Well Saddam is finally dead
- Thread starter Hawkeye
- Start date
IslandGirl77
Well-known member
Quote:
You aren't lying. I heard within 30 days, then 48 hours, then in a few hours and then right down to 15 minutes. Crazy. I really dont' know how I feel about it either. I'm sure alot of people are relieved.
Originally Posted by Shimmer
it's truly a moment in history. I can't say he didn't deserve (IMO) what he got, but wow did he get it quick. |
You aren't lying. I heard within 30 days, then 48 hours, then in a few hours and then right down to 15 minutes. Crazy. I really dont' know how I feel about it either. I'm sure alot of people are relieved.
CrystalStars
Well-known member
I just see this being seen with mixed results. Half of Iraq will be celebrating, the other half will be rioting. I just hope no innocent people get hurt because of him being hung.
And..reading on CNN.com ..this makes me think the timing on this was realllly bad.
There is a belief that the execution could be soon because the law does not permit executions to be carried out during religious holidays.
Eid begins Saturday for Sunnis and Sunday for Shiites and lasts for four days. Hussein is a Sunni Muslim.
-really- bad timing..guys. Especially if it's different days for Shiites and Sunnis, that's all the excuse they need to get violent. I don't see how it's going to solve anything. He's now a martyr for all the Sunnis that followed him, too. I think it woulda been smarter to let him rot in a jail cell for a while longer. Or at least killed him after this religious period.
And..reading on CNN.com ..this makes me think the timing on this was realllly bad.
There is a belief that the execution could be soon because the law does not permit executions to be carried out during religious holidays.
Eid begins Saturday for Sunnis and Sunday for Shiites and lasts for four days. Hussein is a Sunni Muslim.
-really- bad timing..guys. Especially if it's different days for Shiites and Sunnis, that's all the excuse they need to get violent. I don't see how it's going to solve anything. He's now a martyr for all the Sunnis that followed him, too. I think it woulda been smarter to let him rot in a jail cell for a while longer. Or at least killed him after this religious period.
Beauty Mark
Well-known member
I'm concerned about martyrdom. Was Saddam a horrible person who deserved death? I think most people will say yes. However, I don't know if he's more dangerous alive than dead. I think it's terrible they did it so close to the holiday, especially when they knew about it.
Hawkeye
Well-known member
Well i will be surprised if they don't. Honestly. But I gotta agree with Shimmer-he deserved it. But about it being the holiday-I have a feeling the Iraqi government had enough of him.
Who knows this could mark the day where we can finally leave Iraq.
I still remember the images on TV when they toppled the statue
I don't know. I'm glad he's gone. Sometimes you gotta kill one to save the hundreds but at the same time its a human life-but he obviously didn't give a rip about it.
I almost wonder though if this is the dawn of a new era. An era where Iraq can settle down and the violence it slowly settles because those rioting etc will realize that the people they don't want it any more.
Who knows-I know I'm just a dreamer-but at the same time I have hope but we watched a moment in history folks. We heard it on the news. It's been a long 4 years.
Either way- the timing- I can't say if it's good or bad. I just know at this moment-it simply *IS* perhaps the government there they wanted to get it over with- well they decided and it's done either way.
So now it is usless whether it was done right or wrong but now the question remains-what lies ahead?
Who knows this could mark the day where we can finally leave Iraq.
I still remember the images on TV when they toppled the statue
I don't know. I'm glad he's gone. Sometimes you gotta kill one to save the hundreds but at the same time its a human life-but he obviously didn't give a rip about it.
I almost wonder though if this is the dawn of a new era. An era where Iraq can settle down and the violence it slowly settles because those rioting etc will realize that the people they don't want it any more.
Who knows-I know I'm just a dreamer-but at the same time I have hope but we watched a moment in history folks. We heard it on the news. It's been a long 4 years.
Either way- the timing- I can't say if it's good or bad. I just know at this moment-it simply *IS* perhaps the government there they wanted to get it over with- well they decided and it's done either way.
So now it is usless whether it was done right or wrong but now the question remains-what lies ahead?
amoona
Well-known member
Quote:
Hmm that's weird, CNN said this? All the Shiites I know are celebrating tomorrow because Eid ul-Adha marks the ending of the Hajj and according to my uncle who is there right now they finished today. Oh well, us Arabs are weird like that and EVERY country always starts on different days and nobody ever agrees ... grr haha.
BUT anyway I had no idea he died until I signed onto aol. I've been at work all day and then went shopping with my cousin. What's done is done, and it is true that half of the country will be celebrating and the other half mourning.
Sadly the current government has no real power, they're unorganized and corrupt (like ever other Arab government) so they're not going to be able to do much if the shit hits the fan over this. Yes Saddam was a bad guy for Shiites but he was a good guy for Sunnis which bothers me big time. I'm Sunni and I have friends who are Shiites (both Iraqi and Persian) and it's not like we're two different religions ... it's like one minor detail that's different! Nowhere else in the Arab world do you find Sunnis killing Shiites or vice versa. Even in Jordan ... where many Iraqis fled to ... there isn't fighting amongst the two different religious secs.
Yea he's a bad guy, but his death is gonna cause a lot of trouble.
| Originally Posted by CrystalStars
Eid begins Saturday for Sunnis and Sunday for Shiites and lasts for four days. Hussein is a Sunni Muslim. |
Hmm that's weird, CNN said this? All the Shiites I know are celebrating tomorrow because Eid ul-Adha marks the ending of the Hajj and according to my uncle who is there right now they finished today. Oh well, us Arabs are weird like that and EVERY country always starts on different days and nobody ever agrees ... grr haha.
BUT anyway I had no idea he died until I signed onto aol. I've been at work all day and then went shopping with my cousin. What's done is done, and it is true that half of the country will be celebrating and the other half mourning.
Sadly the current government has no real power, they're unorganized and corrupt (like ever other Arab government) so they're not going to be able to do much if the shit hits the fan over this. Yes Saddam was a bad guy for Shiites but he was a good guy for Sunnis which bothers me big time. I'm Sunni and I have friends who are Shiites (both Iraqi and Persian) and it's not like we're two different religions ... it's like one minor detail that's different! Nowhere else in the Arab world do you find Sunnis killing Shiites or vice versa. Even in Jordan ... where many Iraqis fled to ... there isn't fighting amongst the two different religious secs.
Yea he's a bad guy, but his death is gonna cause a lot of trouble.
beyondhope1024
Well-known member
I have nothing wrong with the whole death penalty thing but I don't know, I feel real iffy about his execution
...only because I know that there is going to be a ton of riots/violence because of it.
I also honestly felt that he could get away with pleading insanity in court, with the way he acted during the trial. It really got to a point where I was like, "Wow, is this guy seriously sane? Because I think he's literally crazy." I don't know, that's just my point of view. I think he would've been better off getting screwed over and rotting in a jail cell. They gave him the easy way out.
I also honestly felt that he could get away with pleading insanity in court, with the way he acted during the trial. It really got to a point where I was like, "Wow, is this guy seriously sane? Because I think he's literally crazy." I don't know, that's just my point of view. I think he would've been better off getting screwed over and rotting in a jail cell. They gave him the easy way out.
CrystalStars
Well-known member
Quote:
Yeah when I read it, I thought it was odd as well. My friend told me they finished today as well. But CNN.com said that. So im not exactly sure.
| Originally Posted by amoona
Hmm that's weird, CNN said this? All the Shiites I know are celebrating tomorrow because Eid ul-Adha marks the ending of the Hajj and according to my uncle who is there right now they finished today. Oh well, us Arabs are weird like that and EVERY country always starts on different days and nobody ever agrees ... grr haha. |
Yeah when I read it, I thought it was odd as well. My friend told me they finished today as well. But CNN.com said that. So im not exactly sure.
geeko
Well-known member
Actually call me nuts or what...I feel that although saddam is a tyrant....Iraq will not be in such a chaotic state now if he was still ruling the country.
I hope i don't offend anyone here by saying this, but i feel that US interference in the internal politics of Iraq is just making things worse. I don't think the rioting is going to stop at any time in the near future though. The leader who is going to take over Iraq next has to have an iron hand grip on the country in order to stabilize it. I'm sorry to say, but in a chaotic state, democracy doesn't work. You need to have autocracy to stabilize the country first and only later when the country develops can the people talk about democracy.
Anyway if u ask me who the lesser of 2 evils (between osama bin laden and sadaam hussein), i would say it has to be sadaam. N i never did believe he had any nuclear weapons anyway contrary to what Bush has said. He never had any intention to spread islamic militarism/fundamentalism to other countries anyway...(he was greedy for power n $$$) as compared to Bin Laden. Osama has a potentially more dangerous agenda to spread islamic militarism to other parts of the world,sowing discord amongst muslims and non muslims and encouraging insurgencies in other countries. Hence i view him as a greater threat to the world than Saddam.
Saddam eliminated people who threatened his position in his country, but Osama's Al qaeda and his followers are comparatively worse. He/They seek to eliminate the non-muslim nations in the world. And that is very disturbing. Just look at all the past killings and beheadings in Iraq.....And no thanks to him, 911 has sowed discord amongst muslims and non-muslims. And this what Al Qeada wants. To alienate muslims from non-muslims so that they will support Al Qeada's insurgency against the west and other nations that support the US.
No doubt saddam hate the US, but he did not have the ability to attack the US openly. And i do not believe he support Al Qaeda fully either because Osama is a shiite and Saddam is a sunni. He would still view Osama as a threat to his own leadership in Iraq. Ultimately Saddam wanted to consolidate his own power...the reason why he hated US so much is simply one reason - The US prevented him from taking over Kuwait the oil rich nation in the earlier 1990s. As for human rights violations, he did it out of his greed for power. I don't think he can peacefully collaborate with Osama to attack the US given that these 2 people are equally as power hungry as each other. There are bound to have conflicts.
There are always 2 sides to a story, i used to think that everything the US did was right, but after taking history, I have learnt to see the world from another view point. I used to think that Saddam was a very evil guy because the US said he was evil. I still think he is a sadistic guy, but i pity him more now rather than hate him. And yeah...history has taught me not to be more neutral towards analyzing such issues.
Oh yeah....I prefer the Clinton administration to the Bush administration. Look at how chaotic the world is now under the Bush administration...
Hope i don't offend anyone here by my views. Sorry for this super long post.
I hope i don't offend anyone here by saying this, but i feel that US interference in the internal politics of Iraq is just making things worse. I don't think the rioting is going to stop at any time in the near future though. The leader who is going to take over Iraq next has to have an iron hand grip on the country in order to stabilize it. I'm sorry to say, but in a chaotic state, democracy doesn't work. You need to have autocracy to stabilize the country first and only later when the country develops can the people talk about democracy.
Anyway if u ask me who the lesser of 2 evils (between osama bin laden and sadaam hussein), i would say it has to be sadaam. N i never did believe he had any nuclear weapons anyway contrary to what Bush has said. He never had any intention to spread islamic militarism/fundamentalism to other countries anyway...(he was greedy for power n $$$) as compared to Bin Laden. Osama has a potentially more dangerous agenda to spread islamic militarism to other parts of the world,sowing discord amongst muslims and non muslims and encouraging insurgencies in other countries. Hence i view him as a greater threat to the world than Saddam.
Saddam eliminated people who threatened his position in his country, but Osama's Al qaeda and his followers are comparatively worse. He/They seek to eliminate the non-muslim nations in the world. And that is very disturbing. Just look at all the past killings and beheadings in Iraq.....And no thanks to him, 911 has sowed discord amongst muslims and non-muslims. And this what Al Qeada wants. To alienate muslims from non-muslims so that they will support Al Qeada's insurgency against the west and other nations that support the US.
No doubt saddam hate the US, but he did not have the ability to attack the US openly. And i do not believe he support Al Qaeda fully either because Osama is a shiite and Saddam is a sunni. He would still view Osama as a threat to his own leadership in Iraq. Ultimately Saddam wanted to consolidate his own power...the reason why he hated US so much is simply one reason - The US prevented him from taking over Kuwait the oil rich nation in the earlier 1990s. As for human rights violations, he did it out of his greed for power. I don't think he can peacefully collaborate with Osama to attack the US given that these 2 people are equally as power hungry as each other. There are bound to have conflicts.
There are always 2 sides to a story, i used to think that everything the US did was right, but after taking history, I have learnt to see the world from another view point. I used to think that Saddam was a very evil guy because the US said he was evil. I still think he is a sadistic guy, but i pity him more now rather than hate him. And yeah...history has taught me not to be more neutral towards analyzing such issues.
Oh yeah....I prefer the Clinton administration to the Bush administration. Look at how chaotic the world is now under the Bush administration...
Hope i don't offend anyone here by my views. Sorry for this super long post.
Chic 2k6
Well-known member
im glad, he's a bastard i mean killing loads of little children for waving to the non iraqui troops? fuckin bastard.
article here:
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/30122006/32...nged-dawn.html
article here:
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/30122006/32...nged-dawn.html
shootergirlnc
Well-known member
I'm kinda iffy on this too. Since my husband is a Marine, and has been there twice, and is scheduled to go back in 2007, I'm just worried things will really get out of hand, and the next time he might not come home. I dunno if this stuff over there will ever end.
lemurian
Well-known member
I'm going to contribute my two cents in a very casual tongue, because I am far from being an expert on the topic, but I do want to make a few valid points
Saddam was a bad dude, I don't think there's any question. I mean, even among Sunnis I think there must be those who are relieved to be rid of him. My understanding is that he was basically secular in his beliefs, his beliefs being mainly that he was THE MAN. As for how his death will be looked upon in a historical context, I don't think it will be any real milestone. Iraq, and Baghdad in particular, is just a wreck. There is no light at the end of the tunnel. The people of Baghdad are worse off now than they were before Iraq was invaded. Other populations of Iraq, like the Kurds in the North, are much better off, but for how long? Until the Americans leave?
There is no "fixing" Iraq, is it a picture of chaos, and it was drawn that way by the British and French during WW1. The West really IS the root cause of all that is wrong in the Middle East! European "conquerors" scribbled some lines on a map and thus became many of the countries in the Middle East of today (save for Iran, of course). These lines in no way outlined populations that could live in peace. It is no coincidence that dictators are the norm in these countries, because there is no other way to effectively rule.
As for the role of Islamic "fundamentalists" in this mess, it is interesting to note that Islam is the youngest of the major world religions, around 1300 years old. Both Judaism and Christianity have weathered some.. erm, interesting snags during the same time in their life cycles. As for Christianity, the Inquisition and Crusades come to mind..
Maybe these are just the rough tween years!
Anyway, I don't see the situation in Iraq improving any time soon, and certainly not because Saddam is dead. On the contrary, if he were still alive and ruling things might be much better for some :/
Saddam was a bad dude, I don't think there's any question. I mean, even among Sunnis I think there must be those who are relieved to be rid of him. My understanding is that he was basically secular in his beliefs, his beliefs being mainly that he was THE MAN. As for how his death will be looked upon in a historical context, I don't think it will be any real milestone. Iraq, and Baghdad in particular, is just a wreck. There is no light at the end of the tunnel. The people of Baghdad are worse off now than they were before Iraq was invaded. Other populations of Iraq, like the Kurds in the North, are much better off, but for how long? Until the Americans leave?
There is no "fixing" Iraq, is it a picture of chaos, and it was drawn that way by the British and French during WW1. The West really IS the root cause of all that is wrong in the Middle East! European "conquerors" scribbled some lines on a map and thus became many of the countries in the Middle East of today (save for Iran, of course). These lines in no way outlined populations that could live in peace. It is no coincidence that dictators are the norm in these countries, because there is no other way to effectively rule.
As for the role of Islamic "fundamentalists" in this mess, it is interesting to note that Islam is the youngest of the major world religions, around 1300 years old. Both Judaism and Christianity have weathered some.. erm, interesting snags during the same time in their life cycles. As for Christianity, the Inquisition and Crusades come to mind..
Anyway, I don't see the situation in Iraq improving any time soon, and certainly not because Saddam is dead. On the contrary, if he were still alive and ruling things might be much better for some :/
Hawkeye
Well-known member
Well regardless one day has gone by and nothing of grave signfigance happened over there in regards to fighting yet. Perhaps it is only the calm before the storm? Or maybe there are many Iraqi's thrilled to death that a day they never thought would come had finally come to pass.
I don't think I realized the magnitude of it until today. I hear a lot of Iraqi's are thrilled there's a lot of excitment here in ATL among the population shown on the news.
Facsinating. This is a moment of history that will be forever burned in my mind.
Now I know it's hard to talk about this guy without dragging politics in it but we have a lot of highly opinionated people regarding this and as much as I love a good debate I will ask that if we do bring politics in to keep it Civil. Let's not have a bunch name calling are arguing OK? That's all I ask.
I don't think I realized the magnitude of it until today. I hear a lot of Iraqi's are thrilled there's a lot of excitment here in ATL among the population shown on the news.
Facsinating. This is a moment of history that will be forever burned in my mind.
Now I know it's hard to talk about this guy without dragging politics in it but we have a lot of highly opinionated people regarding this and as much as I love a good debate I will ask that if we do bring politics in to keep it Civil. Let's not have a bunch name calling are arguing OK? That's all I ask.
lemurian
Well-known member
I thought the reason they were rushing to hang him was so that it could be done on a Sunni holiday, when everyone would be inside..? I dunno, I doubt that there will be much of a bru-ha-ha over this -- I think most Iraqis have moved on. Saddam is not the reason for sectarian violence and his death will not encourage it any more than it will halt it.
Also apologies if it seemed like I was making references to current political issues above -- I didn't mean to imply anything about President Bush, just making observations of the general situation in Iraq.
Also apologies if it seemed like I was making references to current political issues above -- I didn't mean to imply anything about President Bush, just making observations of the general situation in Iraq.
Shimmer
Well-known member
Regardless of anything else, the murders and atrocities he was responsible for warranted the punishment handed out.
Living in prison for the rest of his life would have been quite nice compared to what he did to others during their imprisonments, etc.
And, I don't say that based on his religion, I don't care if he's Muslim, Scientologist, Christian, Catholic, Mormon, or eggplant worshipping. I view him the same as I view a man who rapes a six year old girl and throws her in the creek: deserving of death.
Living in prison for the rest of his life would have been quite nice compared to what he did to others during their imprisonments, etc.
And, I don't say that based on his religion, I don't care if he's Muslim, Scientologist, Christian, Catholic, Mormon, or eggplant worshipping. I view him the same as I view a man who rapes a six year old girl and throws her in the creek: deserving of death.
