Socialized Medicine

[NutMeg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark Does everyone die waiting in Canada, though? What are the statistics?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dice1233 I agree everyone deserves a chance, but if everyone dies waiting for it? I know people die waiting here, but those with insurance are less likely to. A huge disparity that is in dramatic need of fixing, but how is making everyone wait improving it? I just think there must be a happy medium between the two extremes.

It's not necessarily improving it, its just that in Canada and other countries with universal healthcare we feel that not letting anyone go without vital medical service is more important than people waiting. Working on cutting down wait times is a big issue for us in Canada. To my knowledge, if you are dying and there is a cure you will not have to wait for it. We don't let people die if we can stop it. Unfortunately some people to have to wait for things like hip replacements, like my grandmother who waited for over 2 years when she could barely walk. It sucked because she had such limited mobility, I cleaned her house every week because she couldn't. And yes, that bothers me. But my grandmother makes less than twenty thousand dollars a year, Canadian. She couldn't have afforded to have a surgery like that in the States.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark From what was explained to me, everyone doesn't have to wait. You're welcome to go on private insurance if you like in countries with universal healthcare. The question comes in if you want to pay for a service you aren't using then.

You just inadvertently stumbled onto one of the biggest healthcare controversies in Canada at the moment. The two tier system. It doesn't exist, no matter how much money you have you will wait the same time. Everyone has to wait. There is a lot of talk of having one public system like what we have now, and then having separate clinics where you pay full price so the rich don't have to wait. If any other Canadians feel I haven't done this topic justice, feel free to take it from here, because I'm supposed to be writing a paper on Calvinism in Switzerland in the 1500s right now and I don't feel like writing a detailed and unbiased summary of the proposed two tier system.

 

[xStarryEyedX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashleyisawesome My family has never had much money. My dad died when I was three and my mom worked her ass off to take care of me and my sister. I was on the children's health insurance program and it cut me off at the age of 19, so I don't have health insurance, and I cannot afford it. I'm a full-time student (Biology/Pre-vet). My boyfriend also doesn't have health insurance because his family cannot afford it either.. and he has type 1 diabetes. With that said, I'm definitely for lower cost or government aided health care. I think a lot of people have it in their minds that everyone with government aid just lives off of the government and doesn't work, etc... which is true in some cases, but there are so many families that work their asses off to make ends meet and aren't blessed with a wealthy family, great job, etc. If it weren't for government assistance I wouldn't have the opportunity I do to further my education, go to college, and do something with my life. It's not fair that people who have money can sit back and judge those who don't.

I think we're kind of both in the same boat... I feel like I'm working my damn ass off and to hear people say they are working so they deserve insurance makes me kind of feel like so what, i'm not fucking working? I've been working since I was 14 in my parent's business then I got a job as soon as I turned 16... Then they got a divorce and things went down so I never took the SAT's and got super discouraged with college...Don't tell me I'm not working hard, I'm working harder than a whole damn lot of people I know. Same with my boyfriend, he has a lot of mental shit going on so he's working full time at a liquor store (he was waiting tables). He has a degree in science and works his damn ass off but he pays $400 a month... Who the hell is there to say we don't deserve what other people have... But then the people working for counties sitting on their asses behind desks have insane benefits a million sick days and half a million vacation days. What, so they're driving from job to job working from 6:30AM-midnight, yeah okay doubt that. But right, they deserve it, I don't.

I'm ranting bc I had one of those days today and I'm just grumpy

sorry..

Ugh, it's so frustrating. I wish something would change.

 

[Jinni]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark For those of you in universal healthcare systems, do they also include/encourage preventive medicines? My boyfriend, who has insurance, had to pay out of pocket completely to see a nutritionist (concerned about health). I'm also thinking about those stories where people's kids die from cavities in their teeth

Here, it covers some preventive medicines. It also covers some cosmetics procedures (such as dermatologist visits if you have acne).

Dental care is free until you turn 18, and then the government still pays a large percentage.

The government have recently implemented a treatment guarantee where there is a maximum number of weeks/months they can let you wait before surgery/scan/treatment etc. The number of weeks/months depend on your diagnose (the more serious, the less you wait). If they cannot treat you within that timeframe, you get treated at a private hospitale, but the state still pays.

Personally I really like the system. I lived in the US for 3 years, and even though I had insurance, it felt strange to me that some people couldn't get treatment.

Though if you don't want to pay for other people's healthcare, you might as well forget it. Here, you pay for others peoples education (College/university is free), healthcare, and unemployment (you get much more money and for much longer if you loose your job). I don't mind it and most people here don't, but it is a different mentality.

 

[*Stargazer*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jinni I honestly couldn't say if it would work in the US. It would certainly be more complicated with a country that size.

This is the most overlooked factor in the arguments for and against universal or socialized healthcare in the US. What's the current Canadian population? 33 million? That's around a tenth of the US population. What works for a country of one much smaller size needs major adjustments to work here. The systems simply can't be enlarged to fit here.

I believe that some form of affordable healthcare should be available for every person living here in the US legally. I don't particularly trust the gov't to run it, though. Fund it, maybe, but definitely not run it.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Quote:

I think we're kind of both in the same boat... I feel like I'm working my damn ass off and to hear people say they are working so they deserve insurance makes me kind of feel like so what, i'm not fucking working? I've been working since I was 14 in my parent's business then I got a job as soon as I turned 16... Then they got a divorce and things went down so I never took the SAT's and got super discouraged with college...Don't tell me I'm not working hard, I'm working harder than a whole damn lot of people I know. Same with my boyfriend, he has a lot of mental shit going on so he's working full time at a liquor store (he was waiting tables). He has a degree in science and works his damn ass off but he pays $400 a month... Who the hell is there to say we don't deserve what other people have... But then the people working for counties sitting on their asses behind desks have insane benefits a million sick days and half a million vacation days. What, so they're driving from job to job working from 6:30AM-midnight, yeah okay doubt that. But right, they deserve it, I don't. I'm ranting bc I had one of those days today and I'm just grumpy sorry.. Ugh, it's so frustrating. I wish something would change.

I sympathize with your boyfriend's job plight. A lot of really bright kids with degrees in things perceived difficult or useful can't find jobs. My friend spent a year working as a contract science editor (involved very little science) because she couldn't get a permanent job in science. It was cushier than what your boyfriend had, but there was very little security.

BTW, if you're without dental insurance now and may have some cavities, I believe dental students now are looking for patients for their boards. It's like a 3 hour process to fill a cavity (and you have to qualify and you must be there on a specific day on time), but it's free and you can also pick up some cash.

 

[jdechant]

^^And possibly some extra pain!!! Think hard about that choice as I did let student dentists work on my mouth!! 6 hours later with two wisdom teeth pulled, a molar pulled, cavities filled, xrays and with NO WARNING!! WTF was wrong with my wisdom teeth?? NOTHING!! lol..it was pure torture!!

 

[Lapis]

I come from a country with universal health care, but you can also pay and go privately which many do.
We have free dental, health and optician care, under 18, over 65 you get free health care most people just continue to see their dentist and opticians so there's no option for those (I think)
Between 18-65 you make the choice go use public heath care or private, private isn't that expensive tho, I pay $220 for my yearly check in the US, but back home I pay $60 which works out to be $30 USD.
Now granted publicly you have a wait as with all things, but if you have cancer you won't end up having to file for bankruptcy! and you will get good care!
My mother had emergency surgery, spent weeks in the hospital and had to go back 3 days a week for them to check her incision and had to pay NOTHING, it would have cost atleast 100k in the US after all the care she needed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vocaltest , shes constantly rubbing her hands/keyboard/mouse with that gel hand sanitizer stuff, and she also says that the own hospitals hand sanitizer which is readily available throughout the hospital is useless and doesn't work properly.

she's actually opening herself to infection by over using the anti bacterial stuff, which is sad as that's the reason there are so many super bugs.

 

[xStarryEyedX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdechant ^^And possibly some extra pain!!! Think hard about that choice as I did let student dentists work on my mouth!! 6 hours later with two wisdom teeth pulled, a molar pulled, cavities filled, xrays and with NO WARNING!! WTF was wrong with my wisdom teeth?? NOTHING!! lol..it was pure torture!!

yikes, that's awful!!

 

[jdechant]

^^Ughh..tell me about it...never again to STUDENT DENTISTS!! hahaha..thats just a personal preference...

 

[xStarryEyedX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdechant ^^Ughh..tell me about it...never again to STUDENT DENTISTS!! hahaha..thats just a personal preference...

my dentist actually mentioned going to a dental school after my $300 incident, but the only one around here is in a really bad area. did they have somebody watching the student work or were they just on their own?!

 

[Pnk85]

I am against universal health care but I do believe if a company has enough money to hire employees than they should be required by law to provide basic healthcare. If someone can't work than they should be able to get free healthcare, but it should not be available to people who do not have a legal right to be in the US.

My god brother has ADD & works as a janitor for the Texas DPS & has no healthcare benefits. His mom can't work because she has a slipped disc (sp?) in her spine but she doesn't qualify for free healthcare!!! So she can't get surgery on the slipped disc & the state sent her to one of 'their' doctors for a physical & she said she can work..... Whatever!! Anyway that's my personal opinion.......

 

[NutMeg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Stargazer* This is the most overlooked factor in the arguments for and against universal or socialized healthcare in the US. What's the current Canadian population? 33 million? That's around a tenth of the US population. What works for a country of one much smaller size needs major adjustments to work here. The systems simply can't be enlarged to fit here.

I think that's a really good point. According to Google, the Canadian population is about 33 million, and I think most of the countries that others are posting about in regards to having universal healthcare are also much smaller in population than the States. I still much prefer the reality of healthcare where I live, but it is very true that it isn't that simple when you're talking about several hundred million.

As an aside, would you guys mind very much posting what country you're from if it isn't shown in your user info? It just helps the discussion along if we know what kind of system you have where you live, or where you're from. Your statement will mean something different to the discussion if you're from Alabama than if you're from Denmark.

 

[xStarryEyedX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NutMeg As an aside, would you guys mind very much posting what country you're from if it isn't shown in your user info? It just helps the discussion along if we know what kind of system you have where you live, or where you're from. Your statement will mean something different to the discussion if you're from Alabama than if you're from Denmark.

america, may be obvious given the fact that i started the post- but i figured i'd get the ball rolling since you asked =)

 

[COBI]

To help put it in perspective, for those of you outside the US, what percent of your income do you pay in taxes?

TIA

 

[Pnk85]

I'm from America but my family moved here from South America, my mom moved to the states when she was 13 in the late 70's.

 

[.k.]

i dont mean to pour salt on a wound, but i am very blessed to work part time and still have health insurance including dental and vison

but i feel that i would be for socialized medicine had i the option to choose.

 

[Simply Elegant]

I think socialized medicine is for the better. Even if you work really hard now and have good benefits, you never know what can happen as you get older. It's nice to have some backup.

Right now I don't pay taxes because I'm still in school and living with my parents with a part time job and I make under the cut off which is around $9000 or so.

 

[NutMeg]

Info regarding federal income tax in Canada:

15% on the first $37,885 of taxable income, +
22% on the next $37,884 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $37,885 and $75,769), +
26% on the next $47,415 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $75,769 and $123,184), +
29% of taxable income over $123,184.

And provincial income tax by province:

Newfoundland and Labrador
8.2% on the first $30,215 of taxable income, +
13.3% on the next $30,214, +
16% on the amount over $60,429
Prince Edward Island
9.8% on the first $31,984 of taxable income, +
13.8% on the next $31,985, +
16.7% on the amount over $63,969
Nova Scotia
8.79% on the first $29,590 of taxable income, +
14.95% on the next $29,590, +
16.67% on the next $33,820 +
17.5% on the amount over $93,000
New Brunswick
10.12% on the first $34,836 of taxable income, +
15.48% on the next $34,837, +
16.8% on the next $43,600, +
17.95% on the amount over $113,273
Ontario
6.05% on the first $36,020 of taxable income, +
9.15% on the next $36,021, +
11.16% on the amount over $72,041
Manitoba
10.9% on the first $30,544 of taxable income, +
12.75% on the next $35,456, +
17.4% on the amount over $66,000
Saskatchewan
11% on the first $39,135 of taxable income, +
13% on the next $72,679, +
15% on the amount over $111,814
Alberta
10% of taxable income
British Columbia
5.06% on the first $35,016 of taxable income, +
7.7% on the next $35,017, +
10.5% on the next $10,373, +
12.29% on the next $17,230, +
14.7% on the amount over $97,636
Yukon
7.04% on the first $37,885 of taxable income, +
9.68% on the next $37,884, +
11.44% on the next $47,415, +
12.76% on the amount over $123,184
Northwest Territories
5.9% on the first $35,986 of taxable income, +
8.6% on the next $35,987, +
12.2% on the next $45,038, +
14.05% on the amount over $117,011
Nunavut
4% on the first $37,885 of taxable income, +
7% on the next $37,885, +
9% on the next $47,414, +
11.5% on the amount over $123,184

Sorry if that's a giant amount of info, I just thought I'd put it out there for those who were interested. Off the top of my head I know that my dad's income taxes end up being around 40%-50%, and he's in the top tax bracket.

 

[COBI]

We have many people at my company who choose to not take health insurance benefits that are offered (the company pays over 70% of the benefits costs; single employee costs are about $20 (pre-tax, so typically less than $15 take-home impact) because they don't want to pay for it.

So, my concern with the funding of socialized healthcare is the question of why we should all pay more in taxes when some people aren't even willing to pay for it themselves when given the option.

I am all for affordable healthcare, but not sure I've heard a solution that would work here yet.

Also, for every praise that I hear for socialized healthcare, I hear just as many negatives. For example, I know more than one person who has traveled from Canada to the US for surgery because of the "higher quality of doctor and service" (their words not mine) available here despite it costing them more.

 

[Jinni]

Quote:

Originally Posted by COBI To help put it in perspective, for those of you outside the US, what percent of your income do you pay in taxes?

I'm guessing around 45% when you factor everything in. Pretty standard here. Not having socialized healthcare here would be unthinkable. It's integrated in our culture and mentality. Just like free college/university, unemployment etc.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I don't know if it would work for a bigger country, mostly because of the much larger variations in income, culture, tradition, mentallity, etc.