Are Stereotypes Racist?

[Raerae]

I'm starting this topic due to a reaction to stereotype I commented on in another thread. And I'm curious as to what people think about them.

Do you think it's ok to use a stereotypes? Is it possible to not use a stereotype when viewing a group of people (it is afterall, impossible to know everyone on a personal level).

Are we pre-programed to apply stereotypes?

As people we typically make opinions about other people (especially racially) before we even make contact with them. We look at how they dress, how their talking with the people around them, who their friends are, etc. And put them into a catagory in our heads.

Also

Is it ok to get offended because someone uses a stereotype? Afterall, stereotypes are based on characteristic a group of people tend to display on a regular basis.

Dictionary.com defines stereotype as:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
ster·e·o·type /ˈstɛriəˌtaɪp, ˈstɪər-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ster-ee-uh-tahyp, steer-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -typed, -typ·ing.

4. Sociology. a simplified and standardized conception or image invested with special meaning and held in common by members of a group: The cowboy and Indian are American stereotypes.
–verb (used with object) 5. to make a stereotype of.

I think a common stereotype everyone on this board knows it "the dumb blonde." We all have in our heads what a "dumb blonde" is. For some of you it's Paris Hilton. A great example of this stereotype would be Christina Applegate's character on the sitcom, Married with Children.

Another place stereotypes are often used, is in comedy. If you watch any sort of comedian, they have jokes about certain races. They are often used in comedy, because they represent a extreme image of a certain type of people.

Thoughts? Are they ok to use? Is it OK to get "insulted" over a stereotype, afterall, they didn't come from nowhere.

 

[Beauty Mark]

It depends on how the stereotype is being used and who's used it. For instance, if Dave Chapelle does a skit about black stereotypes, he's trying to get people to think about the greater meaning. It's a more approachable way for you to examine the implications. It's different slightly if it's done by someone who isn't of the culture, because it's an outsider. It's like if my friends tease me about being short, it's funny, but if a stranger does it, it's harder to interpret.

If it's a stereotype based on race, it's racist.

It is indeed okay to be insulted by a stereotype, because most stereotypes aren't true for the majority. Stereotypes are generally hurtful, and people use them in hurtful ways. Even stereotyping Asians, for instance, as being smart, can be hurtful when an Asian student struggles; kids will chide him/her for it especially because of being Asian.

 

[Indigowaters]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark It depends on how the stereotype is being used and who's used it. For instance, if Dave Chapelle does a skit about black stereotypes, he's trying to get people to think about the greater meaning. It's a more approachable way for you to examine the implications. It's different slightly if it's done by someone who isn't of the culture, because it's an outsider. It's like if my friends tease me about being short, it's funny, but if a stranger does it, it's harder to interpret. If it's a stereotype based on race, it's racist. It is indeed okay to be insulted by a stereotype, because most stereotypes aren't true for the majority. Stereotypes are generally hurtful, and people use them in hurtful ways. Even stereotyping Asians, for instance, as being smart, can be hurtful when an Asian student struggles; kids will chide him/her for it especially because of being Asian.

I said I wasn't going to touch this but...I like the way you responded. Even Dave Chapelle himself said on Oprah that he stopped doing the show because he felt like instead of pointing out stereotypes by what he does in his skits, it was only fueling the mentality of those who really are racist and they wouldn't get it anyways. To me stereotypes are meant to be hurtful or demeaning.

 

[Beauty Mark]

I think most stereotypes are meant to be hurtful, but there are well-meaning ones that are hurtful. For instance (I keep referrring to Asians, because I am one), Asians are stereotyped to be good workers, smart, and thin. The good worker thing- I haven't experienced, but I've heard some convincing tales from friends that they're expected to perform better than their peers because of the stereotype.

Smart- I've already covered that. I was a good student, but it sometimes felt like people were putting less value on my hardwork. Maybe I'm being nitpicky, though.

The thin thing can help contribute to ED. It's obviously not the only cause of the ED, but I've known many girls who think because they're Asian they must be a size 2.

 

[Bernadette]

When stereotypes have to do with race and are negative it is racist. I say negative because racism is an act of intolerance, hate etc. (all negatives.)

Definition of racism from dictionary.com:
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

All stereotypes, good or bad are prejudice.

Definition of prejudice from dictionary.com:
1. an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.
2. any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable.
3. unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, esp. of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.

I think stereotypes are based on some fact but are far from the whole truth. Just because many people have similarities, doesn't mean they are all exactly the same.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bernadette When stereotypes have to do with race and are negative it is racist. I say negative because racism is an act of intolerance, hate etc. (all negatives.) Definition of racism from dictionary.com: 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others. 2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination. 3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Do you really believe that people who steriotype others are racist? I dont really believe one inheriantly leads to another. I'm sure people who are racist use steriotypes, but people who aren't racist use them as well.

For me personally, I think defenition one is stupid and dont think any color of skin has anything to do with a person's ability or superiority. Defenition 2 doesn't apply, i'm not involved in government. And even though I think some steriotypes are funny, and pre-judge people ALL THE TIME, I dont have any hatred towards any other races, and have had friends/lovers/people I admire of many different races. So defenition 3 doesn't apply eigther. I even admit to using racial slurs while I'm driving if I'm late for work and yelling at other drivers (including yelling at the dumb white bitch in the civic next to me).

I think people tend to label more things as, "racist" than actually are racist. And as a result, the meaning of the word racist has lost a lot of it's power.



Quote:

All stereotypes, good or bad are prejudice. Definition of prejudice from dictionary.com: 1. an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason. 2. any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable. 3. unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, esp. of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group. I think stereotypes are based on some fact but are far from the whole truth. Just because many people have similarities, doesn't mean they are all exactly the same.

While I'll agree that by defenition they are prejudice, because stereotypes are a preconvieved opinion, prejudice isn't necessarily bad as defenition 2 outlines.

I think more people confuse prejudice, with being racist. They are similar, but different.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark I think most stereotypes are meant to be hurtful,

But a stereotype can't be formed w/out a consistant pattern of behavior. Thats really all a stereotype is, it's a behavior pattern that is observed on a regular enough basis by enough people. So if it's such a hurtful pattern of behavior, why are so many people observed to be doing it on a regular basis?

 

[Deirdre]

I wonder why I've never met a French person who was offended about being typified as a thin smoker. Many of my French friends say this with a little chuckle. I think we take on too much offense over offhand remarks that mean nothing at all. They're neither judgemental, or racist, just kind of dumb.

Here's one: I think many North Americans, and English, are very thin skinned. Sorry if I offend anyone, but that is truly how I feel. I don't think I'm stereotyping, but saying exactly what I think, based on observation of many of these topics, as well as media and laws around PC issues in the last 25 years.

Being hateful, is well, hateful! But I really don't think a person making a typifying, stereotyped comment such as "X population's girls are so pretty." is perpetuating a stereotype - they're just stating their preference.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deirdre I wonder why I've never met a French person who was offended about being typified as a thin smoker. Many of my French friends say this with a little chuckle. I think we take on too much offense over offhand remarks that mean nothing at all. They're neither judgemental, or racist, just kind of dumb.

HAW HAW HAW! *insert snooty french guy laugh here*

lol

 

[amoona]

All latin people are Mexican and illegal in this country. They're lazy and they're all in gangs. They're all criminals.

All black people are drug dealers and criminals. They're all poor and on welfare.

All white people are racist and hate anyone of a different race. They're all hillbilly rednecks who know nothing about the rest of the world.

All asians can't drive and they all look the same. They're all good at math.

All middle eastern people are terrorists and blow each other up. They all hate America.

All homosexuals have AIDS and are going to burn in hell.

All jews are greedy and cheap.

All muslims are terrorists.

The list goes on! Stereotyping people shows ignorance and that ignorance translates into racism. You may think it's ok to stereotype Middle Eastern people because according to you we "keep blowing each other up" but if I were to use one of those stereotypes towards a different race or religion ... any member of that race or religion would be offended.

 

[quandolak]

Stereotypes= Blanket assumptions= BAD

Racism= Thoughtless hate= BAD


Err thats all...

 

[lemurian]

What a loaded idea, starting a threat INTENDED to incite argument

Actually, in some ways I'm very much in agreement with Raerae -- stereotypes EXIST because they're GENERALLY true. However, I think they have less to do with race than cultural differences. Living in America is like living in a bubble... if you judge a "race" by the way that race lives in the United States you're being ignorant. And making blanket statements about "people from the Middle East" is INCREDIBLY ignorant, considering how diverse the population is, in spite of it being mostly muslim. There are enourmously diverse beliefs and customs even among muslims, so it's hardly fair or even remotely observant to make a blanket statement about people from what is basically just a big REGION Which also includes Israel, I might add! And as far as "blowing people up" goes, not too long ago you could have said the same thing about the Irish. See how silly it seems now?

Anyway, I think referencing stereotypes CAN be great comedy, because MOSTLY it's true, and mostly it's harmless. For example, the only evidence I have seen with my own two eyes regarding the driving prowess of Asian women is that they don't have any! I'm sure there are exceptions, but who cares? I don't think less of Asian women because of it, it just makes me giggle on the occasion that I see a young Asian woman turning the wrong way down a BUSY one way street outside my place of work in Berkeley, CA over and over and over again

One stereotype that isn't funny anymore is the whole, eh.. I guess "gangsta" stereotype. There have been unflattering sterotypes projected upon poor black youth for so long that some of them have decided that it's cool to live up to those stereotypes. And that idea, that it is somehow COOL to be a gun-toting, poorly spoken, orthodontically-challenged bafoon has bled into other races as well (thanks, MTV!). I'm a very fair skinned blonde and lived in Oakland, CA for 5 years, took the bus daily, often in the wee hours, and was attacked once.. by a rich white kid doing his damnest to imitate the WORST stereotypes projected upon young black men. It was one of those WTF watershed moments for me.. a prime example of how stereotypes are sometimes not funny after all and how influential they can be even if they're always portrayed in a negative light.

So, I guess in summation I'd say that stereotypes can often be fun, relevant and harmless. But we shouldn't confuse stereotypes with plain ignorance. Refer to the Simpsons when wishing to reference comedic stereotypes

And avoid implying that just because you're from a particular geographical region you're into blowing people up

 

[ilovexnerdsx]

IMO, i think we do tend to judge people off of first impressions (what they're wearing, how confident they look about themselves, etc) but that's not necessarily stereotyping. ive read a couple different books on body language over and over again, and i'm fascinated by it. i believe we are pre-programmed to pick up on things on, say, how people present themselves, but stereotyping is much more general.

for example: the other night i was walking through target wearing shorts and tights. as i was passing an aisle, i heard someone cough and say "whore". being the individual i am, i turned my ass around and confronted her. she held her head low, turned her torso away from me, and claimed it wasnt her who said it, though she kept smiling. holding her head low and keeping her body away from me signaled she was uncomfortable with the situation because she knew she had been caught doing something she thought she would get away with. her smiling is some people's way to feel more confident about themselves and look more "in control", but her other body language negated that and told me she was so embarrassed she wasnt even quite sure what to do.

what she did to me was stereotyping. just because i am wearing tights does not mean i am a whore. in fact, it was 65 degrees out and hey, i like tights. (AND, for the record, i am a virgin.)

i just analyzed her body language off of what i saw from her, and ended up deciding to tell her she was pathetic and unoriginal and i walked away. i did not stereotype her. i did not say "she's wearing sweatpants, she must not care how she looks."

i think stereotyping is sort of an if-then statement. "IF she is black, then she must have a gun on her." "IF she is blonde, then she must be dumb." just a common element i picked up on.

i think i may have gotten a little off-course...am i making sense? i don't think we are pre-programmed to stereotype, but i DO strongly believe we judge on first impressions.

 

[jenii]

Raerae, did you absolutely *have* to start an entire thread just to carry out your drama with amoona? Or did you honestly think nobody would see right through it?

I have nothing against you, but this is just petty. :|

 

[Indigowaters]

I think stereotypes coupled with power can produce racism. For instance, if I were an employer and thought that because of a person’s color, they were incompetent off the bat without giving them a chance to prove themselves, that would be racist. Or if I were in a position of power or authority that could affect someone’s life and I based that decision on the actions of a few people I met of that color and tried to withhold something that was rightfully theirs or did any damage to them or their property, that would be considered racist. So I think that prejudices and stereotypes can be ignorant but also lead to racism.

 

[Indigowaters]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemurian Actually, in some ways I'm very much in agreement with Raerae -- stereotypes EXIST because they're GENERALLY true.

This is what I have a problem with. Stereotypes exist because people say they're true then pass it along as fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemurian Anyway, I think referencing stereotypes CAN be great comedy, because MOSTLY it's true, and mostly it's harmless. For example, the only evidence I have seen with my own two eyes regarding the driving prowess of Asian women is that they don't have any! I'm sure there are exceptions, but who cares?

Maybe the Asian woman cares.

This attitude that it can be fun and comedic is why people don't take others seriously when others claim to have been profiled in a serious situation. People who are being stereotyped are given the cheesy

attitude of "Oh, I was just joking, don't be so senstive". This isn't a personal attack on you, just stating my opinion.

 

[Hawkeye]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenii Raerae, did you absolutely *have* to start an entire thread just to carry out your drama with amoona? Or did you honestly think nobody would see right through it? I have nothing against you, but this is just petty. :|

In all sincerety, though I do tend to agree that this has gone on long enough - I'm just glad she started another thread and stopped dragging it out in a thread that had absolutely no place for it. I know Raerae is at least tried to keep it out of the public forum.

SO Back on topic at hand- I can't really answer that. I think a lot of people find things very offensive but I have found that when people who get offended the most-they are the ones usually the one who are the most uptight and can't poke fun of oneself and may themselves be slightly "racists" about the person making the joke. On the other side of the coin however the jokes being made must be in good tastes. I also think some jokes are a lot better left unsaid. I have a lot of respect for Chappell.

 

[Indigowaters]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbeabitch SO Back on topic at hand- I can't really answer that. I think a lot of people find things very offensive but I have found that when people who get offended the most-they are the ones usually the one who are the most uptight and can't poke fun of oneself and may themselves be slightly "racists" about the person making the joke. On the other side of the coin however the jokes being made must be in good tastes. I also think some jokes are a lot better left unsaid. I have a lot of respect for Chappell.

WTH? Projecting racism on the person to whom it is already projected? Clever. I have more respect for Chapelle after his decision to leave the show. People were like, "Oh, what about the money?". Screw money when it comes to making your own people look bad. And that’s exactly how he felt.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indigowaters This is what I have a problem with. Stereotypes exist because people say they're true then pass it along as fact. Maybe the Asian woman cares. This attitude that it can be fun and comedic is why people don't take others seriously when others claim to have been profiled in a serious situation. People who are being stereotyped are given the cheesy attitude of "Oh, I was just joking, don't be so senstive". This isn't a personal attack on you, just stating my opinion.

But WHY does the Asian woman care?
Is it true? Probably not to the extent that the entire culture could be described that way.
Why does the blond care if people think she's dumb?
Is it true?
Why does the black woman care of people think she is loud and confrontational?
Is it true? Is it an aspect of her personality? If not, WHO CARES? Why should she care? If it is, why be offended about something that's TRUE? If she's the type of person who crawls up into someone's face screaming and yelling, why be mad when someone points that out?
Is the white person automatically racist because s/he's white? Yes? If s/he is, then s/he forfeits all right to be angry when that's pointed out. If not, then WHO CARES if someone else says s/he's racist. That's the misconception of the individual forming an uneducated opinion.

I don't dislike anyone because they're black.
I don't dislike anyone because they're Korean.
I don't dislike anyone because they're Muslim.
I don't dislike anyone because they're Mexican.
I don't dislike anyone because they're Scientologist.
I don't dislike anyone because they're whatever race, color, creed, belief, nationality, birth order, hair color, or any other external, superficial reason you can possibly imagine...

I dislike people who display willful ignorance, unending stupidity, belligerent laziness, intentional dishonesty, unwillingness to better the quality of life, inflated sense of self entitlement, etc.
I don't care of the stupid person is black. I only care that the person is stupid.
I don't care that the liar is white. I only care that the person is a liar.
I don't care that the lazy lout is Korean. I only care that s/he's lazy.

WHY CARE what someone else says...as long as it isn't the truth? By applying an untruth to another person based on limited evidence that person is only displaying his or her own ignorance.

 

[lemurian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indigowaters Maybe the Asian woman cares. This attitude that it can be fun and comedic is why people don't take others seriously when others claim to have been profiled in a serious situation. People who are being stereotyped are given the cheesy attitude of "Oh, I was just joking, don't be so senstive". This isn't a personal attack on you, just stating my opinion.

Well, yes, obviously the asian women care But enough to be truly hurt or feel demeaned? I'd be surprised. There are certainly different degrees to which stereotypes can be damaging, and this particular example was given to illustrate a stereotype that no one is going to lose any sleep over. Maybe I'm wrong? I know that I'm not the greatest driver on Earth, and maybe I should have used a broad stroke and used the stereotype of ALL WOMEN being bad drivers, haha!!

But point taken. It's a slippery slope.