Please be VERY VERY Careful

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by Raerae Did you hear the one about the guy shot with his own gun? It's hilarious.

Sure did. He was out hunting with his dad and shot down his right leg. Ended his basketball career, could've had a scholarship. Wound up with stitches from thigh to lower shin, and doesn't have anything to say except "dammit I got too excited bout that buck.
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And where exactly are you going to be able to muster in America in the event that the government suddenly decides to become a police state (and has a military willing to enforce it's laws)?

The fact that you ask that is silly. You act like we live in some tiny country, where there aren't people and groups who live in preparation for that very day.
I don't rely on them to do that, or to be there, but they are there, regardless. Lots of money is spent by people like that. *shrug*

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Everyone has a choice. A soldier always has the choice, to follow, or not follow and order. The chain of command only has power if those they are in charge of, support the chain of command.

This is where you show you have no concept of what it's like to be a soldier, or of the military mentality. That's okay though.
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At least we agree your argument is kinda funny.

No darlin', I'm still sitting here laughing at you.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer Seriously are there any other civil liberties we'd like to give up?

There are plenty of civil liberties that people have already willingly given up. Or are trying to make illegal. Your slippery slope argument doesn't really hold much water.

The thing about the American government, is that, given the choice, anything thats currently illegal, can be made legal through voting and legeslation. And vice versa. Given the majority wants to make it that way.

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by Raerae There are plenty of civil liberties that people have already willingly given up. Or are trying to make illegal. Your slippery slope argument doesn't really hold much water. The thing about the American government, is that, given the choice, anything thats currently illegal, can be made legal through voting and legeslation. And vice versa. Given the majority wants to make it that way.

It's not a slippery slope argument. It's quite real and valid.
If you're ready to have someone who hasn't your best interests in mind live your life and make your decisions for you, have fun with that.
There are quite a few people who don't share the sentiment.

Homicide rates as a whole, especially homicides as a result of firearms use, are not always significantly lower in many other developed countries. This is apparent in the UK and Japan, which have very strict gun control, while Israel, Canada, and Switzerland at the same time have low homicide rates and high rates of gun distribution.

 

[Hawkeye]

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Originally Posted by Raerae Many people dont see the need to have a choice with regards to something, who's only purpose, is death. And thats kinda of a useless statement Hawkeye, as the government makes MANY choices for it's people. There are plenty of things the goverment does not allow, that plenty of people dont agree with. Stem cells, suicide, drugs, etc.

It's not a useless statement. It just shows more and more what a bunch of stupid mindless sheep we've become to allow governments to make these decisions for us. Screw the individual. The individual doesn't exist anymore. Pretty soon we'll all be nothing more than stupid numbers being told how to act, what to like what to not like. You get killed? Big deal. Number 3435839 is dead. They weren't that important to the great command of the big brother government anyway- we can just produce another one with with the same thought patterns as that number.

And we are letting this happen. Because we don't want to offend anyone, we don't want to hurt anyone, we don't want do jack sh*t. We just want other people- the government to think for us.

Really that's what the gun control issue is all about. That's what the abortion issue is all about. That's what the drug issue is all about. That's what every issue is all about.

WHY can the individual not make decisions for themselves?

Because it's just too hard.

They think we're stupid. And unfortunately THEY may be right.

 

[Shimmer]

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And we are letting this happen. Because we don't want to offend anyone, we don't want to hurt anyone, we don't want do jack sh*t. We just want other people- the government to think for us.

Exactly. Because by allowing others to think for us, we remove all accountability for ourselves.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer The fact that you ask that is silly. You act like we live in some tiny country, where there aren't people and groups who live in preparation for that very day. I don't rely on them to do that, or to be there, but they are there, regardless. Lots of money is spent by people like that. *shrug*

And you can bet our Government already knows exactly where every one of them lives, who's in charge, and where they would plan to gather. Mustering in a large consolidated location is suicide with the way modern weaponry works. Just look how quickly Sadam's army was eliminated, and that army was signifigantly more powerful than anything the wacko's in Montana (or anywhere else) could put together.[/quote]

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This is where you show you have no concept of what it's like to be a soldier, or of the military mentality. That's okay though.

The lemming mentality? I'd like to think people's sense of honor (you know that thing so important to you guys) would prevent them from carrying out orders that are so obviously immoral. Military mentality or not, laws or not. And that enough of our soldiers would take up arms against those who lacked the honor to do whats right.

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by Raerae And you can bet our Government already knows exactly where every one of them lives, who's in charge, and where they would plan to gather. Mustering in a large consolidated location is suicide with the way modern weaponry works. Just look how quickly Sadam's army was eliminated, and that army was signifigantly more powerful than anything the wacko's in Montana (or anywhere else) could put together.

lol. Ok.

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The lemming mentality? I'd like to think people's sense of honor (you know that thing so important to you guys) would prevent them from carrying out orders that are so obviously immoral. Military mentality or not, laws or not. And that enough of our soldiers would take up arms against those who lacked the honor to do whats right.

Again, you're missing the f act that any soldier in the united states military has to follow a lawful order as it is given. If the letter of the law changes, guess what, so do the orders she has to follow.
Law changes allowing for immediate execution for disobedience of a direct order, all it takes is a few examples to be made.
*shrug*
but, you're not going to change your perpsective, and I'm certainly not going to change mine.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by Hawkeye Really that's what the gun control issue is all about. That's what the abortion issue is all about. That's what the drug issue is all about. That's what every issue is all about. WHY can the individual not make decisions for themselves? Because it's just too hard.

The individual can't make those choices for themselves because a large majority of like minded individuals decided for them. Our country isn't a democracy where every individual gets to choose what they want to do, it's a Republic. And in Republics, MAJORITY rules.

Using your same slippery slope example of freedoms being taken away, a society of Anarchy where anyone can do anything is equally destructive. There would be no accountability.

All things considered I think what we have going now is pretty good. Dont like the laws on the books? Then find enough people who agree with you, and change it. You have that choice.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer you're missing the f act that any soldier in the united states military has to follow a lawful order as it is given. If the letter of the law changes, guess what, so do the orders she has to follow. Law changes allowing for immediate execution for disobedience of a direct order, all it takes is a few examples to be made. *shrug* but, you're not going to change your perpsective, and I'm certainly not going to change mine.

Your also missing the fact that countless times in history, those in positions of power, have been removed from it by force because the people they had command over, decided they were no longer worth following.

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by Raerae Your also missing the fact that countless times in history, those in positions of power, have been removed from it by force because the people they had command over, decided they were no longer worth following.

Never before in history has an army been trained as ours has been, either.

 

[Hawkeye]

There is a huge following for the government to get out of our lives but the government won't move. I would personally like to thank the likes of the congress and the government that feels we are a bunch of idiotic sheep who are too incompetant to think for ourselves.

It may be a republic but it is a beast up in washington that knows we are all too lazy to think and they know how to keep the hold on us. They know we will be distracted by hollywood and these stupid squirmeshes to really notice whats going on and they are absolutely right.

It is a republic- but the majority does not rule, the rich lawyers do that love to line their pockets full of my money and then tell me what to do.

But its OK, as long as I'm infatuated with American Idol and hollywood and nonsense these rich b*stards can get away with anything.

They do not care about the people they are hired to serve. THEY ONLY CARE ABOUT POWER.

The government does not like being told its wrong.

The government, the rich people-Bush, Kerry, Edwards, Kennedy, Pelosi, Clinton, look they are not poor grass roots people. They went to Yale and Harvard and had tons of money in their pockets before they were born.

They look down on the people who are struggling. They don't know what it's like to stare a gun down they don't know what its like out in the real world. They live in their own fantasy land in Washington thinking they know what is best for the grassroots.

The grassroots started this country and one day- someone will come along and reclaim it for the PEOPLE. Not the government who tells us if guns are right or wrong.

It's not majority rules.

It's whoever has the most amount of cash rules.

and if you disagree- then name me ONE senator, in the past 15 years to have been a mere farmer as a profession.

and on that note- I'm going to go to work and come back to this.

 

[Trunkmonkey]

goodness raerae your mood icon is dead on today.

I'll just say a few things and move back into my trunk.

A) I've pointed a gun at someone with the intent of exerting 2.5 lbs of pressure on the trigger if they did not immediately desist in what they were doing. I wouldn't have had nightmares from that.

B) You're right we've let a lot of our civil liberties be eroded by a bunch of people we wouldn't allow in our homes but that won't change because enough people in this country live comfortably enough to follow along with the rest of the sheep. Be it gun control or a national id card when is there going to be an issue that's polarizing enough for the people to finally AS A MAJORITY say no more.

C) For all of you ladies that fear the firearm I can certainly empathize however personal safety and the safety of your loved ones is a paramount concer especially considering the number of assaults etc are going up in general. Take some measure to protect yourself even if it's only pepper spray or a coat hanger. Dialing 911 is only going to get someone to come cover your corpse in 20 to 30 minutes.

D) While the general intended purpose of a firearm is to inflict bodily injury and death to the target the 'target' can also include, paper bulls eyes, clay pigeons, coke bottles, tin cans, old cars, etc.. If you've never tried it you can't understand it most likely but target shooting either with a firearm or a bb gun is FUN.

E) Personally as a Trunk Monkey I prefer a pipe wrench

Ciao

Edit: Hawkeye I'd give you some Thank because you're spot on but mine, sadly, does not work.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by Hawkeye It's not majority rules. It's whoever has the most amount of cash rules. and if you disagree- then name me ONE senator, in the past 15 years to have been a mere farmer as a profession. and on that note- I'm going to go to work and come back to this.

I'm not diagreeing that cash rules. Thats obvious.

However, times are changing. And the ability to advertise yourself and get noticed via the internet is changing the face of politics.

Things like YouTube, Blogs, MySpace, and forums like these are a revolution in the way politics work. And it's allowing people for nearly nothing, to get noticed in ways that were nearly impossible just a few years ago.

 

[Shimmer]

Dude. Pipe wrenches are fucking AWESOME as weapons.

Just sayin'.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by Trunkmonkey goodness raerae your mood icon is dead on today.

This is a mild discussion compared to the stuff Shimmer and I get involved in at times

 

[Trunkmonkey]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer Dude. Pipe wrenches are fucking AWESOME as weapons. Just sayin'.

I'm sayin.. check me out in my first movie

 

[Trunkmonkey]

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Originally Posted by Raerae This is a mild discussion compared to the stuff Shimmer and I get involved in at times

I know...

I lurk...

I've only recently popped the latch

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." --George Washington

 

[*Stargazer*]

I love it when trunkmonkey comes out of hiding.

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by Ladybug10678 I love it when trunkmonkey comes out of hiding.

Ha me too. two thumbs WAY up.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by Trunkmonkey I know... I lurk... I've only recently popped the latch "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." --George Washington

A true statement, but sadly outdated. The fact is, if foreign governments can't even protect themselves from the Unites States, civilian militia's have no chance.