"Skinny Model Ban" in Madrid

[Beauty Mark]

Most runway models look skeletal (the Victoria's Secret models come to mind for some of the healthier looking ones.) I don't know if it's true, but someone once told me that the reason designers want such skinny women is because they're essentially walking hangers. Healthier models are used for ads generally.

 

[Kisbee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae The problem is, that a totally healthy girl who's personal body shape and distribution puts her under the magic number 18 is denied a job for no real reason. She is totally healthy, and has no eating disorder or any kind. She was just blessed with a small frame and a high metabolism giving her the current ideal body shape for today's beauty standard. However, as beautiful as she is, she is forced to eigther pack on the pounds, or find work in another field.

Perfectly qualified people don't get jobs in their chosen careers (no matter what that might be) all the time. Life is a lottery and sometimes you lose. You just have to deal with it.

I don't see why modelling should be any different.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kisbee Perfectly qualified people don't get jobs in their chosen careers (no matter what that might be) all the time. Life is a lottery and sometimes you lose. You just have to deal with it. I don't see why modelling should be any different.

Thats because they lost out at an interview to a MORE qualified person.

Your comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer I've googled and alltheweb searched and not found runway models who aren't too thin.

Yes, i'm sure you have had the time to look at photo's of every single runway model world wide. Not to mention, thin-ness alone isn't the only qualification of health since everyone's body is different. So you could be looking at models who may be, "too thin for shimmer" but are perfectly healthy. Yes, not all the models are healthy, we can both agree on that. But I think it's safe to say, not all of them are un-healthy eigther.

I would be fine with random drug testing. I had to take a drug test to get my job, and the randomly test workers. Thats not unreasonable. I would also be fine with having them see a physician and present a document of health. If your so worried about these young women.

You all realise most girls with ED'd dont look to runway's for beauty standards. Since in many cases models look wierd anyways. So even imposing this 18 BMI restriction isn't going to do a thing for your average girl with an ED.

So whats next? 18 BMI standards on celebs too? Having the club check your BMI on your drivers liscense? Maybe we should pass legislation making it illegal to be below an 18 bmi.

 

[Shimmer]

It's a standard.
It's not personal.
It's a universally applied standard.

The problem with a statement of health is that the patient can (and in these situations probably would) pay off the doctor.

You can definitively apply bmi.

Standards suck, but they're a reality of life.

Example?
According to the US Army, a female soldier aged 27-31 should be able to do 17 pushups in 2 minutes, 45 situps in 2 minutes, and run 2 miles in 20:30.
Do you know how many females struggle with this? Through nothing more than body composition? Sucks to be them. Why? Because it's a universally applied standard within the military...and, if they can't meet the minimum standard, they're chaptered out.
It sucks.
And, that woman may be one of the most healthy women in the military, but she doesn't meet the standards.
Life sucks.

If a model doesn't meet the standards put before them, just like with any other job, they don't get the job. It's not discrimination, it's simply that they don't meet the standards.

 

[MarniMac]

In response to the original topic (skinny model ban): I think its fine...it kinda reminds me of the steroid use controversy (whether or not to legalize steroids) in the pro cycling community...if they allow steroids, then EVERYONE will feel like they need to use them, just to be able to compete. Even if a few models have a naturally super low BMI, under 18, other models will do whatever is necessary, drugs or purge, just to compete, so I think its good that the modelling world doesn't want to support that. Just my thoughts though.

RaeRae: I didn't read all of your posts, but in agreement with what you said, I have known people with a BMI lower than 18 (my husband and my best friend) and they are both completely normal...no drugs, no purging. My man did used to play competitive soccer, which I think made him pretty skinny, so I can totally understand how running marathons would keep your BMI so low. I know its hard when your BMI is so low, because people are constantly attacking you and questioning why (like my best friend). She would try to gain weight and couldn't...she always felt like she wasn't "normal".
I don't think its anbody else's business to "connect the dots" when they don't know what the truth is. People see a very skinny girl and ASSUME (makes an ass out of u and me, hehe) that she has some sort of eating issue. I really think that is wrong. Unless you have undeniable proof (ala Kate Moss) in front of you, don't assume or accuse, its just not fair and I think its what separates the ignorant from the well, not ignorant.

Shimmer, I totally agree with everything you said about being healthy and standards, etc. Like I said before, even if some models are naturally supa dupa skinny, most aren't and will do anything necessary to achieve the look, which is really harmful and sad, so yeah, I think the ban is good. Maybe it will take some pressure off of the models, which I imagine could be pretty overwhelming.

 

[Shimmer]

^^^ best post in thread.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer It's a standard. It's not personal. It's a universally applied standard. The problem with a statement of health is that the patient can (and in these situations probably would) pay off the doctor.

So whats stopping them from paying off the guy they step on the scale in front of?

Or worse, going on a crash diet after weighing in at 18 BMI, and starving for the rest of the production?

Or drinking a galon of water before they step on the scales (a gallon weighs 8.34 LBS), and puking/peeing it out later in the day?

This BAN isn't solving anything. All your doing is forcing the girls who already have messed up diet habits, to pull some crazy things to get around it. It's a waste of time.

Your not going to change a beauty standard by saying people under 18 BMI can't participate. There are many EASY ways to get around it. You change a beauty standard by NOT PICKING models that look like they are starved. Why is this so hard to comprehend?

 

[Shimmer]

are you seriously using this as your foundation of debate?

 

[Shimmer]

they ARE "not picking" models that look like they are starved.
Are you not seeing that?
Are you seriously not seeing that?
Now, when models are denied jobs they're given a reason WHY. Good Lord.

I haven't seen a healthy model. Give me a name or SOMETHING.
You say Ididn't have time to go through all the models? I went through over twenty pages of models, not that that matters.
Emaciated, skinny, starving and hungry were the key descriptive terms I could apply to every single one of them.

It's not a "ban". "Ban" is a misnomer, it's a standard RaeRae. Just like if there's a show that must feature only brunettes and a blond applies...she doesn't meet the standard, so she's denied.

Good grief.

You're taking this issue personally, as such, you're not going to listen to any statement that shows why the standards are a good start.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer they ARE "not picking" models that look like they are starved. Are you not seeing that? Are you seriously not seeing that?

They banned all of 5 models from the show. Not to mention the fact that the ones that were in the show were still going to be much thinner than any, "average woman." If your at an 18 BMI, your still going to be showing bones, and you would still probably classify as them as being starved and emancipated. So what was accomplished? Nothing. Other than make some the girls seek work elsewhere.

You can't force a change in an ideal. Banning models isn't suddenly going to make every woman in the world go, "Oh well i guess big and flabby is beautiful now!" Since the average person in the USA is obese or overweight, i hardly see this ban having any effect on the overall health of the nation.

Not to mention the white beauty standard isn't the only beauty standard out there. There are plenty of other beautiful women who show off plenty of other beauty ideals.

 

[little teaser]

i give you both credit you two would make great lawyers whens the closeing arguements..lol

 

[MarniMac]

I don't want to step in the middle of the fight, but lets stop being petty. Raerae, you are right in that it seems silly and pointless to ban models based on a number, but like Shimmer said, it has to start SOMEWHERE. I mean its better to have SOMETHING than to just let it go on, like it has. I think the model "ban" started because the modelling community has taken A LOT of flack for promoting too skinny models as the ideal standard of beauty...which has caused some young girls to develop poor self esteem and or eating disorders. I'm sure they have gotten backlash for what happened with Kate Moss also. It may seem silly, but I think its really symbolic. If you go to the Dr. and you are under or over the average BMI, he is going to tell you that you MAY be putting your body at risk and are unhealthy. So the modelling community is using what Dr.'s consider to be the standard for a healthy weight, as their own, which is better than a dress size or, in my opinion, having to scrutinize every model and determine whether or not she is "too bony" or looks "starved", which is obviously very subjective. Personally, I think it would be a big improvement if they would also drug test the models.
Nuff said.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Progress is a slow process at times. Someone along the line decides that a certain look is the look to have and their contribution ends up changing the standard; someone decided being plump was a good look at one point, others decided on other features (big breasts at times, hips, no hips, etc.) I think it is possible to make a change, but it isn't going to happen overnight. We must start somewhere and at some time.

I also want to add that the modeling business is discriminatory as is. I'm way too short to do runway, some people don't have the look they want. It sucks, but it's life and I have enough other things going on for me.

 

[redambition]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Your not going to change a beauty standard by saying people under 18 BMI can't participate. There are many EASY ways to get around it. You change a beauty standard by NOT PICKING models that look like they are starved. Why is this so hard to comprehend?

there'd be no fashion shows then

designers would go on strike.

even healthy people who are way skinny can look unhealthy to others... and i think that's the crux of the problem. i know people thought i was unhealthy when i was thin. i'm 5'11" and i was quite skinny (60-65kg) for many years. despite the fact that i ate like a horse publically and often and i was obviously taking care of myself, people still assumed there was something wrong with me.

i didn't care. i let them think im a starving wannabe model. i knew better.

i've since gotten a little older and now im a bit heavier (about 75-80kg), but im not overweight for my height. even now i get depressed and sad over my body and weight because i felt far happier and healthier when i was skinnier. the problem is, i wouldn't get back to that weight now without really restricting food intake, doing a lot of exercise and generally just making my own life hell. at this point in time i'd rather weigh a little more (and have boobies

) than do that to myself. ask me again in a few weeks though. i may have changed my mind since it's coming up to summer here.

ooooh... something else that i forgot to add: the cafe where i get my breakfast on the way to work always has the fashion channel playing, so i've been keeping up with all the fashion weeks. i thought the models at madrid looked much better than others i'd seen. they were still quite thin, but they weren't as skeletal as what i've seen at other shows.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae They banned all of 5 models from the show. Not to mention the fact that the ones that were in the show were still going to be much thinner than any, "average woman." If your at an 18 BMI, your still going to be showing bones, and you would still probably classify as them as being starved and emancipated. So what was accomplished? Nothing. Other than make some the girls seek work elsewhere.

But the five models they didn't hire were not up to the standards as having a healthy bmi *shrug* Sounds effective to me.

As far as beauty of every color, I wonder how much of that is due to different color and cultures in the world having varying views on the roles of women.
Of course, that's another thread entirely.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer But the five models they didn't hire were not up to the standards as having a healthy bmi *shrug* Sounds effective to me.

lol... If you say so.

Show someone a photo of someone at 18BMI, i guarentee you that most will tell you the person is too skinny. When does it stop Shim? Many of the activist groups that are pressuring the modeling business to use, "curvier" models still think the models using in Madrid were too skinny. Since they average woman isn't at 18 bmi. It doesn't take a complicated study and research to figure that out. All you have to do it go look at the sizes that department stores stock the most of. In my city? It's 10-14.

Maybe this is indicative of something more? Maybe the issue isn't the fact that models are skinny. But that everyone else has gotten a lot larger?

 

[Shimmer]

Yes *rolls eyes* It's all the fault of fat people. </sarcasm>




Yes, society has gotten fatter.

But models have also gotten skinnier, trying to deny that would be ludicrous.


Don't try to force your own body image issues on everyone else as a legitimate argument.

 

[lara]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Don't try to force your own body image issues on everyone else as a legitimate argument.

I concur.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Don't try to force your own body image issues on everyone else as a legitimate argument.

I dont have issues with my size. I do have issues with people telling me it's not healthy looking because most people can't fit a size 0.