Prolife Or Prochoice

[Karen_B]

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Originally Posted by SkylarV217 Having an abortion is eliminating the consequence. Not dealing with it. An abortion is normally considered the easy way out b/c it is an escape hatch . A lot of women have abortions for fear of what family or parents even spouses will think. It's a short term option ( even though it has long term affects) . I'm not saying an abortion is easy or pain free but it's nothing like raising a child and sacrificing for that child daily, Everyday for the rest of your life.

I don't agree. If you become pregnant, you are standing in front of a certain number of choices: abortion, having the baby, and giving it up for adoption. Each of these I consider dealing with the consequences of an unwanted pregnancy. If you have a termination, you have to live with that decision as well, everyday for the rest of your life. I have never had an abortion myself, but a few of my friends have, and none of them considered it an easy way out or an escape hatch.

A lot of the time I find this type of argumentation to sound like girls and women should be punished for their irresponsibility. I'm not saying that is what you are saying, but it is a vibe I often get. I don't think children should be used as a means to teach women a lesson.

 

[Beauty Mark]

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Originally Posted by HeavenLeiBlu I think she may have meant mental disabilities on the part of the woman impregnated. I can remember a case a few years ago, where a developmentally delayed woman kept getting pregnant, but she was absolutely not capable of caring for the children herself. She lived on her own, and was able to do okay on a day to day basis, but in a limited manner. I think luckily, members of her family took in the children, but they were unable by law, to get her sterilized, because she wouldn't consent to it herself, and she wasn't considered to be disabled enough so that a responsible relative could take over as her medical power of attourney. (For me, the real issue is that her family should have put effort into either getting her on a form of BC that was suitable for her, or more importantly, keeping those terrible men from taking advantage of her) But, my apologies if this is not what the OP meant.

I think it depends on the mentally disabled. I don't know how comfortable I am making a blanket statement that the mentally disabled should automatically be forced to have abortions or be sterilized; I could see that somehow being abused (I'm pro-choice in all senses; you should be allowed to carry to term or have an abortion). ITA that preventive situations should happen before.

 

[ZoeKat]

I am 100% pro-choice...and 100% pro-sex education while I'm at it. I have made the decision that I do not ever want to have children. I take precautions to ensure that a pregnancy won't happen. If, someday, my two forms of birth control fail, I would likely abort. Part of my reasoning for not wanting children does include the fact that I don't want to give up my freedom to do certain things, but I don't think I ever realized that someone might consider that selfish. I don't. I also don't believe that I should abstain from having sex because I'm unwilling to raise a child. I certainly don't see abortion as the easy way out (though I'm sure there are people who do see it that way) because I'm sure that even though I dislike babies, going through an abortion would be difficult and I would probably think of it quite frequently throughout my life.

 

[melliquor]

I would never have an abortion in any circumstance even rape. Even if it meant me dying, I would still have the baby and except my death. I believe abortion is murder but that is only my opinion. My belief comes alot from my religion and my belief in God. Please don't take offense.

I don't think abortion should be illegal but only for rape and incest. It should never be used as a form of birth control.

For the UK, it is very difficult to adopt children. I have been trying for over 3 years and still waiting. I don't want a baby and not at all picky. I am talking about my experience. You can only adopt children overseas if you are rich and offer enough money. I have looked into it. I wish it was easy but it isn't.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Plenty of decisions are made selfishly. Lots of people have kids for selfish reasons. Lots of people don't have kids for selfish reasons.

I don't think being selfish should be an issue when it comes to having kids or not or having an abortion or not

Quote:

For the UK, it is very difficult to adopt children. I have been trying for over 3 years and still waiting. I don't want a baby and not at all picky. I am talking about my experience. You can only adopt children overseas if you are rich and offer enough money. I have looked into it. I wish it was easy but it isn't.

That's not a problem with an unwanted child shortage; that's a problem with adoption laws and regulations and money.

 

[zabbazooey]

Having a baby is not considered a way to teach a woman a lesson.

You should know what you're getting yourself into when you have sex, even if you're religiously using birth control.

Man + Woman + Sex = Baby

Abortion is not the solution.

 

[HeavenLeiBlu]

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Originally Posted by Beauty Mark I think it depends on the mentally disabled. I don't know how comfortable I am making a blanket statement that the mentally disabled should automatically be forced to have abortions or be sterilized; I could see that somehow being abused (I'm pro-choice in all senses; you should be allowed to carry to term or have an abortion). ITA that preventive situations should happen before.

Oh, of course, of course! Making a blanketed mandate like that creates a slippery slope. That's an option to be considered on case by case basis, for sure.

 

[HeavenLeiBlu]

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Originally Posted by zabbazooey Having a baby is not considered a way to teach a woman a lesson. You should know what you're getting yourself into when you have sex, even if you're religiously using birth control. Man + Woman + Sex = Baby Abortion is not the solution.

I would hope that nobody is arguing that it is THE solution, but it certainly is a suitable one, for many people.

 

[purrtykitty]

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Originally Posted by Dahlia_Rayn Abortion is not something I would consider for myself...to me life begins far earlier then a lot of people think. However, I believe abortions should be legal, many women lost their lives when abortion was illegal to back alley "doctors" and I'd hate for us to return to that primitive place. I do find the practice of using abortion as birth control reprehensible, I don't feel abortion clinics should have revolving doors. Despite that, I feel abortion is medically/personally relevant for some, and by limiting it we are harming many. Despite how I feel about abortion personally, it is not my responsibility or my right to determine what is appropriate for your body, and my beliefs should not outweigh what someone else believes.

Extremely well put and you cover my view-point exactly.

 

[purrtykitty]

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Originally Posted by HeavenLeiBlu So what about women who absolotely do NOT WANT children and even though they've taken all reasonable measures to prevent a pregancy? Or what about someone like me (although I already have a child) whose health (as well as the fetus) would be in terminal danger, by going through with a pregnancy? To be clear, I'm absolutely against abortion as a birth control method, but I see no reason why a woman should not be able to get one. For the majority of women who have been in the position of deciding what to do about an unexexpected/unwanted pregancy, the decision to abort is not one taken lightly. Sure, there's always the clearly more desireable option of adoption. but that's not always an option for everyone. I'm sure everyone who's brave enough to speak their piece on this topic has pretty much agreed to disagree with the opposing opionons expressed here and IRL, but I just want people to not see the issue in such a cut and dry manner, and have some understanding, that's all.

But in your case, where a pregnancy would endanger either you or the fetus, there should be an exception as well. For the women who absolutely do not want children (this is where a discussion from another thread would come in) she should have the option of sterilization. Apparently in our society, we can abort as many babies as we want under the guise of it being "our body, our choice", but a woman can't choose to be sterilized because she doesn't want children?! Makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

[MAC_Whore]

Pro Choice gives everyone the freedom to make the best choice about their body.

Pro Life gives one side of the coin their way. The other half has no choice.

 

[zabbazooey]

I just don't see why people seem to think they have the authority to make the decision as to whether their unborn child (it's a CHILD, yes, a fetus, but a human being nonetheless) lives or dies.

 

[Simply Elegant]

I think because they created it and the baby has no voice yet, so the parents speak for it by deciding what to do.

 

[zabbazooey]

Yes, their physical union that resulted in a fertilized egg "created it" but the baby is not a nuisance simply to be discarded when it becomes inconvenient.

It's like the whole Terri Schiavo thing. No one had a right to step in and end her life.

But that's TOTALLY different, because she wasn't a fetus, right?

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by zabbazooey It's like the whole Terri Schiavo thing. No one had a right to step in and end her life.

The hell they didn't. I've made my wishes known to my husband should I be in a similar situation. He's entrusted to carry them out. It's not on my family to stand in his way.

That woman's brain was congealed jelly. She wasn't alive, she was using electricity and resources.

I know how callous that sounds but her wishes were ignored by selfish people in her life for far too long.

 

[purrtykitty]

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Originally Posted by zabbazooey Yes, their physical union that resulted in a fertilized egg "created it" but the baby is not a nuisance simply to be discarded when it becomes inconvenient. It's like the whole Terri Schiavo thing. No one had a right to step in and end her life. But that's TOTALLY different, because she wasn't a fetus, right?

Yes, but her case could've totally been avoided had she taken the proper procedures and done a living will and then made sure that she had a durable POA (one that would survive her incapacitation) designating her husband. No one plans on being a vegatable, but everyone should do a POA and living will, just in case. In the absence of all that, her husband gets to make her medical decisions for her...it was just poor planning on both their parts.

 

[daizymela]

I'm a medical student and I plan on providing complete reproductive health care (including abortions) for my patients when I finish my training. For some reason, people seem to think that abortion providers enjoy providing abortions. That isn't the case at all. We'd all be thrilled if we never had to do one again. The abortion rate in the US would be reduced if we taught comprehensive sex education and made birth control accessible and affordable.

 

[HeavenLeiBlu]

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Originally Posted by purrtykitty But in your case, where a pregnancy would endanger either you or the fetus, there should be an exception as well. For the women who absolutely do not want children (this is where a discussion from another thread would come in) she should have the option of sterilization. Apparently in our society, we can abort as many babies as we want under the guise of it being "our body, our choice", but a woman can't choose to be sterilized because she doesn't want children?! Makes absolutely no sense to me.

Ah, I see ( I'm not aware of the other thread this debate is taking place in). My thing is, placing a bunch of conditions on who can and can't obtain a safe, legal termination creates a bad situation all around. As was stated above by another poster, those who are desparate to get one, WILL get it, by any means neccesary. On one hand, I feel like certain standards should be in place to prevent some people from being "frequent flyers", so to speak. But on the other, that paves the way for other, ridiculous conditions to be mandated as well. It really just isn't any one else's business why an adult woman feels the need to make that choice, other than her doctor and perhaps the man who got her pregnant.

It should also be noted that for women who don't want children at all, many states have placed ridiculous conditions under which a woman may be sterilized. Some are dependent on age, others on marital status and consent from spouse, others are dependent on whether or not the woman has already given birth, and sometimes a combination of one or all. So, that's not always a choice a woman may have. Not to mention that even sterilization isn't foolproof. I recently had to deal with a woman who wants to sue her ob/gyn because she's pregnant, a few years after her tubal ligation. However, she hasn't a leg to stand on, because on the procedure consent, it clearly states that pregnancy is STILL a risk. There are many, many women who have tubal pregnancies after being sterilized, and end up having to get D&C's, and a few of them are relatives of mine.

No, I don't support anyone getting abortions all willy nilly or "just because I can", but I want every woman to always have the RIGHT to have one done.

 

[Dahlia_Rayn]

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Originally Posted by Brittni The baby might suffer some emotional damage, yes, and of course that is horrible...but isn't there counseling, therapy, etc? I would rather be alive and have some issues to work out rather than dead. But again, I think it goes back to people not being raised correctly with the right morals, knowledge, and realism; what I mean by this is that if people were raised correctly then they wouldn't be selfish and stupid enough to have unprotected sex and use abortions as a birth control mechanism.

Who's to say that your morals, knowledge and reality (or mine for that matter) should be accepted by millions of women? I don't think abortion is selfish or stupid in a lot of cases. Abortions are legal because more people agree that they should be! Respecting other people also means accepting other people have different viewpoints then you do, and that doesn't make them wrong or selfish, and it doesn't mean they weren't raised properly.

 

[Abbytabby]

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Originally Posted by Dahlia_Rayn Who's to say that your morals, knowledge and reality (or mine for that matter) should be accepted by millions of women? I don't think abortion is selfish or stupid in a lot of cases. Abortions are legal because more people agree that they should be! Respecting other people also means accepting other people have different viewpoints then you do, and that doesn't make them wrong or selfish, and it doesn't mean they weren't raised properly.

I couldn't agree more. I'm pro choice but my theory is that since I don't try to push my beliefs onto others I'd like that same respect. I can understand saying something is not for you but I would never say someone was selfish, lacked my high morals, was brought up wrong or were just plain bad people (and honestly I'm not taking shots at anyone) because they have a different set of beliefs than I do. I don't like to assume how other people would feel in certain situations.

I read an article somewhere once where they talked to workers in clinics that perform abortions and how they'd have women who had protested come in for an abortion, explain that their situation was special and they deserved to have an abortion but other women didn't. These women would then go back to protesting and honestly that made me so sick.

Anyway, in the end I just don't really see the point in arguing (again, this isn't directed at anyone, it's just I've seen this topic quite a bit elsewhere) since I know I'm not going to change a pro lifers mind and they're not going to change mine much like the capital punnishment argument, people are going to believe what they feel is right so I just agree to disagree respectfully