Socialized Medicine

[TISH1124]

All employee plans are not as affordable...At my last job the rates were outrageous and the amount of benefits you received for the cost was equally
outrageous.

Single employee paid $35.70 a week
Employee + one $75.00 per week
Family coverage was $135.70 a week Over $550 per month
This was ONLY for Health and Dental....No vision

They did not even offer a co-pay...you still had to pay a percent of your invoice at the time of your office visit and most of your prescription cost. So it's not always that people decline to take the employee offered benefits...sometimes the benefits offered are just not affordable. It's hard for a single mother with kids to afford to pay $600 for benefits when she needs that $600 just to feed and clothe her kids.

My husband has excellent benefits so we pay I think roughly $250 a month for family...But there is hardly ever any out of pocket expenses for us other than the $20 co-pay and $5 rx drug fee. But I feel sorry for people who have to pay the outrageous fees and still have out of pocket expenses everytime they go to the doctors and they are barely making enough money to pay their bills and live as it is.

Again, that is why I am for affordable healthcare....A person making 25K a year may not necessary be able to afford the same rate as a person making $75 a year.

 

[jdechant]

^^Totally Agree. Plus, who's to say the person making 75K a year wont encounter job problems (with the current economy) and go down to 30K a year...You better believe that would encounter many problems for that family...medical expenses being one of them....especially if they had kids. One thing that I always wanted to know about was having children in the states. Do you have to pay for the doctors to deliver your baby? For your hospital room and the times you are in there?? My auntie had moved to the states with her husband about 7 to 8 years ago..and I thought I remember her telling me this??

 

[*Stargazer*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdechant ^^Totally Agree. Plus, who's to say the person making 75K a year wont encounter job problems (with the current economy) and go down to 30K a year...You better believe that would encounter many problems for that family...medical expenses being one of them....especially if they had kids. One thing that I always wanted to know about was having children in the states. Do you have to pay for the doctors to deliver your baby? For your hospital room and the times you are in there?? My auntie had moved to the states with her husband about 7 to 8 years ago..and I thought I remember her telling me this??

The bill for each of my children's deliveries has been between $45,000 to $60,000 each time.

 

[xStarryEyedX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Stargazer* The bill for each of my children's deliveries has been between $45,000 to $60,000 each time.

holy shit.. you know how moms always tell their kids "you know how much pain it was to have you!!!" when they screw up.. well you can tell your kids "DO YOU KNOW EXPENSIVE IT WAS FOR YOU TO BE BORN???!!!"

seriously though, that's absolutely insane. i didn't know it was that much... ha maybe i wont be having kids after all.

 

[jdechant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Stargazer* The bill for each of my children's deliveries has been between $45,000 to $60,000 each time.

HAHAHAHA..OMG and you actually have to pay this?? DAMN...thats birth control all on its own!!

 

[*Stargazer*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdechant HAHAHAHA..OMG and you actually have to pay this?? DAMN...thats birth control all on its own!!

Well, *I* didn't pay a dime for any of it. My insurance did. I've switched plans within my insurance so I'm going to have to pay for the child I'm having in May, but my yearly cap is $1,000, so I won't be paying any more than that.

To be fair, though, I did not have a single regular vaginal delivery, so those bills included surgical costs. I believe that a vaginal delivery costs my insurance company around $20-$25K.

 

[*Stargazer*]

^ I mistyped. The BILL my insurance gets for a vaginal delivery (not at a military hospital) is around $20K. They don't actually reimburse anywhere NEAR that amount, so the actual COST to the insurance company is much, much lower.

 

[xStarryEyedX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdechant HAHAHAHA..OMG and you actually have to pay this?? DAMN...thats birth control all on its own!!

seriously... could you imagine, what if you get pregnant and don't have that money....but you don't want to give the kid up for adoption or have an aborion (hypothetically speaking, kind of just typing as i'm thinking actually)... you know there are def. some people who are in that situation...

wow for real, they don't know what type of sex education to teach in highschools, tell them how much $$ it is just to have the baby. they'll start using condoms real fast.

 

[COBI]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TISH1127 All employee plans are not as affordable...At my last job the rates were outrageous and the amount of benefits you received for the cost was equally outrageous. Single employee paid $35.70 a week Employee + one $75.00 per week Family coverage was $135.70 a week Over $550 per month This was ONLY for Health and Dental....No vision They did not even offer a co-pay...you still had to pay a percent of your invoice at the time of your office visit and most of your prescription cost. So it's not always that people decline to take the employee offered benefits...sometimes the benefits offered are just not affordable. It's hard for a single mother with kids to afford to pay $600 for benefits when she needs that $600 just to feed and clothe her kids. My husband has excellent benefits so we pay I think roughly $250 a month for family...But there is hardly ever any out of pocket expenses for us other than the $20 co-pay and $5 rx drug fee. But I feel sorry for people who have to pay the outrageous fees and still have out of pocket expenses everytime they go to the doctors and they are barely making enough money to pay their bills and live as it is. Again, that is why I am for affordable healthcare....A person making 25K a year may not necessary be able to afford the same rate as a person making $75 a year.

I agree that sometimes the benefits offered are not attractive; however, I was using the example of my company where people are not willing to pay $20 a week ($15 or less out of their net check), do you really think they will be happy to have to pay 15-20% more in taxes to cover everyone's insurance? It's going to cost someone at $25k more than $20 a week in taxes and even more than your costs of $40 a week (possibly as much as double that amount).

That's why I say I haven't actually seen any solutions yet that make sense. I don't think you'll ever find someone who says that they don't think we should have affordable healthcare. I've never met anyone who didn't agree with the concept of affordable healthcare, the problem is the "how?".

For instance, in your example, that single mother with kids is too little information to use as an example. $600 paying for insurance is not $600 out of her take-home pay, it's out of pre-tax pay, so the take-home effect is likely les than $100 a week. Plus your sample doesn't reference any other potential cash she may have coming in (such as child support or if she is making $25k, other state/federal assistance). OK, so let's $100 a week is still too rich for her; how will she plan to pay off $100k+ in medical expenses if god forbid something happens to her or her children? In addition, many times insurance companies have contracted lower rates for services than someone coming in without insurance will pay.

Not trying to pick it apart, but I think we'd agree that it's not a simple issue.

 

[Prinsesa]

I'd go with Canada's healthcare system anyday before US's. I'd rather pay little by little from paycheque to paycheque than to pull out money I don't have out of my pocket for something that I couldn't control.

Pay $10-$200 each paycheque (depending on your salary)
VS.
Pay $103249850974509743 for one surgery/operation/transplant etc.

 

[jdechant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xStarryEyedX seriously... could you imagine, what if you get pregnant and don't have that money....but you don't want to give the kid up for adoption or have an aborion (hypothetically speaking, kind of just typing as i'm thinking actually)... you know there are def. some people who are in that situation... wow for real, they don't know what type of sex education to teach in highschools, tell them how much $$ it is just to have the baby. they'll start using condoms real fast.

HAHA..yah, if I was pregnant, I would smuggle my ass into Alberta and get myself a fake Alberta Health Care card..HAHA..problem solved..

 

[xStarryEyedX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prinsesa I'd go with Canada's healthcare system anyday before US's. I'd rather pay little by little from paycheque to paycheque than to pull out money I don't have out of my pocket for something that I couldn't control. Pay $10-$200 each paycheque (depending on your salary) VS. Pay $103249850974509743 for one surgery/operation/transplant etc.

....that's one expensive effin' surgery

(sorry, i crack myself up)

 

[*Stargazer*]

Here's an interesting factoid on our health system here in the US.
Quote:

Common chronic conditions (including coronary artery disease, diabetes, congestive heart failure, asthma, and depression) are responsible for 75 percent of our health care spending. George Halvorson, chairman and CEO of Kaiser Foundation Health Plan and author of Health Care Reform Now! A Prescription for Change, argues that we should follow the money -- and fight these diseases with all we've got, including early intervention and consistent follow-up care. The payoff: If just 1 percent of people with these conditions were successfully treated, we could shave at least $77 billion off the health care tab. "Diabetes is the fastest-growing disease in America," he says, so focusing on that alone could save billions. "Medicare can be saved if we could cut the number of people becoming diabetic in half." The action plan: Type 2 diabetes, in particular, is a lifestyle disease. Just a simple 30-minute walk every day, says Halvorson, could help achieve his 50 percent goal. We can all take more responsibility for our own health. Start a walking club. If you have diabetes or heart disease, follow up with your doctor and commit to a treatment plan. Learn more at fightchronicdisease.org. Need more motivation? Check out deathclock.com, suggests Rep. Jim Cooper (D-TN). It lets you see your statistical expiration date, given the risk factors of age, weight, and smoking.

America is pouring money into caring for people, like diabetics and people with heart disease because many (not all, of course) of them are grossly overweight and MADE THEMSELVES seriously ill. Do you know what the rate is for children becoming Type 2 Diabetics now? It's on the rise because even our children are fat and many parents don't really take serious responsibility for it.

Socialized healthcare here MUST have a prevention component in order for it to work and we have to get away from this PC bullshit of sparing people's feelings when they are eating themselves, or letting their children eat themselves, to death.

 

[xxAngelxx]

^ I so agree with that. People need to take responsibility for theirselves! Tanning can lead to skin cancer, smoking can lead to a myriad of respiratory problems, not eating well and exercising really worsens diabetes, drinking and drugs during pregnancy can give you a malformed baby.... The list goes on and on.

A prevenention component is KEY to any healthcare plan we implement. But we'll never get rid of tanning beds, cigarettes, drugs, fast food, etc. (Just listing some examples - no offense to those who smoke, are overweight, etc.) People will always get sick when it could have been prevented.

 

[Dice1233]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prinsesa I'd go with Canada's healthcare system anyday before US's. I'd rather pay little by little from paycheque to paycheque than to pull out money I don't have out of my pocket for something that I couldn't control. Pay $10-$200 each paycheque (depending on your salary) VS. Pay $103249850974509743 for one surgery/operation/transplant etc.

Yeah, put a little bit of each paycheck into insurance. It's the same concept, just not mandated and on low payscales you many not have enough for adequate insurance. I think there are more solutions to this than just private insurance like we have and universal healthcare like Canada has.

 

[girlsaidwhat]

I live in the US.
I think that socialized medicine certainly has its flaws...but at the same time I strongly believe that until health care is a basic human right instead of something only the wealthy can afford, we're doing our own citizens an extreme disservice. It teaches people what we are worth...the message is that you aren't worth taking care of in this country, unless you are rich. (crazy bs!!!)

In a country founded on capitalism, it's not /that/ surprising. Still...I think this is a human issue, and I.... wish that the US would be leaders in the world on treating it's citizens as if they have /worth/ on this very basic level.

 

[xStarryEyedX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Stargazer* Here's an interesting factoid on our health system here in the US. America is pouring money into caring for people, like diabetics and people with heart disease because many (not all, of course) of them are grossly overweight and MADE THEMSELVES seriously ill. Do you know what the rate is for children becoming Type 2 Diabetics now? It's on the rise because even our children are fat and many parents don't really take serious responsibility for it. Socialized healthcare here MUST have a prevention component in order for it to work and we have to get away from this PC bullshit of sparing people's feelings when they are eating themselves, or letting their children eat themselves, to death.

sooo true, i went out to eat with my bf tonight and we saw a family that was exactly what you were talking about. i wanted to rip the damn food off the kids plate and tell the parents that it's fine if they don't value their own health, but there were plenty of healthier options on the menu to be telling their 10 year old obese son to eat. like for real, do you not care or what's the deal... you can't possibly not realize what you're doing, teach the poor kid he's not gonna know on his own what's healthy and what's not.

rant. sorry.i do that a lot. but honestly, you're right. health care is very important but without attempting to be healthy you're not really helping the matter.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Is there a preventive component to current insurance in the US? My boyfriend, like I said, couldn't go to a nutritionist. I have to pay a lot to visit my gyno and pay for my STD tests.

I know these aren't on the level of diabetes and other health issues that we cause by overeating and not exercising, but I consider them important and preventive.

If preventive health care were available, I wonder how many people would take advantage of it if it meant a lifestyle change.

 

[redambition]

I'm from Australia, and we have a two tier system.

While it is not perfect, i certainly sleep better at night knowing that if i have a medical emergency i will be taken care of and i won't be sent bankrupt.

i have spent a large amount of time dealing with the public health system recently as a loved one was ill, and the care he received was top notch. sure, there was some waiting involved as he wasn't in a life-threatening situation, but he was well taken care of.

i can't fathom having a private-only health system. to me, health care is a basic right, not a privilege you should have to pay for.

 

[Delilah]

I'm from Australia as well. Of all the things my taxes go to pay for, healthcare is one of the best. Our healthcare system is not perfect, but you can bet when something goes wrong we are up in arms and expect someone to be accountable.

Basically in Australia, with our 2-tier system you can go public or private (generally you would have private health insurance if you went private). The benefits of private are meant to be shorter waiting times and choice of who treats you. Public is there for everyone and ensure nobody goes bankrupt to have treatment.

To me its a simple question of whether you believe healthcare is a right or a privilege. I am proud to live in a country that will take care of the sick, just as we will educate our children.