Are Stereotypes Racist?

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sharyn

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by amoona
I don't get you ... you said you were making a joke about the situation in Iraq by commenting about the bombings there. Then you say you didn't say it was funny that people are dieing?!

Satiric jokes about something and laughing/really finding it funny are two different things. this has been said a couple of times in this thread!
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimmer
You mean to tell me your mother has never
ever
in her life had the opportunity to engage with someone outside the realm of that which she knows?
Not once?

I'm sorry, I simply can't see that as a real possibility.

Ignorance, willful or not, is no excuse.


Meeting someone in passing and being polite to them isn't expierencing them. Thats just tolerance. I think most people these days have a tolerance for all races. AKA, we really dont have much of an emotional reaction to someone walking around. I doubt my Mom hates hispanics, she pours her heart and soul into trying to teach these young boys and girls.

Whens the last time you brought your kids over to a BBQ/party to another family's house that was a diff race? Whens the last time you lived in a neighborhood where you were the only white family on it? People who do that on a regular basis are exceptions, not the rule. My neighbors were totally confused as to why as the daughter of a fairly well off white family, I would choose to move into the ghetto of long beach. To them it didn't make sense.

Look at a school campus on lunch. White kids sit with white kids, Mexican with mexican, blacks with blacks, asians with asians. Yeh there are exceptions, but on a whole we SELF SEGREGATE eachother. Look at a city. Long Beach has blocks that are different races, and generally, if your not that race, you dont live there.

Stuff like this is why you dont see people all that egar to start mixing.

This is my city:

Hate crime charges filed in attack
Seven girls, one boy could face imprisonment until age 25 if convicted in Halloween beating.
By Tracy Manzer, Staff writer


LONG BEACH - Hate crime charges were filed Wednesday against eight black teenagers accused in the brutal beating of three young white women on Halloween.

After reviewing the Police Department's investigation and conducting interviews with the victims, the Los Angeles district attorney's office decided to file hate crime allegations against eight of the 10 defendants, said spokeswoman Sandi Gibbons.

The allegations add a four-year sentencing enhancement to charges already leveled against all 10 teens, including assault with a deadly weapon causing great bodily injury.

Arraigned on the enhanced charge Wednesday in Long Beach Superior Court's Juvenile Division were one boy and seven girls, Gibbons said.

She declined to give their ages, and they have not been identified because they are minors.

Because they are juveniles, the maximum sentence each could receive if they are found guilty on all counts would be imprisonment in the California Youth Authority until they are 25, Gibbons said.

"Sentencing is at the complete discretion of the judge in both juvenile and adult court," she said. "In the Juvenile Division, they do try to work out sentences in the hope that these minors can be
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rehabilitated and, hopefully, to stop them continuing in a life of crime."

Their adjudication hearing, which is equivalent to a trial in the adult court, is scheduled to begin Tuesday, Gibbons said.

Attorneys for the 10 defendants could not be reached for comment Wednesday.

According to the Los Angeles Times, the defense lawyers told the court the girls are good students and have no history of violence or criminal behavior. One of the girls won a full athletic scholarship to USC and represented the United States in a track meet in China, her attorney told the court.

Gibbons said the judge ordered that all 10 defendants remain in custody at Los Padrinos Juvenile Detention Center in Downey, where they have been since their arrest Oct. 31.

The 10 charged in the crime - ages 12 to 17 - were captured within minutes of the attack, which left the victims - two 19-year-olds and a 21-year-old - with broken bones, concussions, cuts and bruises.

Two 17-year-old boys from Long Beach were arrested by police in connection with the beating about a week later, but they have yet to be charged.

Police said the criminal investigation, and the search for more suspects, is ongoing.

The victims and neighbors who witnessed the beating said the three young women were attacked as they left a haunted house. It began with what some thought was a sexually suggestive remark from a male, and exploded, the victims said, when they ignored the taunts and tried to walk away.

They described being pelted with lemons and pumpkins, then beaten by a crowd of 20 to 40 people who swarmed around them shouting, "I hate whites" and "F--- whites."

One assailant used a skateboard to knock one of the 19-year-olds unconscious, then hit her as others jumped on her back while she lay in the street.

News of the incident enraged people in the community and across the country, triggering angry exchanges on Web sites and blogs.

Local officials and community leaders denounced the violence, but disagreement over whether the attack was a hate crime divided some within and outside the community.

Gibbons explained Wednesday that the decision to add the charge occurred after the DA's office reviewed extensive police investigations, talked to the victims and consulted with the DA's Hate Crimes office.

The local branch of the NAACP denounced the violence, but added it was concerned that the civil rights of everyone involved be protected.

Naomi Rainey, president of the local chapter, said she attended Wednesday's arraignment to monitor the case on behalf of the civil rights organization.

"The NAACP does not have sufficient investigative data to address (the issue of the hate crime charge) at this time," Rainey said.

"For the allegation of a hate crime to be found, it's my understanding that you have to go to an area specifically to single out a certain group because of their race, sex, religion, ethnicity, whatever," she said.

Doug Otto, a spokesman for the victims and their families, said: "The victims of this unprovoked and vicious attack and their families are grateful that the true nature of these assaults are finally being prosecuted. The victims' serious injuries, both physical and psychological, endure.

"They wish to thank Bixby Knolls residents and witnesses who came to their aid and offered comfort, care and first aid. They also wish to thank the Long Beach Police Department for their ongoing efforts to bring the guilty to justice."
 

L281173

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raerae
Isn't that just plain prejudice though? Not really a stereotype (have to remember, all stereotypes are prejudice, but not all prejudice is a stereotype)?

In order for it to be a stereotype, enough of "Race X" would have to be percieved to be seen as incompetent, in order for the stereotype to have been formed in the first place. As a stereotype is just an oversimplified conception of the behaviors of a group of people.

I think part of it, is because as humans, we tend to identify patterns of behavior. If 10 ducks in a row quack, your not going to expect the 11th duck to suddenly bark like a dog. You expect it to quack.

I do think though, that they tend to get mixed up as being racist, because, typically we tend to know (and use) stereotypes of other races. And only tend to stereotype sub-sets of our own race. It's just part of having limited exposure to other races.

Example (I'll use my own family/expierence):

When I moved into my new place in Long Beach, my Mom was not exaclty, excited. I'm basically the only white chick on a block full of mexicans and blacks. For me, it's not a big deal, 1/2 my friends from when I lived in Santa Barbara were black or hispanic and from lower income areas (I worked in telemarketing, GREAT industry for racial exposure btw). My parents on the other hand, live in mostly a bubble of white upperclass suburbia.

While I was moving stuff into my place, my Neighbors brother came home. How was he dressed? Typical gangster type stereotype look. Baggy clothes, baggy east coast style jacket, couple of gold chains, whatever. He spent several hours out front of her house talking on his cell phone, or with one of his friends who was there, dressed in similar fashion, and occasionally meeting other guys for short conversation.

What was my Moms conclusion? He's probably a drug dealer. Was she wrong for stereotyping him like that? Maybe, maybe not. He is however, a totally cool guy, and he's totally nice. And if he's ever out front of my Neighbors house when I get home, he helps me bring in grocheries and boxes of cat litter to my 2nd floor apartment.

So why did she stereotype him like that? Well, considering he was dressed like any number of our pot smoking gangster rappers that are on MTV, drives a caddy with a bumping system, and portrayed a behavior patterns consistant with what she's seen of dealers on TV, it's not really hard to see why she did it, considering where she is from. Is she being racist?

She wasn't wrong btw. I never told her that though, she's worried enough about me living in LBC. Considering what goes on around where I live.



While I was moving stuff into my place, my Neighbors brother came home. How was he dressed? Typical gangster type stereotype look. Baggy clothes, baggy east coast style jacket, couple of gold chains, whatever. He spent several hours out front of her house talking on his cell phone, or with one of his friends who was there, dressed in similar fashion, and occasionally meeting other guys for short conversation.

What was my Moms conclusion? He's probably a drug dealer. Was she wrong for stereotyping him like that? Maybe, maybe not. He is however, a totally cool guy, and he's totally nice. And if he's ever out front of my Neighbors house when I get home, he helps me bring in grocheries and boxes of cat litter to my 2nd floor apartment.

So why did she stereotype him like that? Well, considering he was dressed like any number of our pot smoking gangster rappers that are on MTV, drives a caddy with a bumping system, and portrayed a behavior patterns consistant with what she's seen of dealers on TV, it's not really hard to see why she did it, considering where she is from. Is she being racist?

Your mom was generalizing. You cannot judge someone on how they are dressed. John Gotti wore Armani suits that were OVER $1000 AND LOOK AT HOW MANY CRIMES HE COMMITTED AND PEOPLE HE KILLED.
 

Indigowaters

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by L281173
Your mom was generalizing. You cannot judge someone on how they are dressed. John Gotti wore Armani suits that were OVER $1000 AND LOOK AT HOW MANY CRIMES HE COMMITTED AND PEOPLE HE KILLED.

I didn't want to have to go there but ex-freakin'-actly! Just because someone is dressed "to the nines", drives a jaguar, and lives in the most exclusive suburb, that shouldn't make them exempt from their actions and it doesn't mean they are not capable of such actions. It's just that there's no explaining that to people who already have blinders on.
 

*Stargazer*

Well-known member
Something that hasn't been addressed yet but is an interesting point... (note my use of "you" is in the general sense)

I did not choose my skin tone, nor did anyone else. But if you choose to act, dress, talk, write etc. in a certain manner that has connotations, ie you dress like a "gangsta" should you be suprised if people tend to assume things about you based on your appearance?

And how responsible are you, as a member of a certain community, to combat sterotypes as loudly as you can or cease complaining about being stereotyped?

And honestly, I don't know why anyone would be shocked at the generalization that in the Middle East many people act violently to resolve their differences. Its not like its an unfounded statement. You could have said the same thing about the factions of the Irish up until recently. Or the Basques still.



*I'm adding this to clarify my point. I'm not saying that it is right or wrong to stereotype, I'm approaching this subject from the perspective of wondering if there are two aspects of problems caused by stereotyping. I don't know if that even makes sense. Words are not my friends sometimes LOL
 

sharyn

Well-known member
While I agree that you cannot judge over people by the amount of money they make, I believe that things like clothing/make up etc. are choosen and tell a lot about the one who wears them. I wouldnt take bright fuschia lipstick, blue eyeshadow and a mini dress when I wanted to look like a noun. I choose how I look and with my look I want to repesent a certain image...

No I am not saying young man in baggy pants all want to look like dealers.

*edit
Ladybug, thats just what I wanted to say but you were about 20 seconds faster
smiles.gif
 

Indigowaters

Well-known member
Ok. So Raerae, if I read the story above and made a joke about it and said, "Those girls got what they deserved, being in the wrong neighborhood at night", how would you take that? That's a horrible incident that I wouldn't wish on anyone of any color. But the problem is instead of understanding, you're trying to give examples of where someone of your race has been discriminated against while shutting down the arguements of someone else describing what has happened to them. So I can well understand Amoona's frustration if you are making these kind of jokes. Not so funny now is it?
 

amoona

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharyn
Satiric jokes about something and laughing/really finding it funny are two different things. this has been said a couple of times in this thread!

And like I have said in this thread, that's a pretty sick and twisted sense of humor.
 

d_flawless

Well-known member
As Indigowaters mentioned, "Stereotypes exist because people say they're true then pass it along as fact."

this is the one thing i'm saying about stereotypes. i completely agree.
this thread is pety though, it's like beating a dead horse. this is a make up forum, and though many of us are educated and we have the capacity to have a mature discussion without argument, it's better to let it go.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indigowaters
You probably got that look (which by the way is given by women of all colors when they sense someone is not being themselves), because you weren't being yourself. People can see right through someone who's trying to approach them on their "level" (which probably meant you were trying to speak "like a black person" - which I believe is total crap when people think we can't speak with intelligence and eloquence), by saying you would like to "kick it" with them. That term went out with the 90's and that's not to attack you, I'm just telling you where that look came from realisticly. I've had plenty of encounters with white people that weren't all that positive, yet I don't think everyone is going to treat me the same.

Right yes I approached them speaking ebonics. I was like, "What up my ---, wanna get some 40's and smoke some stick icky?!?!"

Wanna know what color the first guy i EVER kissed was? Black.

Please dont presume to judge me based on who my parents are. While my parents may be well off. I pay all my bills. I moved into the ghetto because THATS ALL I COULD PAY FOR. I was just barely on speaking terms with my parents back when I moved, and wasn't even talking with my dad at the time. He didn't even help me move in, my Mom drove up and the two of us unloaded my things.

When I move in the black family nextdoor came out and watched me and my mom move in. Wanna know what I did? I walked up and said Hi, and introduced myself, and shook their hands. That family is still the only family I really know in LBC, and I still party with them. And you know what? I still get the look when someone I dont know comes over and I meet them the first time. Believe what you want, but I'm not being fake, i'm not speaking down. And I didn't walk up to them and ask if I could Kick It, regardless if that word went out in the 90's, i use it today cuz i like it. I also say HELLA and i'm not from the Bay.

Way to judge me.
 

amoona

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharyn
While I agree that you cannot judge over people by the amount of money they make, I believe that things like clothing/make up etc. are choosen and tell a lot about the one who wears them. I wouldnt take bright fuschia lipstick, blue eyeshadow and a mini dress when I wanted to look like a noun. I choose how I look and with my look I want to repesent a certain image...

And what if you are stereotyped racially? That's the issue that started this. Raerae racially stereotyped Middle Eastern people. Like it was said before we didn't choose to be Middle Eastern.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by L281173
John Gotti wore Armani suits that were OVER $1000 AND LOOK AT HOW MANY CRIMES HE COMMITTED AND PEOPLE HE KILLED.

Actually he fits the typical Italian Mobster stereotype.

Ever seen Growing up Gotti? His kids look like 3 stereotypical itallian rich kids.

So it applies here too. Just a diff stereotype.
 

Indigowaters

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raerae
Right yes I approached them speaking ebonics. I was like, "What up my ----, wanna get some 40's and smoke some stick icky?!?!"

Way to judge me.


That word wasn't even called for. Joke or no joke. And seeing as you added in the 40's and sticky icky only amplifies your ignorance about my culture, satire, sarcasm or whatever.

I wanted to get this reaction because this is how Amoona feels and yet you still don't get it.
fool.gif
*Dead horse dead* X|
 

sharyn

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by amoona
And what if you are stereotyped racially? That's the issue that started this. Raerae racially stereotyped Middle Eastern people. Like it was said before we didn't choose to be Middle Eastern.

It is true that she stereotyped people in middle east- I still dont think it is the same as saying "I hate (Insert race, ethnicity, whatever)". Stereotypes are exaggerations of what people see every day. They dont pop up in our heads without any reason.

If anybody wants to bring up "and what if she said that about your nation?" here's my answer: everything possibe has already been said about my nation. And I dont cry myself to sleep because of it. Because I know it is not the ultimate truth and nobody is only a stereotype. some stereotypes are fitting for some people, but no one really is only that.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indigowaters
Ok. So Raerae, if I read the story above and made a joke about it and said, "Those girls got what they deserved, being in the wrong neighborhood at night", how would you take that?

Actually I used that article as an example of why you dont go into certain neighborhoods in Long Beach if your not a certain race. And actually, they were in a white neighborhood, just on the edge of it. Bixby Knolls borders a very poor Black section of town.
 

amoona

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharyn
It is true that she stereotyped people in middle east- I still dont think it is the same as saying "I hate (Insert race, ethnicity, whatever)". Stereotypes are exaggerations of what people see every day. They dont pop up in our heads without any reason.

If anybody wants to bring up "and what if she said that about your nation?" here's my answer: everything possibe has already been said about my nation. And I dont cry myself to sleep because of it. Because I know it is not the ultimate truth and nobody is only a stereotype. some stereotypes are fitting for some people, but no one really is only that.


Um yes it is true. And then when I commented about it she PMed me saying:

"How is it my fault you guys got yourself steriotyped that way? Stop blowing each other up and people wont think that anymore."

Which is why I think she's ignorant about the Middle East.

Now if you don't care what stereotypes people make about your country then that's your business. I on the other hand do, especially in this day and time. No I can't change the entire world's opinion but when someone makes a comment on a forum that I am a part of I will make it known that I am offended by it.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that just because you don't say "I hate ..." doesn't mean you're not promoting hate. I also didn't say she hates Middle Eastern people, I said I think she's racist towards Middle Eastern people based upon the comments she's sent me. That's her ignorance, which is why I keep refering to it as ignorance and not hate.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indigowaters
That word wasn't even called for. Joke or no joke. And seeing as you added in the 40's and sticky icky only amplifies your ignorance about my culture, satire, sarcasm or whatever.

I wanted to get this reaction because this is how Amoona feels and yet you still don't get it.
fool.gif
*Dead horse dead* X|


Actually, i used that as an extremly sarcastic. But hey, as long as Snoop Dogg is the current spokesman for the Black Community, what did you expect?

And I admit there is a whole lot I dont know about black culture. While I might party with my neighbors every few months, I dont live it on a daily basis. Which is why I'm saying it's impossible to totally understand a diff culture.
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
It's really important to remember that when we're typing on our end, there's a real person reading on the other end of the message.
Preview the post, read it, and take a moment or two, when in moments of impassioned speech, to reevaluate what is being said.
It's easy to lose sight of the original point when discussing something so heated and close to home, but it's important to maintain an air of civility and sensitivity for fellow members and silent lurkers.
 
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