Not for the weak!! Caution. **STRONGLY ADVISE CAUTION** /admin

[Beauty Mark]

Quote:

And on this topic, a woman can rape a man (strap on/device for anal, or forced oral sex - in the UK at least, oral considered rape) so it is NOT always a female victim and a male abuser or the lesser thought of male-male.

I'm pretty sure that a man can get an erection and ejaculate, even though he was raped, much like a woman can have an orgasm, though she was raped.

 

[lipstickandhate]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Valerie~ I pretty much agree with everything NutMeg said. I also want to say that I think people are throwing the word 'victim' around much too loosely in this thread. To me, these girls are not victims of anything by being in this video. I think it's assuming a LOT to suggest they were forced, and I think the most likely scenario is that they gladly did everything the director asked in order to get the money and/or drugs in order to get by on the streets for another month. If you have ever been addicted to meth, for instance, I'm pretty sure I don't have to tell you what kind of previously-unthinkable acts you would do in order to get your fix. I'm also willing to believe these girls did it because they get off on it. As NutMeg said, there ARE people out there who enjoy things like this. Why is that so hard to accept for some people? I think it's disgusting too but I'm perfectly willing to believe them if they say they get off on it. People like different things... *shrug* Anyway, not looking to argue with anyone, just wanted to give my 2 cents.

I think it assumes equally as much to assume that b/c they made it, they were into it. If this were out of a major, alterna-fetish porn studio in the US, I would agree with you, that they were probably into it. Most of this type of porn is not created in the US.

Even if these women are drug addicts, that doesn't give some pervert the right to manipulate their addictions and it doesn't give him the right to profit on degradation.

I also reject the argument that something is okay b/c people find it sexually arousing. If you follow that logic too far, you end up with absurd, disgusting abuse.

 

[NutMeg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lipstickandhate I also reject the argument that something is okay b/c people find it sexually arousing. If you follow that logic too far, you end up with absurd, disgusting abuse.

I think that's a valid point, and the question of where to draw the line sounds like it would be an interesting debate. Want to have a conversation about it?

 

[janwa09]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Wait wait...let's leave S&M outta this.., k?

Ok to those who are into S&M, please pardon my ignorance

 

[janwa09]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NutMeg I don't think it's fair to say that there is no reason for people with a fetish to make a video. Why shouldn't they indulge their tastes? Sure it grosses you out, but no one held you down and forced you to watch. Does some deviant sexual behavior indicate mental problems? Where do you draw the line as to just how weird people can get before you cart them off to therapy? When you think about it, the only reason we have sex in the first place is for pleasure (all of the times you've had sex, how many were just for procreation?), so why is it weird that people do it differently? Sure, I think playing with shit during sex is disgusting too, but some people find anal sex disgusting and that turns me on. So who gets to make the decision about what's normal and what isn't?

I didn't mean all fetishes, I just meant this one on the video. Yeah, I don't think us common folks can draw the line to what's normal or abnormal, to what's considered a mental problem. Let's leave this up to the professionals.

With regards to sex--I don't think it's as plain as you make it appear--only for pleasure or procreation. We are very complex creatures, and a lot of things and emotions go on inside us which lead us to the actual sex--to the actual expression of whatever's going on inside of ourselves. And pleasure and procreation are oftentimes just a consequence of this.

 

[wolfsong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NutMeg Ok, I'd just like to remind everyone that just because you're grossed out by someone else's sexual preferences does not mean that those preferences are sick, or wrong, or that that person requires help. I'm finding that the nature of this thread is starting to sound like we're attacking those who get turned on by out there stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NutMeg Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but it's not like someone's desire to be treated like a victim stems from something as serious as childhood abuse.

I get what you mean - that wasnt however what i was implying:
I wasnt saying that ALL those who like to be treated like a victim were abused. Rather that it may be one of the reasons WHY someone gets into that kind of thing (other than they just enjoy it) where they could be viewed by some as being victimized, and that this doesnt mean they are just repeating the cycle of abuse - in reference to 'not all situations have victims etc' that Shimmer rightly posted.

However its actually pretty common for those that have been abused to turn to S&M in later life, have abusive relationships or become the abuser themself (which also includes people that have been through sexual abuse as a child, abusing their own children - as horrible as it sounds). The latter two IMO are true forms of S&M (whilst what we think of as S&M is either role playing or consented on both sides and thus, the masochist is the one in control and therefore not truely 'submissive'). But being abused is certainly not the 'be all and end all' of S&M - far from it!

 

[SparklingWaves]

Women in Brazil: So Protected Still So Abused
www.brazzil.com/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=8977
Men in Brazil, Beating up Women is a Right
http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/886/41/
Peru to lower the age of consent
http://www.latinsexgazette.com/lsg/south_america/southamerica01news10.htm
Brazil Tries to Stem Tide of Sex Slavery
http://www.peacewomen.org/news/Brazil/June05/sexslavery.html
In Brazil Women Earn up to 70% less than Men…
http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/6468/41/
Paraphilias
http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic3127.htm
The data that have been collected, however, do support at least 1 biological marker for vulnerability: men account for the vast majority of paraphilias. Among the paraphilias specifically delineated by DSM-IV, paraphilias are much more infrequently diagnosed in women than in men. Except for sexual masochism, which is still about 20 times less likely to affect men than women, paraphilias are quite unlikely to be diagnosed in women.
Paraphilias, or at least conditions that look very much like paraphilias, have also been reported as the result of brain trauma, neoplasms, temporal lobe damage, or epilepsy and may manifest as hyposexuality or hypersexuality, particularly in men. Lehne8 described a case of a frontal lobe injury in a man who suddenly developed a paraphilic interest in his stepdaughter's breasts. Treatment with conventional methods, including anticonvulsant administration, cognitive-behavioral therapy, and individual/family therapy failed to address his illness adequately but antiandrogens brought his symptoms under control
Excerpt taken from Psychiatric Times, Paraphilias: Clinical & Forensic Considerations

 

[wolfsong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark I'm pretty sure that a man can get an erection and ejaculate, even though he was raped, much like a woman can have an orgasm, though she was raped.

Thats very true, and it doesnt take away from what is done to them (some people think that if someone gets hard/comes they are consenting - even if it didnt start this way. I think thats a very outdated, dangerously ignorant way of viewing rape). Viagra anyone?

 

[silversuniverse]

I know a couple girls who have been raped before, I was a near miss. One of them says she orgasmed during the sex, which made her hurt even more. Just because you become aroused and/or orgasm DOES NOT mean you are consenting. People who believe that are ridiculous.

As for those videos... Well some one must get off to it. That's their decision, not mine.

 

[SparklingWaves]

I think there is a spectrum. Some are indeed victims and some are not. It really is individual.

 

[SparklingWaves]

Quote:

Originally Posted by silversuniverse Just because you become aroused and/or orgasm DOES NOT mean you are consenting. People who believe that are ridiculous. .

This is so true!

 

[labellavita7]

I wonder if my grandma will ever stumble upon these while learning to use her computer.

 

[lipstickandhate]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SparklingWaves Women in Brazil: So Protected Still So Abused www.brazzil.com/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=8977 Men in Brazil, Beating up Women is a Right http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/886/41/ Peru to lower the age of consent http://www.latinsexgazette.com/lsg/south_america/southamerica01news10.htm Brazil Tries to Stem Tide of Sex Slavery http://www.peacewomen.org/news/Brazil/June05/sexslavery.html In Brazil Women Earn up to 70% less than Men… http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/6468/41/ Paraphilias http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic3127.htm The data that have been collected, however, do support at least 1 biological marker for vulnerability: men account for the vast majority of paraphilias. Among the paraphilias specifically delineated by DSM-IV, paraphilias are much more infrequently diagnosed in women than in men. Except for sexual masochism, which is still about 20 times less likely to affect men than women, paraphilias are quite unlikely to be diagnosed in women. Paraphilias, or at least conditions that look very much like paraphilias, have also been reported as the result of brain trauma, neoplasms, temporal lobe damage, or epilepsy and may manifest as hyposexuality or hypersexuality, particularly in men. Lehne8 described a case of a frontal lobe injury in a man who suddenly developed a paraphilic interest in his stepdaughter's breasts. Treatment with conventional methods, including anticonvulsant administration, cognitive-behavioral therapy, and individual/family therapy failed to address his illness adequately but antiandrogens brought his symptoms under control Excerpt taken from Psychiatric Times, Paraphilias: Clinical & Forensic Considerations

This is very interesting. Thank you for taking the time to find this stuff, read it, and link it.

You and others on this board might be interested in the following:

- State Department Trafficking in Persons 2007 report:
Victims of Trafficking and Violence Protection Act of 2000: Trafficking in Persons Report 2007

- A California based advocacy group for victims of sex trafficking:
Captive Daughters Home Page

- An older article about sex trafficking in Brooklyn:
http://www.thebrooklynrail.org/local...stitution.html

- Human Rights Watch's work on sex trafficking:
Human Rights Watch: Women’s Human Rights: Trafficking of Women and Girls

 

[NutMeg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfsong I get what you mean - that wasnt however what i was implying: I wasnt saying that ALL those who like to be treated like a victim were abused. Rather that it may be one of the reasons WHY someone gets into that kind of thing (other than they just enjoy it) where they could be viewed by some as being victimized, and that this doesnt mean they are just repeating the cycle of abuse - in reference to 'not all situations have victims etc' that Shimmer rightly posted. However its actually pretty common for those that have been abused to turn to S&M in later life, have abusive relationships or become the abuser themself (which also includes people that have been through sexual abuse as a child, abusing their own children - as horrible as it sounds). The latter two IMO are true forms of S&M (whilst what we think of as S&M is either role playing or consented on both sides and thus, the masochist is the one in control and therefore not truely 'submissive'). But being abused is certainly not the 'be all and end all' of S&M - far from it!

I can see your point, and I find your characterization of forms of S&M interesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by janwa09 I didn't mean all fetishes, I just meant this one on the video. Yeah, I don't think us common folks can draw the line to what's normal or abnormal, to what's considered a mental problem. Let's leave this up to the professionals. With regards to sex--I don't think it's as plain as you make it appear--only for pleasure or procreation. We are very complex creatures, and a lot of things and emotions go on inside us which lead us to the actual sex--to the actual expression of whatever's going on inside of ourselves. And pleasure and procreation are oftentimes just a consequence of this.

I agree that sex is a complex thing, it was actually a part of the point I was trying to make. Sex is complex enough that I find it hard to judge someone for getting pleasure from something I don't understand. I'm in to some things that other people find abnormal, but I think a good judge of my need for mental help is how much my sexual habits are interfering with my daily life, rather than how unusual they are. All this is assuming I'm not having sex with children, or something equally as abusive of others.

Thanks for the data SparklingWaves. I'm going to read through it now.

 

[j_absinthe]

wolfsong, S&M is a term used to identify a particular genre of fetish, occasionally there's a BD attached as well, or at least that's how it's been broken down to me.

Sadism and masochism however are much more psychological. You can be a sadist and not necessarily be into BDSM, you see?

 

[MxAxC-_ATTACK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by labellavita7 I wonder if my grandma will ever stumble upon these while learning to use her computer.

oh no! funny and not funny at the same time!

 

[wolfsong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by j_absinthe wolfsong, S&M is a term used to identify a particular genre of fetish, occasionally there's a BD attached as well, or at least that's how it's been broken down to me. Sadism and masochism however are much more psychological. You can be a sadist and not necessarily be into BDSM, you see?

You're right about that- thats why I deemed it 'true S&M' rather then the 'fetish S&M' (I lumped them both together, rather then saying abused=masochistic/abuser=sadistic for ease of writing; and because S&M doesn’t always refer to consented acts - also 'sadism' and 'masochism' usually go hand in hand: those that get sexual gratification from inflicting pain/humiliation usually find those that consciously or unconsciously like to receive pain/humiliation etc). BD or 'bondage and discipline' doesn’t feature in what I wrote. The term BDSM IMO refers mostly to acts with consent of all those involved (though I guess I should make clear that this doesn’t define it for me) as it covers more role playing – esp. discipline.



I like this thread

 

[SparklingWaves]

Several of my family members actually lived in South America for a time. I don’t even want to repeat what abuses they saw happen to some women right out on the public streets. I hope this is still not common place.

Sadly, I saw a report that stated every 15 minutes a woman is beaten in her home. Another report stated, child sexual abuse is very high. It is as high as 70% in some areas.

I am extremely interested and concerned about how other countries around the world treat their women and children on all levels.

Thank you so much, Lipstick&Hate, for the very informative websites. That means a lot to me.

 

[janwa09]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NutMeg Sex is complex enough that I find it hard to judge someone for getting pleasure from something I don't understand.

I find this hard to believe since you yourself said that the people in this video are 'disgusting.' Isn't this already a form of judgment? I think it's better for all of us if we just stop pretending that we are above judging others.

 

[RoseMe]

I am not so interested in the content of "links in questions"; rather, I am concerned that these links are still posted here.

There are many girls under the age of 17 who love make-up and are members here. Do we not want to be a responsible community together, by not posting NC17 material here?