Breastfeeding in public

[*Stargazer*]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

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Originally Posted by Simply Elegant I always thought a baby's need to eat was more important than other people who don't need to look be comfortable. It's not hard to look away but it is hard to listen to a screaming baby. Breasts aren't just sexual and I don't see why it's so hard to realize that.

You know, I actually don't think the hang up in America is about the sexualization of breasts. Breasts are sexualized in other cultures as well and the hang ups don't migrate.

I think it has a lot more to do with the way formula feeding became more popular during WW2 when American women were moving to jobs outside the home. When the war ended and that trend continued, the corporate world realized there was a large market they could tap. I think there was a distinct push by them to portray breastfeeding as dirty and unnatural and it took until very recently for breastfeeding to become less marginalized.

 

[nursee81]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

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Originally Posted by sharkbytes I'm not a fan of public breastfeeding either, and it has nothing at all to do with the "sexualization" of it. It's just that *in my opinion* it IS a private moment. Not because the mother's breasts are exposed (because honestly, with the amount of manboobs just hanging out there, there really is no difference) but because it's kind of rude to assume that people want to see someone breastfeed their kid. It IS different from bottle feeding because there is an intimate mother/child connection. It wouldn't make a difference to me if the mother fed from her arm rather than her breast, it still isn't something that the whole world needs to witness. That said, I don't think there should be any kind of law against it. That's just way too far. I'd just rather folks be a bit more polite.

Women who are breast feeding are not assuming that people want to see them breast feeding they are doing it to feed the child. I have breast fed all 3 of my children and my 2nd one wouldn't take a bottle at all. So I was her personal milk machine I would be hell pissed off if someone told me not to breast feed her. Who are you or anyone for that matter to say its inappropriate to feed you child in public. Like perviously said women or should I say girls walk around in revealing clothes or bathing suits should they stay behind a blanket too or not be allowed in public? why is it such a double standard? is my question?

 

[ratmist]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

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Originally Posted by nibjet I'm more offended by the attitude that it is acceptable to do it wherever they want than the breastfeeding itself. When I worked at a dept. store (in the salon, but this happened out in the store) a woman took it upon herself to plop down on the display beds to breastfeed, and threw a huge fit when they asked her to move. It had nothing to do with the breastfeeding, that's not what those beds are there for, NO ONE is allowed on them. A similar incident happened in the shoe dept. a few months later, different woman, same sense of entitlement. Our mall does have a rather nice nursing room, and a family bathroom, but in the 6 1/2 years I worked at that mall, I never saw the nursing room occupied. *edited to say that yes, other people do sit on displays or take up chairs when they had no intention of purchasing shoes, but they (for the most part) didn't throw a huge fit about it when asked to move, while the nursing women automatically assumed it was over the nursing.

If a place has a dedicating nursing room that is actually nice, I'd be more than happy to use it.

And as for using chairs/beds/etc for sitting on when they're not technically allowed to do so? I'm 36 weeks pregnant now, which puts me just into my ninth month of pregnancy. I frequently sit in display chairs or in the shoe departments if I need to rest. This is because there usually isn't a chair available for someone to just sit and relax. A lot of the chairs that used to be available outside changing rooms have disappeared in department stores. So if someone confronts me and asks me to move, I ask if there's a chair available for me to just rest for a few minutes. If they say no, then I say I won't move unless a manager requests it, but I'll move on in a few minutes after I catch my breath / ease my back / whatever.

As for breastfeeding rooms, I've seen some pretty horrific ones that are nothing more than dank, dark little rooms with poor ventilation, poor lighting, peeling wallpaper, usually supplied with rigid chairs that do not facilitate breastfeeding, often without a changing table and diaper bin. We're talking an old storage/supply room for nearby toilets that got converted into a "nursing room". A nursing mother needs to be able to take up a position for up to an hour in some cases to feed. If the chair provided isn't going to help her do this, you won't find women using the room.

It's great someone thought of having a nursing room at your old workplace, but oftentimes it's just there to tick a box, but isn't actually useful. It's just there so that the rest of society don't have to be confronted with the sight of a woman breastfeeding. And sometimes women don't know there's a nursing room available; it's a relatively new phenomenon in some places.

 

[sharkbytes]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

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Originally Posted by nursee81 Women who are breast feeding are not assuming that people want to see them breast feeding they are doing it to feed the child. I have breast fed all 3 of my children and my 2nd one wouldn't take a bottle at all. So I was her personal milk machine I would be hell pissed off if someone told me not to breast feed her. Who are you or anyone for that matter to say its inappropriate to feed you child in public. Like perviously said women or should I say girls walk around in revealing clothes or bathing suits should they stay behind a blanket too or not be allowed in public? why is it such a double standard? is my question?

My point, which you seemed to have missed, isn't that women want the whole world to see them breastfeed. Far from it. It was that politely moving aside to a LESS public area would be welcomed, because I've seen women just dropping all the crap they're carrying in the middle of the sidewalk and stand there and breastfeed. It's RUDE, and I (and others) have every right to be annoyed by it. I'm in NY, and sidewalks are crowded enough as it is without having to step over people. I'm not saying EVERY breastfeeding mother does this, but those that monopolize entire public areas should be a bit more courteous to others around them.

Also, you seem to be assuming that the nudity is the problem. It isn't. With clothing styles and bathing suits, it isn't an issue.

 

[sharkbytes]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

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Originally Posted by ratmist Even dressing it up as a call for "politeness" or "privateness", this is just a classic case of projecting one's own insecurities onto someone else.

I really disagree. Saying that other people must just be "insecure" because they don't want to see someone breastfeeding doesn't make sense to me. Not every place is appropriate for breastfeeding, and it has nothing to do with insecurity, it's common courtesy. Yeah you can look away, that's not the point.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

So your point is simply don't be a jerk?

I can get behind that. Stopping in the middle of the street to do anything (answer your cell phone, gawk at a store window) is generally rude and shouldn't be done.

 

[sharkbytes]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

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Originally Posted by Beauty Mark So your point is simply don't be a jerk? I can get behind that. Stopping in the middle of the street to do anything (answer your cell phone, gawk at a store window) is generally rude and shouldn't be done.

YES! THANK YOU. Seriously, that's all I mean by it. It's like there's a kneejerk reaction whenever you criticize breastfeeding, and that's not my point at all! thanks again~~

 

[Willa]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

Wow...
I'm speachless

I mean, I never knew that so many people would find it offensive! To me it is so natural.

Feeding a baby, go back to basics here, there's nothing sexual about it...

I just think that there are some places and some time to do it. The lady at the ballroom, not sure it was appropriate, the lady at the shoe store, she could have waited a bit.

 

[Nox]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

In my household, openly breastfeeding was normal, so I never attached any thoughts of indecency to it. Even as a young kid, I actually found it extremely odd that there exists such people who think the sight of it is offensive.

 

[lara]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

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Originally Posted by M.A.C. head. Sorry for the disruption, but I felt that it needed to be put out there.

A thread on customer interactions is not the place for people to get on their moral high horse about breastfeeding. Breastfeeding does not automatically make someone a bad customer.

 

[DirtyHarriet]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

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Originally Posted by sharkbytes My point, which you seemed to have missed, isn't that women want the whole world to see them breastfeed. Far from it. It was that politely moving aside to a LESS public area would be welcomed, because I've seen women just dropping all the crap they're carrying in the middle of the sidewalk and stand there and breastfeed. It's RUDE, and I (and others) have every right to be annoyed by it. I'm in NY, and sidewalks are crowded enough as it is without having to step over people. I'm not saying EVERY breastfeeding mother does this, but those that monopolize entire public areas should be a bit more courteous to others around them.

If this was true (especially the bold part) then this thread would not be about breastfeeding, it would be about people stopping in the middle of the sidewalk for no reason and blocking the flow of foot traffic, and people being rude. Rudeness is by no means unique to breastfeeding moms.

As for a woman walking down a busy sidewalk in NY with a kid in tow and carrying a bunch of crap...put yourself in her situation...what if her kid is having a fit because s/he is hungry...and she's trying to balance the kid, and carrying everything else...maybe she can't really continue unless she feeds the kid? Kids shouldn't really eat anything but breast milk until 6 months old. So maybe she doesn't have any in a bottle. So what is she to do?

Maybe instead of being annoyed by her, you should have offered her some help?

Just a thought...

There are far too many people making out in public, half naked, and rude. And yet the breastfeeding moms are getting evil eyes. There is something wrong with that. Let people feed their kids. It takes between 10 and 45 minutes, and then they'll be on their way. Just d keep walking and get over it.

 

[ratmist]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

So let me get this straight.

I should always breastfeed my child, up until the age of six months at least, or until someone starts wigging out that the baby is too old to be breastfed anymore.

But I should seriously consider expressing the milk and put it in a bottle if I'm going outside, because heavens forbid I have to actually breastfeed in public. Nevermind the issues of nipple confusion or the fact that my child may reject bottles completely. Expressing milk should be something of convenience for the public's eye, not convenience for the woman or the baby. Right.

I should also make sure that no one can see me actually breastfeed in public, if god forbid I have to do so, in case of offending those with delicate sensibilities. Gotta make sure to hide it, because it's a private thing to some people who aren't even parents or aren't breastfeeders themselves.

So I gotta find dark corners, dark rooms, dark anywhere, if a blanket or clever breastfeeding clothing isn't good enough.

Gotta sit in dirty public bathrooms, where no one would ever think to eat a sandwich, so my baby can eat its meal. Because clearly, eating where people take a shit is where a baby ought to have its dinner.

Just in case someone gets a peek at the top of my breast. Even if those places aren't comfortable for me to set myself up for ten to 45 minutes of breastfeeding so I can feed my child. Can't wait to sit on a toilet for ten to 45 minutes while people are waiting to go to the toilet. Oops, looks like that's rude - blocking up a public bathroom toilet like that - so .... time to find another dark corner somewhere. Anywhere. Can't win.

If in a public place where my baby is screaming to be fed, I have to make sure that my top priority is whether or not the strangers around me are offended.

Right.

 

[ratmist]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

Just gonna quote you a few times here to be quick about it:

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharkbytes it's kind of rude to assume that people want to see someone breastfeed their kid. It IS different from bottle feeding because there is an intimate mother/child connection. It wouldn't make a difference to me if the mother fed from her arm rather than her breast, it still isn't something that the whole world needs to witness. Instead of sitting in the middle of a movie theater, or the middle of the sidewalk breastfeeding, maybe move over to the side, or an area where there isn't a ton of people. I really disagree. Saying that other people must just be "insecure" because they don't want to see someone breastfeeding doesn't make sense to me. Not every place is appropriate for breastfeeding, and it has nothing to do with insecurity, it's common courtesy. Yeah you can look away, that's not the point. It's just that it feels like a private, bodily mother/child thing that the public shouldn't have a bird's eye view of.

Your problem, as you've stated it, is that the bond between a mother and a child is visible at the point where a child's mouth meets its mother's body. And you don't want to see that because it should be private.

So as I understand it, you personally don't want to see a physical feeding connection between a mother and a child. I don't know what to call that except some kind of bizarre insecurity, stemming from some reason why it's a bad thing to see a mother taking an active interest in her child's health and welfare.

My only response to this is that I don't care if it makes you uncomfortable. Breastfeeding does not have to be done in private. It can be done anywhere, anytime. If people have a problem with it, the answer is NOT for the breastfeeding mother to bend over backwards to appease the general population - which can't make up its mind if it's gonna be offended or if it doesn't care at all. You cannot please everyone, and so blanket statements like "Be more discreet!" and "Find a way to make it more private!" are just so much bullshit.

Are you okay with seeing any parent feed his or her child? Do you feel the same way about bottle-feeding, or if a parent is spoon-feeding, or hand-feeding, or just feeding in general? Or is this idea that "it should be private!" just a weak-ass coverup for feeling weirded out by seeing a baby at the breast?

Furthermore, as to your other weak analogies, if you're looking over my damned shoulder in the middle of a movie theatre, you've clearly got a problem, not me. You've gotta be craning that neck hard to be seeing what I'm doing, in that situation. God forbid I be able to breastfeed an infant and see a film at the same time. Anywhere I sit is likely to be in someone's vantage point - if they're too busy watching me taking care of my kid instead of watching the fucking film.

Bottom line, your "birds eye views" are only obtainable if you're standing over my fucking shoulder, desperate for a peek at my business.

Get over it.

 

[sharkbytes]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

You know, you seem to be taking this awfully personally, and directing your comments at me in particular. I have been/am speaking in a general sense, and I've said about 30 times that it isn't EVERY publicly breastfeeding mother that is rude. Most of the time you hardly even notice. No one's desperate for a peek at your business, and if you have such a huge chip on your shoulder about breastfeeding, maybe YOU should get over it and deal with the fact that not everyone in the world is going to accept it. You've said that you don't care if it makes people uncomfortable, so you should be prepared for the fact that others don't care if you're uncomfortable as well.


It's clear we're never going to agree on this issue, so perhaps we ought to just agree to disagree.

 

[DirtyHarriet]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

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Originally Posted by sharkbytes It's clear we're never going to agree on this issue, so perhaps we ought to just agree to disagree.

The point is that this is not a societal issue that should be debated, because it's a natural normal thing to do. You're feeding your child. That's it.

What we are disagreeing with is your personal hangups. Yes, it's your choice to hang on to them. But you shouldn't pass it on to moms trying to feed your kids. And sadly, starting this thread does that.

 

[M.A.C. head.]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

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Originally Posted by lara A thread on customer interactions is not the place for people to get on their moral high horse about breastfeeding. Breastfeeding does not automatically make someone a bad customer.

This is really confusing me. Is the first part directed specifically at me or is it about the discussion from the other thread all together.

If so, the thread has been moved, so there's no need for the attitude.

If not, sorry about that and have a nice day.

 

[sharkbytes]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

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Originally Posted by DirtyHarriet The point is that this is not a societal issue that should be debated, because it's a natural normal thing to do. You're feeding your child. That's it. What we are disagreeing with is your personal hangups. Yes, it's your choice to hang on to them. But you shouldn't pass it on to moms trying to feed your kids. And sadly, starting this thread does that.

Well, I didn't start the thread, and I don't have "personal hangups," and neither does anyone else who doesn't want to have to deal with nursing mothers in public places. And it is a societal issue when you nurse in public rather than at home. It is your personal opinion that it is a natural normal thing to do, and you haven't allowed for the possibility that not everyone agrees with your opinion.

I was actually trying to keep the discussion nice and civil, and quell any further argument by saying that we should just agree to disagree.

 

[fafinette21]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

I agree with sharkbytes. I just don't think it appropriate to have everything out there in public. There's a place for everything and I don't necessarily think walking through the mall or eating dinner at a restaurant is the place to be breastfeeding your child. For me, it's just about modesty, I also have no desire to see some chick who has her cleavage all out there for the world to see. Yea breasts are natural, feeding your child is natural, that's all well and good, but I don't see why I have to be subjected to it. Now someone's probably going to attack me for whatever reason, but I don't really care, that's how I feel.

 

[*Stargazer*]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

Jesus. H. Christ.

TURN. YOUR. HEADS.

Why is this so fucking hard for people to understand? Am I missing something fundamental? You are all being forced to watch this when you see someone nursing in public? There are roving bands of lactivists holding guns to your heads?

Holy crap.

And it's not "opinion" that breastfeeding is natural and normal. It's biology. It is the natural and normal way for animals to feed their children.

 

[Simply Elegant]

Re: Breastfeeding (moved from Industry Discussion)

There are a lot more unpleasant things out there to see in public every day than seeing the very upper part of a breast (which many tops expose anyway) for 1 second before you look away. Would you rather deny a baby who doesn't understand why it has to wait to be fed so that you can feel comfortable?