Pondering Racial Connotations of "Lightful"

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Hawkeye

Well-known member
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I guess we take on whatever tone that hits our thin spots, eh? I have enough issues. I try to respect those of others, and keep my outrage to a minimum. If everyone just acted like a human being and with a little common sense, little twists of language wouldn't trip us up.

i think i love you.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimmer
but our disagreements are SO MUCH more lively!!! If we got along imagine how much the traffic on the site would die down from people not being able to view us going at each other's throats
winks.gif


RAWR!

*goes for the juggular*
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raerae
RAWR!

*goes for the juggular*


I'm sure you mean "jugular" right? unless you're heading for my boobies!!
icon_eek.gif
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juneplum
*raises hand* oh boy.. here's where u and i disagree james
smiles.gif
1st off, I was the one who created the beauty of color forum because i thought it would be great to have a sub forum where women "of color" could discuss cosmetics that work for us. i don't see what's wrong with that
hmm.gif
it was not created with the intent of being segregated at all - it was an addition and enhancement of the board imho.


Well to be fair, every skin type could use that same argument. Yet you get a subforum - BoC, and then a "please attach a PB" to your post if your pale.

To re-word your post -

I think it would be great to have a sub forum where women "without color" could discuss cosmetics that work for us. I dont see what's wrong with that :hmmm: It would not be created with the intent of being segregated at all - it will be an addition and enhancement to the board imho.



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i know for me and or other members "of color" it is a great resource because we no longer have to sort through several threads where nothing pertains to our coloring just to find one or two threads that do. the BoC forum is open to EVERYONE and nowhere is it written that only WoC can post there and no one else. now THAT would be segregation..

I know for me and or other members "without color" is would be a great resource because we no longer have to sort through several threads where nothing pertains to our coloring just to find one of two threads that do. The PB forum would be open to EVERYONE and nowhere will it be written that only PB women can post and no one else. Now THAT would be segregation

See what I mean? Using your reasoning for making that forum, we should have a sub-forum for every shade. I could replace PB with, "Olive Beauty" or "Caramel Beauty" or any of the millions of shades of colors people's skin colors come in. Yet when another shade asked for a sub-forum that pertains to them, because the majority of the posts in the main forum dont work for them, they were asked to simply mark "PB" on their post. Using that reasoning, why was a subforum created at all? Couldn't WoC simply mark, "WoC" next to their post in the main forum? And then WoC could use the search tool for, "WoC" to find posts that pertain to them?

I'm not sure how it got to this, but somewhere along the way in America, it became, "taboo" and not "PC" to have clubs or organizations that are about "caucasian people." I'll give you can example:

From my College: http://kiosk.ucsb.edu/GettingInvolve...nizations.aspx

Ethnic

Afghan Student Union
Armenian Student Organization
Asian Resource Center
Black Graduation Committee
Black Pioneer Renaissance
Black Student Union
Cambodian Student Union
Chinese Students and Scholars Assn
India Association
Kapatirang Pilipino
Korean Cultural Awareness Group
Korean Student Association (KSA)
Merhaba
Multicultural Drama Club
Muslim Student Association
Persian-American Student Heritage Foundation

Where is the "Caucasian Student Union?" You think as a caucasian attenting that school I would feel comfortable attending the, "Black Student Union?" No where in the Written charter does it say, "Only Blacks," as that would be discrimination and thats not allowed. But it's implied, "BLACKS ONLY." What would happen if a "White Student Union" was proposed? Chances are the people asking for it to be created would be called racists.

Next Listing -

Cultural

Africa Awareness Student Organization
Akanke
Asian American Culture Week Committee
Asian Pacific Graduate Student Assn
Asian-Pacific Student Union
Bhangra Team at UCSB
Black Reign <---- Can We have a, "White Reign" club? Could you imagine...?
Chinese American Association
Educational Opportunity Program
Hermanas Unidas of UCSB
Hermanos Unidos of UCSB
Hip Hop Club at UCSB
Hui O Lokahi
Iaorana te Otea
In the House
Indus
Irish Club at UCSB <--- 1 club out of how many?
Israeli Club
Japanese Student Association
Korean-American Campus Missions
Lusophone and Hispanic Literature Conference
Multicultural Action Coalition
Native American Indian Language Study Group
Nikkei Student Society
Pacific Islander Student Association
Pillipino Cultural Night
PSU/KP Alumni Association
Queer People of Color <---- Queer "subforum" ?
Raagmala
Raices de Mi Tierra
Site Pacific
Skyline Dancers
South Asian Cultural Heritage
Taiko @ UCSB
Vietnamese Student Association

NEXT!

Political

ACLU
American Students for Israel
A.S. Student Lobby
Asian Sisters and Brothers for Ideas in Action Now <--- Can i get a White Sisters and Brothers?
Association of Student Satirists
Campus Democrats at UCSB
Campus Libertarians
Coalition for Peaceful Justice
College Republicans
El Congreso
Gauchos for Clark
Honor y Orgullo Latino Americano
MECHA de UCSB
Model United Nations
Mark Twain Anti-Imperialist Forum
NAACP <-- How about the NAAWP?
National Organization for Women
NORMAL
People's Coalition
Protesta y Apoyo para los Zapatistas
Students for Academic Freedom at UCSB
VOX-Voices for Planned Parenthood

See my point? How long is being publicly proud to be "white" going to be taboo?
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimmer
I'm sure you mean "jugular" right? unless you're heading for my boobies!!
icon_eek.gif


Are they real and SPECTACULAR!?!

Does the Elaine, and trips into them
rofl.gif
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raerae
Are they real and SPECTACULAR!?!

Does the Elaine, and trips into them
rofl.gif


of course they're spectacular, who do you think you're talking to???
winks.gif
 

Janice

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raerae
Yet when another shade asked for a sub-forum that pertains to them, because the majority of the posts in the main forum dont work for them, they were asked to simply mark "PB" on their post.

I don't believe anyone has ever been asked to amend a prefix to topic titles. This was introduced by a very clever member who has lent alot of vocal support for a PB subforum. She put it out there for like minded beauties in a thread of hers, and asked other to support a PB subforum by putting that signal in their topic titles.
smiles.gif


Your post illustrates some concerns I grapple with as well, I'm intent on finding a solution that ties all of this together and benefits the community.
type.gif
 

MAC_Whore

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimmer
I'm sure you mean "jugular" right? unless you're heading for my boobies!!
icon_eek.gif


I believe the technical term is juggs-ular.
 

Bernadette

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I stumbled upon this topic way late but I just had to say... it's called Lightful not Whiteful.
MAC carries bronzers all of the time and usually comes out with an extensive bronzing line every summer. The amount of bronzing and tanning products on the market far out-number the amount of lightening products. Not to mention, the insane amount of tanning salons all over our country.
When I saw the name of this skincare line I knew it was something to help reduce signs of sun-damage, redness and those type of "discolorations" not something to alter the amount of melanin in your skin that determines how light or dark it is. Maybe that is due to my knowledge of the beauty industry and skincare in general; Honestly though, I think it's common sense.
 

TangoMango

Well-known member
As a WoC, I believe that the Lightful collection was made to help improve the skin's complexion and give users a 'glow,' so to speak. As an NC-4something (I honestly don't know anymore), I'm interested in this line. Maybe the products will help with the dark circles around my eyes? Or redness I get occasionally?

Also, I think it would be great to have a Pale Beauties subforum. I'm not pale or anything, but I know people who are pale and it would be great for them to get tips too.
 

Hawkeye

Well-known member
Quote:
Honestly though, I think it's common sense.

Bernadette-
Sometimes I think you'd be hard pressed to find common sense now a days- anywhere. Sometimes I think a snowball has a better chance in hell than people actually using common sense.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye
Bernadette-
Sometimes I think you'd be hard pressed to find common sense now a days- anywhere. Sometimes I think a snowball has a better chance in hell than people actually using common sense.


I saw one of those once... A snowball, in hell... But then it melted =(
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye
You saw it too? LOL

Yeh I think it was April at Park City, it was like 65 degrees out and all the snow at the base of the mountain was melting =p

Stupid hell... Making the skiing season too short =(
 

Beachgrl07

Well-known member
I think it has more to do with the way our skin ages and I've heard a big symptom of aging skin is discoloration, which I am sure is something a lot of people would like to even out.
 

bAbY_cHiCkEn01

Well-known member
I think its just saying *bring light to your face*, as in a nice glow ya know... Thats something everyone can have. This isn't a racial thing at all. Darker skinned ladies would also love bright, healthy looking skin right. And the picture, well maybe that *is* a little racist, althought I'm sure not intentionally, as most of the MAC models are white... but I suppose in this instance, it would be better to have a really pale model, cos it would look a little better as its a *lightful* collection, if that makes sense...
 

CaraAmericana

Well-known member
I would like to respond the initial post from ME220.

I read the first four pages and didn’t care to read on. So if my comment seems out of place then so be it.

ME220, I feel on a broad spectrum that there is a gap, an exclusion of Black models and representation. I also feel there is a exclusion for Latina Models and Asian Models. I feel like there is a preconceive image for what these advertising agencies want to portray. Because if you think about it when these ad agencies go in to come up with a new product or line they have to create the image that they want representing the selling product. And I feel that that more than likely not, they will choose a caucasion female. Now, I know in the minds of some readers they are bringing to mind all the non caucasion female models. But let me now reveal this. Why is it that the only time you will see a mass marketed Black female model is when a company is about to release a few products catered to African American women in a still lighter complected dominanted beauty line? Just like I don’t understand why you will only see commercials with all black actors during a time frame when only black dominanted tv shows are aired. Or throwing one black or latin or asian in a all white cast just to be fair. It’s like saying here is your little time and space so now be quiet and don’t complain. Like that is some how fair and the sides are now even. NOT even close IMO!


Another analogy that strongly comes to mind is the lack of plus size fashionable clothes. I have exactly 3 stores I can go into to find pants in my size that do not require an elastic band (yuck). The rest are ALL for the ‘normal’ size chicas. But because I have 3 stores I should keep my mouth shut? Of course not! You could say that is my fault for not watching what I eat and I could lose weight to fit those clothes. But what if I don’t want to. What if I am proud of being my size and believe or not. I AM SEXY! I feel it and I attract men like flies. But back on topic lol, am I suppose to just settle for less because I don’t fit in the box?? No and neither should ME220.

I don’t believe that ME220 is threatening to discuss how we should shutdown and destroy all those lighter shades of makeup, we just need to uses our voice (like Elle in LB2) to state that more is being demanded and needed. We need more representation and choices.

And I think they we all being women we would stand by each other and shout too. No matter what size or color the person next to us is. And instead of asking “why does everything have to be racial” we should be saying “why is everything not racial?”
Thank you =)
 

EmbalmerBabe

Well-known member
Your looking way too deep into it. There are absolutely no racial connotations. MAC uses models of every race, this one so happens to appear caucasion but who knows if she is really 100% pure caucasion???
Any ways who cares!
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaraAmericana
Just like I don’t understand why you will only see commercials with all black actors during a time frame when only black dominanted tv shows are aired.

Thats easy to answer, I work in cable advertising, so perhaps I can shed a little light on why that happens.

Black, White, Hispanic, Asian, Whatever... It's basically considered a, "demographic." When an client comes to us looking to advertise their product, they tell us what their target demographic is for that product. Lets say the product is a car, and they are targeting "Adults 25-54." Now cars appeal to all people, regardless of race right? But, as an advertiser, you want to be able to identify with your target audience in order to have your advertising be as effective as possible. Cable, is broken out into zones. This allows advertisers to target the different demographics more specifically, because groups of similar people typically tend to live together.

So in City A, there are 3 neighborhoods. Neighborhood 1, is mostly white, neighborhood 2 is mostly black, and neighborhood 3 is mixed equally 50/50. The car dealership in this city comes to us and says they want to advertise their dealership locally. We would then, knowing that the city is divided like it is, build a schedule for that advertiser based on reaching the audience that is most likeley to buy their car.

So in Neighborhood 1, we would air commercials on channels that the white audience in that neighborhood watches. Which in most cases, is probably not the channel, and time frame which is black dominated, since in that zone, those channels and times probably rate rather low. But at the same time, we would also be airing commercials in DIFFERENT channels in neighborhood 2, which appeal to the black majority. And in nieghborhood 3, they would probably air on networks that appeal to both demographics equally.

In addition, that company might come to us with multiple commercials already produced. One commercial might feature an all white cast, to be used for the mostly white neighborhood, and a second features an all black cast to appeal to the mostly black neighborhood, and a third commecial which has a racially mixed cast to air in the racially diverse neighborhood. This way, the client knows that when the commercial with the All Black Family buying a new car airs, it's going to air in the black neighborhood, on channels, "Black Adults Ages 25-54" typically watch.

Thats a super simple example, but everything you see on TV, is put there for a reason. Two members could be watching the same exact show on TV, but not see the same commercials. This is for cable advertising.

Network television is different, but the same general principles apply.
 

MAC_Pixie04

Well-known member
As far as the whole dark/light issue, you can't win. If you're very dark-skinned you're caste out and lightening/brightening products are thrust at you. But there's a stigma against very fair skinned people as well: "Damn, she needs to get a tan." We obviously can't have it one way or the other, there doesn't seem to be a happy medium either.

As far as the lightful collection, it's intention is to lighten hyperpigmentation, dark spots and unwanted marks off the skin, make everything more even toned. I personally don't think it would work very well, as it's a studio makeup line trying to market skincare, but that's not the point. Yes, the woman in the advertisement is white, but as are many of the models in the postcards. If she'd been black, then it really would have raised a stink, like "What is MAC trying to say? They want us to be lighter?" So again, there's no winner.
What's offensive, I'd say, was that tired ass Ambi "skincare" line. That was the worst thing to happen to women of color; a drugstore caliber skin bleach. Women rubbing it on their skin, not really following the directions well, and ruining what was probably beautiful skin to begin with, so that they could be "light skinned," which was the most "beautiful" thing to be back when it was popular. It even spread to colonies of Africa, where women are very dark, and upon seeing "African American" women of the US, as portrayed in the media broadcasts there, they caught onto the "lighter is better" crock of poop. Which is exactly what I think it is.
 
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