Feel like Crying...A Proud Cry

[AdlersMommy22]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimmy i'm not saying you can't be proud...that's completely at one's own descretion. however, i don't feel that people should be given extra points for the adversities they face. everyone has to overcome some type of adversity at some point in their life. i don't feel that the trials they've had to endure makes them a better person than anyone else though. i think people should be judged on their moral character, not on their history, no matter how turbulent it's been. charles manson faced alot of adversity as a child, should we set him free just because he overcame many obstacles? and, no, i'm not comparing obama to charles manson. it's just an example to illustrate my point. wow...seriously?

Whoa.. i agree-- not a past like OURS? Maybe not in THIS country but as a Catholic I can STRONLY disagree with that statement- my "people" had their heads cut off for SPORT. They were fed to lions and tigers for SPORT... they were tied up and had wild bears eat out their insides while they were still alive for SPORT- simply because they were Catholic. I'm Irish too- let's not even get into the persecution the Irish have faced. You can look at ANY race, ANY religion, ANY ethnicity and see MASSIVE persecution... just because blacks were persecuted more recently doesnt make their persecution "worse" than others.

Also, I personally agreed with the original poster- the first thing i said in my post was that I was HAPPY for her... and I am. Ive stood up for african americans so much for my entire life in my "rasict" town... I think its GREAT that Obama is black.. I think its WONDERFUL that Palin is a woman.. Im not taking away from that at all.

I was simply pointing out that- as another poster said- if we dont move ON from the past then the past will be our past will be the present forever. I wasnt responding to what the original poster said. My responce to her was that I was happy for her- the rest of my post was moving on responding to other posts. I dont think thats ignorant at all. If anyone believes that thinking we need to move on from the "race" issue is ignorant- then thats exactly the problem that is keeping this country from doing JUST that.

 

[PMBG83]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdlersMommy22 Whoa.. i agree-- not a past like OURS? Maybe not in THIS country but as a Catholic I can STRONLY disagree with that statement- my "people" had their heads cut off for SPORT. They were fed to lions and tigers for SPORT... they were tied up and had wild bears eat out their insides while they were still alive for SPORT- simply because they were Catholic. I'm Irish too- let's not even get into the persecution the Irish have faced. You can look at ANY race, ANY religion, ANY ethnicity and see MASSIVE persecution... just because blacks were persecuted more recently doesnt make their persecution "worse" than others. Also, I personally agreed with the original poster- the first thing i said in my post was that I was HAPPY for her... and I am. Ive stood up for african americans so much for my entire life in my "rasict" town... I think its GREAT that Obama is black.. I think its WONDERFUL that Palin is a woman.. Im not taking away from that at all. I was simply pointing out that- as another poster said- if we dont move ON from the past then the past will be our past will be the present forever. I wasnt responding to what the original poster said. My responce to her was that I was happy for her- the rest of my post was moving on responding to other posts. I dont think thats ignorant at all. If anyone believes that thinking we need to move on from the "race" issue is ignorant- then thats exactly the problem that is keeping this country from doing JUST that.

Well of course a history not like ours. We were lynched for even looking at a white person or just for fun or sport and families torn apart which is evident in our communities today. Yes I understood what you were relaying in your first post, but for the most part when dealing with replies to this thread Im referring to african americans pasts specifically. Its not ignorant that we need to move on but, that doesnt mean everyone with follow suit. And no just b/c you were from a racist town I wouldnt assume that right of the bat in relation to you.

 

[PMBG83]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdlersMommy22 Whoa.. i agree-- not a past like OURS? Maybe not in THIS country but as a Catholic I can STRONLY disagree with that statement- my "people" had their heads cut off for SPORT. They were fed to lions and tigers for SPORT... they were tied up and had wild bears eat out their insides while they were still alive for SPORT- simply because they were Catholic. I'm Irish too- let's not even get into the persecution the Irish have faced. You can look at ANY race, ANY religion, ANY ethnicity and see MASSIVE persecution... just because blacks were persecuted more recently doesnt make their persecution "worse" than others. Also, I personally agreed with the original poster- the first thing i said in my post was that I was HAPPY for her... and I am. Ive stood up for african americans so much for my entire life in my "rasict" town... I think its GREAT that Obama is black.. I think its WONDERFUL that Palin is a woman.. Im not taking away from that at all. I was simply pointing out that- as another poster said- if we dont move ON from the past then the past will be our past will be the present forever. I wasnt responding to what the original poster said. My responce to her was that I was happy for her- the rest of my post was moving on responding to other posts. I dont think thats ignorant at all. If anyone believes that thinking we need to move on from the "race" issue is ignorant- then thats exactly the problem that is keeping this country from doing JUST that.

Well of course not a past not like ours an no MAYBE in this country DEFINITIELY in this country(what other country would I most likely be talking about), this is where we were ripped from our country and brought to. Yes were lynched for looking at a white person the wrong way and for fun. Couldnt talk back to a white person had to say a white doll was pretty and a black doll was ugly and I could go on and on as well. I wont even start on the effect its had on the black family. No one said we had it worse, but the resounding effects make it feel that way. No its not ignornant to think racism should be erradicated but that doesnt mean everyone will follow suit with that idea.

 

[AdlersMommy22]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PMBG83 Well of course a history not like ours. We were lynched for even looking at a white person or just for fun or sport and families torn apart which is evident in our communities today. Yes I understood what you were relaying in your first post, but for the most part when dealing with replies to this thread Im referring to african americans pasts specifically. Its not ignorant that we need to move on but, that doesnt mean everyone with follow suit. And no just b/c you were from a racist town I wouldnt assume that right of the bat in relation to you.

And Catholics were beheaded and cooked in a boiling pot of water then fed to pigs for simply EXISTING. Im not taking away from what ANY religion or race or ethnicity has faced throughout our world's history.

There will always be hatred, there will always be prejudice, there will ALWAYS be rascism. Wether we chose to hold onto the past and grudge towards those around us is the test of time that our country will have to endure.

What happened to blacks over 200+ years in our country is not just horrific- its a test to the "freedom" that americans fought for from mother countries.. its a brutal, sad, horible part of our history. Its a part of our history that as a caucasion woman- I am so proud to say that I have no let affect the way I treat anyone of color now. To treat any person of color with ANY sort of prejudice or rascism is not any better than keeping alive the past of this country that I so much hate and despise with every bone in my body.

Thank God for Obama's views and strategy for taking this country to another level. As an Irish-Catholic conservative republican I am more than happy to be voting for such an amazing man with amazing strengths from my home state based on his stance on the issues- not his race.

I am also proud of obama for his reference to his mother and grandparents after his father left him when he was young. I will be happy to have him as a role model for my own son whos father also abandoned him. Just because you come from a split family doesnt mean anything. Just because you are black doesnt mean anything. You can be anything you want to be in this country and THAT is the past I want to teach to my son.

 

[PMBG83]

As we were killed just for simply being a certain color. My mom's aunt almost was hung in the town sqaure for sleeping with a white man, thanks to my grandmother spotting a lil black rag doll hanging from a nuse(her sister;my moms mom) she was able to book it to Detriot before they hung her. I have respect for Obama for not having harsh feeling towrds the black side of his family after openingly hearing his grandmother say "nigger" and how low down and dirty we were. Hell I commend Faith Evans for not hating whites although her white dad straight out told her mom he would be disowning her and the kids b/c hed be too embarrased to have half black kids. Also I very happy that you are happy. But again being black doesnt keep you from doing anything you want to do in realtion to being that color, but the notions behind being the color is the kicker. Yes its essential to hold onto in the sense "I know its there so Im going to be aware of it". When I have kids I wont make race a primary issue but of course Im going to tell them to beware of it because America certianly will be.

 

[AdlersMommy22]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PMBG83 As we were killed just for simply being a certain color. I have respect for Obama for not having harsh feeling towrds the black side of his family after openingly hearing his grandmother say the "nigger" and how low down and dirty we were. Hell I commend Faith Evans for not haitng white although her white dad straight out told her mom we would be disowning her and the kids b/c hed be too embarased to have half black kids. Also I very happy that you are happy. But again being black doesnt keep you from doing anything you want to do in realtion to being that color, but the notions behind the color is the kicker.

my point here isnt that one group was persecuted more than the other--my point is that you are saying that you are still feeling the effects of the black persecution which is the PROBLEM. no blacks should be feeling any effects now in 2008 for what happened 40+years ago. i think thats exactly what kimmy was saying in her original post when she said "for better or for worse." race is being made an issue when it shouldnt be. but people are going to let it go then everyone needs to or this country will never move on. ever.

 

[PMBG83]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdlersMommy22 my point here isnt that one group was persecuted more than the other--my point is that you are saying that you are still feeling the effects of the black persecution which is the PROBLEM. no blacks should be feeling any effects now in 2008 for what happened 40+years ago. i think thats exactly what kimmy was saying in her original post when she said "for better or for worse." race is being made an issue when it shouldnt be. but people are going to let it go then everyone needs to or this country will never move on. ever.

Well it seemed as though thats the point that was trying to be made overall(not solely by you) b/c everyone kept running down a list of other ethinicities as well when I was trying to stay close to the topic as far as WE go. We most certainly are and Im not only saying we are, it is fact(more like 400/500+ years). Being that it is that way is the problem. From our past it cant or wont be erased probably not in my lifetime. And yes of course race will be made an issue of this topic b/c Ben stated a point and people wondered why which is going to lead to us being proud that a BLACK man made it to this point.

 

[PMBG83]

Quote:

Originally Posted by florabundance People have always been, and will always be, defined/identified somewhat by their race. For better and for worse. Belonging to an ethnicity is something to be proud of, and many people feel either a vocalised OR unspoken pride in those of their ethnic background who are making great achievements - whether publically or privately. Of course, some people might not feel that same pride. Each to their own.

Too true.

 

[PMBG83]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corvs Queen This comment might not have been directed towards me but if it was I want to point out not once did I ever ask "why". I agree with a lot of what Kimmy has posted and I honestly feel that we are coming from the same place. Color is just that, color! Does it make you smarter, better, richer, stronger, faster, entitled? No. I just want everyone to be people. Not an African American Famale Branch Manager or White Male Jailer. Get my point? If it wasn't constantly brought up like it has been for years and years and years then maybe, just maybe people will make a progression into something new and wonderful. Something different than what has been handed down generation by generation.

No that was more into relation with your african american question. Id love for everyone to be just people but while that isnt here yet Ill be aware that it isnt.

 

[couturesista]

Let's just agree to disagree. Thank You Benzito for OP, through all of this it has not been forgotten.

 

[PMBG83]

Of course, everyone wishes that race wasnt such a big deal, but our past makes it a big deal (if we would have never had Africans as slaves, then maybe it wouldnt be an issue, etc).....quote]


Thank you. Also I feel ya with the "looks" deal. My grandfather looked white so most white people in that day would not give my grandmother a hassle when they saw who she was with. Then the flipside my friend who is half black and white is just like you...she looks latina

 

[AdlersMommy22]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PMBG83 Well it seemed as though thats the point that was trying to be made overall(not solely by you) b/c everyone kept running down a list of other ethinicities as well when I was trying to stay close to the topic as far as WE go. Are you saying blacks SHOULDNT be feeling the effects in this day in age? Because we most certainly are. From our past it cant or wont be erased probably not in my lifetime. And yes of course race will be made an issue of this topic b/c Ben stated a point and people wondered why which is going to lead to us being porud that an BLACK made to this point.

Of cours blacks are going to feel the effect of past persecution- what im saying is that NO ONE should be treating blacks with any kind of prejudice from the past.

I think its SO fantastic that this country has progressed so much that we can have a black presidential candidate and a woman vice presidential candidate--- now if we could all just put that ASIDE and focus on the issues- thats when this country will have REALLY progressed... once again-when CONTENT of character and not color of skin is what is the REAL excitment in the polls.

Im not disagreeing with anyone. I completely agree with the original poster- i am so happy that as a black woman she can be excited for the respresentation of her race... I also agree with Kimmy and the other posters who have said that when race ISNT the issue is when things will finally be.. "good" for lack of a better word. When NO ONE makes race an issue

 

[ShugAvery2001]

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Originally Posted by kimmy obama is talking about change...so why don't we take it upon ourselves to set the change in motion? race will be an issue as long as we make it one. once society says "enough is enough," and we all stop playing the respective victim, we can finally fix what's broken. i really, sincerely wish that america could move forward from the whole race issue.

Racism will always be a fact of life .. just like sexism, classism, homophobia and every other ism will always be a fact of life. It's all apart of the human condition.

I think you should re-analyze your assertions about all of 'us' playing the 'respective victim' because minority groups INCLUDING WOMEN are often targeted and victimized because we are not a part of the majority. I mean during this whole election haven't we been reminded of the 'victimization' and 'marginalization' of women?

These are just facts of life.. fortunately we are not living in an age where the degree of hatred overall based on race/sex etc. is not to the degree it was FOR OUR PARENT'S AND THEIR PARENTS...

that being said there are a lot of people INDIVIDUALS that have real beef with anyone that is different from them

 

[PMBG83]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdlersMommy22 Of cours blacks are going to feel the effect of past persecution- what im saying is that NO ONE should be treating blacks with any kind of prejudice from the past. I think its SO fantastic that this country has progressed so much that we can have a black presidential candidate and a woman vice presidential candidate--- now if we could all just put that ASIDE and focus on the issues- thats when this country will have REALLY progressed... once again-when CONTENT of character and not color of skin is what is the REAL excitment in the polls. Im not disagreeing with anyone. I completely agree with the original poster- i am so happy that as a black woman she can be excited for the respresentation of her race... I also agree with Kimmy and the other posters who have said that when race ISNT the issue is when things will finally be.. "good" for lack of a better word. When NO ONE makes race an issue

Yes and youve expressed your opinion in a very sweet way. Yes weve made progress but we have along way to go yet still. NO ONE should be treating us that way but they do and they are...so in that since its just like a condom: id rather have one and not need it then need one and not have it, in relations to supplying myself with enough realism to know its still out there and act/respond accordingly.

 

[PMBG83]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShugAvery2001 Racism will always be a fact of life .. just like sexism, classism, homophobia and every other ism will always be a fact of life. It's all apart of the human condition. I think you should re-analyze your assertions about all of 'us' playing the 'respective victim' because minority groups INCLUDING WOMEN are often targeted and victimized because we are not a part of the majority. I mean during this whole election haven't we been reminded of the 'victimization' and 'marginalization' of women? These are just facts of life.. fortunately we are not living in an age where the degree of hatred overall based on race/sex etc. is not to the degree it was FOR OUR PARENT'S AND THEIR PARENTS... that being said there are a lot of people INDIVIDUALS that have real beef with anyone that is different from them

Exactly. Its still around its just "hush hush" and PC. Although sometimes you catch people slipping and see what they really think or want to say. Which in particular I was never one for someone who is racist to pretend they werent around me, come on out with it so I know who Im dealing with dont be "PC" about. Because I want to keep my attentions on you at all times.

 

[couturesista]

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Originally Posted by PMBG83 Exactly. Its still around its just "hush hush" and PC. Although sometimes you catch people slipping and see what they really think or want to say. Which in particular I was never one for someone who is racist to pretend they werent around me, come on out with it so I know who Im dealing with dont be "PC" about. Because I want to keep my attentions on you at all times.

Now, where have we seen PC and not so PC racism

, hhhhhhhhhmmmmm, let me think for a minute, I know it will come to me

 

[ShugAvery2001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdlersMommy22 my point here isnt that one group was persecuted more than the other--my point is that you are saying that you are still feeling the effects of the black persecution which is the PROBLEM. no blacks should be feeling any effects now in 2008 for what happened 40+years ago. i think thats exactly what kimmy was saying in her original post when she said "for better or for worse." race is being made an issue when it shouldnt be. but people are going to let it go then everyone needs to or this country will never move on. ever.

Ummm don't know if you've ever taken a psychology class in college or not, but uhh you can't expect for a people who were considered less than human and souless for GENERATIONS are going to somehow not pass some of what was ingrained in them to their children. It just doesn't work like that. it's just like your children's view of themselves will partially be shaped by how they perceive you.. well what if you were a slave.. what if it was illigal for you to read.. what if scientist classified you as less intelligent.. what if you were educated but being to uppity could get you hung... children see, hear, and internalize these things. It has an impact.
It still impacts the native americans!!! The holacaust still impacts the jewish people.
Just like put yourself in iraq right now as a 5 year old and imagine who your perception of yourself AND THE WORLD will be shaped growing into adulthood.
You don't experience these types of traumas and not experience GENERATIONAL impacts.

And honestly we're not talking about ancient history. My mothers family is from mississippi .. my grandmother is still alive and lived under jim crow.. you don't just erase things like that

Race doesn't have to be 'made' an issue. Race is always used especially in politics to divide... at least obama is using it to try and unify and find common ground as far as race is concerned which makes sense since he's bi racial.

On that note .. we probably should squash this thread because I think peoples opinions on things like this or their willing to understand depend solely on their educational level AND/OR their closeness to the issue.

 

[AdlersMommy22]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PMBG83 Yes and youve expressed your opinion in a very sweet way. Yes weve made progress but we have along way to go yet still. NO ONE should be treating us that way but they do and they are...so in that since its just like a condom: id rather have one and not need it then need one and not have it, in relations to supplying myself with enough realism to know its still out there and act/respond accordingly.

Oh I completely agree- without being realistic and educated there is NO way one can defend themself in this day in age. I think being educated is exactly what everyone in this country needs in order to progress past the "ignorance" or rascism.

Im going to say something- and I do not want ANYONE to get offended- because i do not mean it in an offensive way what-so-ever. I am not rascist... I more than anything believe in the equality of blacks and ANY colored americans. With that being said... I think one of the issues here than some people are getting upset about- and another thing kimmy meant by "for better or worse" is this:

If you (and by you i do not mean anyone as an individual on this board and im not directing this towards anyone in particular) expect me to treat you as an equal... if you expect respect as an equal from me- then I expect you to treat yourself as an equal. I expect you to look at yourself as a colored (whatever color that may be) american and an EQUAL to EVERYONE else in this country. I dont believe that you should have any extras or any thing taken away from you just because you are black, yellow, brown..whatever you may be.

I also think thats what was meant by "respective victims.".... if minorities dont stop looking soley at the past and agonizing over it and playing the "victim card" (and by this i mean women as well.. im talking ALL minorities) then how do you expect EVERYONE ELSE to treat you as an equal????

Yes, past was hard for MANY minorities in this country... yes it was a dark, evil past that i am NOT proud of... but for CHANGE.. for the exact change kimmy and obama are talking about- then everyone needs to start respecting themselves and becoming more independent and stop relying on race as an excuse.

 

[ShugAvery2001]

Just a quick note..
Knowing the history and/or acknowledging injustice whether past or present doesn't mean that individuals can't or shouldn't get along with people who 'seem' different.

I have white friend's and live in an 'integrated' community (a rarity in chicago)

and I teach my kids not only about black history in the states but also I try to explain to them other examples of the majority/minority dynamic whether it's indigenous indians in mexico or ethic tensions in certain african countries or the holocaust or how we treat people who WE THINK act or look different from us or our supposed group...

I wanted to make that clear so that nobody walks away talking about 'them' or 'they' or how 'they' think

this is a pivotal time in this country for all of us... and alot is at stake

 

[PMBG83]

Quote:

Originally Posted by couturesista Now, where have we seen PC and not so PC racism , hhhhhhhhhmmmmm, let me think for a minute, I know it will come to me

LOL! Im KNOW youll come up with it.