Discussion about moral/ethical/political aspects of Rodarte for MAC

[stv578]

What bothers me is that given the original product names and the promo pic, it appears that the people behind this collection were very aware of the situation in Juarez.
I just can't get my head around why anyone at MAC or Rodarte thought this was a good idea at any point during the developmental process.

 

[Boasorte]

Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naynadine Oh boy,this whole drama around the Rodarte collection is starting to annoy me.I mean not here on Specktra,but everywhere.Even on my own german blog.And I only read like 10 % of what I see about it on forums and blogs. I think it's a beautiful collection and I find nothing wrong with it.If you don't like,don't buy it.As simple as that. Someone commented on my blog it would be the same as if a lipstick would be named Auschwitz.Now that's where I draw the line. I really have to calm myself down,I would like to say a lot of things to that and to the people who are oh-so-outraged about this collection,but I rather don't even start. *taking deep breath*

Your annoyance and anger won't stop people from posting their opinions.You draw the line at a lipstick named after a concentration camp but not something like this? Would a slavery collection with lipsticks named "Noose" and "Cotton Field" and "KKK" be beautiful? After all it would be drawing inspiration from the strong Africans who had to endear slavery for hundreds of years.
Your Unnecessary post is unnecessary
Quote:

Originally Posted by rhondavancouver Just read mac is making a donation and changing the names of the products... Yes, it's good that they listen to the consumer, but somehow I can't stop thinking this is what they wanted all along... to get everyone to talk about it... maybe I'll just donate and skip the collection.

I'm a sucker for conspiracy theories

 

[Chikky]

Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion

Quote:

Originally Posted by martiangurll I agree. I am upset they are changing the names. It doesn't change the fact that there will still be political controversy. And I liked the ethereal effect they were going for--the so called zombie look. Then again, I like all things zombie, but perhaps that is a topic for another forum.

Agreed. I liked the zombie look, too!

Personally, I think people are overreacting. Yes, I'm quite aware of what's going on. No, it doesn't affect my choice of products. To be honest, any group could find fault with almost any name or product.

Quote:

But I really liked the names of the products and I thought they went well with the theme of the collection. I don't see anyone blogging about refusing to buy DS makeup at Walmart because they have sweatshops in the third world.

I agree. I wish they wouldn't change the names, and I sort of feel that it's a coward move to do so. They decided on them for some reason, and they should stick by it.

No offense to anyone. Just my opinion. And if people had such a problem with it, I feel they should contribute something to the cause, not make this company change the names of products, thereby costing them a ton of wasted money.

 

[Andrew]

Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion

Your annoyance and anger won't stop people from posting their opinions.You draw the line at a lipstick named after a concentration camp but not something like this? Would a slavery collection with lipsticks named "Noose" and "Cotton Field" and "KKK" be beautiful? After all it would be drawing inspiration from the strong Africans who had to endear slavery for hundreds of years.


Precisely..can you imagine the offence if a range came out named like that..that would get ugly..

Well there is plainly a divided camp here, this is so much more than just about a few names for cosmetics, the motivation behind it is staggering albeit claimed to be unintentional..

 

[Door]

Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion

Quote:

Originally Posted by martiangurll I agree. I am upset they are changing the names. It doesn't change the fact that there will still be political controversy. And I liked the ethereal effect they were going for--the so called zombie look. Then again, I like all things zombie, but perhaps that is a topic for another forum. Anyhoo, I really like the collection and the look they were going for. I get the artistic inspiration was women on their way to work in the bordertown in the early hours of the morning when the light was just beginning to break, etc. Maybe they aren't fully awake because it is really early in the morning, etc. And I do not mean to minimize the murders happening, but I don't think that anyone meant to capitalize on the controversy. I think this was unintended consequences of the choice of inspiration for the artists. But I really liked the names of the products and I thought they went well with the theme of the collection. I don't see anyone blogging about refusing to buy DS makeup at Walmart because they have sweatshops in the third world.

My thoughts exactly, but you wrote it better than I ever could.

 

[styrch]

Spunky, thanks for linking me here. I was just going to do that and ask that if anyone comes across charities they feel I should add to my list, please just let me know. I'm trying to grow this list as much as possible so that we have a variety to choose from.

Incidentally, I emailed MAC and asked who they intended on donating to. At this point I have not received a response. Not sure I expect to. But if we do hear, I want to add that to my list as well.

 

[s0_fam0us]

I'm not gearing these comments toward any one person - consider this just my personal views...

Does anyone honestly believe that MAC announced this collection with the intent of promoting femicide or glorifying the events occurring in Juarez? I get very aggravated in hearing everyone say how disappointed they are in MAC and their decisions...

It's just makeup. They're just names of products. They're just promo images. MAC really doesn't have anything to do with Juarez. They are a cosmetics company. If you'd like to be disappointed/angry/emotional with ANYONE I feel that those feelings are best directed at those responsible for the conditions in Juarez.

As much as you may feel you're accomplishing something and patting yourself on the back at "getting MAC to rethink their poor choices" or whatever, people are still dying in Juarez regardless if a nail polish is called "Factory" or "Cute Cuddly Gray."

Consider that.

/rant

 

[katred]

Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion

Quote:

Originally Posted by martiangurll I agree. I am upset they are changing the names. It doesn't change the fact that there will still be political controversy.

Very true. It's not like everyone is suddenly going to forget that all of this came up, or that the original inspiration still lurks in the palette even if Sleepwalker is suddenly renamed "Fluffy Bunny Hop".

Quote:

Originally Posted by martiangurll And I liked the ethereal effect they were going for--the so called zombie look. Then again, I like all things zombie, but perhaps that is a topic for another forum.

Zombie girls have more brains!

Quote:

Originally Posted by martiangurll I don't see anyone blogging about refusing to buy DS makeup at Walmart because they have sweatshops in the third world.

Personally I won't buy anything at WM (and never have), for a lot of reasons. I guess that's how I choose to "vote" with my money, as some people are choosing to do by not buying this collection or not buying from MAC.

I think I'm cutting MAC some slack here because I generally like them as a company. I think this incident points to some really bone-headed, insensitive types in their marketing department, but I don't see it as being deliberately hurtful. I'll give them a bye on this one and, more to the point, will give the collection a buy.

I would imagine that the people who are most troubled by this have already excluded a lot of corporations from their buying habits because of their record, even if they arne't blogging about it. (Maybe I'm off base there, but I hope not.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by martiangurll Totally depends on the names they choose for the products. To me, the names do influence my decision. Maybe that is silly, but that is simply how much the names of the product influence the perception of the color. I really like the interesting names of the Urban Decay products, like "asphyxia" and "bruise."

Completely agree with you here. Names, especially ones like MAC does, which usually bear no reference to the colour, evoke an atmosphere. I think this probably helps their sales, since putting a colour in a different context can make it seem different and unique to a buyer, even if it's very close to another colour already in the line. Sleepwalker does conjure up certain connotations, especially paired with that polarising press image, that another name may not.

Nicely put, btw.

 

[Naynadine]

Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion

quote:Your annoyance and anger won't stop people from posting their opinions.You draw the line at a lipstick named after a concentration camp but not something like this? Would a slavery collection with lipsticks named "Noose" and "Cotton Field" and "KKK" be beautiful? After all it would be drawing inspiration from the strong Africans who had to endear slavery for hundreds of years.
Your Unnecessary post is unnecessary

Wow.I don't know if I understand everything correct,because my English is not the best.But that is just rude.Why would you call my opinion unnecessary?
I don't think anyone's opinion is ever unnecessary,even if I have a total different one.And to me there's definitely a line between Auschwitz=concentration camp and Juarez which is a name of a city.It's not like they called the nailpolish ''serialkiller'' or ''dead woman''.And I think comparing it to KKK and a slavery collection is ridiculous and over the top,to be honest.
It is just make-up.I don't understand why people react so sensitive to all of this.Like I said,if you don't like the art of this collection,don't buy it.If you are worried about the situation and women in Juarez,I'm sure there are ways to help/donate,and I always looked up to everybody who is involved in helping with issues like that.
Even if I still don't understand it,I see that some people react kind of heated to this collection,but there's no need to call people's posts on a forum unnecessary.Also on my blog I just commented factual and not angry to the anonymous comments,even if I did not like them.I could as well deleted them or let my ''anger'' out.

 

[Half N Half]

Quote:

Originally Posted by s0_fam0us Does anyone honestly believe that MAC announced this collection with the intent of promoting femicide or glorifying the events occurring in Juarez? I get very aggravated in hearing everyone say how disappointed they are in MAC and their decisions... It's just makeup. They're just names of products. They're just promo images. MAC really doesn't have anything to do with Juarez. They are a cosmetics company. If you'd like to be disappointed/angry/emotional with ANYONE I feel that those feelings are best directed at those responsible for the conditions in Juarez.

Yes, it IS just makeup. But I think in this case they are NOT just product names and it's NOT just a promo image. The names/images are obviously "inspired" by Juarez. What's going on there is terrible. I don't think anyone is directing bad feelings towards MAC because they feel the company is promoting femicide. I think people are upset because with all the people working at MAC someone didn't have enough sense to put 2 and 2 together and figure out that some people might be put off by this kind of collection.

 

[sungelly87]

Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion

I appreciate everyone's opinions on moral/ethical issues, just not on this thread.
Maybe here:
http://www.specktra.net/forum/f179/d...te-mac-167591/

 

[Naynadine]

Quote:

Originally Posted by s0_fam0us I'm not gearing these comments toward any one person - consider this just my personal views... Does anyone honestly believe that MAC announced this collection with the intent of promoting femicide or glorifying the events occurring in Juarez? I get very aggravated in hearing everyone say how disappointed they are in MAC and their decisions... It's just makeup. They're just names of products. They're just promo images. MAC really doesn't have anything to do with Juarez. They are a cosmetics company. If you'd like to be disappointed/angry/emotional with ANYONE I feel that those feelings are best directed at those responsible for the conditions in Juarez. As much as you may feel you're accomplishing something and patting yourself on the back at "getting MAC to rethink their poor choices" or whatever, people are still dying in Juarez regardless if a nail polish is called "Factory" or "Cute Cuddly Gray." Consider that. /rant

100%

 

[sss215]

Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion

Quote:

Originally Posted by martiangurll I agree. I am upset they are changing the names. It doesn't change the fact that there will still be political controversy. And I liked the ethereal effect they were going for--the so called zombie look. Then again, I like all things zombie, but perhaps that is a topic for another forum. Thus far, I think I still want to purchase the same products, but I was fairly invested in the names and they won't be the same without them.

I believe that the people at MAC and Rodarte are creative enough to come up with names that will still capture the essence they were originally trying to envoke. Companies often have working names for products they don't use all the time. I am sure these companies can fall back on some of those now.

The colors will remain the same. I am assuming face charts are already made,those elements are still there for people for those who are a fan of this look. One of the color names can be ethereal, since i am hearing that word being used so much about Rodarte's collection.

When reading MAC's color story about Rodarte's collection, I see tons of words MAC can use for product names.

 

[Boasorte]

Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion

Wow.I don't know if I understand everything correct,because my English is not the best.But that is just rude.Why would you call my opinion unnecessary?
I don't think anyone's opinion is ever unnecessary,even if I have a total different one.And to me there's definitely a line between Auschwitz=concentration camp and Juarez which is a name of a city.It's not like they called the nailpolish ''serialkiller'' or ''dead woman''.And I think comparing it to KKK and a slavery collection is ridiculous and over the top,to be honest.
It is just make-up.I don't understand why people react so sensitive to all of this.Like I said,if you don't like the art of this collection,don't buy it.If you are worried about the situation and women in Juarez,I'm sure there are ways to help/donate,and I always looked up to everybody who is involved in helping with issues like that.
Even if I still don't understand it,I see that some people react kind of heated to this collection,but there's no need to call people's posts on a forum unnecessary.Also on my blog I just commented factual and not angry to the anonymous comments,even if I did not like them.I could as well deleted them or let my ''anger'' out.[/quote]

You're like the 3rd person to mention people oh so high strung over the name "Jaurez". No one in here is complaining about that.
If you don't uderstand, then don't comment about you're getting upset of other's opinions, that was unnecessary. Simple.
Implying that you're getting upset because people have the audacity to feel offended by the insensitive MAC and Rodarte is just ridiculous, to be honest.
I was not being rude.

Everyone on here who is saying "it's just makeup" I feel should take a step back and look at themselves. Of course it's just makeup don't state the obvious when trying to make a point, it doesn't work.

Also to others who mentioned not seeing people speak out against *insert retail/department/brand here* because they support sweat shops/child labor/etc, I suggest you Google, because it's out there. Do not try to reason your argument with no ammo and backwards research.
It is so amazing to me how some of you girls on here are so closed minded and ignorant of other peoples arguments, it's truly sad.

 

[Boasorte]

what's going on with the quotes?

 

[Shimmer]

Personal attacks - NOT okay.
Remember the TOS.
Discuss, debate, argue freely. Don't attack one another. Don't name call.
I don't care if you curse, but don't call anyone names and don't apply the epithet to any other member on this site.
Please don't clutter the color story thread up with this topic of conversation. Leave that one light.

 

[Simply Elegant]

If this collection's primary purpose was to raise awareness of Juarez (like viva glam campaign for aids), then the names would not be provocative as they are. It's not like they've named one of the viva glam lipsticks death warmed over or some other offensive name and the proceeds would be 100% going to charity and planned for in advance rather than later announcing a portion would be.

 

[Naynadine]

Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion

quote:You're like the 3rd person to mention people oh so high strung over the name "Jaurez". No one in here is complaining about that.
If you don't uderstand, then don't comment about you're getting upset of other's opinions, that was unnecessary. Simple.
Implying that you're getting upset because people have the audacity to feel offended by the insensitive MAC and Rodarte is just ridiculous, to be honest.
I was not being rude.

Everyone on here who is saying "it's just makeup" I feel should take a step back and look at themselves. Of course it's just makeup don't state the obvious when trying to make a point, it doesn't work.

Also to others who mentioned not seeing people speak out against *insert retail/department/brand here* because they support sweat shops/child labor/etc, I suggest you Google, because it's out there. Do not try to reason your argument with no ammo and backwards research.
It is so amazing to me how some of you girls on here are so closed minded and ignorant of other peoples arguments, it's truly sad.:quote

Well,I kept reading and hearing a lot of people complaining about the name Juarez,maybe not in this thread.I just posted how I feel about the uproar and about the comments I recieved on my blog.Nothing about that was unnecessary.I'm sorry,but I just think the way you commented was intolerant.It seems to me that you are the one who is not tolerating other opinions than yours.I's not my fault that you're offended by this collection.That is more closedminded to me than people defending freedom of art.

I really didn't want to discuss so much about all that and comment negatively,but I just felt like you're comments towards me were inappropriate.That's just how I feel.
I apologize if my comments were posted in the wrong thread.
And it seems like I'm not the only one who thinks that a lot of peolpe are overreacting about this collection.

I just hope the collection will be released as soon as possible and everybody who wants will be able to get what they want from it,and enjoy the products no matter what names they have.

 

[s0_fam0us]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half N Half Yes, it IS just makeup. But I think in this case they are NOT just product names and it's NOT just a promo image. The names/images are obviously "inspired" by Juarez. What's going on there is terrible. I don't think anyone is directing bad feelings towards MAC because they feel the company is promoting femicide. I think people are upset because with all the people working at MAC someone didn't have enough sense to put 2 and 2 together and figure out that some people might be put off by this kind of collection.

While I agree that what is happening there (and elsewhere in the world) is terrible, it is actually happening. Not to sound insensitive to the conditions, MAC cannot change that. If they want to put out a collection that some people see as an accurate representation of the area then they are free to do so. And consumers are free to buy it - or not.

Calling for MAC to alter their collection plans and demand they take action in the form of monetary reparations is ridiculous to me. As I said, i think the passion people have expressed against this collection would be better put to use in solving the problem. I understand the need to believe/fight for something, but to get the names of some cosmetic products changed? Please.

I guess I'm just for the mantra to live and let live.

 

[Half N Half]

Quote:

Originally Posted by s0_fam0us Calling for MAC to alter their collection plans and demand they take action in the form of monetary reparations is ridiculous to me. As I said, i think the passion people have expressed against this collection would be better put to use in solving the problem. I understand the need to believe/fight for something, but to get the names of some cosmetic products changed? Please.

I do agree with this. What's done is done and obviously changing product names at this point won't do anything but shut a few people up. The collection has already been made and that's that. I just think they could have handled it better from the start. At least now a lot more people are aware of the situation and hopefully the money that MAC is planning to donate will do some good...hopefully.