illegal immigration.

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kimmy

Well-known member
okay, i don't want this to turn into some big immigrant bashing session. remember that it is more than likely that your ancestors immigrated to where you are now
winks.gif
i just want to know some other people's opinions on this.

what are your views on illegal immigration? if and when illegal immigrants are caught, should they be punished? if yes, then how and to what extent? do you believe that a country's borders should be air tight?
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
Do some research on "Operation Wetback".

That said...
illegal immigration is just that...ILLEGAL.
 

kimmy

Well-known member
my dad told me about that a while ago, and it's mystifying to me how in the 1950's we deported so many illegals, but it seems like today we don't deport any.
 

kimmy

Well-known member
yeah, that's true. but i also find it interesting that the problem is much more taxing on the economy and general welfare of the US now than it was then...but we're more lax?
 

Hawkeye

Well-known member
Wow this is a hard question but

Illegal Immegration is as Shimmer said, Illegal but also getting to the point where it is insanity. Granted-that if they should all be deported and back wherever they are our economy will collapse because most americans will not do whatever the illigal aliens do - we have to remember what is happening.

There are 12 million illigal immigrants in the US right now. That is quickly increasing 500,000 a year.

So anyway-
1) They want american rights. Seriously, the illegal aliens want american rights. They aren't American! They aren't protected under our constituation.
2) When they get hurt they go to the ER-no problem with that they need to get helped-but if they don't have the money...guess who foots the bill?
American Taxpayers.
3) American Taxpayers have to pay taxes. Illigal Aliens-they owe nothing to the IRS. Why? Because they aren't AMERICANS
4) For every dollar an illigal alien from Mexico sends to Mexico to help his/her family is one more dollar the Mexican government doesn't have to spend on services to help the family. How much is that? 15 billion.
5) We have had over 25 million illigal immigrants over the past 16 years.
6) The drug wars at or around crossing the boarder still rage violently.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/ar...8/28border.htm
7) The illigal aliens are taking away jobs for Americans
8) The Illigal aliens are doing this by being willing to work for a lot cheaper
NOW that being said-
Those people that are smuggling people into this country those people being smuggled in are also DYING. A trucker recently was convicted of 19 illigal alien deaths.
The smuggling kills people, the "drug wars" kill people and the economy is ultimately being destroyed.
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
well. yeah. because they're just here trying to make better lives for themselves. They can't be bothered with redtape, etc.
And, if tax dollars go to their health care, we have to pay higher insurance premiums because they don't insure their vehicles, and WIC and Welfare are being used on them...well, it's okay because that's what they're there for right?


I'm sure I just offended the piss out of SOMEONE reading that, and I really don't care.
Be here legally? I don't give a flying rat's ruckus what they do...work on a farm or as a CEO of a fortune 500 company. I don't care. Be here ILLEGALLY?
Go home, go through (yes it's ridiculously long) process and restart. The process is there for a REASON.
 

MiCHiE

Well-known member
I don't want to step on toes, but I feel like today's views on immigration are so lax and racial that it's not even funny. I always think of this one lady who visited the spa where I used to work and she made a comment about how we should all learn Spanish because we have so many Spanish-speaking immigrants and my co-worker just looked at her like, "Bitch, please
th_rolleye0014.gif
!" And, she basically looked at her because, as she later told me, she felt there was so much compassion for people who are illegally coming here and black people, who were dragged here and poor white people still get the shaft. Slaves were not even allowed to speak their language, but I digress.....I know some people really feel like illegal immigrants should be allowed to stay here because they do work us laid back Americans won't do. But, shit, who did those jobs before these people took them? And, how long do you think they'll continue to do them until they move up the ranks?
 

Hawkeye

Well-known member
Laid back americans? LOL I think you mean lazy. We're a bunch of lazy PC minded freaks. Seriously do not get me started on PC. It's the most useless BS EVAH

You are absolutely right-they wont be doing these jobs for long-especially with this illigal immigration movement that they are "americans" BS. This is a very dangerous movement-and it is because no one has taken a stand against it that our economy will eventually crumble. That $15 Billion dollars-thats to boost the MEXICAN economy-thats $15 Billion we COULD be using to boost OUR OWN economy

ALREADY-the American dollar is valued below the Euro and its mainly because (OK WE ARE NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE WAR) nobody in congress can get their act together fiscally! So we're losing value. But it's not like we can get more money in our economy because the illigal aliens keep taking it OUT of our economy and fueling Mexico's (respectively-other economies as well but we're just looking at the border right now).

So the US is essentially providing a huge feat-we are providing our own economy and another economy!

I mean I am all for people who go through the process and become immagrants here LEGALLY. More power to them! I want them to come to America-but not ILLIGALLY.

Anyway-I was searching on boortz.com and came across this letter to an editor in North Carolina http://boortz.com/nuze/200605/05152006.html
To the Editor:
Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration. Certain people are angry that the U.S. might protect its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and once here, to stay indefinitely.
Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests.
Let's say I break into your house. Let's say that when you discover me in your home you insist that I leave. But, I say, "I've made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors: I've done all the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest ... except for that part where I broke into your house.
"According to the protestors, not only must you let me stay, you must add me to your family's insurance plan and provide other benefits for me and my family. My husband will do your yard work because he too is hard-working and honest ... except for that breaking in thing.
"If you try to call the police or force me out I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my right to be here. It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself. I'm hard-working and honest .... ummmmm .... except for that breaking in thing.
"Besides. What a deal it is for me! I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of selfishness, prejudice and being anti-housebreaker!
Did I miss anything? Does this sound reasonable to you? If it does, grab a sign and go picket something. If this sounds insane to you call your senators and enlighten them because they are stumbling in the darkness right now and really need your help.
(Name? _______________)
 

d_flawless

Well-known member
i think the reason it's such a controversy is because many mexicans (and mexican-americans alike, who have lived here in america just as long, if not longer, than some of the families who immigrated from europe) actually consider places like california and texas their home, too, because to them, the war was unfairly won.
history aside, go to another country besides the us. with the exception of many european countries, and some in africa, etc., in the US it's so much easier to live. i guess it's a quick fix of sorts, but immigration here seems to be the only way to feed their families and send their children to school.
i do support immigration here, and in the most legal way, if possible. after all, that's how most of us ended up here in the first place. but i'm not gonna lie in saying that most of the people who say they don't support "illegal" immigration actually don't support the idea of immigration at all. at least that's the case here in the bay area, where literally 50% of the population (or damn near it) are only spanish-speaking, immigrant or not. their own discrimination and racism fuels their beliefs. regardless, they should learn to embrace it, legally of course, because latinos are the highest-increasing number in population here in the states, and clearly contribute numbers to society and the economy.
on another note, i do think that if you're gonna live here, you're gonna pay taxes to use the services provided to americans. only then and after legal immigration is completed, as under our constitution one must be a citizen to have the right, should one be able to vote. the thing i don't get though is that, how can u work here and NOT pay taxes? does it not just come out automatically?
and for the record, i don't think WIC and welfare, other social programs, etc. are provided to non-citizens. or if they are, it's not as common as it may seem. not to be a bitch, but the people that i've known to be on welfare are in fact able-to-work americans
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by d_flawless
i think the reason it's such a controversy is because many mexicans (and mexican-americans alike, who have lived here in america just as long, if not longer, than some of the families who immigrated from europe) actually consider places like california and texas their home, too, because to them, the war was unfairly won.

UNFAIRLY WON????
Holy Goddamn Shit.
The Alamo? Goliad? Have these people never heard a fucking bit of that? Have they never heard of the slaughters by the Mexican Army? Texas (I don't know or care about California, really) WON its independence. Sam Houston led the Texan Army to victory at San Jacinto with a force that was a fragment of the manpower Santa Anna had, and poorly trained in comparison.

Unfairly won?
Hardly.



ok, return to topic. ^.^


oh, and yes, those services ARE provided to non-citizens because when they birth a child in the United States of America, that CHILD is born a United States citizen, and as such is able to receive all benefits and program available to citizens.
Medicaid, WIC, TANF, Welfare, EBT, whatever, it's all available to the child, regardless of the parents' status.
 

Kiseki

Well-known member
First, I am not American, I'm Portuguese and Portugal too is facing enormous problems due to illegal immigration.

We are been flooded with Brazilian and Eastern European illegal immigrants who are taking over some very specific areas of the job market. Mostly retail and restaurants. However, since many of them are here illegally, employers also pay lower wages and these people will subject to it, because like Mexicans in the USA a great part of their earnings is sent to their famillies.

What worries me though is that immigrants are again taking on the jobs that Portuguese aren't too keen on taking, because of bad hours and bad wages and for those Portuguese who do take those jobs, the wages will never be higher because the employers don't want to pay taxes and Social Security.

Immigration laws exist for a reason, I don't think Portugal has so many resources for such a growing work force (whether legal or not) and it's also undermining the economy.

This has nothing to do with race, people will hop on the race bandwagon clearly because they have few other arguments. Yes, slavery was unfair, yes many of today's workforces owe their structure to a strong immigrant workforce, but these shouldn't be excuses to keep closing eyes to illegal aliens, we are not doing them a favor allowing them to stay here without any kind of rights and subjecting them to very poor living and working conditions.

It's just my two cents...
 

Hawkeye

Well-known member
The US Taxpayers are paying for illigal aliens to send their children to school. The US taxpayers are paying these people to go on welfare etc.
Yes, it can happen. and Yes, you can evade taxes very easily many of the illigal immigrants aren't even noted on the paychecks. It's more like a personal handed paycheck.
 

Beauty Mark

Well-known member
I don't think illegals are necessarily taking jobs the legals want. They work pretty shitty jobs, honestly.

With that said, as liberal as I am, I'm completely against illegals, unless a country becomes like Nazi Germany and they should only be granted refugee status until the country becomes not so horrible. For friends who've desperately tried to come to the country and failed somehow, it pisses them off because an illegal is like someone who cuts in front of you in line at a store. It's not fair.

Illegals should be sent back to their home country and possibly charged if they illegally used welfare services while here.

Under no circumstances should we be forced to learn Spanish. It is a useful skill, but the majority of people know and use English. It's frickin' disrespectful and lazy of immigrants to expect a country to adapt to them. Besides my own annoyance, it also has to with what's best for the country. What happens if there's a larger wave of immigrants from China? Do we decide that Chinese should be forced upon people? What about Russian? Etc. It's simply impractical. If I were to move to France, Japan, Spain, Italy, etc., I'd have to learn the language. A friend of mine doesn't think that immigrants should be forced to learn English (I disagree- I think it's ultimately for their own good), but they also shouldn't expect people to bow down to them or move up in the work force.

I'm for legal immigration and work permits, but I'm not for people sneaking into the country. Perhaps I'm biased, since I am in the US, but it really irks me that illegal immigrants may be given citizenship.
 

kimmy

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbeabitch
The US Taxpayers are paying for illigal aliens to send their children to school. The US taxpayers are paying these people to go on welfare etc.
Yes, it can happen. and Yes, you can evade taxes very easily many of the illigal immigrants aren't even noted on the paychecks. It's more like a personal handed paycheck.


my mom works for the welfare department, and it's sickening to hear what some of these immigrants are having done with our tax money. it's even more sickening that to work for the welfare department, you must be bilingual because 90% of the people who come in asking for money don't speak the native language.

former Colorado governer Richard Lamm sees illegal immigration as a key ingredient to the demise of the United States. a little brain food for you fine ladies and gentlemen to mull over:

"First, to destroy America, turn America into a bilingual or multi-lingual and bicultural country. History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be bilingual. The historic alscholar, Seymour Lipset, put it this way: The histories of bilingual and bi-cultural societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy.' Canada, Belgium, Malaysia, and Lebanon all face crises of national existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France faces difficulties with Basques, Bretons, and Corsicans.
Invent 'multiculturalism' and encourage immigrants to maintain their culture. I would make it an article of belief that all cultures are equal. That there are no cultural differences. I would make it an article of faith that the Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due solely to prejudice and discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out of bounds.
We could make the United States an 'Hispanic Quebec' without much effort. The key is to celebrate diversity rather than unity. As Benjamin Schwarz said in the Atlantic Monthly recently: ' The apparent success of our own multiethnic and multicultural experiment might have been achieved not by tolerance but by hegemony. Without the dominance that once dictated ethnocentricity and what it meant to be an American, we are left with only tolerance and pluralism to hold us together. I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own language and culture. I would replace the melting pot metaphor with the salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have various cultural subgroups living in America enforcing their differences rather than emphasizing their similarities as Americans.
Fourth, I would make our fastest growing demographic group the least educated. I would add a second underclass, unassimilated, undereducated, and antagonistic to our population. I would have this second underclass have a 50% dropout rate from high school.
My fifth point for destroying America would be to get big foundations and business to give these efforts lots of money. I would invest in ethnic identity, and I would establish the cult of 'Victimology.' I would get all minorities to think that their lack of success was the fault of the majority. I would start a grievance industry blaming all minority failure on the majority population.
My sixth plan for America's downfall would include dual citizenship, and promote divided loyalties. I would celebrate diversity over unity. I would stress differences rather than similarities. Diverse people worldwide are mostly engaged in hating each other - that is, when they are not killing each other. A diverse, peaceful, or stable society is against historical precedent. People undervalue the unity it takes to k eep a nation together. Look at the ancient Greeks. The Greeks believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a common language and literature; and they worshipped the same gods. All Greece took part in the Olympic games. A common enemy, Persia, threatened their liberty. Yet all these bonds were not strong enough to overcome two factors: local patriotism and geographical conditions that nurtured political divisions. Greece fell. "E. Pluribus Unum" -- From many, one. In that historical reality, if we put the emphasis on the 'Pluribus'. instead of the 'Unum,' we will balkanize America as surely as Kosovo.
Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits; make it taboo to talk about anything against the cult of 'diversity.' I would find a word similar to 'heretic' in the 16th century - that stopped discussion and paralyzed thinking. Words like 'racist' or 'xenophobe' halt discussion and debate. Having made America a bilingual/bicultural country, having established multi-culturism, having the large foundations fund the doctrine of 'Victimology', I would next make it impossible to enforce our immigration laws. I would develop a mantra: That because immigration has been good for America, it must always be good. I would make every individual immigrant symmetric and ignore the cumulative impact of millions of them.
Lastly, I would censor Victor Hanson Davis's book Mexifornia. His book is dangerous. It exposes the plan to destroy America. If you feel America deserves to be destroyed, don't read that book."

some things to think about..and really consider. this man has plenty of very good points.
 

quandolak

Well-known member
Oh the joys of being so precious that the actual realities of the third world and corrupt incapable goverments are beyond you.

Go to the third world and then maybe you will see that legal immigration is NOT possible for the majority. But the consequences of not immigrating are dire.


Kiseki how is 4.1% immigrant ( of that 99% are legal)population somehow *flooding* your country considering a larger ammount of portugues citizens themselves leave the country annualy than immigrants arrive!!
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
quandolak, I'm sorry, I disagree.
Their govts aren't beyond Americans. Their plights aren't beyond Americans, but at the same time Americans have the right and DUTY to protect the soveriegnty of their own country and their own laws.
It's ILLEGAL for a reason.
 

kimmy

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by quandolak
Oh the joys of being so precious that the actual realities of the third world and corrupt incapable goverments are beyond you.

Go to the third world and then maybe you will see that legal immigration is NOT possible for the majority. But the consequences of not immigrating are dire.


Kiseki how is 4.1% immigrant ( of that 99% are legal)population somehow *flooding* your country considering a larger ammount of portugues citizens themselves leave the country annualy than immigrants arrive!!


if you think back to America's beginnings, we may as well have been a third world country. before the world wars, we were not major players at all on the world stage, our military was so shotty that we ranked behind Romania. America now has the most powerful military in the world and has one of the best economies, we got that way because the American people stood up to the government and forced change. instead of immigrating and imposing ourselves and our problems on other countries, we fixed what was broken in our own country. and no, we were no better off than anyone else, it's just that Americans in that time period were hard working, strong willed people that forced change even though they had very little.

there is strength in numbers, no matter how cliche the saying is, it holds truth. if those 500,000 illegals flooding the American borders every year stayed in Mexico and worked for a change, they could easily alter or overthrow their government. running away from the problem doesn't fix it.

and, legal immigration (to America at least) is well within the reach of any person who really wants it. i know plenty of immigrants who LEGALLY immigrated here from third world countries, countries where they had absolutely no money and lived in grass huts.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
I still think it's totally crazy that just because you cross the border and have a baby, your kid is an America Citizen. Anchor Babies away!

Thats incentive enough for most people to risk traveling hundreds of miles (thousands sometimes depending on where they are from) preggo, in extremely dangerious conditions. Kids are concieved for the sole purpose of being Anchor Babies for a family. And this isn't just Latino families. This is a global problem. There is a booming global business that's sole purpose is to get preggo Mom's into America when they go into Labor. So their child is an American.

Ironically, America is fairly unique in that we grant citizenship soley on birth. If you look at most countries in the world, just being born in a country, doesn't make you a citizen.
 
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