Wow, this is RIDICULOUS. (Take II)

[MAC_Pixie04]

I came across the video of the UCLA Campus Police using a ridiculous amount of force and abuse of power by tasering a student 5 times within a less than 7 minute span because he wouldn't initially leave the library. He didn't have an ID, he wasn't breaking a law, he didn't resist physically, and they continued to taser him and threatened to taser onlookers that interfered.

And people are arguing that this is policy? How can you justify that? It's not policy to taser the shit out of someone for not having proper identification.

Here's the video...

And i forewarn you, there isn't much to look at, but the audio is the most disturbing i've heard in a while.

 

[Lady_MAC]

I had NO idea the victim would be a racial minority... *cough*

No Justice, No Peace, No Fascist Police. No Justice, No Peace, No Racist Police.

 

[Hawkeye]

OK many things in this.

Tasering to that extent was a BAD thing. That should've never happened.I don't agree with it. Taser should only be used if the guy is being physically violent etc.

HOWEVER
1) The students made it a LOT worse by trying to interfer and by saying " we want your information" etc. They should've never done that period because it not only fueled the police but it also fueled the guy being tasered.
2) The students should've called 911 or something and at least gotton a description of the police (the video was great) but the interference it just made the situation a LOT worse.
3) The first thing we see in this video is the guy screaming before the police even talk-he yells" DON'T TOUCH ME" over and over. That causes concern to me because this could've been a very peaceful removal if he hadn't started screaming that in the first place. That makes me think he was being taken because of a previous act or he had a known history with the police. But that right there makes me think that something happened and I don't think he was tasered at that moment. I think they just walked in.
3) Why did he not leave when first asked? Usually with policy you are asked by the librarian first (thats how it is at my college at least) and if you refuse then the police escort you off. Why did he not just leave?
4) He started arguing first. He had no ID. The UCLA campus police are there to protect that institution. He didn't have an ID and I'm guessing he had already been asked many times to leave before by the librarian etc. I even picked up a smart alecky tone in his voice - it's not a "listen, I'm doing anything bad etc" its more of a "im not doing anything" tone it seemed very argumentative.
5) The police ask him to stand up. He didn't stand up. Why?
6) We hear him tasered. I don't understand why they tasered him unless it was the arguing and refusing to stand up and walk away.
7) The next thing we hear is obscenties (and rightly so I would be screaming them myself) but then you hear things that make me wonder what exactly he really was doing there by going on some huge tirade about the patriot act etc and then still refusing to stand up.
8) Then we see the students getting in the way which was ridiculous-it just made everything worse.
9) and we hear more tasering because the guy wouldn't stand up.
10) and on the way out-we can't really see it but he gets tasered again, I wonder if its because he is struggling at this point or yelling random obscenties or something along those lines.

Honestly watching this video-I think he was causing a disturbance in the first place, or he was on drugs, OR he was indeed doing something illegal prior and that was the way they caught him.

And I know you all think I'm being big and bad and horrible but most rational people they would be asked to leave in the first place and they would've left or if not they would've seen the police and let them come over and it would've been done and over with very peacefully and very calmly.

I really don't think there was just no reason for them to come in like that. There has to be a reason and just listening to him at first makes me suspect that they weren't just coming in for an ID and he knew it.

As for the tasering-that was excessive. They shouldn't have even used it but I'm not sure if they could use force to pull a guy out of a chair either. I'm not well versed in California law.

**Putting it in Red so everyone can see that I have said the same thing throughout the posts

 

[Indigowaters]

That is ridiculous! I have seen law enforcement go through being tasered (because they have to experience it in order to carry one) and they sometimes can't handle it. The guy couldn't get up in time because HELLO! he was tasered and his muscles couldn't respond! That is an example of an abuse of power and they should all be tased the same amount of times without any help in getting up. That's inhumane.

To the comment above, there is no reason at all though that they should have used that amount of force. Here, they tasered someone's mother who was trying to pick up her child from the movies just because she was parked in front of the theatre and didn't move fast enough (everyone parks in front of the theatre). It's just ridiculous how they use those things. I'm just glad it's that and not a gun, but I won't get into that because we'll be posting for days.

 

[mzcelaneous]

Maybe there's more to the story prior to it all being caught on tape. We would never know unless we were actually there :shrug:

That is unjustifiable IMO. Tasering him numerous times was out of hand. Perhaps his muscles were severely weakened that really couldn't get up?

I don't know. I just agree that it is indeed ridiculous!

 

[MAC_Pixie04]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbeabitch HOWEVER 1) The students made it a LOT worse by trying to interfer and by saying " we want your information" etc. They should've never done that period because it not only fueled the police but it also fueled the guy being tasered.

That still doesn't give them the right to continue to do it, and he threatened to taser them too, which basically just makes that officer look taser happy.
Quote:

Originally Posted by youbeabitch 2) The students should've called 911 or something and at least gotton a description of the police (the video was great) but the interference it just made the situation a LOT worse.

If they had called 911 from oncampus, they would have been connected to UCPD, the same people responsible for the incident.
Quote:

Originally Posted by youbeabitch 3) The first thing we see in this video is the guy screaming before the police even talk-he yells" DON'T TOUCH ME" over and over. That causes concern to me because this could've been a very peaceful removal if he hadn't started screaming that in the first place. That makes me think he was being taken because of a previous act or he had a known history with the police. But that right there makes me think that something happened and I don't think he was tasered at that moment. I think they just walked in.

The video wasn't taken at the exact moment the incident began. The student that filmed it started recording when it got more heated. According to the paper, he was looking for his ID, didn't have it, and asked if he could just finish his paper or save it so that it wouldn't be lost. They told him he needed to immediately get up and leave (I don't think being in the library sans ID is that serious of an offense.). He didn't immediately get up, he tried to save his paper, and the police got more hostile. They grabbed him, he got angry and thats when the video started rolling. He was also handcuffed even though he was already leaving. He said he would leave if they just let him save his paper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbeabitch 5) The police ask him to stand up. He didn't stand up. Why?

After being tasered, your muscles can be inhibited for as little as a few seconds and as much as 5 or more minutes. It's possible that he couldn't stand up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbeabitch 7) The next thing we hear is obscenties (and rightly so I would be screaming them myself) but then you hear things that make me wonder what exactly he really was doing there by going on some huge tirade about the patriot act etc and then still refusing to stand up.

Ironically enough, the screen savers in the student computer have a snippet of the Patriot Act, to justify why the librarian and other technicians are able to watch what they're doing on the computer and stop them if it's not something they should be doing, i.e., Myspace, Downloading, trying to access adult material. I do agree that he had enough lung capacity to yell out I CANT STAND UP I'VE JUST BEEN TASERED instead of screaming about the Patriot Act.

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbeabitch 8) Then we see the students getting in the way which was ridiculous-it just made everything worse.

It's a vast improvement from the bystander effect we're used to seeing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbeabitch Honestly watching this video-I think he was causing a disturbance in the first place, or he was on drugs, OR he was indeed doing something illegal prior and that was the way they caught him. And I know you all think I'm being big and bad and horrible but most rational people they would be asked to leave in the first place and they would've left or if not they would've seen the police and let them come over and it would've been done and over with very peacefully and very calmly. I really don't think there was just no reason for them to come in like that. There has to be a reason and just listening to him at first makes me suspect that they weren't just coming in for an ID and he knew it. As for the tasering-that was excessive. They shouldn't have even used it but I'm not sure if they could use force to pull a guy out of a chair either. I'm not well versed in California law.

Tasering is supposed to be used on a suspect who is violently and aggressively resistant. This person was verbally resistant, sure. So yell at him. There was no need to taser him. He was handcuffed, he wasn't bucking or kicking until he was tasered, and that was a physical reflex. And people are arguing that it's justifiable because he wouldn't stand up, but there's a good chance that he couldn't stand up. I do agree that if that were the case, he should have yelled that instead of going on about the patriot act and the obvious abuse of power. But he was tasered 5 times in less than 7 minutes, that's an average of once every minute and 12 seconds or something like that. Which is a lot on the body. It's 20-30,000 volts of electric shock being sent to the body for 2-4 seconds.
As for why they showed up, the paper didn't mention anything about a criminal record, or anything illegal happening before they came for him. Apparently a library tech asked him for ID, he didn't have it, and he promised he'd leave after he finished his paper. So when he didn't, the library tech called the police, which is what they're supposed to do. I know it's a strict policy that without a valid ID, you can't stay in the library, especially between the hours of 11pm and 8am because school facilities have had issues with street kids loitering and non-students taking advantage of something they don't pay for, but that doesn't call for tasering someone 5 times in 7 minutes, that's ridiculous. I hope there's a damn good punishment for that.

 

[Indigowaters]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAC_Pixie04 I hope there's a damn good punishment for that.

Me too.

 

[Hawkeye]

Thanks Mac Attack! I seriously thought I was the only person who thought a lot of this seemed suspicious.

And I know I'm going to come accross as a horrible person on this but I don't necessarily think this is a race issue either. From my computer screan the guy looked white.

 

[Indigowaters]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbeabitch Thanks Mac Attack! I seriously thought I was the only person who thought a lot of this seemed suspicious. And I know I'm going to come accross as a horrible person on this but I don't necessarily think this is a race issue either. From my computer screan the guy looked white.

I believe they said he was Iranian. I think.

 

[Bernadette]

That's so fucking ridiculous it makes my blood boil. People get on a power trip and think it's okay for them to do whatever they want. This is a perfect example of why I hate the fuzz. God those officers should lose their jobs, grrrr. I had to stop watching it because it was upsetting me so much. He can't stand up because you keep tasing himm you idiots!!!

 

[Beauty Mark]

This makes me so glad that my campus didn't have that. I hope the UCLA campus police don't have guns.

I think it was overreaction on all sides, but the UCLA police have more of a duty to remain rational and not taser someone that many times.

 

[amoona]

Okay so youbeabitch I know some of your questions were already answered but let me try to answer some of your other question. I maybe repeating some stuff that was said earlier but I'm just trying to give the whole story.

All this information is from reading the interviews from students who were there as well as actually speaking to students who were there. I'm involved in a very active and politicial Palestinian student organization and we deal with different schools in California. We have contacts at UCLA with the Arab students, as well as the Iranian and other Middle Eastern students.

The student was an Iranian student who was in the library without his student ID. He was asked to leave when he could no provide his student ID. He was given a few minutes to leave. The cops came back and immediately began to attack the student. From what I hear from people who were there, the student was saving his work which is why he did not immediately leave. The police used physical force from the get-go. They then began to taser the student. UCLA's newspaper wrote an article about this and mentioned how tasering someone can temporarily paralize you. That's the purpose of a taser gun. That is why after one shot it becomes very hard to get up, in addition to the four other times he was tasered it becomes nearly impossible. Trust me, I've seen HUGE guys get tasered at protests and they don't come up that quick. On top of that, this student had a medical condition which you can hear him tell the police on more then once.

Also the reason why race was brought up in this case is because the student was a Muslim Iranian student and from what I understand from students who attend UCLA there have been some issues in the past with politicially active Middle Eastern organizations with the cops on campus. This is something I believe because I have experience in this, I don't even attend the school where I am involved in their student organziation, but the President of the school knows me by first name! We're a thorn in their side because we're active, we're Middle Eastern (which makes us like public enemy #1 when it has to do with politics) and there's a lot of us.

As for the students getting involved and making it worse ... I disagree. I think it is a human beings responsibility to stand up for their fellow human! Especially when they see him getting tasered for no reason. All the people who were there that night spoke out against what happened because they saw the WHOLE thing. They know EXACTLY what happened.

Yes it was a race issue, yes it was excessive, and yes those cops should be fired and the university should be held accountable.

 

[MxAxC-_ATTACK]

so... He was asked to leave.. and a few moments later.. the cops came back, he wasn't gone so they just tasered him? I find that very hard to believe.

 

[Hawkeye]

Thank you for clarifying that amoona. Granted with this information (and someone who is active in an organization that could see this)-I can see how there would definately be some racial issues there.

I'm not saying nobody should speak out against it. I think they should have. I think the smartest one of the group was the person running the camera getting all of this.

The fact that the people started swarming around (and we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this) fueled the situation.

Yes it is a human being job to help but at the same time-you have to look at - Is this going to cause more problems? I almost wonder if the tasering was almost a " Hey look people are around protesting what we're doing let us show them what happens"?

And the first time, and again, I'm a college student-but I also know it does not take a few minutes to save something-it maybe takes a minute. (Granted we are assuming it's maybe 5 minutes). They gave him time to save and to leave (assuming it wasn't like 2 minutes or 1 minute etc).

My biggest question is-During that period of time-when there was NO tasering-and whatever-we are assuming he has plenty of time to save and stand up showing he was leaving. Why did he not do it? Why when they were returning did he start screaming Don't you touch me?

I guess (and I KNOW a lot of you think I'm being a horrible person just by questioning all of this) it just makes no sense to me especially that reaction of him screaming dont you touch me before any tasering began and it looks like the moment he saw them.

Until we know 1) why it took so long to save (was he really that unfamiliar with the computer?) 2) His reaction of screaming don't you touch me BEFORE anything officially started 3) why during that time he didn't just save and make some indication that he was leaving 4) how long exactly did the police give him--I stand by my idea that this ENTIRE situation could have been avoided.

NOW playing devils advocate on myself did the police hold him down so he couldn't stand up when they got to him? Did they intimidate him in some way that really scared him? Or did he just see them and started freaking out? Is there a history of physical abuse when police are escorting people off the premisis?

it was excessive, and yes those cops should be fired and the university should be held accountable.

I also think-and I'm not sure if they are involved but if they are not-the ACLU probably needs to get really involved as well as other various muslim organizations and really start this rolling. With enough media coverage and enough public outrage then something can get done about this!

 

[Indigowaters]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MxAxC-_ATTACK so... He was asked to leave.. and a few moments later.. the cops came back, he wasn't gone so they just tasered him? I find that very hard to believe.

So cops can do no wrong?

How about the incident I mentioned about them tasing a mother here who was trying to pick up her child from the movies? Some cops go into training with the mentality of "I'm gonna catch some bad guys" even when there are no bad guys to be found. There is a such thing as good cop, bad cop.

 

[kimmy]

this man wasn't following the instructions the police gave him. i don't understand, everyone wants the police to do their job, and then when they do, everyone gets pissed off because they use "excessive force"?

most of the time, officers don't just go and shoot/taser/arrest/etc. people unless they have a reason to.

and as far as it being a race issue, it's only a race issue because people make it that way. again, i have never met a cop who would look at a white guy robbing a liqour store and say "whatever" but see a middle eastern student at a library and taser him JUST because he was of a different race.

 

[Janice]

Please maintain civility with one another.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janice When topics become controversial, or if an argument becomes heated lets try to remember that it takes courage to put your views and opinion on the line for critique and discussion. If you dont agree with someone please give them the chance to express their views, and respect personal boundaries if not their position on the issue.

link

 

[Hawkeye]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indigowaters So cops can do no wrong? How about the incident I mentioned about them tasing a mother here who was trying to pick up her child from the movies? Some cops go into training with the mentality of "I'm gonna catch some bad guys" even when there are no bad guys to be found. There is a such thing as good cop, bad cop.

repeat LOL
the take II on the line makes me laugh. Sorry im a nerd.

OK back to the matter at hand-

Indigo-no one has said cops can do no wrong. I'm not sure where you are getting that. What we are saying is there are a lot of unanswered questions and a lot of things aren't necessarily adding up.

 

[Indigowaters]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbeabitch repeat LOL the take II on the line makes me laugh. Sorry im a nerd. OK back to the matter at hand- Indigo-no one has said cops can do no wrong. I'm not sure where you are getting that. What we are saying is there are a lot of unanswered questions and a lot of things aren't necessarily adding up.

I didn't say anyone said that. I asked the question because people are saying they can't believe a cop would just taser someone without reason and it has happened before.

(Note to everyone: When quoting me, please read my message before saying I said that someone said something, thanks.

)

 

[MAC_Pixie04]

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE ANTHEM this man wasn't following the instructions the police gave him. i don't understand, everyone wants the police to do their job, and then when they do, everyone gets pissed off because they use "excessive force"? most of the time, officers don't just go and shoot/taser/arrest/etc. people unless they have a reason to. and as far as it being a race issue, it's only a race issue because people make it that way. again, i have never met a cop who would look at a white guy robbing a liqour store and say "whatever" but see a middle eastern student at a library and taser him JUST because he was of a different race.

It's not about them not doing their job; but there's a line and they definitely crossed it. You don't taser someone for yelling at you in a library. He wasn't being physically aggressive, he was being verbally resistant, sure. There was no reason to taser him, so yes, people were upset at the use of excessive, and might i add, unnecessary force. Okay, so he should have left when they asked him the first time, okay so he was in the wrong for that. But to taser someone 5 times in 7 minutes for saving his work on the computer and not getting up IMMEDIATELY just blows my mind. There's no explanation for that, there's no reason for it. And let's not just call it "excessive force." Considering he yelled that he had a medical condition, and the amount of tasering that took place in such a short amount of time, it's quite possible they could have severely injured or killed him. People don't realize how dangerous that weapon can be. It's been known to have killed people in the past. It's electric shock energy being physically asserted to the body against its will. it's dangerous.