Please be VERY VERY Careful

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Yes it states you have the right to own a fire arm for the intent of having it availible to form a militia to protect the state.

And, if need be, which could very well happen, that's a perfectly valid reason. Though it's certainly not the main reason. Quote:

The last time I checked, we haven't needed any militias to ward off invading countries.

States can invade other states without federal intervention. The invaded state has to declare a state of emergency before that can happen, and if hte state's government is dead/out of commission, no one is there to declare the state of emergency.


Quote:

Guns make it signifigantly more difficult to protect yourself from harm, especially in the event that your the person not armed with one. If someone has a golf club, and is intent on causing sever bodily harm, at least I have a chance to run. Not to mention I have a much better chance of getting help from someone if i'm not being attacked with a gun. Most people will not assist anyone if the person causing violence is armed with a fire arm, there is too much chance they will suffer deadly force. And not everyone has the strength to cause deadly force with a blunt weapon. Or the stomache to carry it out. It's a lot harder decision to use deadly force thats upfront and personal, than it is to pull a trigger from the distance where your seperated from most of the violence being inflicted upon another.

Darlin', by the time you're close enough to someone to realize that they're going to use the golfclub/bat/whatever to harm you, you're already too close. You can't run as quickly as you think, particularly when the attacker's reach is extended by 2 to 4 feet.
Most people will not assist anyone who's being attacked or beaten, sorry that's just the way the world works now.
Don't create your own constitution (mental, physical, whatever) as the constitution for the rest of the world, particularly when it's been proven time and again by simple acts of human savagery that your argument is wholly inaccurate. If someone has the balls and the intention to kill you using a firearm, they have the balls and the intention to kill you using other methods. That's just human nature.
You're flip flopping your story here, because on one hand you're saying that most firearms owners are killed with their own weapon when an intruder over powers them, then on the other, when that didn't seem to get your desired result, you're saying that firearms offer a measure of impersonality because they offer the ability to kill from such long range. Which is it? You can't argue it both ways, both arguments are flawed, really. If someone wants to do you harm, I can assure you that they're going to do it, whether they use a knife, a gun, a bat, a sap, a club, or a nine iron. It's pure and simple fact. If s/he wants to hurt you, s/he's not necessarily too particular about the weapon, except that firearms require the least amount of effort, and offer the most intimidation factor.
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I'm sorry you live in a neighborhood where people "beat the shit" out of each other with tball bats. I really am.

Actually, if you were paying attention, you'd note that I stated, repeatedly, that I live in a little white bread suburban neighborhood with kids on bikes and privacy fences and pools and little old men who yammer over fences and dogs playing fences in yards. I've never once stated that I lived in a dangerous neighborhood, or anything close to that type of situation. Keep up.


Quote:

You can't compare the ease of deadly force a fire arm gives the user, with that of any other typical weapon, be it a golf club, spork, or chop stick. Guns enable crimes, like drive by shootings and school massacres, that woulnd't be possible w/out them.

A) You've obviously never seen the damage a golf club does, with really, minimal effort.
B) School massacres? Psh. Bombs baby. Not hard to make, relatively easy to conceal, and a whole lot messier than firearms. Just not as intimidating.
C) It wouldn't be possible to do a lot of things without a lot of other things. What's your point?
Bad things are going to happen whether you like it or not. Deal with it.



Quote:

Spoken like a true military lemming.

Spoken like someone who truly doesn't know what she's talking about so instead finds pundits to quote and propaganda to spout in order to try to substantiate an argument that could only be described as weak on its best day.
You know nothing of my time in service, you know nothing of what it's like to be a soldier, you know nothing of what it's like to pledge to lay your life on the line for ungrateful, ill informed, closed eyed, closed minded, irresponsible, ingrates like yourself only so they can continue to spit upon the very things you're pledging to fight for and defend.
Until you do, I suggest you stick to subjects that only mildly make you appear ignorant, and stay away from the ones that confirm it without a doubt.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Society is selfish, and people typically want their cake and to eat it too. You all talk about letting each person be held accountable for their own actions. But in reality it doesn't work that way. People impose their views and beliefs on others all the time. This subject just happens to be a tender one for a few people for once =p

So what exactly do you feel accountable for? Nothing, quite obviously, because you want someone else to think for you, make your mind up, make the hard decisions for you, except of course when it comes to abortion. You definitely don't want someone telling you you can't make that choice, though when you do it's wholly so you, again, aren't accountable for your actions.


Interesting.q

 

[Hawkeye]

I don't recall writing yadda yadda yadda for space so I would highly appreciate it if you would refrain from replacing my words. You are much better than doing such a childish act raerae.

Now your right that society won't work that way because they refuse to be that way. They are nothing more than sheep. Easily molded to do whatever it is that they want and then having the blame put on an inanimate object or somebody else.

And people can impose whatever they believe as long as they don't drag the federal/State/local government into. And this is exactly what people are doing with guns. They are basically doing nothing more than crying to big brother that they don't like thinking and someone is walking around with a gun and it scares them a lot and they don't want to see it because it scares them so can't the big brother please take care of it for them?

You can tell me until your blue in the face that you hate guns and thats fine. I'm not going to go and join a movement to have the federal government stop you from doing so. But these people who don't like guns- they are trying to make the federal government stop those of us who like guns. Therefore trying to take away the freedom.

That's why it is such a big issue.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye Trust me, if somebody wants to kill somebody bad enough then killing someone with any tool is rather easy.

Ranged firearms make it easier though. Not to mention make the killing or large groups of people quicker and more efficient than by hand.

 

[Hawkeye]

Everyone knows guns are not the most efficent for that raerae, bombs are.

 

[Shimmer]

Bombs are cheaper to make too. And, when done properly, virtually untraceable.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye I don't recall writing yadda yadda yadda for space so I would highly appreciate it if you would refrain from replacing my words. You are much better than doing such a childish act raerae.

There is a point where taking up the entire thread with a quoted post gets a little redundant, but I needed to be clear I was responding to you.

Dont hate on Seignfeld.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Spoken like someone who truly doesn't know what she's talking about so instead finds pundits to quote and propaganda to spout in order to try to substantiate an argument that could only be described as weak on its best day.

Oh, i'm sorry we dont agree that needing guns is a necessary force. The fact of the matter is, gun control woulnd't even be an issue if people using firearms were doing so in a responsible way. It's the irresponsible use that causing more and more people to get fed up with fire arms and the careless deaths the cause to innocent victims not even involved in the situation.


Quote:

You know nothing of my time in service, you know nothing of what it's like to be a soldier, you know nothing of what it's like to pledge to lay your life on the line for ungrateful, ill informed, closed eyed, closed minded, irresponsible, ingrates like yourself only so they can continue to spit upon the very things you're pledging to fight for and defend. Until you do, I suggest you stick to subjects that only mildly make you appear ignorant, and stay away from the ones that confirm it without a doubt.

Any instituation that brainwashes it's members to follow commands w/out question, regardless of their morality, deserves criticism.

 

[glamdoll]

Personally I dont like guns. Not because I fear the GUN its self but the intentions of the PERSON behind the gun. The gun its self wont hurt you, just like the rope wont hurt you, and the knife wont hurt you BY ITSELF. Once picked up by an individual thats when it becomes a deadly weapon.

Though its not likely that our government will have another civil war,
there be no need too. They already are powerful, and each right that we do have we should defend.

Have you guys seen V for Vendetta?
Though its an extreme situtiation reality is, that its not an impossible one. and no matter how well armed our army is, we the people out number the army. Why do you think they want to draft?
not enough people in the militia.

and here in the US we have been very lucky not to have a war at home, the closest we have had was the Pearl harbor.
If that was to happen Id like to know i have the right, and the weapon to defend myself.

I have a son and trust me, I do NOT know a limit in my mind that I would not cross to protect his life. I dont know if its only us moms that feel like that, but honestly if it comes down to it, if someone threatens my safety and that of my family you bet ill be puttin donut holes if i have to into some ppl.

Raerae you do have valid points, but reality is that we have the right to defend ourselves. Whether its from the militia, another country or the person right next to us. People cannot be trusted its just as simple as that.

 

[glamdoll]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Any instituation that brainwashes it's members to follow commands w/out question, regardless of their morality, deserves criticism.

but u see those people who have been "brainwashed" are fighting
w/ guns ur FREEDOM to say that about them, and their establishment.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Quote:

The fact of the matter is, gun control woulnd't even be an issue if people using firearms were doing so in a responsible way. It's the irresponsible use that causing more and more people to get fed up with fire arms and the careless deaths the cause to innocent victims not even involved in the situation.

Would you be opposed to a license like a driver's license, where one would have to undergo training and testing in order to have a gun?

Even though it's potentially offensive to others, I think it's important that we question establishments and practices. It's just the matter of how one does it. I think the armed forces does some good and some bad personally. I don't believe that the army brainwashes everyone, because God knows I've known my share of folks who walk away from service thinking it's a corrupt institution.

To lighten the mood slightly but keep on topic, remember the episode of The Simpsons where Homer bought a gun and became an incredibly irresponsible gun owner? I think he even open food with his gun or something like that. Then he uses the gun to save Apu or someone like that at a robbery.

There was also the Halloween episode where Lisa made it her mission to rid the world of guns and zombie gun nuts took over because the Springfield residents couldn't protect themselves.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Oh, i'm sorry we dont agree that needing guns is a necessary force. The fact of the matter is, gun control woulnd't even be an issue if people using firearms were doing so in a responsible way. It's the irresponsible use that causing more and more people to get fed up with fire arms and the careless deaths the cause to innocent victims not even involved in the situation. Any instituation that brainwashes it's members to follow commands w/out question, regardless of their morality, deserves criticism.

Stop trying to legislate responsibility. That's not going to do anything.
Legislation simply removes personal responsibility.
Try educating instead of legislating. Teach people, indoctrinate as to why it's a bad idea to shoot someone.
Teach the value of human life.
Simply legislating weapons doesn't fix the problem. Legislating doesn't change the fact that children are being taught blatant disregard for human life. Legislation doesn't change the fact that no one feels personal responsibility for their actions.
Legislation isn't the answer, a change at the core of the home is necessary. THAT is what will make innocents safe.

And, like I said, you're revealing your ignorance. You have no idea why or or what within the military. Educate yourself, until you do, stop talking about things you know nothing about.
A government who will rule their people by fear and oppression has no qualms with ruling and commanding its soldiers by fear and oppression.

 

[geeko]

Basically in my country we are not to allowed to own any firearms, if we are found out to be in possession of one, we will be jailed for a long long time. And as mentioned before, a person in possession of a gun who fires a live shot will be sentenced to death, even if its out of his/her protection, because in the first place we are not allowed to have guns, and firing a live shot endangers the lives of others

Anyway, my country has a lot of death penalties...death penalty for drug trafficking (more than 15g = drug trafficking = sentence to death by hanging) etc.

but i think the gun law helps to make my country a safer place..at least potential criminals can't get their hands easily on a gun (those that do rob the banks and not homes.as they are taking a big risk by owning a gun, why risk it on robbin a home with not much $$ inside?)...

oh ya i forget to add...my government does not allow freedom of speech on politics. :x and in fact they will rebut anyone who dares to criticize their policies. and the only national newspaper we have is also very pro government. We have opposition parties, but there are too few in the parliament to provide a check and balance on the government. So yeah...everything is ruled by legislation in my country.

We only can say yes to the legislation but not nay.

 

[Shimmer]

unfathomable to me.

 

[geeko]

beats me either. Ask my government.

but at least i can walk in the streets safely knowing that the chance of me getting shot dead by a gun is very slim...

only the police are allowed to have guns and they have the authority to fire a live shot if the situation deems it to be so.

i think the main problem is the intent to do evil.

If the person is intent on doing evil, whether it is gun, knife, or baseball bat etc....you can't deter him from doing so.

 

[Shimmer]

I can walk in the streets safely knowing the chance of getting shot is very slim.
I can grocery shop, go clubbing, and even yell in my front yard at my husband's ex wife, and I'm not worried about getting shot. To be honest, the ONLY time I worry about getting shot is when I venture into a neighborhood that's kind of skeevy. I avoid the neighborhoods like that and I'm perfectly fine.

 

[Hawkeye]

Nobody is hating on seinfeild raerae- here is a brilliant thought- and I know this is impossible to fathom-- why not put my name in the post instead of changing my words because my redundant response is the exact same as YOUR redundant response?

*GASP*

Oh dear God what a novel idea.

SOMEBODY! I hit on something brilliant, CALL THE MEDIA! Call the copyright people- I have to copyright this brilliant idea before somebody takes it!

 

[Hawkeye]

makeupnewbie you hit the nail on the head. with this quote:
Quote:

i think the main problem is the intent to do evil. If the person is intent on doing evil, whether it is gun, knife, or baseball bat etc....you can't deter him from doing so.

I don't agree with your government doing that but that's ok. I do agree with you on the quote because it is very very true.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer I can walk in the streets safely knowing the chance of getting shot is very slim. I can grocery shop, go clubbing, and even yell in my front yard at my husband's ex wife, and I'm not worried about getting shot. To be honest, the ONLY time I worry about getting shot is when I venture into a neighborhood that's kind of skeevy. I avoid the neighborhoods like that and I'm perfectly fine.

Actually, in the more dangerous areas, I'm worried about being attacked period. Gun, bat, knife, just physically grabbing me...

We just don't live in a safe world, and I'm not really convinced that banning guns is necessarily the answer.

 

[Shimmer]

beauty_mark, good point.