It's not a hate crime because she's white, and it's Halloween "art".

[carandru]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Had it been an Obama like mannequin, the guy would be in jail. But it's okay. She's female. White. And Republican.

I don't believe that had tha been Obama, the treatment would have been different. There was a display that had death harboring over Obama and those people were not arrested. (I'll have to find the link to the article and post it later). True, having death circle above a person is not as strong a statement as a noose, but it still offers the sentiment of death to a candidate. I condone neither.

And honestly, had it been an Obama mannequin, you would have people saying "If this had been a Sarah Palin doll..."

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by carandru I don't believe that had tha been Obama, the treatment would have been different. There was a display that had death harboring over Obama and those people were not arrested. (I'll have to find the link to the article and post it later). True, having death circle above a person is not as strong a statement as a noose, but it still offers the sentiment of death to a candidate. I condone neither. And honestly, had it been an Obama mannequin, you would have people saying "If this had been a Sarah Palin doll..."

If it had been a Palin doll what?
What could they say?

 

[benzito_714]

wow are we really doing this again? comparing who has it harder and who is being attacked in an insensitive, racist, sexist way. either way no candidate should be threatened or treated in such a way where there are 'mock hangings' of them.
i feel that the hangings of obama do incite more of reaction because of the recent history of hangings of Blacks in America. although these acts may have happened decades ago-those who have witnessed them are still very much alive and very much affected by it (unlike hangings during the Salem witch trials). and let's be real the threat of a hanging is still very real for some-no matter what region you are in.
and as for the palin hanging it is indeed insensitive and in poor taste and the person responsible should be punished for it-however i feel that an act that spoke to the vulnerability or the injustices faced by women would have evoked more of a reaction.

 

[aziajs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Hate crimes aren't necessarily race crimes. I think it's a stretch calling it racist, but it's definitely a double standard. The Obama effigy could have been argued that they hated his politics not his skin color but it wouldn't have amounted to anything.

I guess I am confused because you wrote:

"It's not a hate crime because she's white, and it's Halloween "art"."

and

"Had it been an Obama like mannequin, the guy would be in jail.
But it's okay.
She's female.
White.
And Republican."

When I read that it seems that you are taking issue with what happened because of her race. The inference is that there is some racial motivation behind the person's actions. At least that's the way I interpreted it.

Also, you are right. The people who hung the Obama effigy could say that it wasn't racially motivated. One could play devil's advocate and argue that it was about his politics but fact of the matter is that most of us realize that is not the case. And with the deep-seated racism that exists in this country and its history that argument isn't going to hold up.

 

[aziajs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by benzito_714 wow are we really doing this again? comparing who has it harder and who is being attacked in an insensitive, racist, sexist way. either way no candidate should be threatened or treated in such a way where there are 'mock hangings' of them. i feel that the hangings of obama do incite more of reaction because of the recent history of hangings of Blacks in America. although these acts may have happened decades ago-those who have witnessed them are still very much alive and very much affected by it (unlike hangings during the Salem witch trials). and let's be real the threat of a hanging is still very real for some-no matter what region you are in. and as for the palin hanging it is indeed insensitive and in poor taste and the person responsible should be punished for it-however i feel that an act that spoke to the vulnerability or the injustices faced by women would have evoked more of a reaction.

I agree. Actually, there was a black man lynched in Florida just 5 years ago. It's still being done. It is very much a reality. It's not just a thing of the past.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aziajs I guess I am confused because you wrote: "It's not a hate crime because she's white, and it's Halloween "art"." and "Had it been an Obama like mannequin, the guy would be in jail. But it's okay. She's female. White. And Republican." When I read that it seems that you are taking issue with what happened because of her race. The inference is that there is some racial motivation behind the person's actions. At least that's the way I interpreted it. Also, you are right. The people who hung the Obama effigy could say that it wasn't racially motivated. One could play devil's advocate and argue that it was about his politics but fact of the matter is that most of us realize that is not the case. And with the deep-seated racism that exists in this country and its history that argument isn't going to hold up.

I can see how my words were ambiguous.

Were Palin not white there would have been a reaction because she's not white, therefore...regardless of anything else...it's automatically a racially driven hate crime. Take the idea of race out of it, no one reacts.
It's okay because she's white. Her being white mitigates any kind of reaction anyone would have because the only time anyone wants to react is when there's an idea of racism behind a display like that.

 

[carandru]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer If it had been a Palin doll what? What could they say?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer I can see how my words were ambiguous. Were Palin not white there would have been a reaction because she's not white, therefore...regardless of anything else...it's automatically a racially driven hate crime. Take the idea of race out of it, no one reacts. It's okay because she's white. Her being white mitigates any kind of reaction anyone would have because the only time anyone wants to react is when there's an idea of racism behind a display like that.

I feel as if they would have come up with some of the same ideas in your first post. Had this been Sarah Palin, the guy would be arrested. Had this been Sarah Palin, this would have been removed immediately blah blah blah. But nope, freedom of speech kinda works on both sides Halloween Display Offends Some, Causes Stir In Cherokee - News Story - WSB Atlanta . And again, I do not condone any type of imagery that depicts death to a person. Disliking them does not mean they should die.

And after your last post, I think I understand what you are trying to get at here. However, I feel that the "had this been Obama" statement automatically makes one overlook your intent. It puts me more in the mindset that you are trying to say who has been wronged the most. Which, I do not believe was your original intent. (please correct me if I'm wrong). Which I also believe is why this post has kinda turned into a bashing of the sides.


Anyway, I'm getting out of this after this post. I do look forward to reading the responses, though.

 

[florabundance]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Were Palin not white there would have been a reaction because she's not white, therefore...regardless of anything else...it's automatically a racially driven hate crime. Take the idea of race out of it, no one reacts. It's okay because she's white. Her being white mitigates any kind of reaction anyone would have because the only time anyone wants to react is when there's an idea of racism behind a display like that.

But that is a huge assumption, not a fact.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by florabundance But that is a huge assumption, not a fact.

It's also a huge assumption that an Obama effigy would be race driven, or would be acted upon.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by carandru It puts me more in the mindset that you are trying to say who has been wronged the most. Which, I do not believe was your original intent. (please correct me if I'm wrong). Which I also believe is why this post has kinda turned into a bashing of the sides. Anyway, I'm getting out of this after this post. I do look forward to reading the responses, though.

Certainly not.
I don't condone that type of behavior on any side, driven from any aspect.
I believe wholeheartedly in taking people as individuals and relating to them based on their individual merits.

 

[florabundance]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer It's also a huge assumption that an Obama effigy would be race driven, or would be acted upon.

Agreed, but that wasn't the point of the OP, was it? I'm genuinely asking, this thread got me confused

 

[HeavenLeiBlu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Had it been an Obama like mannequin, the guy would be in jail. But it's okay. She's female. White. And Republican.

Actually, something similar happened here (Georgia) with an Obama mannequin; the homeowner was a white, Republican family, and the outcome was not as dramatic. People complained, and the display was altered. The end.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by florabundance Agreed, but that wasn't the point of the OP, was it? I'm genuinely asking, this thread got me confused

The whole point of the OP was simply to get people talking and discussing things.

 

[HeavenLeiBlu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahlia_Rayn This is disgusting! This is a hate crime, and it doesn't matter who the target of the hate crime is. There are far more civilized ways to voice your opinion no matter what your political views are.

Hate, yes. Crime? How so?

 

[TISH1124]

I totally think this joke crossed the line.....Halloween is meant to be a fun holiday for children and most adults. I do not feel the holiday gives people the right to be cruel and malicious in their actions. I think the act was totally disrespectful and quite morbid. I wouldn't care who was hanging from the rope it is uncalled for and completely wrong on so many levels. While watching it on the news I found no humor in the *joke* whatsoever. I wouldn't wish such a prank even on my worst enemy... Lynching is a very sore subject in my house due to the history of it and I certainly wouldn't and don't condone this type of prank in any regards.
Across the board as with all things..Some people just go too far with their words and actions.

The prank was a "HATE CRIME" in my opinion and there is no way to clean it up or make light of it. It was wrong!

 

[MACLovin]

I hate to get into these types of threads, because they can become so heated. But I don't think I would call this a hate crime, per se.

The person who made this display (however immature and stupid it is) did not put it up because she's white, or female, they did it I'm assuming because they don't like who she is or what she stands for, and they were making a "statement". A hate crime is when a victim is directly targeted with violence, harassment, insults, etc. which they didn't really do.

Yes, it is inappropriate and hateful, but I don't think it is a crime. The students who were punished for hanging the Obama effigy were punished by the school or organization they belonged to, not by the law.

and I don't think it can be directly compared to a representation of a black person hanging by a noose, at least in this country because we know what kind of connotations that has.

 

[TISH1124]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MACLovin A hate crime is when a victim is directly targeted with violence, harassment, insults, etc. which they didn't really do.

So you don't think Palin was directly targeted, nor insulted, nor is hanging an act of violence....Hummm, interesting and WOW!

 

[ShugAvery2001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Sorry. Not liking me because I'm "that white bitch" IS racism. It's disliking and identifying an undesirable trait based on skin color (as well as personal distaste).

Is that what the guy who hung the thing said. That he didn't like Palin because he thinks she's a "white bitch"?

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShugAvery2001 Is that what the guy who hung the thing said. That he didn't like Palin because he thinks she's a "white bitch"?

I said "Me" not "Palin".
I was citing a specific example that I encounter on a regular basis.

 

[TISH1124]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer I said "Me" not "Palin". I was citing a specific example that I encounter on a regular basis.

Oh come on Jaime!!! I just called you a B* Not a White one

Stop talking about me in public girl!!!!!

And let me EDIT: Jaime knows I'm only j/k before I get Hate Mail!!!