friend.

In 1993, the World Trade Center was bombed by:Middle Eastern
Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40. Done because of US aid to Israel, US diplomatic relations with Israel, and US interference with Middle Eastern policy.

In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:Middle Eastern Islamist
males between the ages of 17 and 40. Al-Qadae attack not associaited with Muslim views or Arab policies. Neither country is an Arab country. Profile Africans for this attack.

In 2000, 17 sailors died in an attack on the USS Cole (DDG 67) in Yemen by: Middle
Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40. Another Al-Qadae event

On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked -- two flown into the World
Trade Centers, one into the Pentagon and one into the ground in rural
Pennsylvania. They were hijacked by: Eastern
Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40. Another Al-Qadae event

In 2002 the United States liberated Afghanistan from: Middle
Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40. Not an attack lol

In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl and other Westerners were kidnapped and
beheaded by: Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40. I could go on for days about this event

All the other events you listed were things like liberating Iraq lol. Which is biggest load of shit but that's another essay.

Maybe these Israeli officials words explain why we fight!



"I don't mind if after the job is done you put me in front of a Nuremberg Trial and then jail me for life. Hang me if you want, as a war criminal. What you don't understand is that the dirty work of Zionism is not finished yet, far from it." Ariel Sharon to Amos Oz, editor of Davar, Dec. 17, 1982

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."
Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."
Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online

"I vow that if I was just an Israeli civilian and I met a Palestinian I would burn him and I would make him suffer before killing him. With one hit I've killed 750 Palestinians (in Rafah in 1956). I wanted to encourage my soldiers by raping Arabic girls as the Palestinian women is a slave for Jews, and we do whatever we want to her and nobody tells us what we shall do but we tell others what they shall do." Ariel Sharon, In an interview with General Ouze Merham, 1956.

"I don't know something called International Principles. I vow that I'll burn every Palestinian child (that) will be born in this area. The Palestinian woman and child is more dangerous than the man, because the Palestinian childs existence infers that generations will go on, but the man causes limited danger." Ariel Sharon, In an interview with General Ouze Merham, 1956.

 

[Shimmer]

Mod note: Debate freely, allow the exchange of intelligent discourse and exchange ideas as they are backed up by cited sources as you wish. Maintain a personable and friendly atmosphere in order to keep the discussion ordered.

 

[Shimmer]

Btw, Amoona, the connection between the people listed above is that all listed are Islamic Fundamentalists.

 

[amoona]

lol I don't profile I said if you want to profile then we should to. It's called sarcasm.

US does have some friends in the Middle East. Which is why most of the hijackers on 9/11 were Saudis yet Afghanistan and Iraq got attacked lol. Someone couldn't read a map! Not to mention none of the governments, even Saudi Arabia, had anything to do with those attacks. Nobody ever asked the US to come and help. The US and Britain created the problem in the Middle East by giving away Arab land to European immigrants. That's why there are still problems to this day.

With Hamas and Hezbollah .. ask a Palestinian or a Lebanese person what they do for them. That's your education. Watch CNN when they were interviewing Lebanese citizens about their thoughts on Hezbollah and everything Hezbollah has done for them. Go talk to those people. After everything that happened in Lebanon you could have read tons of articles online about how Hezbollah was handing out bundles of cash to Lebanese people who had their homes destroyed by Israel. The best online resource would be to check Al-Jazeera and read the actual interviews they have with the actual people who have been helped by these groups.

These groups don't kill civilians, they kill Israelis. Every Israeli is required to serve at least two years in the military ... none of them are civilians. If you want to call them terrorists for bombing and killing people then call Israel and the US terrorists too.

Do you have free health care? Does the government give you a paid education? When people's homes were destroyed by Hurricane Katrina did their homes get rebuilt? No! The US doesn't do that shit for their citizens, but Hezbollah and Hamas do it for their citizens.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoona Like I said the only time I saw the story on TV it wasn't the correct information. Someone spitting on me isn't going to cause me to do what the US have done to the Arab and Muslim people. You sound like you can't wait to get all of us out of your country! Here's a thought, if the US didn't fuck over our countries so badly we wouldn't be here! So you wanna profile us then I'll profile you too. All Americans are racist, anti-Arab, anti-Muslim, anti-Semetic (yea we're semetic people), pro-Israeli terrorism and a dictating force in the world. No wonder why the world hates the US government. You guys are so quick to point the finger but never think about what your country has done to cause these actions from people.

So you went off half cocked about a story you aren't sure was or was not reliable in the relaying of pertinent information about a subject that was/is highly inflammatory amongst numerous communities?



I see.

I fail to see how the US "fuck[ing]" your country over drove you here...please, do enlighten me.
I'm assuming you're here to better your life?
To educate yourself?
To speak without being spoken to?
Things of that nature?

If so, if you ARE here under the pretenses of bettering your life...you statement doesn't make sense.

 

[amoona]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Btw, Amoona, the connection between the people listed above is that all listed are Islamic Fundamentalists.

i dont see any of them as islamic fundamentalists. i see them all reactions to us/israeli fundamentalisim.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoona lol I don't profile I said if you want to profile then we should to. It's called sarcasm. US does have some friends in the Middle East. Which is why most of the hijackers on 9/11 were Saudis yet Afghanistan and Iraq got attacked lol. Someone couldn't read a map! Not to mention none of the governments, even Saudi Arabia, had anything to do with those attacks. Nobody ever asked the US to come and help. The US and Britain created the problem in the Middle East by giving away Arab land to European immigrants. That's why there are still problems to this day. With Hamas and Hezbollah .. ask a Palestinian or a Lebanese person what they do for them. That's your education. Watch CNN when they were interviewing Lebanese citizens about their thoughts on Hezbollah and everything Hezbollah has done for them. Go talk to those people. After everything that happened in Lebanon you could have read tons of articles online about how Hezbollah was handing out bundles of cash to Lebanese people who had their homes destroyed by Israel. The best online resource would be to check Al-Jazeera and read the actual interviews they have with the actual people who have been helped by these groups. These groups don't kill civilians, they kill Israelis. Every Israeli is required to serve at least two years in the military ... none of them are civilians. If you want to call them terrorists for bombing and killing people then call Israel and the US terrorists too. Do you have free health care? Does the government give you a paid education? When people's homes were destroyed by Hurricane Katrina did their homes get rebuilt? No! The US doesn't do that shit for their citizens, but Hezbollah and Hamas do it for their citizens.

This whole post made me laugh so hard I snorted a NERD out my nose.


Thanks!


At what point in time does ANY of this really start to make sense???

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoona i dont see any of them as islamic fundamentalists. i see them all reactions to us/israeli fundamentalisim.

Then you're misinformed.


but then again, you are allowed your perception, misinformed as it is.

 

[amoona]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer So you went off half cocked about a story you aren't sure was or was not reliable in the relaying of pertinent information about a subject that was/is highly inflammatory amongst numerous communities? I see. I fail to see how the US "fuck[ing]" your country over drove you here...please, do enlighten me. I'm assuming you're here to better your life? To educate yourself? To speak without being spoken to? Things of that nature? If so, if you ARE here under the pretenses of bettering your life...you statement doesn't make sense.

I'm here because in 1948 my country was occupied by foriegn forces. Thanks to US backing and money they continue to occupy my country. They have murdered and imprisioned my family. They have burnt my grandfather's village to the group and replaced it with their own made up new towns. They have pushed my family into living in refugee camps. I am here because my mother came here for school and intended to go back, but her and my father were unable to go back because Israel would not allow me to live there. As an American citizen I am not allowed to be in my own country for an on going period of time, more then 3 months, before I have to leave and go get my visa renewed. This must occur ever 3 months for me to live there! The only way around that is me to marry someone there and even then that's not 100% that I can stay. I plan on leaving this country once I have enough college credits to transfer to school in Lebanon. The only oppression in my country is not done by my own country. It is done by Israel, who is fully backed and funded by America!

Don't worry sweetie, I'll be out of your precious country soon enough. Keep profiling us and treating us like shit and then you can get all of us damn fundamentalists out. I'm sure that'll make you safer right?