Are Stereotypes Racist?
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Raerae
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No I agree. But until you have a greater expierence with those people, it's hard to get away from it.
Yes he's a dealer. No i dont care. Why? I've had dealer friends in the past, and while I personally dont use anything anymore and haven't for several years, I dont hold it against the people who do. I've also had plenty of friends who are not dealers, who dress just like him.
What I left out of that post, was I gave my Mom an ear full for doing that. I always call her out on it when she does stuff like that. Just like I call her out at dinner tables when she starts using special-ed english because the waiter is mexican, even if he speaks perfect english.
But it doesn't really help. She still does it. She hasn't kicked it enough with black or hispanic families to know that there not all that different from white families. She didn't spend halloween on my Neighbors porch drinking with all the moms and all their kids, passing out candy to the families in long beach, who's halloween costume was some face paint, and a plastic grochery bag from the supermarket. And until you do that, and actually take time to get to know peeps, it's hard to see past the steriotypes, because sometimes thats all you know.
Originally Posted by Indigowaters
No. She’s not racist. Yes, she did stereotype him. That’s why I gave the equation of stereotyping + power = racism. She had no power over him in that situation. Or shall I say, negative power. It’s one thing for her to be concerned for you, my mom would have looked the same way. But we have to stop assuming that because a person looks a certain way, they are capable of doing harm to us or they’re up to no good. Maybe that guy was a drug dealer. But what about the guy who dresses the same way on his off time as a Captain of the Navy just because he likes that style of dress and that type of car and those type of rims? Or the guy who wears dreads that’s dressed down, that people think is a thug about to mug them, but is actually the head of his own company? (Two examples that I have actually witnessed and not just making up). Sometimes we take stereotyping too far and that’s when it goes beyond that into the area of misjudging someone not on their character but the way they look. |
No I agree. But until you have a greater expierence with those people, it's hard to get away from it.
Yes he's a dealer. No i dont care. Why? I've had dealer friends in the past, and while I personally dont use anything anymore and haven't for several years, I dont hold it against the people who do. I've also had plenty of friends who are not dealers, who dress just like him.
What I left out of that post, was I gave my Mom an ear full for doing that. I always call her out on it when she does stuff like that. Just like I call her out at dinner tables when she starts using special-ed english because the waiter is mexican, even if he speaks perfect english.
But it doesn't really help. She still does it. She hasn't kicked it enough with black or hispanic families to know that there not all that different from white families. She didn't spend halloween on my Neighbors porch drinking with all the moms and all their kids, passing out candy to the families in long beach, who's halloween costume was some face paint, and a plastic grochery bag from the supermarket. And until you do that, and actually take time to get to know peeps, it's hard to see past the steriotypes, because sometimes thats all you know.
Indigowaters
Well-known member
Quote:
You know what they say about people that make assumptions? I gave that example to prove a point. You can stereotype, but I can’t. And when I do I’m "sensitive"? BTW, the officer was Hispanic.
Note: Never once did I give the race of the officer in the previous posts, but that's the way everyone is conditioned to think. Black person complaining about whites again.
| Originally Posted by Raerae
FYI Not trying to throw you on the spot, but your portraying another typical stereotype, "all blacks believe that all white officers pull over black drivers, just because their black." I'm not saying you didn't get pulled over because your black. It's possible. But you really dont know for certain. Everything you expierence, from being followed, to being pulled over for dumb reasons, I've expierenced as well. I've been embarassed by police on the sides of roads while they searched my car, KNOWING that everyone who was driving by was probably laughing at me. I've had police officers literally make me CRY in front of them because they were so mean to me while explaining why they pulled me over. Having bad expierences with white officers isn't just a black thing. It happens to all of us. I hate cops personally, 9 out of 10 expierences Ive had with them are for stupid reasons, and their usually mean and cocky while trying to educate you with that superior attitude they ALWAYS use. Edit: Indigo, please remember while reading that, that I'm not downplaying your expierences with white officers, they were probably just as horrible as mine were. And I totally agree that you were probably being ticketed, or stopped for stupid reasons. But just please keep in mind that even white people have horrid expierences with cops being assholes. |
You know what they say about people that make assumptions? I gave that example to prove a point. You can stereotype, but I can’t. And when I do I’m "sensitive"? BTW, the officer was Hispanic.
Note: Never once did I give the race of the officer in the previous posts, but that's the way everyone is conditioned to think. Black person complaining about whites again.
Beauty Mark
Well-known member
In respect to this thread, I think there are varying degrees of racism. Not every person is racist is going to be KKK person or Neo-Nazi. I think it's complicated and isn't (no pun intended) a black and white issue. My grandmother shows strong racist views on black people, yet her only friend on her street is black. In her opinion, the friend is the exception not the rule. I don't even know how they became friends, considering how strong her prejudice is. She's still freaked out one of my best friends is black.
Raerae, given the info on your mother, her actions are racist IMO. I don't see racism being exclusive to powerful folks. She's judging them on their skin tone. They're insulting but they're harmless. That's what I'm talking about when I say there are different degrees of racism
Raerae, given the info on your mother, her actions are racist IMO. I don't see racism being exclusive to powerful folks. She's judging them on their skin tone. They're insulting but they're harmless. That's what I'm talking about when I say there are different degrees of racism
amoona
Well-known member
Quote:
I agree but I still think it is harmful. It's one more person believing the stereotype.
| Originally Posted by Beauty Mark
Raerae, given the info on your mother, her actions are racist IMO. I don't see racism being exclusive to powerful folks. She's judging them on their skin tone. They're insulting but they're harmless. That's what I'm talking about when I say there are different degrees of racism |
I agree but I still think it is harmful. It's one more person believing the stereotype.
Raerae
Well-known member
Quote:
Ugh, i'm trying really hard to not drag this into the thread... But since you insist on dragging it in here, I need to clarify.
I actually didn't say, "If your Middle Eastern, you blow people up." I made a joke on the current political climate in Iraq in response to someone saying how silly it would be if we handled all our disagreements by pushing people in front of busses.
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All my joke was, was a satire on the current trend of retribution kilings and suicide/car bombings in Iraq. Which I find rather crazy tbh. Violence will never solve anything in the modern world. Violence just creates more violence. And I can't see how anyone can disagree that the methods used by those in the Mid East is anything but crazy (FYI simiar political jokes were made back when the IRA was blowing everything up).
So if different factions in the Mid East are using bombs to carry out retribution attacks on each other because they can't agree, it's not really far fetched to joke about in reply to the comment quoted above that if the argument took place in the Mid East, they woulnd't push each other into traffic, but they would blow each other up.
One thing Amoona, that you also have to remember, it America is a culture that values our freedom to poke fun at, and satire any topic. No topic is, "off limits" for people to point out the obvious.
| Originally Posted by amoona
And what if you're not being stereotypical? That's the point, her original remarks which started this thread were racist. If you see someone who you think is Middle Eastern and Muslim it's not ok to think they're gonna blow you up. If you see a Black man and assume he's going to rob you then that's not ok. If you see a White man and assume he hates you because you're not White that's not ok. |
Ugh, i'm trying really hard to not drag this into the thread... But since you insist on dragging it in here, I need to clarify.
I actually didn't say, "If your Middle Eastern, you blow people up." I made a joke on the current political climate in Iraq in response to someone saying how silly it would be if we handled all our disagreements by pushing people in front of busses.
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| Wow, have you ever protested outside of Neiman Marcus in SF? Have I pushed you into traffic? Why does one person's thoughtlessness make it okay for you to be equally thoughtless (and incredibly ill-mannered)? Imagine if we all went around physically accosting everyone we didn't see eye to eye with. |
All my joke was, was a satire on the current trend of retribution kilings and suicide/car bombings in Iraq. Which I find rather crazy tbh. Violence will never solve anything in the modern world. Violence just creates more violence. And I can't see how anyone can disagree that the methods used by those in the Mid East is anything but crazy (FYI simiar political jokes were made back when the IRA was blowing everything up).
So if different factions in the Mid East are using bombs to carry out retribution attacks on each other because they can't agree, it's not really far fetched to joke about in reply to the comment quoted above that if the argument took place in the Mid East, they woulnd't push each other into traffic, but they would blow each other up.
One thing Amoona, that you also have to remember, it America is a culture that values our freedom to poke fun at, and satire any topic. No topic is, "off limits" for people to point out the obvious.
Beauty Mark
Well-known member
Quote:
I meant it was harmless in the grand scheme of things. She meant well, but I get what you're saying
| I agree but I still think it is harmful. It's one more person believing the stereotype. |
I meant it was harmless in the grand scheme of things. She meant well, but I get what you're saying
Raerae
Well-known member
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Point noted.
But considering you made the post a color post by introducing it with,
"Shimmer - I feel what you're trying to say but when I'm stereotyped by my color and nothing else I DO CARE."
If you dont provide the color of the officer, I'm going to assume he's white. Not because I'm pointing out because I'm white, "Oh another black person complaining about a White Officer." But because typically in my expierences from hanging out with blacks, and from what I see in the news, and TV, most racial problems are between Whites and Blacks.
While there has been an increse in Black on Hispanic violence recently, going by odds, it would be silly to bet on the minority of encounters that are hispanic, compared with the majority of encounters being white.
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Were conditioned to think this way because thats what the majority of our expierences are. It's what I typically see on TV, hear about in the news (Although in local LA news that trend is changing), see Black Political Figures bringing up stuff from hundreds of years ago.
It goes back to if 9 ducks quack, the 10th one prolly quacks too. So if the majority of racial issues that I know about are, "black vs white" I'm going to assume, yours is as well.
I think it's impossible for humans to be 100% objective on a topic. We form opinions within seconds of reading about something. Based on our own expierences. We can't help it, it's human nature.
| Originally Posted by Indigowaters
You know what they say about people that make assumptions? |
Point noted.
But considering you made the post a color post by introducing it with,
"Shimmer - I feel what you're trying to say but when I'm stereotyped by my color and nothing else I DO CARE."
If you dont provide the color of the officer, I'm going to assume he's white. Not because I'm pointing out because I'm white, "Oh another black person complaining about a White Officer." But because typically in my expierences from hanging out with blacks, and from what I see in the news, and TV, most racial problems are between Whites and Blacks.
While there has been an increse in Black on Hispanic violence recently, going by odds, it would be silly to bet on the minority of encounters that are hispanic, compared with the majority of encounters being white.
Quote:
| Note: Never once did I give the race of the officer in the previous posts, but that's the way everyone is conditioned to think. Black person complaining about whites again. |
Were conditioned to think this way because thats what the majority of our expierences are. It's what I typically see on TV, hear about in the news (Although in local LA news that trend is changing), see Black Political Figures bringing up stuff from hundreds of years ago.
It goes back to if 9 ducks quack, the 10th one prolly quacks too. So if the majority of racial issues that I know about are, "black vs white" I'm going to assume, yours is as well.
I think it's impossible for humans to be 100% objective on a topic. We form opinions within seconds of reading about something. Based on our own expierences. We can't help it, it's human nature.
amoona
Well-known member
"Just be glad she isn't in the middle east, they blow people up they dont see eye to eye with =P"
That's exactly what you said in the original posting. That's a stereotype that you came up with based solely on what you see in American news. It's your ignorance, and that's understood because a lot of people are ignorant to a lot of things. There's a million things we're all ignorant too. However when it's something that serious and you attempt to make a joke ... which I said was in poor taste and offensive ... then that's not ok. You're believing the stereotype and you're possibly causing someone else to believe the same stereotype.
I hate to break it to you but what is going on in Iraq is no laughing matter. It's pretty sick to make a joke like that and think it's funny. Shall we sit and make fun of the Sudanese in Darfur for killing each other? Or how about everyone who's being killed in Africa over diamonds? Or even better lets sit and make fun of American soldiers being killed ... that's always a riot.
Hate to break it to you but this is the real world and if you just want to laugh and joke things off then fine. Like I said though, it's not funny, it is offensive and it is racist. Don't expect everyone to just shut up and take your racisim because I wont.
ALSO I'm not dragging this into this thread ... this thread was started because you made the original comment. You don't want me to bring it up when you actually created an entire thread revolving around it?!
That's exactly what you said in the original posting. That's a stereotype that you came up with based solely on what you see in American news. It's your ignorance, and that's understood because a lot of people are ignorant to a lot of things. There's a million things we're all ignorant too. However when it's something that serious and you attempt to make a joke ... which I said was in poor taste and offensive ... then that's not ok. You're believing the stereotype and you're possibly causing someone else to believe the same stereotype.
I hate to break it to you but what is going on in Iraq is no laughing matter. It's pretty sick to make a joke like that and think it's funny. Shall we sit and make fun of the Sudanese in Darfur for killing each other? Or how about everyone who's being killed in Africa over diamonds? Or even better lets sit and make fun of American soldiers being killed ... that's always a riot.
Hate to break it to you but this is the real world and if you just want to laugh and joke things off then fine. Like I said though, it's not funny, it is offensive and it is racist. Don't expect everyone to just shut up and take your racisim because I wont.
ALSO I'm not dragging this into this thread ... this thread was started because you made the original comment. You don't want me to bring it up when you actually created an entire thread revolving around it?!
sharyn
Well-known member
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I agree.
Freedom is a great thing. Freedom of speech is very important. Has anyone of you read 1984 by Orwell? When you can no longer speak your mind because of words being replaced by new words (PC) I think this world will go to hell. And satire, jokes and such are part of Freedom of speech. I will never support any kind of censorship or PC.
*edit:
Saire is not only for laughing/fun purposes. Satire is/was/will be used to ... um I dont know how you say it in english, but it means something like to hold a mirror in front of them so they see what they are actually doing. So banning satire and saying you cant make fun of this or that is wrong because it is not only fun...uugh I hope you all know what I mean?
| Originally Posted by Raerae
I actually didn't say, "If your Middle Eastern, you blow people up." I made a joke on the current political climate in Iraq in response to someone saying how silly it would be if we handled all our disagreements by pushing people in front of busses. All my joke was, was a satire on the current trend of retribution kilings and suicide/car bombings in Iraq. Which I find rather crazy tbh. Violence will never solve anything in the modern world. Violence just creates more violence. And I can't see how anyone can disagree that the methods used by those in the Mid East is anything but crazy (FYI simiar political jokes were made back when the IRA was blowing everything up). So if different factions in the Mid East are using bombs to carry out retribution attacks on each other because they can't agree, it's not really far fetched to joke about in reply to the comment quoted above that if the argument took place in the Mid East, they woulnd't push each other into traffic, but they would blow each other up. One thing Amoona, that you also have to remember, it America is a culture that values our freedom to poke fun at, and satire any topic. No topic is, "off limits" for people to point out the obvious. |
I agree.
Freedom is a great thing. Freedom of speech is very important. Has anyone of you read 1984 by Orwell? When you can no longer speak your mind because of words being replaced by new words (PC) I think this world will go to hell. And satire, jokes and such are part of Freedom of speech. I will never support any kind of censorship or PC.
*edit:
Saire is not only for laughing/fun purposes. Satire is/was/will be used to ... um I dont know how you say it in english, but it means something like to hold a mirror in front of them so they see what they are actually doing. So banning satire and saying you cant make fun of this or that is wrong because it is not only fun...uugh I hope you all know what I mean?
Beauty Mark
Well-known member
But freedom of speech allows anyone to disagree with what's being said and say they wish they wouldn't say whatever was offensive. Is it my right in the US to be stereotypical? Yes, but it doesn't make it morally right IMO.
sharyn
Well-known member
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which is a good thing, no matter which side it comes from. You can not say that everyone should live in peace and harmony together and in the same time demand censorship or even punishment for people who disagree. Thats what I wanted to say, I hope I could say it more clearly with this post.
| Originally Posted by Beauty Mark
But freedom of speech allows anyone to disagree with what's being said and say they wish they wouldn't say whatever was offensive. |
which is a good thing, no matter which side it comes from. You can not say that everyone should live in peace and harmony together and in the same time demand censorship or even punishment for people who disagree. Thats what I wanted to say, I hope I could say it more clearly with this post.
Raerae
Well-known member
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My grandfather is the same way. I have a hard time understanding if it's because he dislikes blacks based on the fact their black, or if it's because of the period of time he grew up in where discrimination against blacks was the norm. I dont know him well enough to decide.
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I agree with your points. Which is why i call my Mom on it when she does it. It's totally embarassing at times.
But if thats the case, were all racist. Which is why I believe the word racist in today's world needes to be better defined. It's lost a lot of it's meaning, and with how diverse things are becomming that's a bad thing.
Yes my Mom is being racist, but to such a small degree, that it's really trivial to call it racism. Part of it comes from the fact she teaches special education (not the special needs kids) in Orange County. 1/2 of her class has latino ESL kids in it. So the majority of her expierence with latino's comes from kids/parents who dont speak english at all, of have a very basic grasp of the language. So I can understand why she does it, even if it embarasses me and I dont agree with it.
Truthfully, I dont think it's possible not to be racist if you simply define racism as having a preconcieved notions about people based on their skin color. We can't avoid it, it's how were programmed in our heads to understand the world we live in.
Think about it a moment...
Lets take fire as an example. If you burn yourself once, you learn that fire is hot. You might even burn yourself again. But there is going to come a point where you go, if I touch the fire, i'm going to be burned. It would be pretty dumb to think, well lets see, the last 9 times i touched fire, i got burned, maybe this time it wont burn me.
The same applies to having interactions with different races. Unless you have interacted with enough people of a race to have a broad range of expierences, you can only judge them based upon what you know. This is why I think the word racism needs to be better defined. I dont think my Mom is being racist when she talks slowly to latino servers at restaraunts. She's just interacting with them based upon the expierence with latino families that she has had, and for her, most of them have broken english or translate through their ESL kids. Wheras I have lots of Latina friends who speak perfect english, so my expierence with latino's is different than hers.
I dont think it's fair to call someone racist because they haven't had a chance to broaden their expierences with other races. I do think it's fair to call someone a racist if they have had the opportunity to do so, but refuse because of their skin color.
| Originally Posted by Beauty Mark
In respect to this thread, I think there are varying degrees of racism. Not every person is racist is going to be KKK person or Neo-Nazi. I think it's complicated and isn't (no pun intended) a black and white issue. My grandmother shows strong racist views on black people, yet her only friend on her street is black. In her opinion, the friend is the exception not the rule. I don't even know how they became friends, considering how strong her prejudice is. She's still freaked out one of my best friends is black. |
My grandfather is the same way. I have a hard time understanding if it's because he dislikes blacks based on the fact their black, or if it's because of the period of time he grew up in where discrimination against blacks was the norm. I dont know him well enough to decide.
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| Raerae, given the info on your mother, her actions are racist IMO. I don't see racism being exclusive to powerful folks. She's judging them on their skin tone. They're insulting but they're harmless. That's what I'm talking about when I say there are different degrees of racism |
I agree with your points. Which is why i call my Mom on it when she does it. It's totally embarassing at times.
But if thats the case, were all racist. Which is why I believe the word racist in today's world needes to be better defined. It's lost a lot of it's meaning, and with how diverse things are becomming that's a bad thing.
Yes my Mom is being racist, but to such a small degree, that it's really trivial to call it racism. Part of it comes from the fact she teaches special education (not the special needs kids) in Orange County. 1/2 of her class has latino ESL kids in it. So the majority of her expierence with latino's comes from kids/parents who dont speak english at all, of have a very basic grasp of the language. So I can understand why she does it, even if it embarasses me and I dont agree with it.
Truthfully, I dont think it's possible not to be racist if you simply define racism as having a preconcieved notions about people based on their skin color. We can't avoid it, it's how were programmed in our heads to understand the world we live in.
Think about it a moment...
Lets take fire as an example. If you burn yourself once, you learn that fire is hot. You might even burn yourself again. But there is going to come a point where you go, if I touch the fire, i'm going to be burned. It would be pretty dumb to think, well lets see, the last 9 times i touched fire, i got burned, maybe this time it wont burn me.
The same applies to having interactions with different races. Unless you have interacted with enough people of a race to have a broad range of expierences, you can only judge them based upon what you know. This is why I think the word racism needs to be better defined. I dont think my Mom is being racist when she talks slowly to latino servers at restaraunts. She's just interacting with them based upon the expierence with latino families that she has had, and for her, most of them have broken english or translate through their ESL kids. Wheras I have lots of Latina friends who speak perfect english, so my expierence with latino's is different than hers.
I dont think it's fair to call someone racist because they haven't had a chance to broaden their expierences with other races. I do think it's fair to call someone a racist if they have had the opportunity to do so, but refuse because of their skin color.
Raerae
Well-known member
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Making a joke about something doesn't make me ignorant. As i mentioned before in the PM i sent you which you probably ignored, I specifically took courses in college on global politics, specifically the Middle East, to learn more about the conflict than the one sided media propaganda.
http://www.qajarpages.org/eskandari.html
1.1.1.2.1.1 Manoutchehr M. Eskandari-Qajar (Kadjar), son of Prince Manoutchehr Mirza Eskandari and his second wife, Gerlinde Maria. Father of 1.1.1.2.1.1.1 Amir-Hamsa M. Eskandari-Qajar (Kadjar) and 1.1.1.2.1.1.2 Yasamin Eskandari-Qajar (Kadjar) [see below]. There have always been two strands in our family running side by side, one politics, the other literary and academic pursuits. So far I have chosen the academic route. However, in teaching politics, I have managed to wed the two strands to my own satisfaction in my career as professor at an American college.
If anyone on this board can hold a discussion on the Mid East politics with you, it would be me. That amazing man in the photo is the most brilliant and inspirational teacher I have ever had the pleasure of studying under. I doubt many people on this board have had the opportunity to talk Mid East politics with someone who is part of the Exiled Ruling family in Iran. Your just as guilty as I am in stereotyping Americans as ignorant and uneducated on the topic of the Mid East.
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Want me to post Political cartoons about how many American soldiers have been killed? I assure you, that topic is NOT taboo when criticizing the American Governtment and the horrible mess they have gotten our country into. And I'm GLAD in our country we have the freedom to point out these things.
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Sometime people have to be reminded of how silly they look to the rest of the world before they stop doing something.
| Originally Posted by amoona
"Just be glad she isn't in the middle east, they blow people up they dont see eye to eye with =P" That's exactly what you said in the original posting. That's a stereotype that you came up with based solely on what you see in American news. It's your ignorance, and that's understood because a lot of people are ignorant to a lot of things. There's a million things we're all ignorant too. |
Making a joke about something doesn't make me ignorant. As i mentioned before in the PM i sent you which you probably ignored, I specifically took courses in college on global politics, specifically the Middle East, to learn more about the conflict than the one sided media propaganda.
http://www.qajarpages.org/eskandari.html
1.1.1.2.1.1 Manoutchehr M. Eskandari-Qajar (Kadjar), son of Prince Manoutchehr Mirza Eskandari and his second wife, Gerlinde Maria. Father of 1.1.1.2.1.1.1 Amir-Hamsa M. Eskandari-Qajar (Kadjar) and 1.1.1.2.1.1.2 Yasamin Eskandari-Qajar (Kadjar) [see below]. There have always been two strands in our family running side by side, one politics, the other literary and academic pursuits. So far I have chosen the academic route. However, in teaching politics, I have managed to wed the two strands to my own satisfaction in my career as professor at an American college.
If anyone on this board can hold a discussion on the Mid East politics with you, it would be me. That amazing man in the photo is the most brilliant and inspirational teacher I have ever had the pleasure of studying under. I doubt many people on this board have had the opportunity to talk Mid East politics with someone who is part of the Exiled Ruling family in Iran. Your just as guilty as I am in stereotyping Americans as ignorant and uneducated on the topic of the Mid East.
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| I hate to break it to you but what is going on in Iraq is no laughing matter. It's pretty sick to make a joke like that and think it's funny. Shall we sit and make fun of the Sudanese in Darfur for killing each other? Or how about everyone who's being killed in Africa over diamonds? Or even better lets sit and make fun of American soldiers being killed ... that's always a riot. |
Want me to post Political cartoons about how many American soldiers have been killed? I assure you, that topic is NOT taboo when criticizing the American Governtment and the horrible mess they have gotten our country into. And I'm GLAD in our country we have the freedom to point out these things.
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| Hate to break it to you but this is the real world and if you just want to laugh and joke things off then fine. Like I said though, it's not funny, it is offensive and it is racist. Don't expect everyone to just shut up and take your racisim because I wont. |
Sometime people have to be reminded of how silly they look to the rest of the world before they stop doing something.
Raerae
Well-known member
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Your confusing ignorance with lack of expierence. Not having the chance to expierence something doesn't make you ignorant.
It's impossible to expierence everything. And it's equally silly to expect everyone to run out and try to expierence everything just so they have a more rounded opinion.
You can only expect people to try to do their best with the opportunities that have been presented to them in their lives. And hope that if they are given a chance, they take it.
Edit: to better clarify, I would call someone ignorant if they had to opportunity to meet, talk, make friends, whatever with another race, but declined because everything they need to know about "x race", they learned in kindergarden.
| Originally Posted by Shimmer
is ignorance an acceptable excuse? |
Your confusing ignorance with lack of expierence. Not having the chance to expierence something doesn't make you ignorant.
It's impossible to expierence everything. And it's equally silly to expect everyone to run out and try to expierence everything just so they have a more rounded opinion.
You can only expect people to try to do their best with the opportunities that have been presented to them in their lives. And hope that if they are given a chance, they take it.
Edit: to better clarify, I would call someone ignorant if they had to opportunity to meet, talk, make friends, whatever with another race, but declined because everything they need to know about "x race", they learned in kindergarden.
Beauty Mark
Well-known member
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I think most people today have had opportunities to 'experience' other races and see negative and positive in them enough that ignorance isn't an excuse, unless you choose to be ignorant. The Internet, the news, TV (though lacking in diversity) has shown a lot of positive folks who are a minority of some kind
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I don't have preconceived notions based on skin color. Sometimes class-based (and I know that's wrong and I work on that a lot), but I see a person as being an x person. Nothing else.
| Originally Posted by Shimmer
is ignorance an acceptable excuse? |
I think most people today have had opportunities to 'experience' other races and see negative and positive in them enough that ignorance isn't an excuse, unless you choose to be ignorant. The Internet, the news, TV (though lacking in diversity) has shown a lot of positive folks who are a minority of some kind
Quote:
| Truthfully, I dont think it's possible not to be racist if you simply define racism as having a preconcieved notions about people based on their skin color. We can't avoid it, it's how were programmed in our heads to understand the world we live in. |
I don't have preconceived notions based on skin color. Sometimes class-based (and I know that's wrong and I work on that a lot), but I see a person as being an x person. Nothing else.
Shimmer
Well-known member
Quote:
You mean to tell me your mother has never
ever
in her life had the opportunity to engage with someone outside the realm of that which she knows?
Not once?
I'm sorry, I simply can't see that as a real possibility.
Ignorance, willful or not, is no excuse.
| Originally Posted by Raerae Your confusing ignorance with lack of expierence. Not having the chance to expierence something doesn't make you ignorant. It's impossible to expierence everything. And it's equally silly to expect everyone to run out and try to expierence everything just so they have a more rounded opinion. You can only expect people to try to do their best with the opportunities that have been presented to them in their lives. And hope that if they are given a chance, they take it. |
You mean to tell me your mother has never
ever
in her life had the opportunity to engage with someone outside the realm of that which she knows?
Not once?
I'm sorry, I simply can't see that as a real possibility.
Ignorance, willful or not, is no excuse.
Raerae
Well-known member
Shimmer - To give a better example of what I'm trying to say I'm going to use the Movie, "Remember the Titans."
In that movie, I don't think you can call the white kids at the begining, "ignorant" for disliking the blacks. Yes they were racist, but they were racist because thats all they had been taught. When the black kids came to the team, the captain took the opportunity to change his opinion on blacks once he had the chance to interact with them on a real level. And became best friends with the other black captain.
The other white kid who was the captain previous best friend, choose to not get along with the blacks, because they were black. He is ignorant, because he had the opportunity to form his own opinion, and chose not too. That is ignorance.
In that movie, I don't think you can call the white kids at the begining, "ignorant" for disliking the blacks. Yes they were racist, but they were racist because thats all they had been taught. When the black kids came to the team, the captain took the opportunity to change his opinion on blacks once he had the chance to interact with them on a real level. And became best friends with the other black captain.
The other white kid who was the captain previous best friend, choose to not get along with the blacks, because they were black. He is ignorant, because he had the opportunity to form his own opinion, and chose not too. That is ignorance.
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