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[ThePerfectScore]

I just had this conversation with an Indian friend about about beauty. At first the conversation was about weight and to make a long story short she thinks Kate Moss's body is perfection, while I'm more along the lines of Kim Kardashian. She said that men only like thin women and that any other body type is obnoxious and that men only settle for fat women. Oh and she also said that men set the standard of beauty. So as you could guess that made me livid.
Then to add even more insult to injury she said that men like white women more than any other race b/c white women are thinner and their skin is better and their features are more defined and delicate. Lord help me when she actually made this statement, "White is perfection."
All I could say was, " There is no such thing as perfection and I'm sorry for you that you live in a society where you are not considered beautiful. Beauty comes in every shade, not just white." She is a gorgeous Indian woman... and I'm a black woman. So she basically told me she was closer to perfection than I was yet both of us were still too far away. I swear, it was like hearing Hitler's dream.

I just wanted to share this story that both deeply saddened and angered me. But I can't get mad at her. I can only get mad at a society and culture than instilled in her that only a size 2 white woman could be considered beautiful. Now I know beauty comes in all shapes and sizes and all colors. This site is living proof that everyone is beautiful, and the variation in features that make up the human race is amazing!

so my question is... How do I get this girl to see that she is beautiful as a woman of color? That she is beautiful as a woman? That she is beautiful as a human being?

 

[IDontKnowMomo]

Honestly, I give up instantly on anybody that has an opinion that only one race, shape, or standard is beautiful.

Oh, and I didn't know women were thinner and had better skin... >:[

 

[SakurasamaLover]

This is really sad but you cannot undo all the perceptions she had and the environment she grew up in only by having a talk with her. Culture is really strong and the 'white is perfection' perception is a common idea in India, yes it's sad. But.. in a general point of view our whole consumer society is becoming more and more artificial and extreme.

We almost all seek for what our culture as shown us as the 'Ideal' sadly for us, an ideal is exactly what it says: AN IDEA.. nothing more: but nothing less.

 

[ThePerfectScore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDontKnowMomo Honestly, I give up instantly on anybody that has an opinion that only one race, shape, or standard is beautiful. Oh, and I didn't know women were thinner and had better skin... >:[

yeah it was like an hour long conversation about weight, race, gender and beauty. It was like trying to tell a brick wall to move, I could have stood there all night with no progress, but I eventually had to go around the wall and change the subject.

 

[IDontKnowMomo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePerfectScore yeah it was like an hour long conversation about weight, race, gender and beauty. It was like trying to tell a brick wall to move, I could have stood there all night with no progress, but I eventually had to go around the wall and change the subject.

Ugh, I wouldn't have been able to change the subject, I wouldn't be able to talk to her :[
It's not only one thing to have those opinions, but to say that most other people have them also? goodness.

 

[ThePerfectScore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SakurasamaLover We almost all seek for what our culture as shown us as the 'Ideal' sadly for us, an ideal is exactly what it says: AN IDEA.. nothing more: but nothing less.

I really love that.. well said!

 

[Shoegal-fr]

Her thoughts are typical of people who live in a country that has been colonized for a very long time.

 

[spectrolite]

It sounds like your friend has some real self-image issues. Changing someones perceptions that they have held on to for so long would be difficult to do in the span of one conversation. That's like trying to undo years of negative programming. Learning to accept that all skin colours, all people are beautiful is something she will have to do herself. Having someone like you around to reinforce it is definitely positive. Just do your best to be there for her and show her what a confident and beautiful person you are and maybe it will rub off on her

 

[babycoconut]

This is very unfortunate, and sadly not uncommon. I know of many other cultures (my mom's for example) where this kind of thinking still is alive and kicking. And would you believe that in many of these countries, bleaching creams are too popular! These women have gorgeous brown skin that I see many try to copy here, but since it's not "white" or "delicate" its ugly. Did she ever wonder if being pure white is perfection, why are bronzers and tanning so popular here?

Anyway,I have to say that there really isn't anything you can do with this thinking. If this is how she is brought up, you would basically need to give her a new brain transplant to change it. Best you can do is keep doing you and stay beautiful yourself.

 

[iadoremac]

Personally i think beauty is relative. I know men that only prefer big women and cant stand skinny women, i know black men that can only date black women and black men that cant date black women. But at the end of the day whether you are a size 2 or a size 24 whether you are white black yellow whatever its all about how you see yourself and how you carry yourself and I think its a shame that some women let the world tell them how to think. I am a U.S size 6 and people still have the nerve to tell me that i am fat and some people tell me that I am too skinny, but i dont listen to what anybody says because i love myself the way i am and i think its important for every woman to do that because if you dont then who will

 

[CandiGirl21]

so basically, she told you in another form that she's insecure and wants to be White? Hmm...Women like this makes me cringe.

 

[iadoremac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoegal-fr Her thoughts are typical of people who live in a country that has been colonized for a very long time.

I really dont think her thoughts have anything to do with whether or not her people have been colonized. my country was colonized for hundreds of years till the 1960's and the women in my country do not have that mentality at all. We like being black and we realise and acknowledge the fact that even if the rest of the world may not admit it but black is extremely beautiful

 

[Shoegal-fr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iadoremac I really dont think her thoughts have anything to do with whether or not her people have been colonized. my country was colonized for hundreds of years till the 1960's and the women in my country do not have that mentality at all. We like being black and we realise and acknowledge the fact that even if the rest of the world may not admit it but black is extremely beautiful

Uh, i don't know what country you come from. But, colonization has a major influence on how colonized people see themselves. In india, the Victorian Era colonization was particulary known for introducing the "biological racism concept" in people's mind. Just see some works of Sir Francis Galton.
Not to mention that Indian people still suffer from castes within their own society. Some of them are degraded on a daily basis, so no surprise that they feel that the white british model is a superior goal to achieve.

Many people still suffer from having to compare themselves to the white colonization ideal. And like someone said earlier in this thread, you can find a ridiculous amount of whitening creams in these countries. This is certainly not a coincidence.

Some other countries have dealt with these issues, this is definitely not the case of India.

 

[iadoremac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoegal-fr Uh, i don't know what country you come from. But, colonization has a major influence on how colonized people see themselves. In india, the Victorian Era colonization was particulary known for introducing the "biological racism concept" in people's mind. Just see some works of Sir Francis Galton. Not to mention that Indian people still suffer from castes within their own society. Some of them are degraded on a daily basis, so no surprise that they feel that the white british model is a superior goal to achieve. Many people still suffer from having to compare themselves to the white colonization ideal. And like someone said earlier in this thread, you can find a ridiculous amount of whitening creams in these countries. This is certainly not a coincidence. Some other countries have dealt with these issues, this is definitely not the case of India.

Hmm ok ...........did not know you were just referring to india i thought you were making a general comment about all colonised countries.
Even though we do have bleaching creams in my country its used by people that are already light skinned and dont want to get darker although i am aware of some dark skinned women who use it but its generally frowned upon

 

[Shoegal-fr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iadoremac Hmm ok ...........did not know you were just referring to india i thought you were making a general comment about all colonised countries. Even though we do have bleaching creams in my country its used by people that are already light skinned and dont want to get darker although i am aware of some dark skinned women who use it but its generally frowned upon

I was making a general statement that these thoughts are typical of long time colonized people, i was not saying that all long time colonized people necessarily think that way...
Plus, there are many different types of colonization.
From the simple economical pillage to the real cultural occupation which is way more perverse...

 

[ginger9]

I can understand individual preferences but she took it to another level by dictating that HER ideal was THE ideal. I mean that is just sad and ignorant.

I have my own perferences for men but that doesn't mean it's the universal truth y'know? It's a shame she doesn't even think her own race is her "ideal". The whole concept of an ideal is in itself so limiting. I mean I love to appreciate people of all race and cultures, that's what beauty means to me - diversity! We should totally celebrate that.

 

[Shoegal-fr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginger9 I can understand individual preferences but she took it to another level by dictating that HER ideal was THE ideal. I mean that is just sad and ignorant. I have my own perferences for men but that doesn't mean it's the universal truth y'know? It's a shame she doesn't even think her own race is comparable to her "ideal". The whole concept of an ideal is in itself so limiting. I mean I love to appreciate people of all race and cultures, that's what beauty means to me - diversity! We should totally celebrate that.

Exactly, and the fact that someone thinks that his ideal is an ABSOLUTE ideal is a symptom of an extremely perverse brainwashing which has induced the idea that she isn't even worth to look at as someone who is beautiful in her own way.

 

[iadoremac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginger9 I can understand individual preferences but she took it to another level by dictating that HER ideal was THE ideal. I mean that is just sad and ignorant. I have my own perferences for men but that doesn't mean it's the universal truth y'know? It's a shame she doesn't even think her own race is comparable to her "ideal". The whole concept of an ideal is in itself so limiting. I mean I love to appreciate people of all race and cultures, that's what beauty means to me - diversity! We should totally celebrate that.

I agree,

 

[Shadowy Lady]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoegal-fr Uh, i don't know what country you come from. But, colonization has a major influence on how colonized people see themselves. In india, the Victorian Era colonization was particulary known for introducing the "biological racism concept" in people's mind. Just see some works of Sir Francis Galton. Not to mention that Indian people still suffer from castes within their own society. Some of them are degraded on a daily basis, so no surprise that they feel that the white british model is a superior goal to achieve. Many people still suffer from having to compare themselves to the white colonization ideal. And like someone said earlier in this thread, you can find a ridiculous amount of whitening creams in these countries. This is certainly not a coincidence. Some other countries have dealt with these issues, this is definitely not the case of India.

I agree with everything you said. I have many Indian friends and unfortunately, a lot of them do feel this way, I kinda blame their parents though (especially their moms) who carried the wrong ideas about beauty with them from the previous generations. I posted this in another thread, but one of these friends' mom used to tell me that I should go to India as I'm fair and lovely and there will be tones of men who'd wanna marry me :/ (mind you, I'm not fair, more like an NW30, but it's a relative term)

Anyway, beauty is relative. I personally never thought of a race to be more beautiful than other. But when someone has ideas like that implemented in them it's hard to change their minds

 

[Shoegal-fr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowy Lady I agree with everything you said. I have many Indian friends and unfortunately, a lot of them do feel this way, I kinda blame their parents though (especially their moms) who carried the wrong ideas about beauty with them from the previous generations. I posted this in another thread, but one of these friends' mom used to tell me that I should go to India as I'm fair and lovely and there will be tones of men who'd wanna marry me :/ (mind you, I'm not fair, more like an NW30, but it's a relative term) Anyway, beauty is relative. I personally never thought of a race to be more beautiful than other. But when someone has ideas like that implemented in them it's hard to change their minds

It's so sad. Actually, i think these kind of thoughts are a form of the Stockholm Syndrome. These people identify themselves to an ideal that completely implies the negation of their own identity and thus history.
That's really dangerous.
And i'm so sick that medias keep playing this game, whenever it glorifies the white and/or anorexic beauty ideal.
And those beauty brands that sell those very dangerous whitening creams and just make plenty of money on a racist prejudice... really sick!