Are Stereotypes Racist?

[ilovexnerdsx]

i also believe there's a difference in realizing your flaws. say, if you grew up with racist parents and went to a private school with no blacks (this is completely hypothetical, i doubt this would happen), then when you encounter a black person you would react in the way you've been taught. but SURELY somewhere in there, a thought process goes on, asking yourself "is this right?" that's where the judgement lies. though it still doesnt make it RIGHT to be racist against anyone, there's a huge difference between doing it "just because," and doing it while knowing its wrong.

the more i try to clarify this i think the worst it turns out. my point is, there's a difference, and when you recognize the difference, you can work to change it.

 

[amoona]

Raerae you never sent me any PM of the sort. The PM you sent me was insulting and very offensive. It was far from a joke. And yes making that type of a joke does make you ignorant. Obviously you don't get that! What you made wasn't a joke, it was an offensive stereotype.

And I'm not talking about making fun of the government I'm talking about actually making fun of the soldiers over there dieing. Would you find that funny? Could you sit and laugh about that? "Oh haha another American soldier got killed today. HOW HILARIOUS!!!" Not too funny is it?

When I say you're being ignorant I mean it, because you think it's funny that the country has become chatoic and people are killing each other? You think it's funny that everyday 100 Iraqis are dieing? That's a pretty sick and twisted humor.

If you studying Middle Eastern politics like you all of a sudden claim you have then you would know that things like this are no laughing matter.

And I don't remember saying "American's are ignorant". I commented on you being ignorant about the Middle East and I still stand by that. If you can make a joke like that and then send me insulting PMs continuing your so-called joke then I don't see how you could be knowledged in the subject. To me you're ignorant, you're also racist towards Middle Eastern people. I have the one on one experience with you to back that thought up. Just because you're ignorant and racist towards Middle Eastern people doesn't mean all Americans are. I never said that. My cousin's wife isn't, neither is my half-white born again Christian cousin, or her white husband. Neither are my American born and raised black neighbors.

 

[amoona]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Shimmer - To give a better example of what I'm trying to say I'm going to use the Movie, "Remember the Titans." In that movie, I don't think you can call the white kids at the begining, "ignorant" for disliking the blacks. Yes they were racist, but they were racist because thats all they had been taught. When the black kids came to the team, the captain took the opportunity to change his opinion on blacks once he had the chance to interact with them on a real level. And became best friends with the other black captain. The other white kid who was the captain previous best friend, choose to not get along with the blacks, because they were black. He is ignorant, because he had the opportunity to form his own opinion, and chose not too. That is ignorance.

ig·no·rance
–noun the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.

Yes that is ignorant.

 

[sharyn]

I dont find Raerae racist in a way that she says it is good that violence and death happens to middle eastern people. She says it happens. But thats just my opinion.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark I think most people today have had opportunities to 'experience' other races and see negative and positive in them enough that ignorance isn't an excuse, unless you choose to be ignorant. The Internet, the news, TV (though lacking in diversity) has shown a lot of positive folks who are a minority of some kind

I dont think thats enough.

It's like you try to teach your kids from your own mistakes. But the reality is, most of us, dont learn until we make the mistake for ourselves.

All the TV/News/Internet etc is, is information. But I think most white people would have a really hard time understanding a black family w/out hanging out with them on a regular basis.

Yes blacks n whites are both human, but were SOOOOO different culturally. As much as I've learned from hanging out with my neighbors, I hope they have learned a lot from me. If you dont think I got, "the look" (aka what does this white girl want) from some of the black women, when I walked up to them on Halloween night and asked if I could kick it with them, because they were the only people I knew in town, your crazy.

I challenge anyone here who hasn't done it, to make a real attempt at getting to know a neighbor of a different race on a more than superficial level. Saying hi and being polite to them when your forced to talk to them doesn't count. If you haven't had dinner with them, partied with them, or just hung out on a regular basis for no aparent reason, your not friends. Your merely just another polite stranger.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoona ig·no·rance –noun the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc. Yes that is ignorant.

Way to totally miss the point as usual.

 

[ilovexnerdsx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Way to totally miss the point as usual.

that was an ignorant statement.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae I dont think thats enough. It's like you try to teach your kids from your own mistakes. But the reality is, most of us, dont learn until we make the mistake for ourselves. All the TV/News/Internet etc is, is information. But I think most white people would have a really hard time understanding a black family w/out hanging out with them on a regular basis. Yes blacks n whites are both human, but were SOOOOO different culturally. As much as I've learned from hanging out with my neighbors, I hope they have learned a lot from me. If you dont think I got, "the look" (aka what does this white girl want) from some of the black women, when I walked up to them on Halloween night and asked if I could kick it with them, because they were the only people I knew in town, your crazy. I challenge anyone here who hasn't done it, to make a real attempt at getting to know a neighbor of a different race on a more than superficial level. Saying hi and being polite to them when your forced to talk to them doesn't count. If you haven't had dinner with them, partied with them, or just hung out on a regular basis for no aparent reason, your not friends. Your merely just another polite stranger.

You can also actively engage these folks online like on message boards. IMO, a lot of the stereotypes we have are from the media. If you grew up in a town of all white people, where are you getting that prejudice?

I don't think you have to know the ins and outs of every race/nationality to not be racist. I didn't need to know a Middle Easterner (I didn't know any until college, come to think of it) to know they weren't all a part of terrorist organizations

 

[Shimmer]

Guys please remember to discuss the issue at hand, not to attack each other.
The discussion itself, and posts relevant to it, are quite enlightening.
Personal attacks aren't helpful, and will cause the thread to be locked. I would rather keep it open.

Thanks.

 

[amoona]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharyn I dont find Raerae racist in a way that she says it is good that violence and death happens to middle eastern people. She says it happens. But thats just my opinion.

That's because chances are you didn't get to see her original comment which started this thread. You also didn't have her PMing you with even more racist comments. She claims she said her original comment as a joke yet she continued on to insult Middle Eastern people in a private message. How long does her joke last ... her whole life?

 

[sharyn]

If you want people to listen, keep your cool and choose your words carefully. An insult takes a lot of power away from a good point.

*edit
this referes to shimmers last post

 

[sharyn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoona That's because chances are you didn't get to see her original comment which started this thread. You also didn't have her PMing you with even more racist comments. She claims she said her original comment as a joke yet she continued on to insult Middle Eastern people in a private message. How long does her joke last ... her whole life?

My statement was about the first comment she made in the Dog Fur thread. I have not read her PM and and I have not read the second post that was censored by a mod and therefor I cannot say anything about it.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoona Raerae you never sent me any PM of the sort. The PM you sent me was insulting and very offensive. It was far from a joke. And yes making that type of a joke does make you ignorant. Obviously you don't get that! What you made wasn't a joke, it was an offensive stereotype.

Everything anyone sends you if it involves the Mid East is insulting, I think we've already established that.

The PM you ignored:

Thats the point of a steriotype. It's a blanket statement (usually unfairly) representing a large group of people based on the actions of the most vocal (typically a minority segment of the population).

It has nothing to do with my education on the subject. Your EQUALLY unfairly steriotyping myself (and other members on this board) by believing that were all uneducated on the topic. An opinion often held by people such as yourself. Ooh, there is another steriotype.

Manoutchehr M. Eskandari-Qajar (Kadjar)
http://www.qajarpages.org/eskandari.html
last photo on the bottom.

Know who that guy is? He was my college political science teacher. Considering I was taking his class when 9/11 happened, and his family history is signifigantly more involved in the political history of the region than yours is (end ever will be), I think I have a signifigantly better grasp on the realities of whats happening and why, than your typical American. Afterall were all uneducated on the subject right?

So please, don't presume that because I make a few off color remarks about the region that I'm not educated on the topic.

Sometimes you need to look at yourself and laugh. You're all a bit too serious about the whole business of he said she said.

Quote:

And I'm not talking about making fun of the government I'm talking about actually making fun of the soldiers over there dieing. Would you find that funny? Could you sit and laugh about that? "Oh haha another American soldier got killed today. HOW HILARIOUS!!!" Not too funny is it?

Again, sometimes you have to point out the ugly things in life for people to realise how ugly they are. Satire can be a very serious matter as well. Sometimes you have to really insult/burn someone so they realise how silly their actions are, for them to change. Like someone mentioned earlier, hold up a mirror to themselves.

Quote:

When I say you're being ignorant I mean it, because you think it's funny that the country has become chatoic and people are killing each other? You think it's funny that everyday 100 Iraqis are dieing? That's a pretty sick and twisted humor.

I never said that someone dying was funny. I do however thing it's pretty rediculous that people in the region think the answer to most of the problems in the region is to kill somebody (George Bush included FYI)

Quote:

If you studying Middle Eastern politics like you all of a sudden claim you have then you would know that things like this are no laughing matter. And I don't remember saying "American's are ignorant". I commented on you being ignorant about the Middle East and I still stand by that. If you can make a joke like that and then send me insulting PMs continuing your so-called joke then I don't see how you could be knowledged in the subject. To me you're ignorant, you're also racist towards Middle Eastern people. I have the one on one experience with you to back that thought up. Just because you're ignorant and racist towards Middle Eastern people doesn't mean all Americans are. I never said that. My cousin's wife isn't, neither is my half-white born again Christian cousin, or her white husband. Neither are my American born and raised black neighbors.

Actually i never specifically mentioned Ethnic Middle Easterners in my original joke, I just said, "people." This includes Isralies who seem to have the same mentality, as well as the American Govt. You just assumed I mean't arabic people since I'm an ignorant American. I only narrowed it later to make it a bit more inflamatory to you because you took it so personally. Which I found amusing.

And yes, it's obvious I hate Arabic people because I think "blowing people up" in general is a stupid idea. How novel of me.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilovexnerdsx that was an ignorant statement.

Her reply was equally pointless and added nothing of value. Sometimes you have to communicate with people on their own level.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Quote:

Again, sometimes you have to point out the ugly things in life for people to realise how ugly they are. Satire can be a very serious matter as well. Sometimes you have to really insult/burn someone so they realise how silly their actions are, for them to change. Like someone mentioned earlier, hold up a mirror to themselves.

Not to egg on the conversation (which really needs to stop; Shimmer already posted a bit up there), but things come off so differently online from a stranger. It's hard to tell if someone is being satirical or not, because none of us really know you, vs. if Jon Stewart/The Daily Show or The Colbert Report makes a similar joke.

 

[L281173]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark I think most stereotypes are meant to be hurtful, but there are well-meaning ones that are hurtful. For instance (I keep referrring to Asians, because I am one), Asians are stereotyped to be good workers, smart, and thin. The good worker thing- I haven't experienced, but I've heard some convincing tales from friends that they're expected to perform better than their peers because of the stereotype. Smart- I've already covered that. I was a good student, but it sometimes felt like people were putting less value on my hardwork. Maybe I'm being nitpicky, though. The thin thing can help contribute to ED. It's obviously not the only cause of the ED, but I've known many girls who think because they're Asian they must be a size 2.

In this case, I would not consider the above statement stereotypes, but enthocenturism. Enthocenturism are often made due to cultural differences that are often observed. It can be said that often Asians are smart because their cultures emphasize a strong ethic toward education. Also in many Asian cultures, one is judged harshly if they are shiftless or lazy. In the Asian culture, their diets are not as fat filled as the American diet and therefore, the peoples tend to be thinner in size and have fewer health problems.

Stereotypes are generalizations made about an entire group while ethnocenturisms are moreso based upon observation and known knowledge about the culture being spoken about.

 

[Indigowaters]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Yes blacks n whites are both human, but were SOOOOO different culturally. As much as I've learned from hanging out with my neighbors, I hope they have learned a lot from me. If you dont think I got, "the look" (aka what does this white girl want) from some of the black women, when I walked up to them on Halloween night and asked if I could kick it with them, because they were the only people I knew in town, your crazy.

You probably got that look (which by the way is given by women of all colors when they sense someone is not being themselves), because you weren't being yourself. People can see right through someone who's trying to approach them on their "level" (which probably meant you were trying to speak "like a black person" - which I believe is total crap when people think we can't speak with intelligence and eloquence), by saying you would like to "kick it" with them. That term went out with the 90's and that's not to attack you, I'm just telling you where that look came from realisticly. I've had plenty of encounters with white people that weren't all that positive, yet I don't think everyone is going to treat me the same.

When I was 5 a little white girl I was playing with came up to me and told me that she couldn't play with me anymore. When I asked why, she said "Because you're black". Now, seeing as we lived in the same neighborhood (which was not the ghetto but not the suburbs, but now a part of town considered historical), this wasn't based on class or her parents thinking they were financially better off than we were. It was based on skin color and a preconceived notion of how I would influence their daughter. While I'm sure that incident was troubling to me, I didn't count out other white people and say "They're all like that".

 

[L281173]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indigowaters Shimmer - I feel what you're trying to say but when I'm stereotyped by my color and nothing else I DO CARE. In the past month alone I have gotten a ticket which started with a cop following me for no reason at all. Hell, (excuse me) I was driving 5 miles below the speed limit, in my own car (a sports car) and minding my own business. Why was I the one to be randomly picked out to follow and stopped for nothing? Hmm... And guess what the first question was? "Is this your car?". I wanted to say "Who in the hell's car is it supposed to be?". But of course he could just write me off as being confrontational and say he thought my cellphone was a gun and well, that's a whole other thread. And like I said that hasn't been the only instance this month. The only reason I got a ticket was because my tag was expired and he couldn't see that from the two lanes he pulled over from. I had one follow me into my own neighborhood and he couldn't stop me for any reason so he moved on. That's why I care.

I would definitely report the entire incident to the local Civilian Complaint Review Board and I would also contact my nearest chapter of the Urban League. You were clearly profiled. I would make charges against the officer for racial profiling.

 

[amoona]

See what people don't see to be aware of is that Raerae esclated this issue when she insisted on PMing me and sending me even more racist remarks. Originally all I did was state that I felt her joke was offensive and in poor taste. I didn't attack her or anything of the sort. She decided she wanted to comment back and it was something that Shimmer felt she needed to censor. THEN Raerae decided to start sending me PMs to try and actually start a fight out of it. Through her PM I realized she holds racist stereotypes and prejustice towards people of the Middle East. She decided to further escalte this by starting a thread all about it.

Raerae I also never assumed you ment "arabic" people. If you took a Middle Eastern studies course I'm surprised you don't know we're Arabs and Arabic is the language we speak, not who we are. That is why I have continued to refer you to being offensive to Middle Eastern people, never did I specify a country until you said your joke was meant to make light of the situations in Iraq.

I don't get you ... you said you were making a joke about the situation in Iraq by commenting about the bombings there. Then you say you didn't say it was funny that people are dieing?! Why do you think I was so offended by your so-called joke? I don't think it's funny to make light of people's deaths. If you can't understand the TRUE situation in the Middle East then don't attempt to make jokes about them.

 

[amoona]

Also, again you think I'm saying "ignorant Americas" when I haven't been saying that. I'm singling you out. I don't think you're ignorant because you're America, you're ignorant because you want to be.