Jena 6

[Indigowaters]

I believe Dr. Phil also thought it was no joke and didn't care about legal issues when he condemned what it meant to people of color who had descendants of people who were hung. Am I right? Quote:

Originally Posted by MACa6325xi I guess this is why Dr. Phil had the young man who was beaten on his show along with his parents.

 

[MACa6325xi]

Yes, that's right. Dr. Phil doesn't mince any words. I think his heart is certainly in the right place. I'm gald that he had all the parties involved on his show.

 

[user46]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CantAffordMAC I don't know what to think. It's not hard for me to believe that a school in the South has plenty of racist students/staff in it. And its not hard to believe that after hanging nooses from a tree, the white students who did this, received a few days' suspension and that was all. I don't think its unbelievable that 6 black students would beat up a white kid, either. It wasn't right, and they shouldn't have done it, but a lot of youngins make mistakes. I have seen so many fights during high school (white against black, black against spanish, black on black, etc) and have even been in one. Suspensions were given, but thats as far as it went. I also think that its quite possible that this white kid may have said something racist/derogatory to these black students in hopes to set them off. I was watching Dr. Phil today, and the Jena 6 story was on. Some caucasion lady defending the white student and his family was on the show, and I find it funny that she wouldn't state what the punishment was for hanging nooses on a tree. She would NOT state what those boys got as a punishment, but continued to say how it was much worse than a simple smack on the hand. Also, the victim's mother claiming that these 6 boys almost killed her son, is a little bit of a stretch to me. He was badly beaten, true. But he was also released from the hospital only a couple hours later. I can't see how that is considered attempted murder. Call something what it is, don't make ridiculous claims, and then say that you aren't racist. Okay, so your son got beaten by 6 black boys, went to the hospital for a couple of hours, and was released and told to go home and put some ice on it and take an advil, and thats attempted murder? NO, it is a bunch of Southern racists who want these boys to go to jail for something that doesn't deserve jail time, IMO. Almost every teen that breaks the law is charged as a juvenile, so why were these boys in an adult jail? If thats the case, I should've been in adult jail last year for starting a fight with a freshman. Why weren't these black students allowed to sit under a tree until last September?? Thats just ridiculous...I think theres far worse things going on in schools around the country than we'd like to believe. Racism still exists, and many people are not afraid to show it. I have no doubt in my mind that many of the white staff at that school are very racist, and would love nothing more than to see the black students receive a punishment they don't deserve, and ultimately have a white only school again. The 6 black students are very wrong for what they did. They should not have beaten that white student up, regardless of what he may have did to provoke them. But not everyone can say that they never make mistakes...especially young teenagers. A punishment is very well deserved, but not jail time. Not charges of attempted murder. Thats ludicrous (sp) plain and simple.

couldnt agree more. if there was a fight up here in the north, they'd get suspended. not put on trial.

 

[aziajs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MACa6325xi I have posted my opinion about this case and I think we all agree to disagree.

I agree. This, like many discussions on the forum, has gotten to a point where it's going around and around. Person A stands strongly behind their statements and views and Person B stands equally as strong. It just goes back and forth and back and forth. I think in the almost 200 comments that have been made in this thread people have expressed themselves as much as is necessary to articulate their viewpoint(s).

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MACpro__* couldnt agree more. if there was a fight up here in the north, they'd get suspended. not put on trial.

Not here, here they go on trial. Zero Tolerance on Campus. :/

 

[SparklingWaves]

I can tell you that would defiantly send me over the edge if I saw a noose. I am not an African American, but I don't have to be to know what that means. I am so sorry about what your ancestors went though. It was wrong, evil and totally horrible. There really isn't any words for awful it was. There is still so much hurt and justifiably so.

I don't know about laws about hanging the noose and that doesn't matter to me. Again, it's what it represents. The problem existed before the noose was hung. There obviously was an invisible line drawn in the sand before it was put up there to reinforce the message. This message is deeply rooted.

Dr. Phil isn't from Louisiana. He is from Texas. There maybe a difference. I can tell you there still is a great deal of bigotry in Louisiana and parts of Mississippi.

There are parts of Mississippi where until just a few years ago a man or woman of color could not be seen walking in the town if they didn't have a Caucasian companion.

There is still a part of Mississippi that remains off the map, because of this very fact. You would have to be from there to even know it still exists.

The KKK is still alive and they don't state it's burning a cross. It is lighting a cross. I feel it's a cult and it's based on hatred. They try to come across as a political forum, but I think many are for Hilter beliefs cloaked with Bible mixed in it.

There are a lot secrets that will never be put in those history books. I think a lot of history books are filled with what the government wants us to know and not the facts.

There is much more behind this Jena story, but you will never hear the real story. The South is full of secrets that no one talks about - black or white. You just don't talk about it. There are crimes that will sadly never be solved.

Some of the youth carry this on and others are totally not aware that it even exists. I can tell you as well that the mixing of race was strictly and in some areas still not tolerated.

Some may not want to believe this, because it's so far off from where they live.

 

[Shimmer]

The South is full so secrets, so is the North, East, and West.

The thing with the nooses, it's bad taste, it's rude, it's not smart, etc., but it's not illegal. It's not illegal to belong to the KKK. It's not illegal to be racist. It's not illegal to be misogynist...
It's illegal to act on those beliefs.


It IS illegal to gang up and kick the crap out of someone, regardless of color or age.

 

[frocher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indigowaters I believe Dr. Phil also thought it was no joke and didn't care about legal issues when he condemned what it meant to people of color who had descendants of people who were hung. Am I right?

I think the world would be a pretty scary place if Dr. Phil called all the shots. He is more concerned about ratings and his bottom line than justice.

I agree that hanging those nooses was wrong and insulting, however we do not have the right to react violently to everything that insults us. That kind of mentality would cause chaos.

 

[little teaser]

dam, it took 6 guys to beat up 1 guy, that is ridiculous and coward imo.
regardless of what there intentions were and even though the guy didnt die doesnt mean it couldnt happen. you dont have to beat someone to a bloody pulp to "kill" them if you know what to do one blow in the right spot could kill a person, i dont think the punishment is harsh, hmmm wonder whos haveing a lesson taught to them now.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Quote:

I don't know about laws about hanging the noose and that doesn't matter to me. Again, it's what it represents. The problem existed before the noose was hung. There obviously was an invisible line drawn in the sand before it was put up there to reinforce the message. This message is deeply rooted.

But the issue lies in that you don't turn it into a black and white issue; specific people hung those nooses. Not that I'm for street justice by any means, but if you think it's necessary to go that route, at least attack the specific people.

Like black people on a whole aren't responsible for every black murderer/rapist/etc., white people on a whole aren't responsible for every racist SOB out there. People get so invested in this "group identity" that they often forget that the group consists of individuals who ultimately control their own actions.

 

[Dizzy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MACpro__* couldnt agree more. if there was a fight up here in the north, they'd get suspended. not put on trial.

That's not true- if someone was beat until the point of a concussion, a swollen eye, loss of vision, etc., they'd be tried without a doubt, plus suspended. It's not the fact that there was a fight- if it was on an even keel you'd get the "boys will be boys" comment, they'd be slapped on the wrist and let go. But if the kid was beat this badly up here, they'd still be trying those kids.

It's not because they fought, it's because Barker has lasting injuries from an unfair and unprovoked fight. 6 on 1 would not just get someone suspended up here, 6 on 1 would demand intervention by appropriate authorities- same thing that's happening in LA.

 

[SparklingWaves]

"The South is full so secrets, so is the North, East, and West. "

I am sorry, but I feel this is minimizing what goes on in the deepest part of the South. Mississippi just outlawed slavery a few years ago. They didn't realize it was on it's books still.

 

[user46]

racism still exists, people. some places more than other as we can see with this situation. and it's a shame.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SparklingWaves "The South is full so secrets, so is the North, East, and West. " I am sorry, but I feel this is minimizing what goes on in the deepest part of the South. Mississippi just outlawed slavery a few years ago. They didn't realize it was on it's books still.

Granted, but the 13th Amendment removed slavery as an issue.

Regardless of 'what goes on' in the deepest part of the south, it doesn't change the fact that though it's immoral and really unethical, racism isn't illegal. Making it illegal would impinge on free expression. The government can't mandate that someone like someone else regardless of skin color or heritage, and IMO, it shouldn't.

 

[wolfsong]

Ive only read the first page at the time of this post, but to add something i havent read:
Regardless of the racial aspects if this happened in London then they would not be facing life sentences. It would be GBH or something to that effect whatever the race (and even age to a point). The intent to kill cannot be proven as there are no witnesses - MANY beatings like these happen on a daily basis in the UK, only how many do we hear of? The boy would have been in hospital for much longer than a few hours if he was at deaths doors. Im not saying its right what happened - there is no justification for violence when it is not self defence or defending others. Even then going above and beyond what is necessary is assult.

I agree with what Shimmer has written about with regards to the attempted rape etc scenario and the fact that racism works both ways. But if one of the boys 'stole' a gun off another boy, surely that would have been used to kill. Wouldnt they have some weapon at hand if murder was on the cards? Mob mentality is a huge factor when it comes to group violence/crime. Humans are as a whole act like a pack of animals when faced with basic emotions. What was a beating COULD have easily been a death, but it wasnt.

There is discrimination everywhere and concerning all ethnic groups - take for instance a town in England having a cafe put up staff vacancy signs only in Polish. Or council houses/flats being available first to certain minority groups above white people. This is not right, it is as shameful as racism towards someone because they are black or Asian.
To me anyone who puts those of a different race above their own so as to be PC is commiting a form of racism - there is nothing equal about that.

Saying that nooses doesnt necessarily mean the KKK/racism is true to a point. The swastika doesnt mean Nazism, its a 3000 year old symbol that has been used in a multitude of cultures. It was used to represent life, sun, power, strength and good luck. However it is common knowledge that for the last 90 years it is thought of as the symbol for the genocide of Jews and Nazism. To draw it in Germany, or even worse in Israel would only mean one thing. The slave trade and the racism of (primarily) white against black was most virulent in South America (or at least most notorious). With the history of this and the KKK since 1866 (which ive never heard of anywhere else but in America - please correct me of this) to put up a noose, the KKK's version of the swastika is a clear sign of racism, you dont have to have experienced it to know that. In England they would be charged with a hate crime.
I dont agree that a burning cross would have the same affect - this is against religion, and not isolated to this hate cult.

Punishment should be given to both parties, a slap on the wrists for the people that hung nooses as a 'prank' and a LIFE SENTENCE for those that beat up a guy is screwed up. 6 guys against 1 is a disgrace and they should serve time in a detention centre or if deemed adult, a prison - but less than 2 years is usually the time for this behaviour. Even if its was attempted murder they would usually be out in 5 years in England. Whats fit for one is fit for another.

 

[SparklingWaves]

I want to be clear that I do not condone the actions of any party. I was explaining what I feel is at the surface of the actions of both parties.

Some how, I must not be making my message clear.

We live in a day and age where people get enraged when they are just cut off on the road.

So, think what it means when someone hangs a noose out in an area where your ancestors were once owned, had no rights, treated horribly, and possibly murdered during the course of slavery. That's what I am trying to explain.

But, there is always more behind this.

The noose means more than you realize in the South. There is a cultural difference down here. It's an extreme racial threat to put it extremely mildly. It's not a KKK symbol.

Not long ago there was a young teenage African American boy hung by his belt in front of his home in Mississippi. He was dating a Caucasian girl. The family claims it was murder. I agree. Are you getting my point about the hanging?

 

[mjalomo]

When there are postcards of black families posing around a mangled white corpse that they beat to death and smiling like it is Chrismas, then maybe I can call hanging a noose a "prank". Anyone who thinks they grasp the "meaning" of the prank should visit www.withoutsanctuary.org and see what I mean. Racism is not a "prank", and one can't ignore the historical context of their message. When events like the ones in Jasper, Texas still occur, the threat is very real. Did those boys deserve a beating? Nobody does. Was it attempted murder? If we stretch the beating out that far, I want those "pranksters" charged with making terroistic threats.

 

[SparklingWaves]

Thank you for that website. It puts pictures to what I was struggling to say with words. You know what I am trying to say.

Also, I wanted to mention one other thing. There are people who are still living that knew about the these things. I knew a man that was just over a 102. He was very much with it. He stated he knew about these things and that people would just go missing. He said he was a boy and sat on his brothers shoulders to see what was taking place. The last man he saw hung was white in middle of town. He said there was always a crowd.

So, people may think that was in the stone ages. It wasn't that long ago, when you think his children are in their 60's and 70's.

 

[wolfsong]

A noose represents hanging - either murder or suicide. Both are extremely serious actions. This can never be viewed as a prank, whether it is directed at a certain race, religion and so on.
There is a reason why people shouldnt sweep what happened under the carpet - 'strange fruit' isnt just a pretty song, it was a very real and common occurance. Society has a responsibility to make sure that this never happens again, and to teach why. By letting off people that hang nooses - which may not be a crime in America, but it should be - isnt doing this. I dont think charging people for this is against their freedom of speech as they have acted out on their discrimination. Burn your flag, burn money, spit poison at anyone who will listen - this isnt a threat of violence.

 

[*Stargazer*]

I completely agree with those of you who are stating that hanging the nooses was not a prank. I cringe at the idea of seeing a noose hanging and fully believe that it IS almost always done as a threat. I also believe that much harsher punishment for that incident was warranted. IIRC correctly, the prinicpal of the school tried to enact a harsher punishment that was changed by the school board.

The thing is though, what was done by the 6 boys was heinous. It isn't any less heinous because three (or however many) nooses were hung by people unrelated to the boy that they beat and continued to beat after he was unconcious. I do not for one second believe that Al Sharpton and The Rev would be ok with lesser charges if six white boys beat a black kid when he was unconcious. They'd be screaming for blood. And while I know that AS and JJ are by and large distinctly NOT representative of the black population, you know what they say about the squeaky wheel.

I think an important fact that keeps getting overlooked is the prior VIOLENT history of at least one of the perps, Mychael Bell. Sorry, but its time to put the kid in jail, for a good long time, where he belongs. He is obviously NOT affected by the slaps on the wrist he keeps getting when he commits crimes.