Wow, this is RIDICULOUS. (Take II)

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoona grr America is so violent I wanna move to the UK! I hear London is gorgeous ... but it's cold and snows ... I don't do cold very well haha.

America is Violent? You do read the news right? =P I think there are plenty of places that would LOVE to be as violent as the United States.

I hear Iraq is beautiful in the spring time...

 

[kimmy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ♥MiCHiE♥ Well, I've always thought it takes a special person to do a job and do it well and a lot of recruits in many larger cities just cannot cut the mustard.

this is very true. but i will have to say that the police department not always getting the cream of the crop is partly our fault as a society. everyone blames the cops everytime they do ANYTHING, and any pressure from the public will result in the loss of the officer's job.

i don't know if any of you remember/heard of this, but a few years ago just about a block from my house RPD shot and killed a girl named Taisha Miller. she had semi-automatic weapons everywhere in her car, was hopped up on drusg and when the cops woke her up, she reached for a gun so the cops opened fire. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton showed up at City Hall and the next day, all the officers involved were put on administrative leave. thankfully, they were all given their jobs back when RPD pulled their heads out of their asses. but i digress..

there are plenty of people who would make amazing police officers, but public prosecution of them for doing their job is a HUGE deterrent.

 

[amoona]

The only reason the cops were surrounded by all those students was because they were TASERED A STUDENT IN THE LIBRARY! It's hardly a "you or me" situation haha. Don't blow it into something that it's not. This student posed no threat to anyone, everyone there knew that which is why they came out in support of him. I know a lot of cops and all the ones I've talked to recently have said how disgusted they are in this and how those cops acted like rookies with their heads up their asses.

A trained professional knows when they're being threatened and I don't know one cop who has said that this incident was a threatening one for the cops. Those cops were just on a power trip.

 

[amoona]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae America is Violent? You do read the news right? =P I think there are plenty of places that would LOVE to be as violent as the United States. I hear Iraq is beautiful in the spring time...

Before the US invaded Iraq it was actually GORGEOUS in the spring. It still is, just full of American soldiers. I could get into the reasons why Iraq has become a violent country since the US invaded bu tthat's not what this thread is about. Yes America is violent, the entire world knows this and any American journalist will tell you that too. Watch a Canadian news broadcast v. an American news broadcast, this country feeds off of drama and violence. There have been studies on it!

Nobody needs your sarcasm, especially when it was a little comment that wasn't on topic that got you pissy. I also wasn't directing the comment at you.

 

[kimmy]

were you there? i don't think so. and maybe those cops were rookies. also, even before more students came out to support this kid, the cops were STILL outnumbered.

 

[amoona]

No I wasn't there were you? Do you know anyone that was there?! I do, read my previous posts.

 

[kimmy]

i wasn't there, then again i never said that the boy was or wasn't posing a threat. kind of audacious of you to say what's threatening to someone else when you weren't there, IMO. no offense, i'm just saying that you have to admit there is a slight chance that the police officers involved felt that the man posed a threat and therefore felt the need to use the force they used.

and i have read your posts, those students you have talked to might not have seen the man as a threat while the cops on the other hand may have seen him that way. when calls are dispatched to the police, they are not always 100% accurate. there is a possibility that the call came in as a may or may not be armed.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoona Before the US invaded Iraq it was actually GORGEOUS in the spring. It still is, just full of American soldiers. I could get into the reasons why Iraq has become a violent country since the US invaded bu tthat's not what this thread is about. Yes America is violent, the entire world knows this and any American journalist will tell you that too. Watch a Canadian news broadcast v. an American news broadcast, this country feeds off of drama and violence. There have been studies on it! Nobody needs your sarcasm, especially when it was a little comment that wasn't on topic that got you pissy. I also wasn't directing the comment at you.

 

[Shimmer]

Please keep the thread civil.
Thanks.

 

[amoona]

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE ANTHEM i wasn't there, then again i never said that the boy was or wasn't posing a threat. kind of audacious of you to say what's threatening to someone else when you weren't there, IMO. no offense, i'm just saying that you have to admit there is a slight chance that the police officers involved felt that the man posed a threat and therefore felt the need to use the force they used. and i have read your posts, those students you have talked to might not have seen the man as a threat while the cops on the other hand may have seen him that way. when calls are dispatched to the police, they are not always 100% accurate. there is a possibility that the call came in as a may or may not be armed.

I never wrote that you said he posed a threat, please re-read my post.

Quote:

It's hardly a "you or me" situation haha. Don't blow it into something that it's not. This student posed no threat to anyone, everyone there knew that which is why they came out in support of him.

That's what I said about him being a threat. I was refering to your comment about a cops mentality being a "you or me" deal. If someone is not threatened then they shouldn't have that type of mentality.

And now you're saying the officers may have felt he posed a threat. Well idk how they could have honestly felt that ... sorry but I know this incident, I've been involved, I've spoken to people who were there, I've spoken to people who know this kid, I've read the newspaper articles and interviews of other people who were there. The kid did nothing, the only threat they could have felt was that he was an Iranian student. That's where the racial part comes into it. He was the only student in the library asked for his ID.

 

[kimmy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoona And now you're saying the officers may have felt he posed a threat. Well idk how they could have honestly felt that ... sorry but I know this incident, I've been involved, I've spoken to people who were there, I've spoken to people who know this kid, I've read the newspaper articles and interviews of other people who were there. The kid did nothing, the only threat they could have felt was that he was an Iranian student. That's where the racial part comes into it. He was the only student in the library asked for his ID.

please re-read MY post. when the dispatcher sent the call out to units/stations, they may have said that this man was or could have been armed. in which case, the cops will in fact go in with a "you or me" mentality.

 

[Hawkeye]

I still say that there is reasonable doubt. I still think that there is a lot more to this story than what is being said.

And I don't care if the guy was Iranian, if he was white, if he was black, hell I don't care if the guy was a freakin Martian if someone does not get up when you are first asked just because you want to save a paper-that's a pretty good indication that you are almost asking for a scene to be caused.

I don't care who was there and who wasn't. Everyone knows that people can look at the exact same thing and not see the whole thing. And I also know that the students who were there were causing a lot of rucus making the situation a lot worse-so even if they were rookies-they just continued to exacerbate the problem even more.

The worst thing is that someone said: UH where you there? Honestly, that's pretty lame if you yourself weren't there to see it with your own eyes. I mean to believe one thing without actually being there is...it just baffles me. That's kind of like me telling a person dinosaurs still roam the earth and they actually believe it without actually doing something to find out for themselves.

What we have to realize is that the Public (and that means anyone who wasn't there) is not hearing the whole thing objectively. We are all hearing a "he said, she said" scenerio. I don't care if the person who is telling you whatever you would trust your life to, but none of us were there to look at this objectively.

 

[amoona]

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE ANTHEM please re-read MY post. when the dispatcher sent the call out to units/stations, they may have said that this man was or could have been armed. in which case, the cops will in fact go in with a "you or me" mentality.

lol dispatchers?! Sweetie wtf r u talking about?! All the librarian did was call on over to the UCPD office on campus and they came over.

EDIT: This isn't a public library where someone is calling a police station. They're calling on campus police. And it's a cop's responsibility to know wtf is going on before they taser someone.

That's like saying "don't blame the cop who shot the kid with the toy gun" If I call the cops and say that some kid is outside with a gun and the cop just comes and attacks the kid thats ok?! Because the cop was warned that the person maybe armed?! Why do you think people get so pissed when kids get shot for playing with toy guns, or the man in NY who got shot for taking out his wallet when the cops thought it was a gun. Just because they may THINK something doesn't mean they should act on it until they know.

 

[amoona]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbeabitch And I don't care if the guy was Iranian, if he was white, if he was black, hell I don't care if the guy was a freakin Martian if someone does not get up when you are first asked just because you want to save a paper-that's a pretty good indication that you are almost asking for a scene to be caused.

1. He was the only person in the library asked for ID.
2. He was leaving when the cops attacked him.

Quote:

I don't care who was there and who wasn't. Everyone knows that people can look at the exact same thing and not see the whole thing. And I also know that the students who were there were causing a lot of rucus making the situation a lot worse-so even if they were rookies-they just continued to exacerbate the problem even more.

Yes everyone wont see the same thing but isn't it kinda weird that EVERYONE in the room saw the same thing?! It's not like it's some huge conspiracy where everyone met up and came up with the same account of what happened. And I disagree about the students making the situation worse. I'm sorry but what did you want them to do?! The guy was already being tasered when they started standing up for him. Were they supposed to stop and just watch?! NO WAY! That's a disgusting idea to me. I couldn't imagine just standing back and watching that.

Quote:

The worst thing is that someone said: UH where you there? Honestly, that's pretty lame if you yourself weren't there to see it with your own eyes. I mean to believe one thing without actually being there is...it just baffles me. That's kind of like me telling a person dinosaurs still roam the earth and they actually believe it without actually doing something to find out for themselves. What we have to realize is that the Public (and that means anyone who wasn't there) is not hearing the whole thing objectively. We are all hearing a "he said, she said" scenerio. I don't care if the person who is telling you whatever you would trust your life to, but none of us were there to look at this objectively.

I maybe "lame" but I've actually spoken to MULTIPLE people who were there. I'm not believing ONE thing, I'm believing multiple accounts of the same thing. And no it's not like you saying dinosaurs still roam around n me believing it. I did so something to find out for myself, I spoke to MULTIPLE PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE!!!! So should courts no longer bring in witnesses who were at the account scene of the crime? I mean why should the judge believe someone if he wasn't there?

Do you not believe any aspect of history?! You weren't there, so why should you believe what other people have told you? If you only want to believe what you see with your own two eyes then that's fine, but I'm not going to be blind to reality.

The UCPD is investigating this incident because they actually have PROOF that what happened was wrong and excessive. But proof and other people's accounts (even multiple people with the same account) isn't valid enough for you so idk what to tell you.

 

[Hawkeye]

No one called YOU lame.
You must remember that not everything revolves around you. This entire discussion does not revolve around you.
If I recall you were not the only person throwing the " Were you there" question out.

I'll be perfectly honest when I say I think you are getting yourself worked up over something you did not see and you did not witness first hand. I haven't seen it first hand. I only saw portions of it through youtube.

You are not even listening to what other people are saying.

If you were you would know that MAC Attack,The Anthem and I are saying the exact same thing as you are regarding the tasering that it was uncalled for and that those officers should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. It's excessive. We've said this since the beginning.

But because we have doubts that the entire story is not being told-we suddenly do not agree with you and have no idea how strong a taser is. How is that? It seems to me we're saying the exact same thing but we're just disagreeing on the fact of whether or not there is more to the story.

But just because some guy is Iranian is what is getting me here. He didn't have his ID. He had been approached once to leave. It's very easy to get up and leave and I know it doesn't take "a few minutes" to save something- before all this happened. This could happen to anyone-Iranian, White, Black, Asian-anybody.

My heart goes out to the guy-but there are so many things that could have not gone on that would've never let this happen. But because it did happen and other than the fact we will have to agree to disagree regarding the students - at least they are doing one thing right and getting the word out.

As for history-to be perfectly blunt-I think that question has little relevance to the question at hand. Yet you throw out the question again-" You weren't there- how do you know?" That's the question that started this.

 

[amoona]

Well I do care about this situation because it was a racist act, whether you believe it was or not. That's fine, your opinion. The facts in front of me say it was racist, the facts in front of the UCLA student body say it was racist. I don't turn a blind eye to things, if I feel like it is important for to care about, whether I'm there or not, I will do just that and care about it.

I know it's taken me a few minutes to save stuff, gather my things, and leave a library. It's not like you just click a button and everything is set for you to go. My daily routine and work is saving all my work on a disk, e-mailing it to myself just incase (I've needed that just incase before), gathering all my belongings, deleting all my history and cookies from any computer I've used, and then getting up and leaving. If you're quicker then that then that's you. This student didn't think he was going to have the cops on his ass in a matter of minutes, I'm sure he didn't feel the need to rush himself. If a librarian asks you to leave because you don't have ID are you going to pick up and rush yourself?

I understand that from the get-go you said the attack was excessive. However we have different opinions, you think that we're not getting the whole story ... I have the whole story. I'm sharing the whole story, if you do not want to believe that I have the whole story then that's fine.

The fact that he is Iranian is important, whether you feel like it is or not. He was the only student in the entire library asked for ID. It could happen to anyone, but it didn't. It only happened to the Iranian student in the library.

I also wasn't addressing the taser power to you so sorry if that was confusing. There have been other people in this thread who have questioned why he didn't just get up after being shocked with the gun.

 

[*Stargazer*]

London? Not violent? Someone is obviously NOT reading the news. Violence levels in the UK aren't low. London today is more violent thatn it was when I left it for the last time 6 years ago. Violence is everywhere, spearheaded by youths.

 

[kaliraksha]

to be fair, he may have only been the first to be asked for an ID in the line of more to come... and then the incident came about?

i dont think he was at all a threat to the police officers... i think they over reacted and wanted to prove their authority. i know lots of young people that do not respect police officers whatsoever... and it's a terrible cycle. i know lots of people my age (student age) that if a cop asked him/her to leave the library for not having an ID while he was writing a paper would simply not comply... or maybe move to a different table... because A) it's a ridiculous request in our eyes B) a large amount of young people i know have no respect for the police/authority C) they could not see the logic in needing to leave

Both parties were at fault, in my opinion. Yes, he should have left... but no, the police should not have pulled out a taser on him. Escorted him out, sure, why not? Those are rules, policies etc. I'm sure they were both aware of them. Is there anyway of knowing how long it actually took him to gather his stuff? Probably not... people's memories are heavily reliant on their feelings towards a situation.

But, another question- on a case by case situation, with the information I know now... yes, the cops overreacted and handled this terribly. But, let's think about all the things young people or just people in general have done/said/reacted to all the police officers out there... to make police officers feel threatened and disrespected by "kids"? What made them go on the power trip too? Where they not also being judged as being useless or ineffective or without any real power or stupid?

I'm just raising questions and probably playing devil's advocate... I'm glad to hear other people's opinion- as mine change with a good logical convincing argument.

 

[kimmy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoona lol dispatchers?! Sweetie wtf r u talking about?! All the librarian did was call on over to the UCPD office on campus and they came over. EDIT: This isn't a public library where someone is calling a police station. They're calling on campus police. And it's a cop's responsibility to know wtf is going on before they taser someone. That's like saying "don't blame the cop who shot the kid with the toy gun" If I call the cops and say that some kid is outside with a gun and the cop just comes and attacks the kid thats ok?! Because the cop was warned that the person maybe armed?! Why do you think people get so pissed when kids get shot for playing with toy guns, or the man in NY who got shot for taking out his wallet when the cops thought it was a gun. Just because they may THINK something doesn't mean they should act on it until they know.

by regulation, it still has to go through a dispatcher. so if it was done properly, it went through a dispatcher.

and trust me on that, i'm pretty well learned on police department policy. in almost every area of the US, any call (even if it is to campus police, since campus police are usually subcontracted by the city/county PD) the call MUST go through a dispatcher.

 

[little teaser]

i dont know exactly what happen and im not saying what they did wasnt wrong but being cautious has nothing to do with being racist, after 911 the us has every right to be suspicious and cautious of people and after all those school shootings and deaths police has every right to be cautious i think there train to take control of a situation befor it gets out of hand or deadly in a situation like that they dont sit there and scracth there heads and try to figure what his intentions are it only takes one second for it to turn bad so if the police ask him to do something he should of cause argueing with them is gonna make things turn ugly