Trunkmonkey
Well-known member
whoops duplicate
Please be VERY VERY Careful
- Thread starter Hawkeye
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Trunkmonkey
Well-known member
Trunkmonkey has been a busy monkey lately. Lots of things needed clubbing.
That said...
The freedom to keep and bear arms is a constitutional right that should not be abridged or subverted and I believe I'm of like mind with the framers of our constitution based on the quote from George Washington (above). You don't have to like firearms, you don't have to own firearms or weapons of any kind if you don't want to, however I do not want your fear of firearms infringing on my RIGHT to own one.
That said...
The freedom to keep and bear arms is a constitutional right that should not be abridged or subverted and I believe I'm of like mind with the framers of our constitution based on the quote from George Washington (above). You don't have to like firearms, you don't have to own firearms or weapons of any kind if you don't want to, however I do not want your fear of firearms infringing on my RIGHT to own one.
Trunkmonkey
Well-known member
Quote:
RaeRae.. I'm sorry but you're just wrong on this one okay? I'll agree to disagree with you but I'm not going to argue with you about what my rights were intended to be and should be. You can give yours up but don't expect me to play along or like it.
Originally Posted by Raerae
A true statement, but sadly outdated. The fact is, if foreign governments can't even protect themselves from the Unites States, civilian militia's have no chance. |
RaeRae.. I'm sorry but you're just wrong on this one okay? I'll agree to disagree with you but I'm not going to argue with you about what my rights were intended to be and should be. You can give yours up but don't expect me to play along or like it.
*Stargazer*
Well-known member
I don't like guns. At all. That said, we have one and you bet your ass that I know how to use it. It is completely inaccesible to my children and there solely for my protection given how frequently my husband can potentially be gone.
I never thought I'd be able to use one until I was almost assaulted by a neighbor shortly after I was married. My husband took me to the range the very next day and taught me how to use his 9mm. Now that I have kids, anyone who enters my house uninvited will find themselves with a clip emptied into them.
Still don't like guns though!
I never thought I'd be able to use one until I was almost assaulted by a neighbor shortly after I was married. My husband took me to the range the very next day and taught me how to use his 9mm. Now that I have kids, anyone who enters my house uninvited will find themselves with a clip emptied into them.
Still don't like guns though!
Raerae
Well-known member
Quote:
The political and global climate today is very different from that which exicted when the framers of our constitution put things together.
Just like all written word, it's subject to interpretation. And with interpretation, you can view the same words in many different lights.
Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
I read that as members of our military/law enforcement (what our militias evolved into) have the right to bear arms to protect the security of the free state.
Not that any John and Jane Doe, can own weapons. So if you want to bear arms, join the military. That the right of the people, to bear arms in protection of the state.
Not to bear arms in protection of your neighbor.
| Originally Posted by Trunkmonkey
Trunkmonkey has been a busy monkey lately. Lots of things needed clubbing. That said... The freedom to keep and bear arms is a constitutional right that should not be abridged or subverted and I believe I'm of like mind with the framers of our constitution based on the quote from George Washington (above). You don't have to like firearms, you don't have to own firearms or weapons of any kind if you don't want to, however I do not want your fear of firearms infringing on my RIGHT to own one. |
The political and global climate today is very different from that which exicted when the framers of our constitution put things together.
Just like all written word, it's subject to interpretation. And with interpretation, you can view the same words in many different lights.
Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
I read that as members of our military/law enforcement (what our militias evolved into) have the right to bear arms to protect the security of the free state.
Not that any John and Jane Doe, can own weapons. So if you want to bear arms, join the military. That the right of the people, to bear arms in protection of the state.
Not to bear arms in protection of your neighbor.
Shimmer
Well-known member
Quote:
"The right of the people" in EVERY SINGLE OTHER AMENDMENT REFERS TO INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS of the American citizen.
Why is that any different in the Second Amendment? Because you're uncomfortable with guns?
| Originally Posted by Raerae
The political and global climate today is very different from that which exicted when the framers of our constitution put things together. Just like all written word, it's subject to interpretation. And with interpretation, you can view the same words in many different lights. Amendment II A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. I read that as members of our military/law enforcement (what our militias evolved into) have the right to bear arms to protect the security of the free state. Not that any John and Jane Doe, can own weapons. So if you want to bear arms, join the military. That the right of the people, to bear arms in protection of the state. Not to bear arms in protection of your neighbor. |
"The right of the people" in EVERY SINGLE OTHER AMENDMENT REFERS TO INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS of the American citizen.
Why is that any different in the Second Amendment? Because you're uncomfortable with guns?
Raerae
Well-known member
Quote:
As a citizen, if you want to bear arms, join the military/law inforcement. How is that hard to understand?
The second amendment refers to the necessity of a militia. It was put in there because of the fact that the ability of the people to form a militia due to owning guns is part of what allowed the colonies to fight the civil war.
Civilians dont do protect the state anymore. Thus the need to bear arms to form a militia to protect the state is no longer necessary. If you feel the need to protect the state, as i said b4, join the military.
This isnt the colonial days where armies/police were not always around, and protecting your town from foreign nationals was necessary. it's 2007. And the need for every household to have a weapon is also unnecessary.
Perhaps if your so worried about the ability of the police to arrive on time, you should lobby towards getting a larger police budget, if your so worried about it. But that would mean higher taxes.
Quote:
I never said I was uncomfortable with them. I just think they are unnecessary, and cause more negatives on society than positives.
| Originally Posted by Shimmer
"The right of the people" in EVERY SINGLE OTHER AMENDMENT REFERS TO INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS of the American citizen. Why is that any different in the Second Amendment? |
As a citizen, if you want to bear arms, join the military/law inforcement. How is that hard to understand?
The second amendment refers to the necessity of a militia. It was put in there because of the fact that the ability of the people to form a militia due to owning guns is part of what allowed the colonies to fight the civil war.
Civilians dont do protect the state anymore. Thus the need to bear arms to form a militia to protect the state is no longer necessary. If you feel the need to protect the state, as i said b4, join the military.
This isnt the colonial days where armies/police were not always around, and protecting your town from foreign nationals was necessary. it's 2007. And the need for every household to have a weapon is also unnecessary.
Perhaps if your so worried about the ability of the police to arrive on time, you should lobby towards getting a larger police budget, if your so worried about it. But that would mean higher taxes.
Quote:
| Because you're uncomfortable with guns? |
I never said I was uncomfortable with them. I just think they are unnecessary, and cause more negatives on society than positives.
user79
Well-known member
I do think that the American society in general is one that is constantly paraliysed and manipulated with fear - fear or other culture, other countries, terrorism, robbery, your own neighbours, etc. etc. It's a very good way to scare the population and keep people under control, it's an old strategy that's worked for centuries and it's highly effective. I think this is a reason why a lot of Americans feel the need to have guns in the house. It's not so much that their right should be taken away, after all, you can get a gun licence in most western democracies, but people don't make use of it as much here because we don't have that same social fear of our environment.
Noam Chomsky is a person that has discussed America's fear at length, I think his discussions on it are quite interesting. I do think Texans are quite unique in some ways, I met a Texan girl when I was living in Canada, she was friends with my roomate. She was really fun, but I noticed she was really afraid, abnormally so. She couldn't, for example, sleep in her apartment alone if her roomate wasn't at home also. She had like 3 chains put onto the door. And I do think she also had a gun back in Texas.
Now, for Canada, this kind of behaviour is really abnormal. People are not afraid to walk around the streets alone at night, I've done it often. I just couldn't understand why this girl was always so scared...of everything!
But I think it does make sense now. If you're raised in a culture of fear, I don't think that is so easy to get out of the system. And the more you are afraid of others, the more you are liking to be aggressive to strangers, because you think they're all out to harm you. So in a way, if everyone is armed to the teeth and thinking, someone out there is coming to hurt them, I can see why accidental or non-accidental deaths become more common.
Oh and, an interesting fact, Switzerland has a mandatory military time for all Swiss males, and guess where they keep their military rifles? Yep, at home in their closet, or standing behind the door. But I seriously cannot remember the last newstory that appeared where someone was killed from such a rifle.
Noam Chomsky is a person that has discussed America's fear at length, I think his discussions on it are quite interesting. I do think Texans are quite unique in some ways, I met a Texan girl when I was living in Canada, she was friends with my roomate. She was really fun, but I noticed she was really afraid, abnormally so. She couldn't, for example, sleep in her apartment alone if her roomate wasn't at home also. She had like 3 chains put onto the door. And I do think she also had a gun back in Texas.
Now, for Canada, this kind of behaviour is really abnormal. People are not afraid to walk around the streets alone at night, I've done it often. I just couldn't understand why this girl was always so scared...of everything!
But I think it does make sense now. If you're raised in a culture of fear, I don't think that is so easy to get out of the system. And the more you are afraid of others, the more you are liking to be aggressive to strangers, because you think they're all out to harm you. So in a way, if everyone is armed to the teeth and thinking, someone out there is coming to hurt them, I can see why accidental or non-accidental deaths become more common.
Oh and, an interesting fact, Switzerland has a mandatory military time for all Swiss males, and guess where they keep their military rifles? Yep, at home in their closet, or standing behind the door. But I seriously cannot remember the last newstory that appeared where someone was killed from such a rifle.
Hawkeye
Well-known member
Why should somebody join an instituation if they simply want to own a firearm? That's repulsive. That's just like putting each little number inside yet another box.
And militias are very important and still in use today. Texas, New Mexico, Arizona- those states that border Mexico...how are they defending themselves against drug trafficers?
If guns are unnecessary- thats fine, you don't have to own one. That's YOUR choice. But do not try to persuade me to change my opinion on my freedoms of choice. My "god given" right that the constitution is talking about.
And militas they are very important, there is nothing (though it is improbable) that says that one day a mayor will go crazy and invade another state. The U.S. Army can't do anything about it- it violates all state rights unless that particular state asks for help against the crazy state.
*SIGH* I swear to God. I must be the only person to actually love my freedom and my individuality enough to not take this crap from any party that wants to take away my freedom of choice.
Sometimes I think we may as well live in Soviet Russia.
And militias are very important and still in use today. Texas, New Mexico, Arizona- those states that border Mexico...how are they defending themselves against drug trafficers?
If guns are unnecessary- thats fine, you don't have to own one. That's YOUR choice. But do not try to persuade me to change my opinion on my freedoms of choice. My "god given" right that the constitution is talking about.
And militas they are very important, there is nothing (though it is improbable) that says that one day a mayor will go crazy and invade another state. The U.S. Army can't do anything about it- it violates all state rights unless that particular state asks for help against the crazy state.
*SIGH* I swear to God. I must be the only person to actually love my freedom and my individuality enough to not take this crap from any party that wants to take away my freedom of choice.
Sometimes I think we may as well live in Soviet Russia.
Shimmer
Well-known member
Quote:
How hard is it to understand that the Second Amendment, just like all the other Amendments, specifically refers to the rights of the people. The "rights of the people" specifically refers to the rights of every individual American citizen, just like it does every single time it's mentioned in the rest of the Constitution. It's not a case of "Oh, that applies here but not there because well, I just don't like the idea of that applying right there...so we'll just skew the interpretation a little bit because well, most Americans are sheep anyway so they'll never notice."
No, Raerae, I notice. Hawkeye notices. Trunkmonkey notices. People like us notice when someone's trying to pull a double speak piece of bullshit propaganda over our eyes because some fucking moronic asshole decided to shoot someone, innocent or not. Guess what? Golf clubs are fucking perfect, and quite deadly weapons. Used in place of a firearm, I assure you, they can be just as deadly. Let's outlaw golf now. Tball bats are amazingly adept at causing damage. You ever see someone who got the shit beat out of them by a tball bat, or a baseball bat, or a golf club? I have, and it ain't fucking pretty. At least a bullet is mostly predictable. Those aren't, and they generally require more than one swing, and in doing so, cause substantially more damage. Say good bye to America's pasttime and Tiger Woods' career.
It's unrealistic, and it's stupid. You want to hand over your civil liberties? Do so. Please. By all means. But don't fucking hand over mine as well because you don't have that right.
You DO have the right to walk down the street unmolested, but I also have the right to defend myself in the situation that you decide to attack me, and I will do so, with deadly force if need be.
And, you're mistakenly laying blame for crime on an inanimate object. A gun does not cause a crime. It has no mind to do so. It is incapable of firing itself (barring mechanical malfunction).
PEOPLE have brought more negatives than positives, NOT guns. PEOPLE.
Lets outlaw people too. And males between the age of 18 and 32. They're kind of dangerous.
Oh, and yappy dogs. They bite, so we need to get rid of them.
Shit.
Toddlers bit too....we need to boot them out of the populace. One bite and we need to put the little tyke down. Who knows what violence he's capable of!!
Julia, the female you're talking about is honestly, from any female I know in Texas, an anomaly. That's not to say there aren't people here like that but there are people every where like that.
As far as mandatory military time, I'm all for that, male or female. Regardless of race, age, color, creed, gender, sexuality, or religion, I believe everyone should wear the BDUs and serve Uncle SAm for awhile.
| Originally Posted by Raerae
As a citizen, if you want to bear arms, join the military/law inforcement. How is that hard to understand? The second amendment refers to the necessity of a militia. It was put in there because of the fact that the ability of the people to form a militia due to owning guns is part of what allowed the colonies to fight the civil war. Civilians dont do protect the state anymore. Thus the need to bear arms to form a militia to protect the state is no longer necessary. If you feel the need to protect the state, as i said b4, join the military. This isnt the colonial days where armies/police were not always around, and protecting your town from foreign nationals was necessary. it's 2007. And the need for every household to have a weapon is also unnecessary. Perhaps if your so worried about the ability of the police to arrive on time, you should lobby towards getting a larger police budget, if your so worried about it. But that would mean higher taxes. I never said I was uncomfortable with them. I just think they are unnecessary, and cause more negatives on society than positives. |
How hard is it to understand that the Second Amendment, just like all the other Amendments, specifically refers to the rights of the people. The "rights of the people" specifically refers to the rights of every individual American citizen, just like it does every single time it's mentioned in the rest of the Constitution. It's not a case of "Oh, that applies here but not there because well, I just don't like the idea of that applying right there...so we'll just skew the interpretation a little bit because well, most Americans are sheep anyway so they'll never notice."
No, Raerae, I notice. Hawkeye notices. Trunkmonkey notices. People like us notice when someone's trying to pull a double speak piece of bullshit propaganda over our eyes because some fucking moronic asshole decided to shoot someone, innocent or not. Guess what? Golf clubs are fucking perfect, and quite deadly weapons. Used in place of a firearm, I assure you, they can be just as deadly. Let's outlaw golf now. Tball bats are amazingly adept at causing damage. You ever see someone who got the shit beat out of them by a tball bat, or a baseball bat, or a golf club? I have, and it ain't fucking pretty. At least a bullet is mostly predictable. Those aren't, and they generally require more than one swing, and in doing so, cause substantially more damage. Say good bye to America's pasttime and Tiger Woods' career.
It's unrealistic, and it's stupid. You want to hand over your civil liberties? Do so. Please. By all means. But don't fucking hand over mine as well because you don't have that right.
You DO have the right to walk down the street unmolested, but I also have the right to defend myself in the situation that you decide to attack me, and I will do so, with deadly force if need be.
And, you're mistakenly laying blame for crime on an inanimate object. A gun does not cause a crime. It has no mind to do so. It is incapable of firing itself (barring mechanical malfunction).
PEOPLE have brought more negatives than positives, NOT guns. PEOPLE.
Lets outlaw people too. And males between the age of 18 and 32. They're kind of dangerous.
Oh, and yappy dogs. They bite, so we need to get rid of them.
Shit.
Toddlers bit too....we need to boot them out of the populace. One bite and we need to put the little tyke down. Who knows what violence he's capable of!!
Julia, the female you're talking about is honestly, from any female I know in Texas, an anomaly. That's not to say there aren't people here like that but there are people every where like that.
As far as mandatory military time, I'm all for that, male or female. Regardless of race, age, color, creed, gender, sexuality, or religion, I believe everyone should wear the BDUs and serve Uncle SAm for awhile.
Shimmer
Well-known member
It's a matter of accountability.
The GUN is not to blame for a crime. Never has been, and never will be.
The PERSON is to blame for the crime. Place the blame ON THE PERSON with serious enough consequences and stop making excuses about how mommy didn't breastfeed him long enough and daddy didn't take him fishing often enough.
The GUN is not to blame for a crime. Never has been, and never will be.
The PERSON is to blame for the crime. Place the blame ON THE PERSON with serious enough consequences and stop making excuses about how mommy didn't breastfeed him long enough and daddy didn't take him fishing often enough.
knoxydoll
Well-known member
Wow this discussion has gotten really intense.
I don't think I'd personally ever own a gun. I do know how and have shot guns before. Which isn't common for girls in my demographic since I live in the suburbs of Canada; but we're farmers on my Mom's side of the family. The reason I'd never own a gun is because I trust myself much more than a weapon. I've been trained in self-defense and I used to box people who were bigger than me, and I work in security and often have to "escort" violent males out of my workspace. I just don't often feel overpowered when I should be feeling that.
Back to the orignal topic of the door thing. When I'm home alone I usually have the alarm on but the doors unlocked when it's still light out. I live in a good part of town and most people don't even know my street exists so I only feel the need to have it locked when it's dark. I usually answer the door when I'm home alone because I'm not scared of who's on the other side and I'm usually holding onto a dog who's barking at the person on the other side of the door. That is a big deturant for people surprisingly. My dog isn't huge and is really friendly and wouldn't probably lick someone to death before he'd attack them.
However my boyfriend lives in a shady part of town and I don't even like walking around alone outside near his place; I've had people follow me to his house before when I've taken the bus. (It's a house that's been split into four apartments) Thankfully I know that as long as I get close enough to the house someone inside (either one of his roomates, his best friend or the guys in the apartment next to me) will hear me scream if need be. There was a incident in the summer where one of the renovaters came back one day and buzzed my bfs apartment saying he was there to fix the toilet and Jason (Boyfriend's roomates) let him in. He left after a few minutes saying he had to go get some parts, but really went downstairs to another apartment that has three female tenants. He told the girl that there had been a leak upstairs and needed to check her bathroom. She let him in and he cornered her in a room and attempted to rape her. She got away and called the police and the landlord. Needless to say he's not allowed back to the property or within 100 yards. But it's pretty scary because I'm often at my boyfriend's place waiting for him to get home and that could have been me and not the girl. This dude was really shady though and I wasn't even comfortable around him when people were around. He also stole from my boyfriend and his roomates.
MY advice for people is to trust your instinct if someone seems shady they most likely are. Get them or yourself out of the situation quickly; and if that isn't possible get someone else involved.
I don't think I'd personally ever own a gun. I do know how and have shot guns before. Which isn't common for girls in my demographic since I live in the suburbs of Canada; but we're farmers on my Mom's side of the family. The reason I'd never own a gun is because I trust myself much more than a weapon. I've been trained in self-defense and I used to box people who were bigger than me, and I work in security and often have to "escort" violent males out of my workspace. I just don't often feel overpowered when I should be feeling that.
Back to the orignal topic of the door thing. When I'm home alone I usually have the alarm on but the doors unlocked when it's still light out. I live in a good part of town and most people don't even know my street exists so I only feel the need to have it locked when it's dark. I usually answer the door when I'm home alone because I'm not scared of who's on the other side and I'm usually holding onto a dog who's barking at the person on the other side of the door. That is a big deturant for people surprisingly. My dog isn't huge and is really friendly and wouldn't probably lick someone to death before he'd attack them.
However my boyfriend lives in a shady part of town and I don't even like walking around alone outside near his place; I've had people follow me to his house before when I've taken the bus. (It's a house that's been split into four apartments) Thankfully I know that as long as I get close enough to the house someone inside (either one of his roomates, his best friend or the guys in the apartment next to me) will hear me scream if need be. There was a incident in the summer where one of the renovaters came back one day and buzzed my bfs apartment saying he was there to fix the toilet and Jason (Boyfriend's roomates) let him in. He left after a few minutes saying he had to go get some parts, but really went downstairs to another apartment that has three female tenants. He told the girl that there had been a leak upstairs and needed to check her bathroom. She let him in and he cornered her in a room and attempted to rape her. She got away and called the police and the landlord. Needless to say he's not allowed back to the property or within 100 yards. But it's pretty scary because I'm often at my boyfriend's place waiting for him to get home and that could have been me and not the girl. This dude was really shady though and I wasn't even comfortable around him when people were around. He also stole from my boyfriend and his roomates.
MY advice for people is to trust your instinct if someone seems shady they most likely are. Get them or yourself out of the situation quickly; and if that isn't possible get someone else involved.
Beauty Mark
Well-known member
MissChievous- I think there are legitimate fears... I don't walk around late at night by myself. I live in a safe neighborhood, but stuff happens. I'm a very small woman who lives in a city. The roommate thing is odd, but I think some of the things she does were normal and smart.
I've experienced the opposite of you. In college, people would never lock their doors, even at night. I went to a college where people thought it was fine to let anyone into the dorm (we didn't have guards or anything like that), and there were reports of theft frequently. I think some assaults happened as a result of that, but they never made the police blotter. I personally never felt safe, so I locked my door.
As for guns... I think it's all matter of how you perceive the 2nd and its purpose. I think you should be allowed to have a gun, but I think there definitely needs to be tight laws as to who has them.
I've experienced the opposite of you. In college, people would never lock their doors, even at night. I went to a college where people thought it was fine to let anyone into the dorm (we didn't have guards or anything like that), and there were reports of theft frequently. I think some assaults happened as a result of that, but they never made the police blotter. I personally never felt safe, so I locked my door.
As for guns... I think it's all matter of how you perceive the 2nd and its purpose. I think you should be allowed to have a gun, but I think there definitely needs to be tight laws as to who has them.
Hawkeye
Well-known member
Quote:
amen.
It annoys the hell outta me when people actually blame an inanimate object that can't think for itself (as you mentioned) on killing people.
How does that happen?
It baffles me.
Anyone with any form of intelligence knows that an inanimate object cannot just randomly fire for the hell of it. But they want to blame it.
They do it because they don't like to admit that mankind is unpredicatable. They don't like to put blame on mankind. The PERSON made the decision to kill not the gun. Just like with this recent molestation case here in GA. The PERSON (People?) Chose to molest the kid. Not a stick.
They don't want to hold people responsible. Few people really do. I mean they will make excuses for them all F'in day long. The person had a bad childhood. The person got yelled at. The person had this happen to them.
Excuses. That all it is.
Nobody- most of these people realize that somewhere- regardless of whatever the hell happened- that at that particular moment the person who pulled the trigger to kill someone (if it is a crime) made a decision. It was a logical decision. They should and must be held accountable for their decision in pulling the trigger.
But instead of doing that- because GOD FORBID we hold somebody accountable in this world. GOD FORBID IT lets outlaw an inanimate object that has no brain, cannot think, cannot make decisions and really is perfectly predictable because if it's laying somewhere it sure as hell isn't going to go off.
Remember- we can't blame the person. That would be insensitve.
*rolls eyes*
It just infuriates me how baffling it is to hear how people want to outlaw guns.
It really just boils down to nothing more than accountability.
And with accountability is responsibility and what do we know that most governments not want its individuals to have because it takes away the need for big government?
RESPONSIBILITY!
Instead let us be all happy and believe in marshmellowed rainbows and flowers dangling in the air and never think anything bad about anybody because its insensitive and place all our blames on nothing more than inanimate objects that are rather predictable.
| Originally Posted by Shimmer
It's a matter of accountability. The GUN is not to blame for a crime. Never has been, and never will be. The PERSON is to blame for the crime. Place the blame ON THE PERSON with serious enough consequences and stop making excuses about how mommy didn't breastfeed him long enough and daddy didn't take him fishing often enough. |
amen.
It annoys the hell outta me when people actually blame an inanimate object that can't think for itself (as you mentioned) on killing people.
How does that happen?
It baffles me.
Anyone with any form of intelligence knows that an inanimate object cannot just randomly fire for the hell of it. But they want to blame it.
They do it because they don't like to admit that mankind is unpredicatable. They don't like to put blame on mankind. The PERSON made the decision to kill not the gun. Just like with this recent molestation case here in GA. The PERSON (People?) Chose to molest the kid. Not a stick.
They don't want to hold people responsible. Few people really do. I mean they will make excuses for them all F'in day long. The person had a bad childhood. The person got yelled at. The person had this happen to them.
Excuses. That all it is.
Nobody- most of these people realize that somewhere- regardless of whatever the hell happened- that at that particular moment the person who pulled the trigger to kill someone (if it is a crime) made a decision. It was a logical decision. They should and must be held accountable for their decision in pulling the trigger.
But instead of doing that- because GOD FORBID we hold somebody accountable in this world. GOD FORBID IT lets outlaw an inanimate object that has no brain, cannot think, cannot make decisions and really is perfectly predictable because if it's laying somewhere it sure as hell isn't going to go off.
Remember- we can't blame the person. That would be insensitve.
*rolls eyes*
It just infuriates me how baffling it is to hear how people want to outlaw guns.
It really just boils down to nothing more than accountability.
And with accountability is responsibility and what do we know that most governments not want its individuals to have because it takes away the need for big government?
RESPONSIBILITY!
Instead let us be all happy and believe in marshmellowed rainbows and flowers dangling in the air and never think anything bad about anybody because its insensitive and place all our blames on nothing more than inanimate objects that are rather predictable.
Raerae
Well-known member
Quote:
Yes it states you have the right to own a fire arm for the intent of having it availible to form a militia to protect the state.
The last time I checked, we haven't needed any militias to ward off invading countries.
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Guns make it signifigantly more difficult to protect yourself from harm, especially in the event that your the person not armed with one. If someone has a golf club, and is intent on causing sever bodily harm, at least I have a chance to run. Not to mention I have a much better chance of getting help from someone if i'm not being attacked with a gun. Most people will not assist anyone if the person causing violence is armed with a fire arm, there is too much chance they will suffer deadly force. And not everyone has the strength to cause deadly force with a blunt weapon. Or the stomache to carry it out. It's a lot harder decision to use deadly force thats upfront and personal, than it is to pull a trigger from the distance where your seperated from most of the violence being inflicted upon another.
I'm sorry you live in a neighborhood where people "beat the shit" out of each other with tball bats. I really am.
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You can't compare the ease of deadly force a fire arm gives the user, with that of any other typical weapon, be it a golf club, spork, or chop stick. Guns enable crimes, like drive by shootings and school massacres, that woulnd't be possible w/out them.
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Spoken like a true military lemming.
| Originally Posted by Shimmer
How hard is it to understand that the Second Amendment, just like all the other Amendments, specifically refers to the rights of the people. The "rights of the people" specifically refers to the rights of every individual American citizen, just like it does every single time it's mentioned in the rest of the Constitution. It's not a case of "Oh, that applies here but not there because well, I just don't like the idea of that applying right there...so we'll just skew the interpretation a little bit because well, most Americans are sheep anyway so they'll never notice." |
Yes it states you have the right to own a fire arm for the intent of having it availible to form a militia to protect the state.
The last time I checked, we haven't needed any militias to ward off invading countries.
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| No, Raerae, I notice. Hawkeye notices. Trunkmonkey notices. People like us notice when someone's trying to pull a double speak piece of bullshit propaganda over our eyes because some fucking moronic asshole decided to shoot someone, innocent or not. Guess what? Golf clubs are fucking perfect, and quite deadly weapons. Used in place of a firearm, I assure you, they can be just as deadly. Let's outlaw golf now. Tball bats are amazingly adept at causing damage. You ever see someone who got the shit beat out of them by a tball bat, or a baseball bat, or a golf club? I have, and it ain't fucking pretty. At least a bullet is mostly predictable. Those aren't, and they generally require more than one swing, and in doing so, cause substantially more damage. Say good bye to America's pasttime and Tiger Woods' career. It's unrealistic, and it's stupid. You want to hand over your civil liberties? Do so. Please. By all means. But don't fucking hand over mine as well because you don't have that right. You DO have the right to walk down the street unmolested, but I also have the right to defend myself in the situation that you decide to attack me, and I will do so, with deadly force if need be. |
Guns make it signifigantly more difficult to protect yourself from harm, especially in the event that your the person not armed with one. If someone has a golf club, and is intent on causing sever bodily harm, at least I have a chance to run. Not to mention I have a much better chance of getting help from someone if i'm not being attacked with a gun. Most people will not assist anyone if the person causing violence is armed with a fire arm, there is too much chance they will suffer deadly force. And not everyone has the strength to cause deadly force with a blunt weapon. Or the stomache to carry it out. It's a lot harder decision to use deadly force thats upfront and personal, than it is to pull a trigger from the distance where your seperated from most of the violence being inflicted upon another.
I'm sorry you live in a neighborhood where people "beat the shit" out of each other with tball bats. I really am.
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| And, you're mistakenly laying blame for crime on an inanimate object. A gun does not cause a crime. It has no mind to do so. It is incapable of firing itself (barring mechanical malfunction). PEOPLE have brought more negatives than positives, NOT guns. PEOPLE. Lets outlaw people too. And males between the age of 18 and 32. They're kind of dangerous. Oh, and yappy dogs. They bite, so we need to get rid of them. Shit. Toddlers bit too....we need to boot them out of the populace. One bite and we need to put the little tyke down. Who knows what violence he's capable of!! |
You can't compare the ease of deadly force a fire arm gives the user, with that of any other typical weapon, be it a golf club, spork, or chop stick. Guns enable crimes, like drive by shootings and school massacres, that woulnd't be possible w/out them.
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| As far as mandatory military time, I'm all for that, male or female. Regardless of race, age, color, creed, gender, sexuality, or religion, I believe everyone should wear the BDUs and serve Uncle SAm for awhile. |
Spoken like a true military lemming.
Hawkeye
Well-known member
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Chances are they would've hit you in the head before you even had a chance to run. Once a person has hit your head or your neck that gives ample time to beat you to death.
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Anyone who can pull a trigger can beat someone up with a blunt object. Again, most people who would do it would aim for the head first and then attack the rest.
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This is probably because the person is screaming help. It is true that if you scream for help people will not want to get involved. Probably because many people scream it and it's not really an emergency. Yell Fire and you got a crowd.
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Oh yes yes, what about knives? You can easily kill someone with a knife. Same with a rope. You can always break somebodies neck. That's pretty easy too. Same with a car. You wanna kill someone it's easy to run over them with a car. Same with a brick. Throw it at the persons head.
You can easily compare the ease of deadly force.
Trust me, if somebody wants to kill somebody bad enough then killing someone with any tool is rather easy.
| If someone has a golf club, and is intent on causing sever bodily harm, at least I have a chance to run. |
Chances are they would've hit you in the head before you even had a chance to run. Once a person has hit your head or your neck that gives ample time to beat you to death.
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| And not everyone has the strength to cause deadly force with a blunt weapon. |
Anyone who can pull a trigger can beat someone up with a blunt object. Again, most people who would do it would aim for the head first and then attack the rest.
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| Most people will not assist anyone if the person causing violence is armed with a fire arm, there is too much chance they will suffer deadly force. |
This is probably because the person is screaming help. It is true that if you scream for help people will not want to get involved. Probably because many people scream it and it's not really an emergency. Yell Fire and you got a crowd.
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| You can't compare the ease of deadly force a fire arm gives the user, with that of any other typical weapon, be it a golf club, spork, or chop stick. Guns enable crimes, like drive by shootings and school massacres, that woulnd't be possible w/out them. |
Oh yes yes, what about knives? You can easily kill someone with a knife. Same with a rope. You can always break somebodies neck. That's pretty easy too. Same with a car. You wanna kill someone it's easy to run over them with a car. Same with a brick. Throw it at the persons head.
You can easily compare the ease of deadly force.
Trust me, if somebody wants to kill somebody bad enough then killing someone with any tool is rather easy.
Raerae
Well-known member
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Society is selfish, and people typically want their cake and to eat it too. You all talk about letting each person be held accountable for their own actions. But in reality it doesn't work that way. People impose their views and beliefs on others all the time. This subject just happens to be a tender one for a few people for once =p
| Originally Posted by Hawkeye
yadda yadda for space |
Society is selfish, and people typically want their cake and to eat it too. You all talk about letting each person be held accountable for their own actions. But in reality it doesn't work that way. People impose their views and beliefs on others all the time. This subject just happens to be a tender one for a few people for once =p
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