I Am F***in Appalled And Disgusted!

[exoticarbcqen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Of course. So much value is placed on intellect and heart that women aren't allowed to be educated, women aren't allowed or encouraged to enjoy their minds or their bodies, they aren't allowed to have an opinion or a position of power. That...that right there is liberation y'all. It's liberating to be persecuted for having a vagina, and to be discouraged from masturbating, or from having sexual appetite or thoughts. And my problem lies with the rest of the Islamic world not speaking out and removing all affiliation with these people. Example...the Westboro Baptist Church. They claim to be Christians/Baptists...no. And EVERY Christian church and organization actively disassociates with them. Vocally. I would love to see that more within the Islamic world, the disassociation from radical and extremist behaviors.

Ok, now your confusing what the pure Islam is vs. what groups like the Taliban have come to interrupt Islam has. Where in any sort of industrialized modern society are Islamic women being kept from getting an education, forced to stay home veiled? Power? are you kidding me, do you even realize how many Muslim women are in seats of power? its no different then saying in America women are not treated equally as men. Women do not get the same pay as men, women do not get equal treatment as men and so on. I think its irrational to say that collectively Muslim women are forced to stay home. Those are extreme situations dictated by the laws in which those women live. It is well known that Muslims, Christians, jews etc ALL have used religion as a basis to push their own agendas.

 

[jenee.sum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by exoticarbcqen Ok, now your confusing what the pure Islam is vs. what groups like the Taliban have come to interrupt Islam has. Where in any sort of industrialized modern society are Islamic women being kept from getting an education, forced to stay home veiled? Power? are you kidding me, do you even realize how many Muslim women are in seats of power? its no different then saying in America women are not treated equally as men. Women do not get the same pay as men, women do not get equal treatment as men and so on. I think its irrational to say that collectively Muslim women are forced to stay home. Those are extreme situations dictated by the laws in which those women live. It is well known that Muslims, Christians, jews etc ALL have used religion as a basis to push their own agendas.

i think she was referring to those who live in countries where woman ARE oppressed and looked at as second class citizens. not Islamic women who live in countries that value freedom of speech, act, etc and equal rights such as America.

 

[jayleelah]

I'm offended.
I'm a Muslim and live a normal life. Stereotypes *sigh*

And some Afghan girls may also be disgusted by what you wrote... The government of a country is NOT the country. People like you and I are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superkaz No offense to anyone but this is such a disgusting country and religion. I wish I could help every single one of those women and children and get them hell out of there.

 

[jayleelah]

I agree with you. Never heard of FGM practice in Middle East and neither in North African countries like in Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowy Lady I have never heard of FGM practice in Middle East and I have lived there. It's an African tradition and is still practiced there (though not quite frequently). Do you mind sharing the source that said FGM was also a ME thing?

 

[Shadowy Lady]

Quote:

Originally Posted by reesesilverstar She called someone's religion and country disgusting. It's there in plain black and white. There's no confusing it here. She said it. It offended. She could be angry all she wants for the plight of these women, hell, I'm angry too. Does that give me the right to say "Your religion is disgusting and any country that says it follows it is disgusting too?" I think not. Because we deal with each other from a place of respect. We may not understand it all. But it's about respect.

I agreed that it was offensive, I just don't think she meant it based on the second part of her post. I've heard much worse through my life. I've seen ppl who wanted to be offensive and have taken pride in it. This to me doesn't compare though it's not good. I guess we have to agree to disagree.
I'm happy you're open to debates. I enjoy a good debate and you seem to be an intelligent person. I'm still kinda sorry I brought this up to coz in order to debate, you have to get to the roots of religion. I just don't think this is the type of forums for heavy religieous debates. I will pm you with my questions though when I get home

Quote:

Originally Posted by exoticarbcqen really? Please show me some. I have read the Quran over 30 times in arabic and 3x in english, including many versions of the Hadiths. Islam states that a woman is not inferior to a man; both are equal, with complementary roles to provide love, peace, tranquility and comfort to each other; being equal in matters of worship and piety, both carry the same moral stature; and the rights of the husband and wife are determined according to the principle of equality and justice. Islam discourages suppression or subjugation of men or women, and there is no such thing as a "man's world" or a "woman's world"; it is for both. I think you may be confusing your understanding of the religion or your culture for the religion and what it is itself because no where in the Quran does it say that women are unequal to man.

I'm a Persian Canadian as you know. I may have lived here most of my life but I know Persian history and I know what Islam did to it and especially to our women. Trust me, it was not good

The countries that have an Islamic government and follow the word of Quran word by word are the countries in which women are oppressed. Look at Afghanistan under the Taliban...or to a lesser degree, look at Iran! You don't have to agree with me, but please don't tell me that I'm confusing my "culture" with religion. I have a pretty good understanding of religions (the western ones) and that's the reason why I don't want anything to do with them. To each their own though, as long as it's not the government forcing some kinda belief on their ppl or making sexist laws (like the one in discussion).

I pm'd you what I've seen in Hadith

 

[reesesilverstar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Of course. So much value is placed on intellect and heart that women aren't allowed to be educated, women aren't allowed or encouraged to enjoy their minds or their bodies, they aren't allowed to have an opinion or a position of power. That...that right there is liberation y'all. It's liberating to be persecuted for having a vagina, and to be discouraged from masturbating, or from having sexual appetite or thoughts. And my problem lies with the rest of the Islamic world not speaking out and removing all affiliation with these people. Example...the Westboro Baptist Church. They claim to be Christians/Baptists...no. And EVERY Christian church and organization actively disassociates with them. Vocally. I would love to see that more within the Islamic world, the disassociation from radical and extremist behaviors.

Again with the hypocrisy and clear ignorance... Is what you're talking about a religious or a social issue? Where is it spelled out that a muslim society should NOT educate it's women and girls, when in the Qur'an men are instructed to choose intelligent, pious and compassionate women to be their wives? Logically, would that make sense? No... Choosing not to educate a society, is that an issue specific to the muslim world? Be honest. No... Look at the history of education in the world. Look at the debate on intelligent design and why it's not taught in schools. Is the "liberty" of masturbation chastised only in Islam? No... Muslims should always dissociate with the fringe and do so publicly. But has the BASTION of catholicism come out and chastise and remove affiliation with priests who molest little boys, CHILDREN??????? NOOOOOOOO!!!

So like I said before, let's be real when we approach an argument. Don't look at just one. Explore the board.

 

[reesesilverstar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowy Lady I'm happy you're open to debates. I enjoy a good debate and you seem to be an intelligent person. I'm still kinda sorry I brought this up to coz in order to debate, you have to get to the roots of religion. I just don't think this is the type of forums for heavy religieous debates. I will pm you with my questions though when I get home

No problemo chica. Growing up in a Christian family with a Muslim mother would make you wanna seriously wrestle with some ideas lol!

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by reesesilverstar Again with the hypocrisy and clear ignorance... Is what you're talking about a religious or a social issue? Where is it spelled out that a muslim society should NOT educate it's women and girls, when in the Qur'an men are instructed to choose intelligent, pious and compassionate women to be their wives? Logically, would that make sense? No... Choosing not to educate a society, is that an issue specific to the muslim world? Be honest. No... Look at the history of education in the world. Look at the debate on intelligent design and why it's not taught in schools. Is the "liberty" of masturbation chastised only in Islam? No... Muslims should always dissociate with the fringe and do so publicly. But has the BASTION of catholicism come out and chastise and remove affiliation with priests who molest little boys, CHILDREN??????? NOOOOOOOO!!! So like I said before, let's be real when we approach an argument. Don't look at just one. Explore the board.

I have a very dear friend who's Muslim. The guy is just one of the most intelligent, goodhearted, steadfast people I know.
He and I were talking one time about our faiths, etc., and he very plainly said that one of his biggest criticisms of his faith/culture/upbringing is how it treats women. "Women aren't valued in my culture, they don't really count. We're supposed to take care of you, but what you want or how you feel or what you think about something, it doesn't matter, because we're the men and what we say goes."
That's not my opinion. That's the opinion of a Muslim man...and when a Muslim man tells me something like that, it only reinforces my already negative views of the religion*.
Speaking of the qur'an, what does it have to say about a man disciplining his wife? About the measures he can take to be the head of his household? What does it say about the man and his role as the spiritual and physical leader of his household? What does the qur'an have to say about how women are to be treated once a woman has done something that can be interpreted as against the holy word or disrespectful to her husband?
Sure, it's easy to say "Oh, well it says that women are to be chosen for being pious and holy and intelligent", but who determines how pious a woman is, and what her punishment for not being pious enough is?

Quote:

The foster mother struck off for allowing a Muslim girl to convert to Christianity took the child in after she was threatened with an arranged marriage. The woman, a devout Christian, was asked to care for the teenager after the authorities learned of her abusive family background. Her father beat her just for chatting to boys and warned he would haul her off to Pakistan to marry against her will, a friend claimed. But council officials were angered when the girl chose to be baptised. They insist the foster mother failed in her duty to preserve the girl's original religion. As a result, the girl was removed and the foster mother struck off the register last November, despite having worked with children for ten years with a perfect record. Neither the carer, who has looked after more than 80 children, nor the girl, who is now 17, can be identified. But a friend of the girl claimed yesterday: 'Her dad is a very strict Muslim who could get violent. One time he hit her with a belt just because she chatted with a couple of boys. 'Another time he beat her over and over and said he would take her to Pakistan and make her marry. 'She really didn't want that. She was very frightened. Her dad would shout and swear at her and told her that she'd shamed the family. 'Her mother didn't really do anything to protect her.' After the local authority became aware of the situation the girl was removed from her family and placed with the carer, a single mother of two. The foster mother says she initially tried to discourage the girl from attending church and offered to take her to a mosque instead. But the girl, who was 16 at the time, was determined to go to church and after two months chose to be baptised. The woman said it had never occurred to her that she would be taken off from the register. The move has stripped her of her sole income and she has had to move into a one-bedroom flat. Her lawyer Nigel Priestley said the local authority has agreed to review the case next month. It is the start of a process which could lead to her being reinstated as a foster parent. Mike Judge, from the Christian Institute, which is funding her case, said: 'In any free society people must be free to change their religion.' The case follows the controversy over Caroline Petrie, 45, the Christian nurse in Somerset suspended without pay in December for offering to pray for an elderly female patient.

Muslim girl in baptism row was fleeing an arranged marriage | Mail Online
Quote:

However, “the veil” for Muslim women may be the most misunderstood of all and may make Muslim women look oppressed in the eyes of non-Muslims. However, after earnestly studying Al-Quran and Hadith (Islamic Holy Scripture and the Prophet’s practices) 11 years ago, I myself started wearing the veil because I totally agreed that the particular Islamic rule is truly for a woman’s own safety and protection of her mind and body.

?The Contemporary Muslim Woman” Series: Oppressed! GOATMILK: An intellectual playground edited by Wajahat Ali

Yes. It's definitely a woman's job to cover her head and face completely so that she may not be the temptress that leads a man down the path of sin. It's DEFINITELY not on the man's shoulders to control his urges. Obviously, him giving in to sexual thoughts is HER fault, not his own lack of self control.


There's a portion of Gone With The Wind where Scarlett and Rhett are talking about life after Frank Kennedy and Scarlett's widow status, and Rhett expresses his disgust at how American society treated its widows. Scarlett holds to the morals, and is shocked at his cavalier attitude. Rhett responds with "How tightly women cling to the chains that bind them!"

Reading these threads I have much the same thought.

*Islam isn't the only religion I'm critical of. I'm critical of most religions and their practices, but I'm not singling Islam out on its own. I'm also critical of ANY fundamentalist religion, the mormon church, and that quiverfull crap.

 

[reesesilverstar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer I have a very dear friend who's Muslim. The guy is just one of the most intelligent, goodhearted, steadfast people I know. He and I were talking one time about our faiths, etc., and he very plainly said that one of his biggest criticisms of his faith/culture/upbringing is how it treats women. "Women aren't valued in my culture, they don't really count. We're supposed to take care of you, but what you want or how you feel or what you think about something, it doesn't matter, because we're the men and what we say goes." That's not my opinion. That's the opinion of a Muslim man...and when a Muslim man tells me something like that, it only reinforces my already negative views of the religion*. Speaking of the qur'an, what does it have to say about a man disciplining his wife? About the measures he can take to be the head of his household? What does it say about the man and his role as the spiritual and physical leader of his household? What does the qur'an have to say about how women are to be treated once a woman has done something that can be interpreted as against the holy word or disrespectful to her husband? Sure, it's easy to say "Oh, well it says that women are to be chosen for being pious and holy and intelligent", but who determines how pious a woman is, and what her punishment for not being pious enough is? Muslim girl in baptism row was fleeing an arranged marriage | Mail Online Yes. It's definitely a woman's job to cover her head and face completely so that she may not be the temptress that leads a man down the path of sin. It's DEFINITELY not on the man's shoulders to control his urges. Obviously, him giving in to sexual thoughts is HER fault, not his own lack of self control. There's a portion of Gone With The Wind where Scarlett and Rhett are talking about life after Frank Kennedy and Scarlett's widow status, and Rhett expresses his disgust at how American society treated its widows. Scarlett holds to the morals, and is shocked at his cavalier attitude. Rhett responds with "How tightly women cling to the chains that bind them!" Reading these threads I have much the same thought. *Islam isn't the only religion I'm critical of. I'm critical of most religions and their practices, but I'm not singling Islam out on its own. I'm also critical of ANY fundamentalist religion, the mormon church, and that quiverfull crap.

I guess this wasn't really responding to what I said earlier, but it served its purpose for your argument.

But do recognize that you said that it was the opinion of your friend. Not something that was in black and white somewhere. And this is what I keep saying. Rather than have somebody tell us, go read and research it for ourselves. But that wouldn't make sense, because it already gelled with what was in your spirit about the religion.

I will admit that I have read in the Qur'an where it says that a man can beat his wife BUT! after verbally admonishing her many times, not having sex with her or he could choose to leave her if it's too overbearing. So, a man could choose to leave a woman BEFORE he beats her. Do the men choose this way? It's a personal decision. Muslims are instructed that physical violence is ONLY a last resort. They aren't even permitted to fight to further Islam, ONLY if somebody oppresses them and bars them from practicing their religion. Which I'm sure would be the most important thing to a muslim. There are other ways to deal with issues. In the Qur'an it is also written that mankind should be careful of the rights they demand from each other and HOW they demand those rights in the name of their Lord...

 

[reesesilverstar]

I remember reading what that beating entails somewhere. I know it was with something small, ridiculous and small, lol! I hope I find it to post for you.

*Edit* I've chosen not to uphold this promise because I think doing the research makes me an enabler for laziness.

 

[Shadowy Lady]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Of course. So much value is placed on intellect and heart that women aren't allowed to be educated, women aren't allowed or encouraged to enjoy their minds or their bodies, they aren't allowed to have an opinion or a position of power. That...that right there is liberation y'all. It's liberating to be persecuted for having a vagina, and to be discouraged from masturbating, or from having sexual appetite or thoughts. And my problem lies with the rest of the Islamic world not speaking out and removing all affiliation with these people. Example...the Westboro Baptist Church. They claim to be Christians/Baptists...no. And EVERY Christian church and organization actively disassociates with them. Vocally. I would love to see that more within the Islamic world, the disassociation from radical and extremist behaviors.

to be fair, all Western religions discourage masturbating. I know Catholism does, Islam probably took that part straight from them. Also, a lot of women in Islamic world are educated. I can speak for Iran as I've lived there and 65% of university grads are women. I also never met a woman who was a housewife when I lived there (not that there's anything wrong with being a housewife). However, I don't agree that they're educated because Islam tells them so. They're educated because they are modern and have different values.
I really wish there was no such thing as Islamic government...ppl should have their faith if they so desire, but a religious government is a scary concept. I know I sound like a broken record, but it's so true!

 

[jenee.sum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowy Lady to be fair, all Western religions discourage masturbating. I know Catholism does, Islam probably took that part straight from them. Also, a lot of women in Islamic world are educated. I can speak for Iran as I've lived there and 65% of university grads are women. I also never met a woman who was a housewife when I lived there (not that there's anything wrong with being a housewife). However, I don't agree that they're educated because Islam tells them so. They're educated because they are modern and have different values. I really wish there was no such thing as Islamic government...ppl should have their faith if they so desire, but a religious government is a scary concept. I know I sound like a broken record, but it's so true!

well since my forte isn't religion or politics, i'm just gunna take your word for it when you say 65% of university grads in Iran are women and that they are educated. if that's true, that's great! but from what i saw on the news, and from what i hear, there are woman in other countries who aren't as liberated. When i saw the news about this whole issue, there was footage of Afghani men CHASING the women with something that looked like a massive stick/belt/whip! AND they were KICKING them!! --- what did i see the women do? they were running away like a herd of chicken who just got scared by a cayote! it was heartbreaking to see women getting treated like an effin disgusting worthless piece of poo. that's how it looked to me. Now, correct me if i'm wrong, but i just wanna know...isn't Afganistan different than Iran? I'm sure there are differences between their religion and thus their treatment and value of women? i actually wouldn't be surprised if women aren't actually allowed to be educated in Afganistan just from what i saw from the news. i don't see how men who can treat their women like that would want them going to school and being educated and increasing their chances of having power in any way shape or form.

again, i'm not a big religion person, so forgive my ignorance as i do not know much about the religions involved...just tryin to learn something new

 

[Shadowy Lady]

jenee, np

Iran and Afghanistan are totally different. Just because they're both Muslim and neighbour doesn't make them the same. That's like saying US and Mexico are the same because they're neighbour and both mostly Christian. Also, remember that Afghanistan still is and was for a long time ruled by the Taliban who are known extremists. Iran is also currently ruled by a bunch of idiots! It pains me when I hear about them on the news. So the situation in Iran is bad but not as bad as the media might make it look and def not as bad as Afghanistan. You can do some research on both countries to find out as I can go for a while. I think Iranians long civilization history and their pride in their culture will help them in their fight. My honest biggest wish is for the Islamic government to be eliminated, without foreign intervension and in the hands of Iranian people.
Also, don't worry about the religion thing. You can't offend me as I identify myself as an atheist

ETA: here's some links on female university grads in Iran:

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Women graduates challenge Iran

Iran: Number Of Female University Students Rising Dramatically

 

[reesesilverstar]

You know what, I'm getting tired of this... Ppl only go on what the media sends out and that obviously won't change. If you choose to live in ignorance and not make it a personal task to educate yourself, then so be it.

Que sera, sera...

 

[jenee.sum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by reesesilverstar You know what, I'm getting tired of this... Ppl only go on what the media sends out and that obviously won't change. If you choose to live in ignorance and not make it a personal task to educate yourself, then so be it. Que sera, sera...

yes the media sends out a lot of bull crap, but that doesn't mean everything is bull. just some people are more educated with certain topics than others and are able to look at the information given out by the media more critically; like you. no i do not know much about religion, b/c i choose not to learn much about it b/c when i did try in the past, it just kinda aggravated me with the responses i got and the lack of knowledge my "religious" friends had about their own religion. yes i can pop open a text book and read the Quran, but it's just something i'm not that passionate about like you and other ladies are in this thread, whether you love studying religion or belong in one of the religions/cultures being talked about here. it might irritate you that people believe whatever they see and hear in the media....but....like you said, que sera, sera. the best YOU can do is to educate others yourself if you are that passionate about it; which i do see you doing in this thread.

i posted this thread b/c i heard of a ridiculous law about to be passed in a certain country and just wanted to voice my opinion on it. of course it has to deal with religion, since many people make decisions based on their religious beliefs, but if i wanted to debate religion itself, i would have made a thread specifically debating religion. hence, that's why i did not say much about religion at all...lol b/c i am in no position to say anything about religion as i do not know much about it. but if you guys want to talk about religion on here, go ahead. i'm still reading this thread...i just won't say anything about religion.

sorry if my ignorance or lack of knowledge toward religion upset you, but that wasn't my intention. i read all your responses, and was tryin to learn something new. but i somehow got lost in the middle of the dicussion btwn you and the ladies cuz i had no idea wat you guys were talking about...

all i wanted to know is when is it ever okay to rape....

...cuz the law is STUPID.

 

[Shadowy Lady]

Jenee, don't take this stuff too personally. Topics like religion, race and politics always make a discussion very heated. You might not know it but the law you mentioned has everything to do with religion. Also, the moment the word "discusting" was mentioned in this thread, things started going downhill, though I still think ppl stayed civil.

Btw, I hope I answered your question. Like I said I'm not for religion but I always have the urge to correct the misconceptions about my dual culture (be it the Canadian part or the Persian part)

 

[jenee.sum]

hey shadow lady, i know to not take it personally. we can all discuss a topic respectfully

thanks for your clarification!

 

[User27]

I'm not trying to be rude with this post but things got heated despite a lot of people making valid points. I've read this thread from beginning to end and honestly came out with mixed emotions to it all.

To people who are practising Muslims : Belief is always a positive thing despite everyone having religious differences. I know I used to feel that I was truly respected when I prayed in the back of the mosque behind the males and felt this was always a courteous measure. This allowed for females to pray comfortably without males being in the same prayer position accidentally staring you down with ill intent. Is this common? Yes. Eliminates a female from being veiwed lustfully while trying to praise what she views holy.

To people who called the religion disgusting : It's not particularly the religion that is disgusting as much as when people abuse religion which is disgusting. No religion should be called disgusting as that is someone's personal decision to celebrate whatever belief they have. While I saw Shadowy Lady post about being an atheist, I'm pretty much equivalent to her with my views now. I treat people the way I expect to be treated and live a life based on the religious views that were taught to me but choose not to designate myself to one particular religion. I believe there is a higher power but am undetermined of what form exactly it is but still know what is morally right and wrong.

To the people who responded based off what Shimmer said : Though I don't usually check everything she posts, you have to give her space to validate why she feels the way she does. I have had a lot of Muslim friends for a majority of my life and some do feel the way her friend feels about the religion. I may not be perfect for failing at a marriage but was kept under the terms she described. My education was put second place to my arrangement and after we were married, I was married to a man different than my courting stage. When you wake up to your spouse having sex with you while you were asleep or emotionally or physically abusing you because you say no, that is rape. I honestly quit saying no to make my life easier and though I felt him change 6 months in, I stayed for a little over a year. It took me telling my friend Sofia from Pakistan how tense my household was becoming because of fights before I started to stand up for myself. I can tell you about the trust issues you have dating afterwards as well as nightmares you have after enduring something like this. You judge down any guy you attempt to date out of fear they will turn out like the person you were married to before and had faith in as a spouse. Am I bitter? No. I know he only pretended to be a righteous, practicing Muslim who DID have the intent of keeping me as a trapped butterfly in a glass jar. A female knows when they've been raped because of the damage it does to them personally as well as the fear they have when they eventually move forward. My marriage ended in 2004 and I entered therapy to mend myself from the damage one person caused me that was pre-selected for me. Am I better? I have the same view as Shimmer, I'm no victim because I survived and made my life better including better choices as far as who I was personally involved with and who controls my life, which is definitely me this time around.

I didn't write this out of needing pity as I'm comfortable with myself and my choices now. Sometimes girls are kept as a more material posession without having the ability to move forward in their education and choices in their own life. True story, I have now started for my RN 2 years ago after fighting to even become a nursing assistant because I was told my place as a female was to be there for my husband and help him reach where he wanted to be. I helped him build a pizza shop even taking orders assisting him long enough for him to get mad when customers even said that I was a "really sweet girl" and even though I lowered my eyes the whole time and stayed casual; got told I was bringing unneeded attention my own way and fought. Do I think all Muslim males are like the one I married? No. There are some who want to see their wives happy and progress in their own lives. You'd be amazed at the amount of female doctors who are married and have lucrative careers. Did I have to fight for my career? Yes. My husband thought that I was to be by his side or at home unless going to Desi grocery stores where he knew people wouldn't look or make unwanted advances my way. His insecurities eventually dawned on me and made me more knowledged about who I was and wanted to be in my own life. Lesson learned and my life is content with my outcome that I built for myself. Religion can be great if practicing the right way but sometimes people don't practice rightfully and they abuse what should be a beautiful thing. It's known to happen in all religions and I don't think that will change any time soon. Please take this as one person's opinion only but I found this worth writing about and stand behind what I'm posting here.

 

[cupcake_x]

^By why should a woman be viewed lustfully? Why can't the man learn to be a little respectful? I don't see how simply removing the women is the solution to the problem.

 

[Jinni]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cupcake_x ^By why should a woman be viewed lustfully? Why can't the man learn to be a little respectful? I don't see how simply removing the women is the solution to the problem.

I guess that's a common theme in many religions. My guess is that it's because most religions were founded at a time where only men were involved. Obviously they weren't to blame for something like that, so it had to be the sinning, lustful women.