Fitna - Quite an interesting film

[Dizzy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreamPuffer There is nothing you can say that would justify killing over hundred thousand people with the use of an Atomic bomb. That was the most shameful thing this country had ever done. Not only did innocent Japanese people get MURDERED but thousands born after the war became sick and died because of radiation. That was and is an absolute disgrace to this nation. For you to insinuate that it was the only thing that could have been done is absolutely disgusting.

1. I never tried to justify it. I explained the historical context that it was bigger than some stereotypical American sitting behind a desk pondering where he could test out the effects of of a bomb and just happened to pick Japan for shits and giggles.

I never said it was okay.
I never insinuated it was okay.
I never suggested it was the only option.

Fact remains it was a decision that was not solely motivated by the situation in Japan, but that political negotiations happening between USSR and USA and, a lesser extent, Great Britain motivated it.

Whether it's shameful/a disaster/embarrassing/a low point/a horrible decision/etc. has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making.

2. You absolutely need to drop the attitude you've had towards me. Whether or not you agree with me is of none of my concern- to say that my attitude is disgusting and, in a previous post, insinuate that I'm 'ignorant' is uncalled for and inappropriate.

I've not attacked you, nor have I called you anything at all. I've not called your ideas ignorant or suggest that they are distasteful; I've attempted to debate them on merit. I'd expect you to do the same.

 

[CreamPuffer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dizzy We're not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. We've never claimed that; it's often insinuated that because we're proud of our country, we look down on other nations, which is far from the reality. But it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation we're in. Our economy is crashing, we're leading peace-keeping missions abroad, we've got a situation in the ME that is tricky and not making anyone on any side happy, we're in the middle of a crisis at home, but we still donate and provide more aid abroad than most nations, we're bashed by all angles for intervening in foreign affairs yet we're still bashed for not intervening in foreign affairs, etc. We can't win, we know this. But that isn't going to stop us from trying, and that isn't a guarantee we won't screw something up, but it's better than sitting aside and doing nothing. Until another country steps up and does something, what other viable choice do we have? (Viability being key: unilateral withdrawal and isolation are not viable; they're idealistic)

You are right! We are not perfect, nobody is. I love this country and it is one of the best countries in the world. The issue is that others expect us to be concerned with world issue because we are one of the most prominent nations in the world. We know it and are not shy about saying it either. As a leader we are expected to lead and be an example for those who would like to join our rank one day. Sometimes we lead flawlessly but sometimes we completely fail.
With this administration we've had a lot of blunders. We get into situations where we have no business being and ignore those we need to give attention too. For example, Iraq is a complete disaster. We had no business going into an all out war, where Iraq is concerned. We should have finished the fight in Afghanistan and found that monster Osama. We did not go into Iraq to liberated the Iraqis like we state but went in for our own selfish gain. Bush Jr. wanted to finish the fight his daddy began and though we would bask in all the oil glory. If we really wanted to free Iraqis from Saddam's oppressive rule then why don't we bother liberating others. Fidel's ass has been untouched for years or what about all those dictators and warlord in Africa. Oh, I know because we have nothing to gain. Did you know that while Bush was giving his beautiful speeches about how we are liberating Iraqis and letting democracy flourish, we were also supporting another dictator in oppressing his people and silencing the democratic spirit. The US had a wonderful relationship with the president of Uzbekistan, an alliance that came to be during the invasion of Afghanistan. They let us use their base and we give them money. In the meantime that country had and has one of the worst human rights record. He had canceled the second election all together and began his second term without being elected. Plus he is now on his third term, how is that possible in a country that is supposed to be democratic? He initiated a killing of an entire town because they dared to protest against his rule.

Other examples:

*We at first abandoned Darfur and after millions were killed finally decided to show support.
*We support Tibet and yet our government will not officially condemn China because we do not want to ruin our relationship with one of the fastest rising nations in the world.
*We help Kosovo separate from Serbia even though it's Serbian land because we want to get on the good graces of some Muslims. (Can you imagine Europe recognizing Texas as a separate country?)
*We entered World War II after Pearl Harbor got bombed by the Japanese.
*We at first turned away thousand of Jews during WWII. (the last two have nothing to do with this Administration obviously but I though those very important.)

I just wish people realized that our government does things out of greed and personal gain and not out of the goodness of their wonderful hearts. A lot of times we are perfectly fine seeing others suffer and turn our head. Until, of course there are international pleas and criticism directed our way and then we get involved simply to save face. Yes, we do some wonderful things but that's mostly the American everyday people who donate money and give support to others. I wish countries would help other simply because it's the right thing not for some political gain or whatever.

 

[CreamPuffer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dizzy 2. You absolutely need to drop the attitude you've had towards me. Whether or not you agree with me is of none of my concern- to say that my attitude is disgusting and, in a previous post, insinuate that I'm 'ignorant' is uncalled for and inappropriate. I've not attacked you, nor have I called you anything at all. I've not called your ideas ignorant or suggest that they are distasteful; I've attempted to debate them on merit. I'd expect you to do the same.

Freedom of Speech, your own words if I remember correctly.

 

[CreamPuffer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dizzy I'll agree that nobody has a right to kill anyone, and frankly I don't think majority of people have a desire to, but appeasement doesn't work. Criticisms don't appear to have any influence, and debates around a table seem to go nowhere with false promises and inadequate compromises. What other options are there?

Actually the above does insinuate that you think it was justifiable and the only way. That's why I though that you were in support of it. You did not say anything that showed that you were against it so I just assumed. I apologize if I misunderstood you, you should have made yourself more clear. I did not mean to hurt your feelings or anything, I'm just very passionate about particular issues. As for before in regards to the term "ignorant" it was a mistake on my part. I meant to refer to someone who was not fully conscious of all factors and such. I could not come up with a proper term and misused the above. Again, I apologize for that.

 

[athena123]

Hmmm.... half in jest and half in earnest. Should we start a new thread titled "Let's Beat up on America", or "Please list everything America has done wrong" so we can get back on topic re: Why it is that muslim extremists threaten anyone who criticizes them with death?

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreamPuffer Freedom of Speech, your own words if I remember correctly.

I'll only point this out once, "Freedom of Speech" doesn't generally apply on a privately owned message board.

 

[CreamPuffer]

There really was no need for that. Forgive me for expressing my opinion. Did you even read my entire text? I was not beating on America as a whole, just on this administrations. I also praised our country int he same post, so no need to jest. Nobody here is starting some "hate on US" movement. Also it's US not America. If I remember correctly, I said nothing about Canada, Mexico or South America.

As far as why it is that Muslim extremists threaten anyone who criticizes them with death?

Well, lets see. Because they are extremists. There that question has finally been answered, next thread. By the way, that was not the initial point of the thread but the movie, "Fitna". The first couple of responses were talking about the Islam religion and it being violent, that's what I got anyway. It seemed like the man was making a point of saying that the "Koran" teaches it's followers to be violent. Hence my first response was in defense of Islam as a whole. I was not stating extremists have a right to get angry over that movie or whatever. I was simply stating that the movie was actually insulting more so then being an intellectual criticism of Islam. Does that make sense? God, I can never convey my thought through writing properly. I'm sorry.

 

[CreamPuffer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer I'll only point this out once, "Freedom of Speech" doesn't generally apply on a privately owned message board.

Yes, they only apply to newspapers, television, internet, etc.... Should I make a youtube video to convey my feelings and send you a link next time? I'm sorry I didn't realize that expressing one's feelings and views is prohibited on a privately owned message board or if it is done on one then it is not constituted as an expression of one's feeling (hence freedom of speech).

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreamPuffer *We help Kosovo separate from Serbia even though it's Serbian land because we want to get on the good graces of some Muslims. (Can you imagine Europe recognizing Texas as a separate country?)

bah. I wish they would. Texas is one of the few entities who could legitimately support itself (minus the leeching properties of illegal immigration).

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreamPuffer Yes, they only apply to newspapers, television internet, etc.... Should I make a youtube video to convey my feelings and send you a link next time.

You can make whatever you want, provided it's within the boundaries of the media you're using. If it's against the TOS for youtube, then I wouldn't suggest you do it, as it would be wasted effort on your part and would simply be removed.

 

[CreamPuffer]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer bah. I wish they would. Texas is one of the few entities who could legitimately support itself (minus the leeching properties of illegal immigration).

LOL. As far my youtube video being taken down, I would be shocked. Have you seen the things they have on there.

Have you seen the fat fetish vids? Don't ask, it was by accident I swear. But then I had to see more and my favorite was fat slap. All I can say is, "horsey"

 

[Shimmer]

I've googled enough to know what that is and yeah. Gross.