Middle eastern politics

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by amoona Ok I totally get what you're saying. My boyfriend is Assyrian and it's strange to see how Assyria was split inbetween Iraq and Iran and really how Arab Nationalisim come about.

If every group on earth was given a "sovern nation" there would be no nation on earth.

Personally I wish California could break off from the USA and be it's own country too. When people ask me what nationality I am (I really hate this question by the way, it's so stupid.) I respond with, "I'm Californian."

http://www.dir.ca.gov/chswc/updateca...tecalecon.html

"California is the world’s sixth-largest economy. California accounts for 13% of the nation’s output, which is the largest in the world. California’s economy trails only Japan, Germany, England and France."

 

[amoona]

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Originally Posted by Raerae If every group on earth was given a "sovern nation" there would be no nation on earth.

huh? Either you missed my point or I missed yours because I don't get what you're trying to say in this response.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by amoona it's strange to see how Assyria was split inbetween Iraq and Iran and really how Arab Nationalisim come about.

Your basically saying the line that make up Iraq/Iran should have been drawn differently, becuse they didn't take into consideration the population living there.

All I was saying, was it's impossible to give every group of people who identify as X race or nationality, their own piece of land.

 

[amoona]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Your basically saying the line that make up Iraq/Iran should have been drawn differently, becuse they didn't take into consideration the population living there. All I was saying, was it's impossible to give every group of people who identify as X race or nationality, their own piece of land.

I guess you did miss my point because that's not my point at all. If you go back and read the past comments, lemurian and I were discussing how boarders were drawn up in the Middle East. lemurian said it was relevant in Iraq because the samething happened, I was agreeing with her.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by amoona I guess you did miss my point because that's not my point at all. If you go back and read the past comments, lemurian and I were discussing how boarders were drawn up in the Middle East. lemurian said it was relevant in Iraq because the samething happened, I was agreeing with her.

I'm not saying your point is wrong btw, were just commenting on different perspectives of Lemurian's post.

Quote:

People can be native to an area for hundreds of years, but it is the advent of "nations" that inevitably leads to conflict and blame. And actually this does relate to Iraq because if you were to look at a map of that country based on what people lived where, you'd wonder how on earth Iraq got to be a country at all. The whole thing is, if I may use technical terminology, totally wonky.

I was commenting on the fact that it's near impossible to make sure boundaries are drawn so that every group of people who identifies as a seperate group from another has their own chunk of land. Or even included within one countries borders.

You were merely agreeing with her because of how "Asyria" was split with one part in Iran and One in Iraq. Rather than All in Iran or All in Iraq, or even a seperate nation for the Asyrians.

 

[amoona]

Well you quoted what I said so that's why I assumed that the comment was directed at me.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by amoona Well you quoted what I said so that's why I assumed that the comment was directed at me.

Well i quoted you because of how you specifically mentioned a group of people, rather than the general idea that Lemurian presented.

 

[lemurian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae I was commenting on the fact that it's near impossible to make sure boundaries are drawn so that every group of people who identifies as a seperate group from another has their own chunk of land. Or even included within one countries borders. You were merely agreeing with her because of how "Asyria" was split with one part in Iran and One in Iraq. Rather than All in Iran or All in Iraq, or even a seperate nation for the Asyrians.

I think you're reading way too much into our conversation, Raerae! But now that we're on the subject, it must be impossible for you to understand that the Middle East was once peaceful and prosperous until the European notion of tidy little countries plunged the area into chaos. All whilst European leaders bled those countries dry. It continues today, as European leaders are in bed with corrupt Arab leaders... I could go on, but again we're so off topic!

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by quandolak Quote: Originally Posted by Shimmer I'm sorry, the choice IS theirs. They can find a way to voice their thoughts, opinions, and behaviours, as well as their preferences for the way of life, without attacking anyone. You yourself said in the other topic that you dont stereotype of judge people on false factors. But that sentance kind of proves that wrong if your seriously implying that *they* the iraqis are like that..they civillians included attack people...when clearly its the invaders that attacked. Not once did iraq attack america. That kind of rationalising applied to americans then could mean all sorts of nasty things.

Indeed I do not stereotype.
By saying "they" I am referencing the insurgents, radicals, extremists, and attackers.
I am NOT referring to the noncombatant Iraqi civilian.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by lemurian I think you're reading way too much into our conversation, Raerae! But now that we're on the subject, it must be impossible for you to understand that the Middle East was once peaceful and prosperous until the European notion of tidy little countries plunged the area into chaos. All whilst European leaders bled those countries dry. It continues today, as European leaders are in bed with corrupt Arab leaders... I could go on, but again we're so off topic!

Peacful and prosperous? For how long? Wars have been fought over that area of land since well before Roman times.

If anything since the Middle East, Palestine etc is where the fertile crescent is and where in theory human civilization started, there is probably more human blood spilled on that soil than any other place on earth.

Empires were carved out of the middle east long before the Europeans put lines on a map.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer Indeed I do not stereotype. By saying "they" I am referencing the insurgents, radicals, extremists, and attackers. I am NOT referring to the noncombatant Iraqi civilian.

Assuming anyone know what your saying when the term is vague is pointless Shimmer. Thats been made fairly clear on these boards time after time.

Be specific.

Or you could be like me and just run with it. I get misinterprted all the time, but it's more fun that way sometimes.

 

[lemurian]

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Originally Posted by Raerae Peacful and prosperous? For how long? Wars have been fought over that area of land since well before Roman times. If anything since the Middle East, Palestine etc is where the fertile crescent is and where in theory human civilization started, there is probably more human blood spilled on that soil than any other place on earth. Empires were carved out of the middle east long before the Europeans put lines on a map.

Perhaps I should have prefaced the phrase "peaceful and prosperous" with "relatively"? I guess I figure some things can be inferred.. anyway, the Middle East has been home to a huge variety of people, cultures and religions for thousands of years, but settlements were secluded by mountains, bodies of water, etc. Historically that region was always home to a multitude of skilled tradespeople.. it was not the barren desert of angry arabs killing in the name of Allah that it's portrayed as today. And I'm not saying that that portrayal is necessarily far from the truth, but it is the fault of European imperialism that things are the way that they are today.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by lemurian Perhaps I should have prefaced the phrase "peaceful and prosperous" with "relatively"? I guess I figure some things can be inferred.. anyway, the Middle East has been home to a huge variety of people, cultures and religions for thousands of years, but settlements were secluded by mountains, bodies of water, etc. Historically that region was always home to a multitude of skilled tradespeople.. it was not the barren desert of angry arabs killing in the name of Allah that it's portrayed as today. And I'm not saying that that portrayal is necessarily far from the truth, but it is the fault of European imperialism that things are the way that they are today.

You basically described every place on earth, until populations grew and naturally came into contact with others, or rulers got powerhungry and decided they needed to expand their borders, and sought out nations to conquor.

While European Imperialism is a factor in how things are today, it's not the only reason. And it will only be a foot note in history as time long after were all dead passes by. I'm sure people blamed problems on the Ottoman Empire / Roman Empires as well during their times of meddling with other populations.

 

[lemurian]

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Originally Posted by Raerae You basically described every place on earth, until populations grew and naturally came into contact with others, or rulers got powerhungry and decided they needed to expand their borders, and sought out nations to conquor. While European Imperialism is a factor in how things are today, it's not the only reason. And it will only be a foot note in history as time long after were all dead passes by. I'm sure people blamed problems on the Ottoman Empire / Roman Empires as well during their times of meddling with other populations.

I think you are absolutely wrong

Particularly where Israel/Palestine are concerned.

 

[MAC_Whore]

Not to derail the topic or take away from any importance, but do any of you notice that a lot of threads turn into this same discussion over and over? Not complaining, just a point to ponder.

 

[little teaser]

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Originally Posted by MAC_Whore Not to derail the topic or take away from any importance, but do any of you notice that a lot of threads turn into this same discussion over and over? Not complaining, just a point to ponder.

i was thinking the same thing.. im sure you just said what everyone else was thinking!

 

[Raerae]

Thats cuz this is the previous post. Shimmer just chopped off the off topic part that had to deal with suff not Sadam related and moved it.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by lemurian I think you are absolutely wrong Particularly where Israel/Palestine are concerned.

So these lands have NEVER been conquored in the past? They were never part of the Roman empire? They have just been peaceful places where artisans made pretty things and scholors learned about the stars?

I think we need to send a message to all the universities that their textbooks are wrong. Somebody is in SOOOOOO much trouble for not proof-reading.

 

[MAC_Whore]

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Originally Posted by Raerae Thats cuz this is the previous post. Shimmer just chopped off the off topic part that had to deal with suff not Sadam related and moved it.

Thanks

. I was aware of that. That's kind of my point as well. I was just stating that a lot of threads seem to head into the same old topics.

 

[*Stargazer*]

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Originally Posted by MAC_Whore I was just stating that a lot of threads seem to head into the same old topics.

I think it happens because sometimes people have nothing that defines them other than an argument or quarrel with the world. So everything becomes about that. You could say to them "I like eggs." and they'd say "Eggs are evil, dont you know they cause *insert rant here*" Al Sharpton is a prime example of this in my mind.