Discussion about moral/ethical/political aspects of Rodarte for MAC

[s_lost]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spunky i could be wrong, but i think it's because the women who work in the Maquiladoras going to work in the middle of the night and their working hours being outwith what is considered 'normal'. hence they're 'sleepwalking'. if i got that wrong, please feel free to correct me.

Exactly what I tought. It's not very nice have to go to work like a sleepwalker, risking the own life...

 

[hello_my_apple]

Sleepwalker is also commonly asscociated w/ common prostitution. so spunky youre also right aswell. It's basically a woman who has to work at night.

 

[martiangurll]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mabelle im sorry, but doing a collection inspired by "a serial killer's play ground" is like doing a holocaust/rawandan genocide inspired colelction for me. Nothing about it is beautiful. Are thy promoting femicide? Absolutely not. Are they trying to stir controversy? I dont think so. I think its just so damn tasteless. Why not name an eyeshadow Gestapo? or auschwitz? I know if a product named something along those lines came out with a promo image of a dead looking girl, people would be offended, and rightly so i think. Now obviously everyone knows about the holocaust (or at least i hope they do) and its generally accepted that we do not make light of such things. I think making prtoducts with these names makes light of the situation. I mean, sure, we all love make up and take it somewhat seriously... but do you really want something that supposed to be fun and make you feel beautifil (and is well... frivilous!!) named after something so awful that is ONGOING! It turns my stomach. Am i dissapointed in MAC? Yes. Do i think they did it on purpose? No. I think a lot of people dropped the ball and it was a mistake. I don't think any company that does so much for victims of HIV and AIDS would ever knowingly release a collection like this. Mostly i am DISGUSTED by Rodart. How could these two rich white women, who will never know what it is like for women from these towns, release and profit off of multiple collections based on mass murder,fear and dispair? so ignorant.

I don't think they meant to base the collection on mass murder (technically I think individual murders or serial murders unless there was a mass murder I don't know about there), fear and dispair. I think the collection was inspired by the loveliness of the women in their clothing and culture and the "sleepwalking" inspiration was the view of the women in the early morning light. Don't think it was meant to be based on murder, fear or dispair.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NappyMACDiva3 Interesting how on some blogs, sites, etc. people are up in arms at MAC and Rodarte about this line and the clothing line. But few have said anything about the factories conditions, etc., that have been occurring for over 15+ years. Also how many people were concerned about Juarez before these lines were created and how many are going to be concerned and doing something about the rapes, murders, drugs, etc. after the makeup has been used and the clothes no longer fit. 2-3 years down the line who will still care and try to make a difference? It is so easy to say what MAC should do but what are we doing to fix the issues in the world? Dafar still had issues going on, various communities in the US, etc. have problems too. What are we doing to fix the issues besides making statements. Actions speak louder that words. Let's boycott the factories making electronics, clothing, shoes etc and tell them to improve the conditions, etc. or we will not support them. If your favorite jeans or shoes are made at these factories are you going to boycott them? People can boycott MAC all day,every day, but these things will still occur in Juarez without change by the people, government, and people buying the products made there. Also there is beauty in Juarez in the mist of everything else going on. We have to remember that not all people are in cartels, gangs, getting raped, murdered, etc. Also I don't think MAC had any ill intentions. I am not on any side. I am for the rights of all people to live a decent life without fearing for their lives, etc. MAC is innocent until proven guilty. We should do our research before we judge. I am currently doing more research and seeing how I can make a difference like I do in my own community.

This type of violence is problematic in the bordertowns regardless of the factories. And the lack of respect for women is not inclusive to Juarez or border towns with factories. It is a growing problem with the exploitation of third world countries by using cheap labor because the citizens are desperate for jobs and will take less money than the citizens of the so called first world countries. But I don't think boycotting MAC or other companies will stop the violence. It will require a radical shift in the politics.

I think it was a huge jump to a conclusion to say that Rodarte exploited the situation and purposefully disregarded the political connotations in their choice of subject. To me (and perhaps I am being naive here) it seems they saw a thing of beauty in the border town culture and tried to capture that in the collection. But to compare that to a collection that glorified a concentration camp or the KKK is extreme conjecture. There is more to these bordertowns than exploitation and murder. And I did not find any of the names to be in distaste--even "factory." Would we have a problem with a product being named "New York" because a tragedy happened there? That is not the only thing that happened there or that defines the city.

The over-reaction seems to me to be focusing on only the criminal aspect of the bordertowns and neglecting the actual inspiration of the collection.

On the other hand, I am annoyed with MAC for back peddling and changing the names and doing this so called charity contribution in response to the back lash. In a way, it appears to re-enforce the magnification of the connection to the violence in Juarez and in a way to justify the controversy. It is all very silly to me. (the reaction, not the violence)

 

[LMD84]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hello_my_apple Sleepwalker is also commonly asscociated w/ common prostitution. so spunky youre also right aswell. It's basically a woman who has to work at night.

ah thanks for clearing that up.

 

[kabuki_KILLER]

In my honest opinion, I like what the collection has to offer. I will be buying from it anything that I really like. Humans make mistakes and art sometimes blurs the lines of productivity and insensitivity. It takes a big person to realie these errors and make corrections.

 

[Hypathya]

Do I think Picasso's Guernica it's a beautiful picture or a pleasant sight?? Of course not!!
Do I think it's amazing? Yes. But it's gross, full of pain, anxiety, fear, horror and blood (despite the absence of red). It moves you, like it or not, you'll have something to say once you've stood in front of it... even more if you know what it's about. It was painted not make a room pretty, but to move and build consciousness. There's a very good reason why there's a copy of it at the UN building and why it was covered during the US announcement to go to war at the middle east.

Do I like The Dog by Goya?? Of course not!! Do I think it's amazing? Yes. It looks like an innocent picture, a bit boring. When you notice/read/learn it''s a dog sinking in a sand trap raising his head to catch a last and desperate breath it grosses you and makes you sick to your stomach, nauseated. You get the loneliness, the pain, the anxiety, the suffer, the emptiness, the resignation.

I could give more and more examples but my point is: Art it's an expression, it's not only meant to be beautiful but to communicate a message, an idea, a question, a thought, an emotion... It's meant to move you. The more it moves, the more it keeps you thinking, the more it keeps you feeling, the better.

 

[Blushbaby]

Please sign the petition that has been set up to persuade MAC to donate all profits from the Rodarte collection to the people of Juarez. Over 400 signatures have been added since Friday already.

Rodarte MAC Makeup Collection and Ciudad Juarez

 

[NappyMACDiva3]

Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheTeenageMuse At least the discussion here is civilized. Over in Temptalia-land things are starting to get ugly. I don't think that MACs intentions were bad. Themes in art are oft. inspired by real-world issues. The difference here probably being that you don't consume art/a fashion show. In the same way you consume makeup products. I think that the promo pictures inspired by Juarez are excellent. As they reflect the problems faced there. Just thinking about my own country if MAC were to do a collection around native people and name a product Residential Schools. I'd be really upset. Just because what happened in those schools should not be connected to makeup. But if they were to do a photoshoot of an interpretation of a Residential school then i'd be okay with that... I will still support MAC and will understand if others don't. I still like this collection but I don't think i'll buy factory or juarez. If MAC sells postcards for a charity in Juarez i'll definitely purchase it.

Post Cards making people aware are an excellent idea. MAC should do it to make people even more aware. I would buy them if they gave 100% of the post cards revenue to a cause that is trying to help the Juarez situation.

 

[Meisje]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hypathya I could give more and more examples but my point is: Art it's an expression, it's not only meant to be beautiful but to communicate a message, an idea, a question, a thought, an emotion... It's meant to move you. The more it moves, the more it keeps you thinking, the more it keeps you feeling, the better.

I like the fact that Rodarte was inspired by something dark. Sometimes fashion gets repetitive since designers routinely draw from the same dozen themes in different combinations (Victorian, Asian, the 20s, the 40s... etc).

It's important not to confuse "drawing influence from" with "gloryfying or endorsing."

As for MAC, I think that renaming the products and making a donation is a good response to dealing with the backlash about the names. Let's be realisitic --- MAC does not have the power to stop what's happening. In fact, as a successful company, the best thing they have to offer is monetary support, just as they do with their AIDS campaigns (which all boil down to monetary support).

If you have ideas about what can be done by MAC to help this situation (constructive; not criticism on what has been done), I would encourage you to put them in a calmly worded, succinct letter to MAC.

 

[s_lost]

Quote:

MAC to Donate its Global Profits from the MAC Rodarte Makeup Collection to Benefit Newly Created Women and Girls of Juarez Initiative MAC and Rodarte apologize to the victims and their families in Juarez, the people of Mexico, the Mexican Government and concerned global citizens MEXICO CITY, México, July 29, 2010 – In response to public concern over the limited edition MAC Rodarte makeup collection, set to launch in fall 2010, MAC will donate all of its global profits from this collection to a newly created initiative to raise awareness and provide on-the-ground support to the women and girls in Juarez. MAC and Rodarte are deeply sorry that this makeup collection was so offensive to the people of Mexico and concerned global citizens. This announcement follows a meeting last evening in Mexico City with MAC executives and Mexican government officials, including CONAVIM (Comisión Nacional Para Prevenir y Erradicar la Violencia Contra las Mujeres/National Commission to Prevent and Eradicate Violence Against Women.) During the meeting, held at the Mexican Ministry of Foreign Affairs, this collective group committed to working together on the overall direction of the new initiative to help the women and girls of Juarez and to raise global awareness of their plight. MAC executives reiterated their deep regret and reinforced that it was never MAC’s or Rodarte’s intent to minimize the suffering of the women and girls of Ciudad Juarez. In the coming weeks, MAC and Rodarte will be consulting with members of CONAVIM´s advisory board, as well as other local and global experts, to develop a comprehensive framework that provides grants to local and international organizations with a track record of improving the lives of the women and girls in Juarez. “We are deeply sorry and apologize to everyone we offended, especially the victims, the women and girls of Juarez and their families. We have heard the response of concerned global citizens loud and clear and are doing our very best to right our wrong. The essence of MAC is to give back and care for the community and our initial handling of this makeup collection was not reflective of MAC’s values. MAC and Rodarte are committed to using these learnings to raise awareness on this important issue and to leverage our unique platform to help the women and girls of Juarez,” said MAC President John Demsey. “Rodarte is committed to using creativity for positive social change. As designers, we strongly feel it is our responsibility to use ideas and actions for the good of our global community and are truly sorry for the offense we have caused. We are raising our voices in support of the strong women and girls of Juarez and joining others who are working internationally to improve their lives,” said Kate and Laura Mulleavy, designers of Rodarte. Last week, MAC and Rodarte announced they would also be renaming the products and redesigning the marketing materials associated with the collection. MAC has a longstanding tradition of service in Mexico, supporting important social causes in the country such as HIV prevention and treatment. Since 2002, the MAC AIDS Fund has donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to local entities, including Fundación Eudes, La Casa de la Sal, A.C., Ser Humano, A.C., Mesón de la Misericordia Divina A.C., Pirana Studio, and Fundación Unidos por un México Vivo. MAC has had operations in Mexico since 1999. The brand currently employs more than 150 local professionals.

Source: MAC to Donate its Global Profits from Rodarte Collection to Benefit Women and Girls of Juarez Initiative

 

[s_lost]

Obviously it woul be better that all this mess didn't happen at all, but at least now there is a more appropriate response.

Research before any collection. I hope this incident teaches this to MAC. More than colors and pretty paterns, some names have a huge social meaning.

 

[jungleland]

Well that's great news!

Even if the cynical in me thinks is a way to protect their behinds...but all is well what it ends well, at least now the all Juarez situation is in the spot light and awareness has been spreaded.

And I might think to have a closer look at that nail polishes now!

 

[m4dswine]

I have been doing a lot of thinking about this issue and have finally reached some kind of sensible conclusion.

I agree with Hypatha - when I first read about this Guernica instantly sprang to mind.

I think the problem causing element of this whole thing, is that Rodarte are two white women from fairly priviledged backgrounds as far as I can make out, who have taken an idea and used it, not to build consciousness as Guernica but to satisfy society's need for pretty things.

MAC ballsed up, no question there. They just looked at the pretty things and thought awesome, that would do well. They forgot to think about the story behind the inspiration, and didn't stop to consider whether or not Rodarte have done something crass or not.

 

[Austrian_Babe]

I don´t like the products & colors in this collection personally, and the promo pic is weird so I won´t be buying anything from it.

Also, I wonder why MAC would choose those names, they must have known it was going to cause controversy and drama. This is definitely bad PR and definitely hurt their image.


BUT,
this controversy has been blown way out of proportion by some Youtube gurus, and most of their fans immediately jumped on that bandwagon.

What I don´t understand is why people are so offended. First of all, if it´s really about the crime victims in Juarez, ask them if they really care about the name of an overpriced nail polish people in richer countries buy/don´t buy? People with REAL problems are not going to waste any thoughts on a rich cosmetics company. Whether or not those products have "potentially offensive" names, the situation is not going to change.

Instead of being upset about something silly like this, people should focus their energy on helping to make a change NOW. Because lets be real...once this drama has blown over, how many of the "offended bloggers/Youtuber" are really going to think about the situation in Juarez anymore? Many of the MAC boykott-ers will go back to being MAC groupies as soon as the next pretty, fluffy collection comes out that doesn´t remind us about the terrible things going on in this world.

 

[Susanne]

We just got the new product names! Check out!

http://www.specktra.net/forum/f250/m...t-10-a-166446/

 

[ejsimpsonboyce]

If I hadn't read this thread and the comments on Temptalia I would have had no idea of the situation in Juarez the collection would have come out in New Zealand and I think most people would have had no idea. If Mac were really using this as a platform to raise awareness in an artistic way then the link should have been much clearer. The same goes for Rodarte. I believe that art can be a way to promote discussion but mac really don't seem to have tried to achieve this.
Are make up products art, or are they the tools that you use to create art?

 

[Hilde]

I thought it had been cancelled.

 

[paperfishies]

While the colors in this collection don't appeal to me, I find the promo pic to be absolutely beautiful and stunning. It's haunting and it makes you do a double take. This is the ONLY MAC promo pic that has made me pause and take a long look. It makes you look at beauty in a completely different way. The first thing I thought of when hearing of this collection and seeing the promo pic was the Picasso painting Guernica.

I don't find the collection offensive. I can see how some people may find it a bit tasteless.

What I find more disturbing is that people who are usually crying "FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!" spoke out against this, have plans on boycotting it and find it so disgustingly offensive and rejoice in the possible cancellation of this line. People only want freedom of speech when something isn't offensive to their sensitivities.

From what I've read in the media, 100% of the proceeds from this line were going to benefit the females of Juarez. Now the entire thing has been trashed. Even though I don't find the color concept attractive in this line, I probably would have purchased multiple things in this line to have in my kit and because 100% of the proceeds are going to a charitable cause that I can get down with. Much like the Viva Glam line. I don't like every color but I buy just about every Viva Glam product MAC comes out with, it's nice to have in my kit, nice to give away as presents and it's awesome that the proceeds go to a damn good cause.


I hope everyone on this board who finds this collection tasteless, offensive and sad also finds EVERYTHING produced by Bitchslap just as offensive and disgusting (because face it, names like "bruised bitch" are just as tasteless as something named "sleepwalker". I also hope none of you own anything produced in a sweatshop.

Practice what you preach, don't be a hypocrite.

 

[User38]

^^

Rodarte was cancelled.. as in finished, not ever sold.

What political/ethical repercussions can stem from it? none... why? because Rodarte was just the artistic expression thru makeup of the already existing conditions and situation in Juarez...

repeat: the situation concerning women in Juarez existed before the MAC Rodarte collex.... why is this even coming up again?