I Am F***in Appalled And Disgusted!

[reesesilverstar]

Thank you guys for taking on that chick who called Islam disgusting before I opened up this thread again. You guys saved me from myself, lol!

Alot of things I see being portrayed as "Islam" make me stop and wonder. It seems to me that it is more a culture that has gotten mixed up with a religion. All the oppression is not written in the Qur'an - which should really be the guide that ppl use to live by and if ppl did in fact read the Qur'an as instructed they would see that, rather than wait for somebody to tell them how it should be done. I mean, Muslims follow Muhammad (pbuh), so look at his own life. How he dealt with ppl especially the women, and it is obvious that what these ppl practice is NOT Islam. But in the Qur'an, Allah says His book is both a guide and a warning for mankind and that ppl would do things like this, make mischief on the earth and say it's for the cause. So I'm not surprised.

There's alot of ignorance and hypocrisy going on both in the Muslim world and in the West - the muslim world for not representing the common sense that is Islam and getting caught up in rituals and cultural practices, and the West for taking the negative images the media sends out and not doing it's own research into the religion that it finds so base, backward and as some say "disgusting."

 

[Shadowy Lady]

guys, I don't think Superkaz meant to offend anyone, just check out the second sentence:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Superkaz No offense to anyone but this is such a disgusting country and religion. I wish I could help every single one of those women and children and get them hell out of there.

It's wrong to call a country disgusting, but I don't think she meant to insult anyone. Mainly she was angry on behalf of the women I guess

Quote:

Originally Posted by reesesilverstar Thank you guys for taking on that chick who called Islam disgusting before I opened up this thread again. You guys saved me from myself, lol! Alot of things I see being portrayed as "Islam" make me stop and wonder. It seems to me that it is more a culture that has gotten mixed up with a religion. All the oppression is not written in the Qur'an - which should really be the guide that ppl use to live by and if ppl did in fact read the Qur'an as instructed they would see that, rather than wait for somebody to tell them how it should be done. I mean, Muslims follow Muhammad (pbuh), so look at his own life. How he dealt with ppl especially the women, and it is obvious that what these ppl practice is NOT Islam. But in the Qur'an, Allah says His book is both a guide and a warning for mankind and that ppl would do things like this, make mischief on the earth and say it's for the cause. So I'm not surprised. There's alot of ignorance and hypocrisy going on both in the Muslim world and in the West - the muslim world for not representing the common sense that is Islam and getting caught up in rituals and cultural practices, and the West for taking the negative images the media sends out and not doing it's own research into the religion that it finds so base, backward and as some say "disgusting."

I respectfully disagree with some of this. I'm aware that the vast majority of muslim world is moderate. I also agree that calling a country disgusting because their ppl are muslim is pushing it way too far. Especially when you have "zero" information about these ppl and the root cause behind the current state of their countries.
However, I would say that Islam's treatment of women is far from perfect. This can be a long discussion maybe for another thread or maybe too controversial for here. But there are definietly many examples of inequality between the sexes in Quran and Hadith.
I'm not trying to offend anyone either. I just don't believe religions (any of them) are perfect. Ppl should be able to discuss them not get angry when someone finds something wrong in a holly book. I find this to be the case though unfortunately...

 

[Mabelle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lapis Actually FGM is more a African tradition that was enfolded into some of African Muslim traditions, but it is primarily African and has been around about as long a Christ. So can't blame the religion for that.

I knew that FGM was predominantly in African Countries, but i thought that it was in the Middle East too? Am i misinformed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jinni It's pretty ridiculous to say something that is extremely offensive and hurtful to an entire nation and one of the largest religions in the world and then add "no offence". I know there are muslim girls on Spectra, and calling their religion disgusting is ... well... disgusting. Any religion practiced in the extreme is bad news. Just look at Christianity and the various crusades over the years. Religion is often used as an excuse to oppress others, but that doesn't mean a particular religion is disgusting.

Thank you for replying to this. I saw the post in Question and really had to restrain myself. I tend to react and spew out insults... and thats never good. So i waited for someone else to respond (that i agree with) so i can just say Right on!!! I 100% agree with you're post.

 

[Shadowy Lady]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mabelle I knew that FGM was predominantly in African Countries, but i thought that it was in the Middle East too? Am i misinformed?

I have never heard of FGM practice in Middle East and I have lived there. It's an African tradition and is still practiced there (though not quite frequently). Do you mind sharing the source that said FGM was also a ME thing?

 

[Mabelle]

I don't remember where i heard/read it. I probably got my facts mixed up. Sorry about that. I should have checked before i posted that!

Thanks for letting me know though.

Edit: I just checked Wikipedia (i know, def. not 100% reliable!) but this is what i read about FGM in the middle east

Whilst FGM is widely practiced out in the open by Africans of varied faiths, it is practiced in secrecy in some parts of the Middle East. In the Arabian peninsula, Types I and II FGM is usually performed, often referred to as Sunna circumcision especially among Afro-Arabs (ethnic groups of African descent are more likely to prefer infibulation). The practice occurs particularly in northern Saudi Arabia, southern Jordan, and northern Iraq (Kurdistan) [34][35]. In the Iraqi village of Hasira, a recent study found that 60 percent of the women and girls reported having undergone FGM[36]. Before the study, there had been no solid proof of the prevalence of the practice. There is also circumstantial evidence to suggest that FGM is practiced in Syria and Kurdistan.[37][38] In Oman, a few communities still practice FGM; however, experts believe that the number of such cases is small and declining annually. In the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia, it is practiced mainly among foreign workers from East Africa and the Nile Valley.

Female genital cutting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
it was under the prevalence section.

 

[Shadowy Lady]

^^ thanks, it makes me shiver when I hear of this. There was a movie produced a while ago about FGM is Eastern Africa and I couldnt even get through 10 minutes of it

 

[Mabelle]

i know. it's absolutely horrific. I remember hearing about it when i was really little... like 7. Their was a model (i think?) on the Oprah show. She was African, and i believe she had come out in the open about what was done to her. I didn't understand all the details of it, but i had a general idea. Even then i found it terrifying, disgusting, and inhumane.

Last year i read the wiki page on FGM, it's enough to make you physically sick.

 

[reesesilverstar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowy Lady However, I would say that Islam's treatment of women is far from perfect. This can be a long discussion maybe for another thread or maybe too controversial for here. But there are definietly many examples of inequality between the sexes in Quran and Hadith.

When ppl come talking to me about the "inequalities" in the Qur'an as far as men and women, it's rather interesting what they introduce into the dialogue. So maybe there needs to be a general discussion of gender roles and rights from a Western as well as an Eastern stand point and even have a look at indigenous. Open up the discussion to include other countries, cultures and religions. We also need to explore the history of women's issues and the feminist movement. And also take an honest look at the "liberties" that we "have" in the west, assume are better and feel sorry for the women in other countries that don't enjoy them. We also need to look at the impact of those certain liberties on the family and social structure. Because men and women ARE in fact different. Our physical, emotional, psychological makeups are different. So how we interact with the world would be different. Thus our roles would be different. What we both contribute are equally needed and beneficial, but they are different.

 

[reesesilverstar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowy Lady guys, I don't think Superkaz meant to offend anyone, just check out the second sentence: It's wrong to call a country disgusting, but I don't think she meant to insult anyone. Mainly she was angry on behalf of the women I guess

She called someone's religion and country disgusting. It's there in plain black and white. There's no confusing it here. She said it. It offended. She could be angry all she wants for the plight of these women, hell, I'm angry too. Does that give me the right to say "Your religion is disgusting and any country that says it follows it is disgusting too?" I think not. Because we deal with each other from a place of respect. We may not understand it all. But it's about respect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowy Lady I'm not trying to offend anyone either. I just don't believe religions (any of them) are perfect. Ppl should be able to discuss them not get angry when someone finds something wrong in a holly book. I find this to be the case though unfortunately...

Ppl debate holy books all the time. I've attended several debates and discussions between Christianity, Judaism and Islam. To me it's an educational forum. It's not about hurt feelings and being insulting. It's about bringing facts and looking at things logically and if at the end of it you still disagree, then so be it.

Like I've said before, there is no compulsion in religion...

 

[exoticarbcqen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superkaz No offense to anyone but this is such a disgusting country and religion. I wish I could help every single one of those women and children and get them hell out of there.

WOW, you are the absolute epitome of ignorance. How are you going to categorize an entire religion [the fastest growing religion in the entire world and the 2nd largest] because of one thing you heard? Afghanistan is rich and full of history, its a country that is hundreds of years old and which has provided a TON of service to mankind. Maybe you need to crack open a history book and do a bit of reading before making insensitive crass remarks about a country and people you know NOTHING about. You are a complete humiliation to women everywhere. People have misconceptions of Islam, we are not oppressed,in fact, we are liberated. This is because we are no longer valued for something material, such as our good looks or the shape of our bodies, but because of out intellect and hearts.
Muslims countries follow Islamic law and sometimes these laws are interrupted advantageously by the people or organization running that country, such as in this case. People use religion [EVERY RELIGION] to move forward with their agendas and/or excuse their behavior.
Rape happens within monogamous marriages, it does not have to be with a stranger, so please don't sit there and talk about a religion and country you have no knowledge of.

 

[exoticarbcqen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowy Lady guys, I don't think Superkaz meant to offend anyone, just check out the second sentence: It's wrong to call a country disgusting, but I don't think she meant to insult anyone. Mainly she was angry on behalf of the women I guess I respectfully disagree with some of this. I'm aware that the vast majority of muslim world is moderate. I also agree that calling a country disgusting because their ppl are muslim is pushing it way too far. Especially when you have "zero" information about these ppl and the root cause behind the current state of their countries. However, I would say that Islam's treatment of women is far from perfect. This can be a long discussion maybe for another thread or maybe too controversial for here. But there are definietly many examples of inequality between the sexes in Quran and Hadith. I'm not trying to offend anyone either. I just don't believe religions (any of them) are perfect. Ppl should be able to discuss them not get angry when someone finds something wrong in a holly book. I find this to be the case though unfortunately...

really? Please show me some. I have read the Quran over 30 times in arabic and 3x in english, including many versions of the Hadiths. Islam states that a woman is not inferior to a man; both are equal, with complementary roles to provide love, peace, tranquility and comfort to each other; being equal in matters of worship and piety, both carry the same moral stature; and the rights of the husband and wife are determined according to the principle of equality and justice. Islam discourages suppression or subjugation of men or women, and there is no such thing as a "man's world" or a "woman's world"; it is for both. I think you may be confusing your understanding of the religion or your culture for the religion and what it is itself because no where in the Quran does it say that women are unequal to man.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by exoticarbcqen WOW, you are the absolute epitome of ignorance. How are you going to categorize an entire religion [the fastest growing religion in the entire world and the 2nd largest] because of one thing you heard? Afghanistan is rich and full of history, its a country that is hundreds of years old and which has provided a TON of service to mankind. Maybe you need to crack open a history book and do a bit of reading before making insensitive crass remarks about a country and people you know NOTHING about. You are a complete humiliation to women everywhere. People have misconceptions of Islam, we are not oppressed,in fact, we are liberated. This is because we are no longer valued for something material, such as our good looks or the shape of our bodies, but because of out intellect and hearts.

Of course. So much value is placed on intellect and heart that women aren't allowed to be educated, women aren't allowed or encouraged to enjoy their minds or their bodies, they aren't allowed to have an opinion or a position of power.
That...that right there is liberation y'all.
It's liberating to be persecuted for having a vagina, and to be discouraged from masturbating, or from having sexual appetite or thoughts.
Quote:

Muslims countries follow Islamic law and sometimes these laws are interrupted advantageously by the people or organization running that country, such as in this case. People use religion [EVERY RELIGION] to move forward with their agendas and/or excuse their behavior. Rape happens within monogamous marriages, it does not have to be with a stranger, so please don't sit there and talk about a religion and country you have no knowledge of.

And my problem lies with the rest of the Islamic world not speaking out and removing all affiliation with these people. Example...the Westboro Baptist Church. They claim to be Christians/Baptists...no. And EVERY Christian church and organization actively disassociates with them. Vocally. I would love to see that more within the Islamic world, the disassociation from radical and extremist behaviors.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzz There is no such thing as rape in marriages.Everyone has the right to refuse sex and i dont think men push for it either.media makes up shit whts else is new?

The media DEFINITELY made up the night my ex-husband pinned me down and took what he wanted, with me screaming, pushing him away, kicking, and biting him the whole time. They DEFINITELY made up the black eye I gave him with one of my punches. The whole incident was nothing more than a husband being taken care of by his wife.

They definitely made up the knock down dragout we had with him trying to get to it, and they definitely made up the rest of that night too. The whole part where I was trying to shove him off of me with my feet on his shoulders while hitting him with a lamp...that's definitely fictitious.

Really.

 

[jenee.sum]

wow ladies. this is really getting into a religious talk, which i didn't expect. lol although it is part of the whole topic. anywhoo, i don't know much about these religions, so i won't say anything about that. but i do appreciate the discussion here. i just hope we continue to respect others and their religions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by reesesilverstar We may not understand it all. But it's about respect.

exactly. we do not have to agree with someone else's religion, but please be respectful of it and the people who follow it.

and to Shimmer and Fataliya:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer The media DEFINITELY made up the night my ex-husband pinned me down and took what he wanted, with me screaming, pushing him away, kicking, and biting him the whole time. They DEFINITELY made up the black eye I gave him with one of my punches. The whole incident was nothing more than a husband being taken care of by his wife. They definitely made up the knock down dragout we had with him trying to get to it, and they definitely made up the rest of that night too. The whole part where I was trying to shove him off of me with my feet on his shoulders while hitting him with a lamp...that's definitely fictitious. Really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fataliya Well, as someone who WAS raped by her husband, I can tell you it DOES and CAN happen. Just because I'm married to someone doesn't mean he owns me, or my sexual organs. If I say no, I mean no. If you throw me down and TAKE IT, THAT IS RAPE. ETA: I should have said ex-husband. We were married at the time, we aren't anymore.

i'm so sorry to hear that you ladies had to go through such a terrible experience. we hear it all the time, we know it happens, but it's always hard to hear it from someone who's actually gone though it. thanks for sharing. now we ALL know rape DOES and CAN happen in marriage.

now i do not have the source from this...it would either be from Toronto Star, Toronto's Metro, or Toronto 24 Hours newspaper....but i read that there was an update about the law. An Afghani spokesperson? had said that there was some sort of misunderstanding about the law...that it wasn't to legalize rape within marriage, but that the woman has a DUTY to meet her husband's sexual needs, and that refusal would result in the husband's right to not feed her.

oh....ya THAT makes the law better. sure...pass it!

what's the difference between starving your wife and starving your child? starving a human being is starving a human being. shit is ridiculous.

if anyone can find a hard copy of the source...like an online article, please link it. cuz i read it in a newspaper like 2 weeks ago.

 

[Shimmer]

It can and it does happen, but for me at least, life goes on. I'm not angry about it anymore or anything like that. I just get supremely irritated when people say it couldn't be rape, because we were married.

 

[Mabelle]

Oh dear. Shimmer, I'm very sorry that happened to you.


Seriously though, i have never heard "the media" talk about rape within marriage... Has anyone else? It's not really something people talk about (in Canada at least), so how could they have "made it up"?
Ridiculous.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mabelle Oh dear. Shimmer, I'm very sorry that happened to you. Seriously though, i have never heard "the media" talk about rape within marriage... Has anyone else? It's not really something people talk about (in Canada at least), so how could they have "made it up"? Ridiculous.

Truly, no worries.

I don't tell the story so anyone can pity me or anything like that, I tell it so people know it DOES HAPPEN.
Me?
I'm good.

 

[jenee.sum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Truly, no worries. I don't tell the story so anyone can pity me or anything like that, I tell it so people know it DOES HAPPEN. Me? I'm good.

yup, what doesn't break you only makes you stronger.

 

[Shimmer]

More like...
I'm not a victim of rape. I'm a survivor of rape.

 

[jenee.sum]

hehe TOTALLY, woman