Moral Dilemma

[Beauty Mark]

Homeschooling can, in theory, be wonderful. I haven't seen it executed well with any of the homeschool kids I know. They were bright people, but they were always socially off; a lot of it stems from the parents involving their kids in activities with people who were far older than the kids, so they didn't have much of a chance to hang out with people their own age.

They had a strange time in school, because they weren't used to other people's grading systems or being exposed to different people's POVs. For instance, one girl I'm thinking of would take English at my high school to gain some regular school experience. She had a hard time understanding that she wasn't a special snowflake and that people who didn't agree with her, ie. Republicans, weren't evil beings.

I'm not saying it can't happen in a public/private school system, but I noticed this a lot with homeschooled kids.

However, this has only been my experience.

 

[YvetteJeannine]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalleyGirl Are those the Duggers? I think they're on #16 now.

UGH...I'm sorry...IMO, that's just disgusting to me. IMO, the only reason women have THAT MANY babies is because there is something wrong with them mentally/emotionally. I call it the "perpetual baby syndrome"...I see it all the time (SIL has it)...These women are not satisfied with children. They want babies. All. The. Time. A hallmark of this is when their newest baby starts walking. Mommy starts to talk about having another...Now, I'm not talking about those who have a couple kids (nor am I saying that everyone with more than two kids has perpetual baby syndrome)...Or those who've simply had an 'accident' when their newest babe reaches toddler stages, and they become pregnant again...NO...I'm speaking of those Mommies you see that this is a trend for.

I remember one such instance last year. SIL and her husband came to vist from Philly (he's a WONDERFUL guy, and a career Marine). They have three kids. She stated years ago she always wanted TWO..max. Baby #1 gets to be three...She gets pregnant again. Baby #2 gets to be two...Hubby says they cannot handle any more kids (financially, mentally, physically). She 'oopses' him...Surprise! She's pregnant again. Her husband was NOT happy. Baby #3 is now 18+mnths. She wants another. So, anyway...we went to visit the in-laws...Hubby's Grandmother. Hubby and Sis-in-law's aunts and cousins come over. Cousin has a baby...well...he's not an infant anymore..As of last year he was learning to walk. SIL is playing with him (effectively ignoring her own brood, who are destroying the place and raising havoc)...Doting over him, etc. SIL looks up at her cousin and says "So, Jess, when are you having another one?" (as if we ALL cannot wait to procreate multiple times). Cousin shakes her head..says "I don't think we'll be having another..at least not for a loooong time. We've got all we can handle with this one." SIL smiles knowingly, nodding her head, and says: "Oh, you'll want another...as soon as he starts losing the 'baby' in him, you'll be wanting another!" A bell went off in my head....THAT'S IT I said to myself! She wants a perpetual baby. She is missing something inside of her, and she needs something to constantly cuddle, and 'love'.

When she told us she was pregnant with baby #3, I kept on wondering "She's got two BEAUTIFUL CHILDREN...."
(and these kids truly are beautiful..We take the little girl (now nine) for a couple weeks every year, and she is SUCH a JOY. I wish this kid were MINE! I hate to give her back)...."she's got a boy and a girl...what more could any mother want..WHY does she need another?" But, far be it for me to judge why another woman wants a baby..so I let it go. Now, I realize why. Annnnnd...guess what?? She's already talking about wanting a FOURTH......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, every time we visit her, or she visits us, she's always telling me how much I need a kid. How she sees me with her kids, and I am a 'natural' mother. That I would feel differently AFTER I had the kid (what if I didn't...Then what?). That if I DID have a kid, I'd know what I was missing (what if I HAD the kid, and decided I would have rather kept: continuing my education, going on wonderful twice-yearly vacations to exotic, romantic locales, going away for two-day-getaways to NYC, Rhode Island, Salem, etc., going out for long, romantic dinners, devoting my free time to my animals, using my money for makeup, clothing, household decorations....ECT ECT ECT). Of course, if I DID have a child, I would love it. I would love it more than anything...but what IF there was always that niggling little voice inside my head that said "If you didn't have him/her, you could do (all that stuff listed above)"....What if?... I. Don't. Want. A. Kid. At least not NOW....WHY, oh WHY does SIL INSIST on constantly badgering me about this....Hmmmm...that's one to ponder.

Anyway...this has gotten BEYOND long, and my husband wants me in bed. If anyone actually took the time to read this, thanks....

 

[Kim.]

guguhv

 

[blueyedlady87]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Teachers care a lot more than you give them credit for. Classes are crowded because populations are growing faster than schools are built. Not to mention the huge illegal immigrant population burdening school districts with additional students and ESL programs that sap budgets and resources. Drugs aren't as rampant as you describe. Yes there are groups that engage in this activity, but it's not the majority. Gangs aren't rampant in all schools. Neigther is crime. In a low income innecity neighborhood where crime/gangs are rampant outside of school? Sure. But again, thats not the norm. Yes homeschool your kids... Isolate them from the realworld, so when they get to college they have no idea how to handle it. Thats defeneteley the way to help them suceed in the real world. Real parents, GOOD ones. Get involved in their kids educaton, homeschool or not. And help teach their children. They do their homework with them (not for them), and help them understand things they are not sure on, while helping to create a solid work ethic and teach their children to value knowledge. Public schools offer many resources NOT availible to homeschooling. Good parents combine the two, too give their children superior education. Not depend on one or the other to solve all their problems.

Being as I'm in my last year of high scool and I've attended both private and public schools, public schools in good parts of town and bad part of town, I know what I'm talking about!

I'm sure some teachers care, just not many I've had the 'pleasure' of dealing with. Their heart is not in it. They spend more time bitching about unions and pay raises than teaches, they loose work, take forever gettign grades out, and are not mentally 100% in the classroom. I've had teachers late almost everyday and others who spent classtime on the internet, not teaching.

Drugs aren't rampant??? Almost all highschool kids are potheads or worse. Although some won't cop to it. It's awful and kids are starting at such a young age.

Gangs/crime are everything. Grafitti all over lockers, fights over race/territory/drugs whatever. It goes on at all schools, from the ghetto ones to the 'rich ones'

Homeschooling isn't isolating anymore. There are now groups that meet where kids can socialize and parents can share resources. And it's not like school is the only place kids make friends. How bout the neighborhood and church for example? I wouldn't want my kids anywhere near what is going on in schools today and the direction we're headed.

 

[Dark_Phoenix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer This actually is NOT true anymore. Home schooling is no longer about the isolation, though many times it can be. In fact, homeschooling now has many of the same offerings that mainstream schools do with much less hassle. To say that a home schooled child, particularly one with parents like you're describing (involved, etc.), lacks in education is really inaccurate. In fact, many cities have home school support groups that provide the socialization and extracurricular activities that conventional schools provide, without the standardization, the cliques, the state mandates, and budget shortages.

And then there's the option of boarding schools ^.^

I've never gone to public school, just a private school until I was 11. Then boarding school for middle and another for high.
It's a really great learning environment; you're constantly with people of your own age and you're able to develop without an overbearing parental presence. You learn how to do things too, like laundry, independent study (i.e. can't ask mom for help but our teachers are availible on the phone/e-mail almost anytime), and dealing with people in general.

I hate it when people think boarding school is for parents who can't spend time with their kids, spoiled brats, or snobs. It isn't. You have a really great mix of students from other countries, generally interesting people who don't like their public schools, and, well, okay some spoiled girls but they isolate themselves pretty much. Academics are tough though. And now, for my class, it's cutthroat for college admissions, we're more competitive academically that socially; no one wants to be the girl who didn't get into an Ivy.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Quote:

Drugs aren't rampant??? Almost all highschool kids are potheads or worse. Although some won't cop to it. It's awful and kids are starting at such a young age.

Depends on the school. I hate sounding idealistic, but you should teach your kids not to do drugs, because they're going to some day encounter them. Unless it's serious gang issues (I will agree with you on violence and that kind of stuff), drugs are nearly everywhere and whether you send your kid to public school isn't going to protect them from them.

 

[blueyedlady87]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark Depends on the school. I hate sounding idealistic, but you should teach your kids not to do drugs, because they're going to some day encounter them. Unless it's serious gang issues (I will agree with you on violence and that kind of stuff), drugs are nearly everywhere and whether you send your kid to public school isn't going to protect them from them.

Absolutely. My parents never actually said, Don't do A or B. My mom just taught us right from wrong from day 1. And I can say that i've never once been tempting to 'party' or do drugs. It just doesn't interest me at all. So she must have done something right!

 

[blueyedlady87]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emma_Frost I hate it when people think boarding school is for parents who can't spend time with their kids, spoiled brats, or snobs. It isn't. You have a really great mix of students from other countries, generally interesting people who don't like their public schools, and, well, okay some spoiled girls but they isolate themselves pretty much. Academics are tough though. And now, for my class, it's cutthroat for college admissions, we're more competitive academically that socially; no one wants to be the girl who didn't get into an Ivy.

What made you(r) parents decide to go with boarding school? Did you get to see them often? Sorry for the noisy questions. I've always wondered about boarding school. I sorta have the image of The Little Princess book and movie in mind, lol! Although I don't think I could go without seeing my kids daily.

 

[Beauty Mark]

My friends who attended boarding school said that their parents wanted the best education possible for them, even if it meant boarding school

They went to Exeter or schools similar to that.

 

[Dark_Phoenix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueyedlady87 What made you(r) parents decide to go with boarding school? Did you get to see them often? Sorry for the noisy questions. I've always wondered about boarding school. I sorta have the image of The Little Princess book and movie in mind, lol! Although I don't think I could go without seeing my kids daily.

I go to boarding school because my mother went to one and she thought it was best I guess. I've always had the option of going back home to a school, but I'm way happy here.

I see my parents pretty often. We have breaks at the end of each quarter, three weeks for Christmas, and other misc. long weekends. I have to fly back to Amman from the US so I usally only see them if I have a week or more off.

Lol, it's not like The Little Princess. Teachers are always availible for tutoring or assitance with the class which helps. They're just like all other teachers I guess, some are mean and some are nice.

If you aren't strong in academics you'll die - you have to be able to sit yourself down and study for three or four hours a night of homework or test prep or else you'll fail. Everyone I know takes AP classes, IB classes, or college classes. Right now the college thing is on everyone's mind; they post acceptances in the main office along with class rank. We don't wear uniforms. The school is Christian but non-Christians (Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Atheists, etc..) can opt out of Bible Study for taking Theology instead. We can also opt out of attending Church, or Sermons.

Ick, I've been up all night reading again, Book 3 of War and Peace (Я ненавижу ту книгу).

Note: I'm not disclosing the name of the school I attend for privacy reasons.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kim. Another thing... To say that because somone has 1 child that they will get more attention is making a LOT of assumptions. Not everyone that lives in America has the same belief systems as many American's do, they just live there. It sort of seems like because you (raerae) liked growing up as an only child anyone who has more than 3 kids is someway unable to take care of them. I, being an only child beg to differ.

Personally i think even 3 is stretching it ;p

Quote:

I do know that everyone has freedom of speech but this whole thread just seems really judgemental. Do you have kids? Have you ever had a miscarriage? I'm not saying that you need to personally experience anything to understand it but if you've never known or seen a mother and saw what affect loosing their child had I think you're judging someone on something you don't know much about.

I never said the miscarriage was not sad.

I sad my sympathy of her changed in light of finding out that she had multiple other children already.

I would never wish a miscarriage on anyone. I do however think it's perfectly OK to not have the same level of sympathy towards someone who has several children and then has a mis, compared to someone who miscarries their first child. It's simple biology to know that the older you are (she's in her 30's) and the more children you've previously had, the greater the chance you have of having problamatic pregnancies. Especially since she's had them in the past. Maybe it's time to just be thankful you have 3 other beautiful kids? Instead of trying to make more.

 

[blueyedlady87]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emma_Frost I go to boarding school because my mother went to one and she thought it was best I guess. I've always had the option of going back home to a school, but I'm way happy here. I see my parents pretty often. We have breaks at the end of each quarter, three weeks for Christmas, and other misc. long weekends. I have to fly back to Amman from the US so I usally only see them if I have a week or more off. Lol, it's not like The Little Princess. Teachers are always availible for tutoring or assitance with the class which helps. They're just like all other teachers I guess, some are mean and some are nice. If you aren't strong in academics you'll die - you have to be able to sit yourself down and study for three or four hours a night of homework or test prep or else you'll fail. Everyone I know takes AP classes, IB classes, or college classes. Right now the college thing is on everyone's mind; they post acceptances in the main office along with class rank. We don't wear uniforms. The school is Christian but non-Christians (Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Atheists, etc..) can opt out of Bible Study for taking Theology instead. We can also opt out of attending Church, or Sermons. Ick, I've been up all night reading again, Book 3 of War and Peace (Я ненавижу ту книгу). Note: I'm not disclosing the name of the school I attend for privacy reasons.

Thank you! Wow, that's so interesting! Of course you shouldn't disclose the name

That sounds like a good way to go especially if it's so focused on academics. War and Peace.... fun! I'm going to major in English and I'm dreading the day I finally have to read it. I'm working on Thomas Pynchon's Gravity's Rainbow. Its pretty difficult, very modernist, incomplete sentaces not alot of characterization. But I'm not giving up! Lol. Glad you seem to enjoy boarding school. It's too bad it kinda has the reputation it does (ie- for 'bad' kids or rich people, etc.) Thanks for sharing.

 

[jillianjiggs]

it's your opinion to think she shouldnt have more kids because she already has 3, and it's up to you whether or not you have sympathy for someone when they miscarry.

what if that woman had had her child, and then when it was 6 or 7 years old, it died. should you not feel bad for her because she has 3 other kids to love? she still lost a child either way.

but it's no one's decision but their own to have as many kids as they want. the replies in this thread are incredibly judgemental. if you don't want 8 kids, don't have 8 kids. but don't make assumptions that people who have more than your desired number of children are selfish or screwed up or desperate for love.

the duggars live the way they do because of their religion and general lifestyle. the kids seem "weird" and anti social and sheltered because they are, and that's their way of life. it's not even having to do with the amount of kids. i bet if they had 2 kids, they would still live that way-- homeschooled, religious, dress the way they do, act the way they do...

 

[YvetteJeannine]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillianjiggs it's your opinion to think she shouldnt have more kids because she already has 3, and it's up to you whether or not you have sympathy for someone when they miscarry. what if that woman had had her child, and then when it was 6 or 7 years old, it died. should you not feel bad for her because she has 3 other kids to love? she still lost a child either way. but it's no one's decision but their own to have as many kids as they want. the replies in this thread are incredibly judgemental. if you don't want 8 kids, don't have 8 kids. but don't make assumptions that people who have more than your desired number of children are selfish or screwed up or desperate for love. the duggars live the way they do because of their religion and general lifestyle. the kids seem "weird" and anti social and sheltered because they are, and that's their way of life. it's not even having to do with the amount of kids. i bet if they had 2 kids, they would still live that way-- homeschooled, religious, dress the way they do, act the way they do...

Judgmental or not, that's my opinion. And *I* tend to think Mrs. Dugger is a very sick woman