Mothers crossing the line?

M.A.C. head.

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Stargazer*
That's precisely the relationship I'm trying to cultivate with my daughters. I want them to like me and be comfortable enough to come to me for personal advice that I don't want them getting from their peers, but I also want to respect me as the rule maker. It is a delicate balancing act that I'm going to have to change and adapt as they grow.


This is SO on point.
 

SparklingWaves

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimmer
I could answer, and I did, quite plainly, but you wouldn't understand or grasp it.
As for respect...well. That's another thread entirely.



Gosh - here is another insult.

You attacked me on another thread.

I feel that I don't get to fully express my positions, because of this.
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Stargazer*
That's precisely the relationship I'm trying to cultivate with my daughters. I want them to like me and be comfortable enough to come to me for personal advice that I don't want them getting from their peers, but I also want to respect me as the rule maker. It is a delicate balancing act that I'm going to have to change and adapt as they grow.

OT- Hi, Beauty! Feel like we don't "see" you much anymore
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And, of course as that balance is being maneuvered, the next challenge becomes "When do you let them fall, and when do you catch them before they hit the ground?" So many kids today aren't taught to deal with failure or 'not being good enough' on any level that once adulthood is reached, they're truly clueless about how to handle themselves and utterly lacking in coping skills.
 

M.A.C. head.

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimmer
And, of course as that balance is being maneuvered, the next challenge becomes "When do you let them fall, and when do you catch them before they hit the ground?" So many kids today aren't taught to deal with failure or 'not being good enough' on any level that once adulthood is reached, they're truly clueless about how to handle themselves and utterly lacking in coping skills.

JEEBUS!

I can't help butting in, there are just a lot of great points being made.
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SparklingWaves
Gosh - here is another insult.

You attacked me on another thread.

I feel that I don't get to fully express my positions, because of this.


Specktra.Net - Contact Us

Your positions are appreciated and your positions, while contrary to what others may believe (as is the case for me probably 99% of the time), are part of the mechanism that keeps any discussion going.

That doesn't mean, however, that there won't be people (like myself) who will disagree with you and point it out, with little regard for presentation and whether it makes you feel badly that they don't agree with you.

You haven't been called names, you haven't been slighted, I simply disagree with you. I can rail and rant and point it out ad nauseum as to why I think your point is fallacious, but that would be futile, because you've made the choice from the moment of my disagreement to simply not hear what I'm saying.
That's fine. That's your right.
 

*Stargazer*

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimmer
And, of course as that balance is being maneuvered, the next challenge becomes "When do you let them fall, and when do you catch them before they hit the ground?" So many kids today aren't taught to deal with failure or 'not being good enough' on any level that once adulthood is reached, they're truly clueless about how to handle themselves and utterly lacking in coping skills.

Yup. I'm dealing with it already and I can't imagine how it will be when they are teens.

Already I'm stressed over this
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Registered my older daughter for kindergarten on Monday and I'm flipping out over how she's going to deal (she's very shy sometimes) and people are telling me to hold her back a year. That's not going to happen.
 

*Stargazer*

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beauty Mark
Grad school is busy
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I've, in some sense, started research in astrophysics (big educational change, since all my research experience was in nuclear before).
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Just promise me you won't go all academic on me, k?
winks.gif
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Stargazer*
Yup. I'm dealing with it already and I can't imagine how it will be when they are teens.

Already I'm stressed over this
greengrin.gif
Registered my older daughter for kindergarten on Monday and I'm flipping out over how she's going to deal (she's very shy sometimes) and people are telling me to hold her back a year. That's not going to happen.


I've got a pair of twins on my 5 y/o's t-ball team who, when mommy is around, freak the hell out and won't play ball, cry, scream, and just ultimately flip a complete and total bitch. It SUCKS.

But...when mommy drops them off with us, then leaves (she comes back and sits in her car out of view), they'll play. They bat, they run bases, they play catch. They're just totally different kids.

I'm not at all comparing your daughter to those boys, but said all of that to make the point that when mom's away, kids often figure out how to handle the situation quite well. I'm certain, she's going to be fantastic.
smiles.gif
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by flowerhead
i don't think overbearing parenting is positive, or the parenting mentioned...

No, it's most definitely not, because what happens is that the child develops a need to use the parent as a crutch, and doesn't develop any kind of decision making skills at all.

:/
 

*Stargazer*

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimmer
I'm certain, she's going to be fantastic.
smiles.gif


Oh, she will. We've had her in school for a couple of years now, so I know she's ready. I think I'm more stressed out because the thought of her being gone all day and having fun experiences with others makes me a little sad. I guess I feel a little guilty too, if I'm honest. I don't know why though.

It seems so odd that she's now entering the phase of her life where I won't be the sole organizing focus, you know? And her sister will only be a year behind her
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My babies are growing too fast!!
 

flowerhead

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimmer
No, it's most definitely not, because what happens is that the child develops a need to use the parent as a crutch, and doesn't develop any kind of decision making skills at all.

:/


yup, it's stifling, but in many cases just as detrimental as parents who are too overbearing & strict. like mentioned, a healthy balance.
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Stargazer*
Oh, she will. We've had her in school for a couple of years now, so I know she's ready. I think I'm more stressed out because the thought of her being gone all day and having fun experiences with others makes me a little sad. I guess I feel a little guilty too, if I'm honest. I don't know why though.

It seems so odd that she's now entering the phase of her life where I won't be the sole organizing focus, you know? And her sister will only be a year behind her
ssad.gif
My babies are growing too fast!!


My youngest entered Kindergarten this year and I'll be honest, I still miss him during the day. I LOVE seeing how he's developing and his academic progress but...*sigh*

I know what you're saying, trust. *sniffle*
 

Trunkmonkey

Well-known member
Dependant on the familial structure in an individual home either the male or the female can be dominant. I have known families where the men were firmly in charge and others where the female was the disciplinarian. Different styles are settled on in a complex environment over time and no two families will ever be exactly alike.

Now on point I believe it's healthy to cultivate a relationship with your children built on trust, honesty, love, responsibility, discipline, and example.

Not only are too many parents these days trying to befriend their children but they do not engage their children and set positive examples for them. Telling a child 'you drive carefully' and they see you road raging the whole time they grow up shows them that it's okay to be a road rager no matter what you SAY. This is true in almost every aspect of daily lives in the parent / child relationship.

I want my children to know that I love them and that they can talk to me at any time about any subject and know they can come to me when they screwed up and it will be a whole lot better than me finding out after the fact. However when I have to flip my daddy hat on and administer discipline they know that they have to deal with the consequences of their actions. I try as hard as I can to administer it without emotion but I admit I fail at this more often than not. I do not want my children to be terrified of me but I demand that they respect me and my wife.

Of course, now that I'm a parent, I understand what my mom was saying as she got the paddle or the belt 'this is going to hurt me a lot more than it hurts you' is very very true. At least it is for me.

*crawls back in trunk
 

Beauty Mark

Well-known member
Quote:
Already I'm stressed over this Registered my older daughter for kindergarten on Monday and I'm flipping out over how she's going to deal (she's very shy sometimes) and people are telling me to hold her back a year. That's not going to happen.

I was a shy child, actually, and I started kindergarten at 5. I think the that everyone is a bit shy in new situations, so at least she'll be in the same boat as many others
 

Calhoune

Well-known member
I'm 17 and my mom has always been been my friend. She is alot like the mothers mentioned in the articles that she will talk to me like one of her girlfriends instead of someone she's responsible for.

She talks with me about her guy problems, friend problems, shopping, clothes. She talks to me about my younger sister (one year younger) like she's asking for advice from another mom, which feels a bit strange for me.

When I was young it was great, it was great to have the fun, hip mother and all the girls envied me for having her as my mom.
But as I'm getting older I'm just starting to get angry with her. I want her to be my mom, I don't want her to be my friend. I want her to disipline me, give me advice and care about me. I do realize that at 17 it's too late to wish for the caring mommy, but I miss what I never got.

The worst part is that I'm starting to resent her for it, for not being my mom. That most mom's would discuss issues with their children and set up rules, she instead just screams or give me the silent treatment for a week when I do something she does not agree with. (like talking to my b/f on the phone a bit too long)

It makes me both sad and happy to know that in many ways I'm more mature then my mom will ever be.
 

SparklingWaves

Well-known member
Invalidation

Invalidation is to reject, ignore, mock, tease, judge, or diminish someone's feelings. It is an attempt to control how they feel and for how long they feel it


We are told we shouldn't feel the way we feel
We are dictated not to feel the way we feel
We are told we are too sensitive, too "dramatic"
We are ignored
We are judged

We are led to believe there is something wrong with us for feeling how we feel


You Can't Heal an Emotional Wound with Logic


How the other person responds to your emotional honesty will depend upon, and be indicative of:

(a) how much they respect you
(b) how much they care about you and your feelings
(c) how insecure and defensive they are
(d) how much they are trying to change or control you

"Ordering" You to Feel Differently

Lighten up.
Get over it.
Don't get angry
Deal with it.
Give it a rest.
Forget about it.
Stop complaining.
Don't be so dramatic.
Don't be so sensitive.
Stop taking everything so personally


Denying Your Perception, Defending

Trying to Make You Feel Guilty While Invalidating You

Trying to Isolate You

Minimizing Your Feelings

Judging & Labeling You


Turning Things Around

You are making a big deal out of nothing.
You are blowing this way out of proportion.
You are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Trying to get you to question yourself
What is your problem?
What's wrong with you?
What's the matter with you?
Why can't you just get over it?

Showing Intolerance
This is getting really old.
This is getting really pathetic.
I am sick of hearing about it.

Trying to Control How Long You Feel Something, or Judging You for How Long You Feel It

Are you still upset over that? It happened a long time ago.
You should be over that by now.

Explanations
Maybe it is because...

(This is only part of the abuse of invalidation).


Note: No further comments by me. Peace.
 

NutMeg

Well-known member
Sparklingwaves, having just re-read the thread I think you initially over-reacted to Shimmer's comments. I don't say this with the intent of invalidating you, because I have the feeling that this is a very sensitive topic for you. Unfortunately when someone pushes one of our triggers we often react to something that isn't actually there. Does this mean that your feelings aren't real, or are foolish? No. Are they disproportionate to the situation? I believe so.

I don't think Shimmer was ever intending to attack or pass judgment on your family, and indeed I don't get the impression that she ever did. From what I can see, she took objection to your original statement that mothers/women cannot hold the same kind of power over people/children that fathers/men can. Obviously she has known women who can, as have I, and probably most people on the board. Again, from what I can see in the previous posts she did not try to say that your family wasn't like this.

In my mind this got out of control because the topic is very sensitive to you, and it is simply Shimmer's nature that when she is accused of something she doesn't feel she is guilty of she argues you into the ground, usually very effectively *waves at Shimmer*. She doesn't get mean or vindictive, she just gets very cold and logical and doesn't give up until she feels her point has been made. After things started to escalate I can see why you felt attacked, but in my opinion that's because Shimmer argues/discusses in a very agressive way, not because she was attacking you. Should she have backed off when it became apparent that this was very upsetting for you? Maybe, but that's not in her nature, nor is it the responsibility of every member on this site to be on their guard to protect against the slightest amount of hurt feelings. It is, however, the responsibility of every member to not start arguments/discussions that are too painful/difficult for them to handle or continue.

Again, the last thing I want to do is make you feel attacked or that we're all sitting here thinking you're a fool, because that's not what this is. I know from your previous post that you are feeling invalidated. I'm sorry that you feel that way, but while you should never feel like an emotional reaction is unacceptable (you can't help the way you feel), there are still certain standards of conduct on a board like this that allow us to discuss potentially upsetting topics (although I didn't think initially this would be one of them). So absolutely, if you feel attacked or invalidated, don't repress that emotion. But at the same time, wait until you cool down and re-evaluate before you start accusing people of things. I'm not asking you to stop posting your opinion, because it is valued here. I'm not asking that you censor yourself, and I don't want you to feel like you aren't allowed to say what you think. Just remember what the purpose of a board like this is, and ask yourself what you are accomplishing when you feel invalidated or stomped on. Try to remember that none of us are vindictive or cruel, or out to hurt others, and that sometimes painful comments must be allowed in order to facilitate a discussion about painful topics. Again, do not feel like I'm somehow against you in this. I've got only the best wishes for you in this.

I'm sending you lots of support.
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Janice

Well-known member
You are the queen of neutral unbiased summaries Nutmeg! I want you to know how cool that quality is.
 

lizardprincesa

Well-known member
Re: Mothers crossing the line?
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Originally Posted by SparklingWaves (??)
Quote:
Mothers can not do that

Please excuse me, as I may have missed something...or maybe this quote is from the deleted post? I don't get to read much on here lately.
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Shimmer wrote: Quote:
I have to wholeheartedly 100% without any reservations at all disagree with you on this point.
 
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