The American Health Care System... sucks =[ (Sicko, Michael Moore)

[xbeatofangelx]

After watching Michael Moore's movie "sicko" with my boyfriend, I've decided to apply for dual citizenship to Canada. (My parents, brother, grandparents are all Canadian citizens).

Has anyone else watched this movie and felt the same sentiments?

 

[giz2000]

I haven't watched the movie yet...but I totally agree that our healthcare system (especially the insurance part of it) sucks big time.

 

[user79]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xbeatofangelx After watching Michael Moore's movie "sicko" with my boyfriend, I've decided to apply for dual citizenship to Canada. (My parents, brother, grandparents are all Canadian citizens). Has anyone else watched this movie and felt the same sentiments?

I'm sorry, but applying to become a citizen of Canada for healthcare alone is really not a good enough reason. This really annoys me when Americans want to take advantage of our system, instead of lobbying to improve their own.

 

[Shimmer]

That's okay Julia, it really annoys me when non-Americans want to take advantage of the opportunities afforded in my country instead of lobbying to improve their own, too.

 

[lipstickandhate]

I can't believe people still watch the things Michael Moore makes.

 

[lipstickandhate]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissChievous I'm sorry, but applying to become a citizen of Canada for healthcare alone is really not a good enough reason. This really annoys me when Americans want to take advantage of our system, instead of lobbying to improve their own.

LoL. All those Americans dying to become Canadian citizens! Do you guys have a big problem with illegal American immigrants clogging up your clinics?

No offense, but I think most Americans forget you even exist.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissChievous I'm sorry, but applying to become a citizen of Canada for healthcare alone is really not a good enough reason. This really annoys me when Americans want to take advantage of our system, instead of lobbying to improve their own.

Eh.

I dont think countries with public healthcare are prefect eigther. You could easily do a documentary just like sicko on all the problems countries like Canada and Britian have because of their public healthcare.

There is no perfect solution.

 

[user79]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lipstickandhate LoL. All those Americans dying to become Canadian citizens! Do you guys have a big problem with illegal American immigrants clogging up your clinics? No offense, but I think most Americans forget you even exist.

Even if most Americans forget we exist, which I know isn't true, the USA would be a in bad state economically if Canada didn't exit. Canada remains your biggest economic trading partner for exports and imports, so your statment is pretty laughable.

@ shimmer, even if people do come to the States to have an operation or something, they have to pay for it themselves, it's not being paid for by American taxpayers...

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissChievous @ shimmer, even if people do come to the States to have an operation or something, they have to pay for it themselves, it's not being paid for by American taxpayers...

I think she was talking more about illegal immigration, and all the benefits that they recieve even when here illegally. Not to mention job opportunities and things they take away from legal citizens. Not to mention all the money that they take out of the American Economy and send back to their home countries. It does make an impact.

Also a lot of public facilities have a don't ask don't tell policy about immigration, because they are so afraid of being sued for racism because they asked them to prove their citizenship. I know the school my Mom was a teacher at (she retired this year) had a very large amount of illegal hispanic students who recieved an education on California tax payers.

And hospitals will give treatment to illegal aliens. It's not free to treat pregnant women who are border crossing in 100 degree desert weather. Not to mention all the care their babies recieve once they give birth in the states.

 

[user79]

Well yes, but illegal immigration is an entirely different subject...

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissChievous Even if most Americans forget we exist, which I know isn't true, the USA would be a in bad state economically if Canada didn't exit. Canada remains your biggest economic trading partner for exports and imports, so your statment is pretty laughable. @ shimmer, even if people do come to the States to have an operation or something, they have to pay for it themselves, it's not being paid for by American taxpayers...

Education? American taxpayers DO subsidize foreigners' educations.

 

[user79]

^ I don't understand what you mean? What foreigners? As in people who immigrate legally to the USA? They also pay taxes, do they not?

I thought this thread was about healthcare?

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissChievous ^ I don't understand what you mean? What foreigners? As in people who immigrate legally to the USA? They also pay taxes, do they not? I thought this thread was about healthcare?

She's talking about illegals who take advantage of public institutions on America. And there are lots of them.

To stick to healthcare. If an illegal needs emergency room healthcare, that will be done on them. And when they can't pay.... Yup. Taxpayers fit the bill.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissChievous ^ I don't understand what you mean? What foreigners? As in people who immigrate legally to the USA? They also pay taxes, do they not? I thought this thread was about healthcare?

Also, wouldn't this be a perfectly AOK reason to immigrate legally to Canada? Afterall, if your living there, and are a citizen, your paying taxes right? So they would be chipping in their part towards public healthcare, and should be allowed to take full advantage of the system. So I don't see why you would be upset if people wanted to live in Canada, specifically to get better healthcare. Since they are paying taxes.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

^ I don't understand what you mean? What foreigners? As in people who immigrate legally to the USA? They also pay taxes, do they not? I thought this thread was about healthcare?

The thread is about healthcare, you brought up people taking advantage of 'your system' though.
Example:
My former employer was a Chinese citizen, came to America (taxpayer's dime...paid her ticket), was given free education (again, taxpayer's dime. She went to OSU then UGA.), got her Master's for free. Free housing, free entertainment allowance, free food allowance, free transportation passes, everything. Hers. For free. Taxpayers covered it. Was given her first job, six figure a year, straight out of college before she actually graduated. She has no debt, she paid for none of it. Taxpayers paid for it all. She has no intention of becoming an American citizen and is currently here on a Visa. Yes she pays taxes but she also gets serious breaks as far as housing, business opportunities, and taxes.

Quote:

She's talking about illegals who take advantage of public institutions on America. And there are lots of them. To stick to healthcare. If an illegal needs emergency room healthcare, that will be done on them. And when they can't pay.... Yup. Taxpayers fit the bill.

Actually I wasn't, but that's applicable as well.

 

[xbeatofangelx]

Wow that's a good deal. Do you know who offered her all those things? Both my parents came to the US from China on Scholarships, but they had to teach while they attended school.

It's also very difficult to obtain US citizenship, which is why we moved to Canada. I don't remember ever really having to go to the doctor during grade school, but I know the government paid for my Grandpa's physical therapy and medications.

One of the key points of Michael Moore's film, was that Americans are obsessed with "me", and "mine". Countries with universal health care, on the other hand, don't mind paying higher taxes for other peoples' health care, because they would want the same security if something happened to them.

Quote:
She's talking about illegals who take advantage of public institutions on America. And there are lots of them.

To stick to healthcare. If an illegal needs emergency room healthcare, that will be done on them. And when they can't pay.... Yup. Taxpayers fit the bill.

Actually... what Michael Moore showed in the film was that people who couldn't pay for their treatments were being dumped on the street near skid row, for example. People who were treated, in particular, at USC's county hospital.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Before you go all pro or anti Michael Moore (as liberal as I am, I personally can't stand him), please research the opposing arguments. I have not seen this film of his, but I'm sure there are some fallacies in his logic, though I hear this is one of his better ones.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xbeatofangelx Actually... what Michael Moore showed in the film was that people who couldn't pay for their treatments were being dumped on the street near skid row, for example. People who were treated, in particular, at USC's county hospital.

Hospitals are required by law to stabalize (spelling?) a patient. After that they can be released.

 

[Dizzy]

Please don't base your opinion of ANY healthcare system on a movie made by Michael Moore. Hell, please don't base ANY opinions on his until you've done the research. He's known for leaving out or distorting facts to suit his own opinions regarding certain topics.

I have my issues with Sicko. I think that while Universal Healthcare can, and does to an extent, work for certain countries well enough, it would not work for America. On paper it's a beautiful concept, in practice I doubt it'd work for us.

While everyone may be able to get free healthcare, that doesn't mean that it's always readily available.

Example: I went to school in Buffalo, NY for a semester. I had to go to a 24 hr clinic one night because there was a lapse in my insurance and I was sick as all hell. It was crowded and I got to talking with a few of the people in the waiting room. The two I was talking to were both Canadians who crossed the boarder and were willing to pay whatever necessary for immediate healthcare.

So while Canada might enjoy free healthcare, that doesn't mean that it's without its flaws. Long lines and rationing isn't something you'd like when you need immediate relief, you know?

Not to mention, but sometimes dealing with the state is similar to dealing with an HMO. There are plenty of cases dealing with people who needed major surgery (hip replacements, pacemakers, etc) and were put on waiting lists. Sixteen months for a hip replacement means a lot of pain, not to mention a detriment to the economy since that's another person who can't work and is therefore now subsidized by the people. That adds up. Think of how many people already abuse our welfare system as it is, now imagine how that would be for healthcare? Don't think for a minute that the people who abuse welfare wouldn't abuse universal healthcare.

And you'd also have the problem of cultural history fighting against it. Any way you look at it even the mildly educated American can tell you that, as a whole, Americans don't like anything remotely socialist. Universal healthcare can be construed as socialist. We didn't fight the Cold War for nothing. You can dismiss that all you want, but when push comes to shove our history will be a huge hurdle when trying to get Americans to accept universal healthcare. Perfect example: look at the history of most Caribbean nations and look at how their history affects their current lifestyles and societies. It's not much different in the US.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't think that our current system is the best possible; but I do think it's pretty damn good for us. I don't think that universal healthcare is what the US needs, nor necessarily wants.

 

[Raerae]

Generally I think the people who want universal healthcare are those that can't afford to pay for their own, or can't get insurance. Realistically, a healthcare system like that benefits the lower class, and leave the bill for the middle and upper class. Generally if your working a job that puts you in the average middle class to upper class pay range, your probably going to be recieveing a benefits package from your employer. Or you earn enough to pay for private healthcare.

As someone who has insurance coverage, I'm not overly worried about healthcare. Not to mention, I typically pay for my prescriptions and checkup's out of my own pocket even when I have coverage, because I'm comfortable with my current doctor, and I have the disposable income availible to pay a few hundred every few month for meds, and checkups etc. So even though I have coverage, I don't even really use it. It's not like I need to choose my birthcontrol or eating for the month, i earn enough to pay for both.