Please be VERY VERY Careful

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by glamdoll but u see those people who have been "brainwashed" are fighting w/ guns ur FREEDOM to say that about them, and their establishment.

Go overseas and see how the average person views our country because of the wannabe imperialism foreign policy we've been engaging in. And realistically, the freedom of average Joe America has never been in question, not in a long time. An invasion of America in the modern world would be near impossible for any of the countries we have invaded in the last 50 years. And the countries that *might* have the capabiity, we are too busy funneling our economy into because we want cheap Walmart prices. While blindly looking the other way as their military budget and technology are increasing at record levels every year.

The fact is, if the members of our military are so morally lacking that they would fire on their own citizens without question because they were, "following orders." Then the citizens of our country have a right to question the institution, and it's policies. There is more to honor than following orders without question.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by Hawkeye Nobody is hating on seinfeild raerae- here is a brilliant thought- and I know this is impossible to fathom-- why not put my name in the post instead of changing my words because my redundant response is the exact same as YOUR redundant response? *GASP* Oh dear God what a novel idea. SOMEBODY! I hit on something brilliant, CALL THE MEDIA! Call the copyright people- I have to copyright this brilliant idea before somebody takes it!

I think your getting overly sensitive over nothing. Yadda.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer Stop trying to legislate responsibility. That's not going to do anything. Legislation simply removes personal responsibility. Try educating instead of legislating. Teach people, indoctrinate as to why it's a bad idea to shoot someone. Teach the value of human life. Simply legislating weapons doesn't fix the problem. Legislating doesn't change the fact that children are being taught blatant disregard for human life. Legislation doesn't change the fact that no one feels personal responsibility for their actions. Legislation isn't the answer, a change at the core of the home is necessary. THAT is what will make innocents safe. And, like I said, you're revealing your ignorance. You have no idea why or or what within the military. Educate yourself, until you do, stop talking about things you know nothing about. A government who will rule their people by fear and oppression has no qualms with ruling and commanding its soldiers by fear and oppression.

You dont want to pay higher taxes to educate people.

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by Raerae You dont want to pay higher taxes to educate people.

Incorrect.
I dont' want to pay higher taxes for useless pork stuffed bills to go through legislation.

I want John and Betsy Doe down the street to raise their kid. I want our kids to be taught personal accountability.
That kind of education, my dear, is free.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by Beauty Mark Would you be opposed to a license like a driver's license, where one would have to undergo training and testing in order to have a gun? Even though it's potentially offensive to others, I think it's important that we question establishments and practices. It's just the matter of how one does it. I think the armed forces does some good and some bad personally. I don't believe that the army brainwashes everyone, because God knows I've known my share of folks who walk away from service thinking it's a corrupt institution.

I think that something needs to be changes about current gun laws. Background checks are not enough. The fact of the matter is, had the weapon technology we have today, been around when the framers put together the constitution, the wording of the 2nd amendment would not be so open.

Tell yah what Shimmer. You can have the types of guns that were availible during the colonial period, and I wont have a problem with it. You know, single shot, hand loaded rifles and handguns. I have absoluteley no problem with people having that type of fire arm.

As technology changes, the laws that govern the availibility, accessability, and use of such technology needs to be updated to stay current. The 2nd amendment isn't a greenlight to have any type of firearm, regardless of lethality, just because limitations for technologies not yet invented were not included in the wording.

And yes, I think testing/training/liscenseing is a good start.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer Incorrect. I dont' want to pay higher taxes for useless pork stuffed bills to go through legislation.

Considering how often incumbent canidates are re-elected, people seem to like pork.

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I want John and Betsy Doe down the street to raise their kid. I want our kids to be taught personal accountability. That kind of education, my dear, is free.

Personal accountability doesn't get you accepted into college and give you the chance to raise you standard of living. When schools dont have the money to pay for books for every student, or the funding availible to hire enough teachers, or the ability to use newer technology to help student have a better chance at success, there is a problem.

You can argue all you want, but our nation would be much better off spending the budget thats allocated on fighting pointless wars, on domestic policies. The billions spent on Afghanistan and Iraq could have gone a long way to righting a lot of the wrongs still going on in our own country.

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by Raerae I think that something needs to be changes about current gun laws. Background checks are not enough. The fact of the matter is, had the weapon technology we have today, been around when the framers put together the constitution, the wording of the 2nd amendment would not be so open. Tell yah what Shimmer. You can have the types of guns that were availible during the colonial period, and I wont have a problem with it. You know, single shot, hand loaded rifles and handguns. I have absoluteley no problem with people having that type of fire arm. As technology changes, the laws that govern the availibility, accessability, and use of such technology needs to be updated to stay current. The 2nd amendment isn't a greenlight to have any type of firearm, regardless of lethality, just because limitations for technologies not yet invented were not included in the wording. And yes, I think testing/training/liscenseing is a good start.

I didn't say the 2nd Amendment was the greenlight for any kind of firearm anytime. That's foolish. No civilian needs an assault rifle, though they are fun to shoot.
That said, you need to get your opinion straight, and stop flip flopping. First it was GUNS R BAD!!!!!111eleventy!
Now it's welllll I guess THESE kinds of guns are okay, but not those cuz those kind are too skurry.

And the Constitution was deliberately worded the way it was worded specifically with an eye to the future.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer I didn't say the 2nd Amendment was the greenlight for any kind of firearm anytime. That's foolish. No civilian needs an assault rifle, though they are fun to shoot. That said, you need to get your opinion straight, and stop flip flopping. First it was GUNS R BAD!!!!!111eleventy! Now it's welllll I guess THESE kinds of guns are okay, but not those cuz those kind are too skurry. And the Constitution was deliberately worded the way it was worded specifically with an eye to the future.

It's a fluid conversation shimmer.

Keep up.

Were not talking about the same points as a few pages back.

Not to mention I'm allowed to change and edit my position as new points and arguments are brought to the table. Unlike yourself, i'm flexible in my opinion when good valid points are brought up.

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by Raerae Considering how often incumbent canidates are re-elected, people seem to like pork.

That's hardly a result of people's inviolate opinion, and more due to the lack of options due to the incredible cost of campaigning.

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Personal accountability doesn't get you accepted into college and give you the chance to raise you standard of living. When schools dont have the money to pay for books for every student, or the funding availible to hire enough teachers, or the ability to use newer technology to help student have a better chance at success, there is a problem.

The hell it doesn't! You want to go to school? You're responsible for making your grades, buying your books, and getting your education. NOT anyone else. YOU are. YOU want those things, YOU are responsible for WORKING FOR THEM. Don't sit there and play the victim and say "ohhh life's so hard it's not fair" because you know what? No one on this planet owes you a damn thing. You want something? Get off your pretty little ass and EARN IT. Stop expecting hand outs, stop expecting legs up. Stop expecting anything from anyone, and make your own way. Stop abdicating your own personal responsibility.
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You can argue all you want, but our nation would be much better off spending the budget thats allocated on fighting pointless wars, on domestic policies. The billions spent on Afghanistan and Iraq could have gone a long way to righting a lot of the wrongs still going on in our own country.

And all those years we weren't "fighting pointless wars" that money sure did do a LOT for this country didn't it? I mean, good golly, Reagan wasn't embroiled in an active war, neither was Bush, Sr. (The Persian Gulf war was over much faster than this one.), and Clinton, no, he wasn't actively engaged in combat either, so there *should* have been TRILLIONS of dollars spent, by your argument, to better the nation. But they weren't and they won't be.
People in power want to remain in power. People like you are their dream constituent. Follow the trends, do what the MSM tells you to do, support the latest "cause du jour" and shut up and don't question anything.

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by Raerae It's a fluid conversation shimmer. Keep up. Were not talking about the same points as a few pages back. Not to mention I'm allowed to change and edit my position as new points and arguments are brought to the table. Unlike yourself, i'm flexible in my opinion when good valid points are brought up.

Of course it's a fluid conversation, but you're not changing your perspective when good points are brought up, you're changing your perspective so you look less ignorant to the unnamed masses who are lurking reading this thread right now.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer That's hardly a result of people's inviolate opinion, and more due to the lack of options due to the incredible cost of campaigning.

Times are changing. While campaigning is still expensive, it's becommnig less expensive as "traditional" forms of advertising, like TV, paper, etc, are being replaced by free media on-line. As the availibility of the internet increases, i fully expect to see a change in the way politics and campaigning is done.


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The hell it doesn't! You want to go to school? You're responsible for making your grades, buying your books, and getting your education. NOT anyone else. YOU are. YOU want those things, YOU are responsible for WORKING FOR THEM.

Sweetie, public gradeschool children dont buy their own books. It's the government's job to provide an education to the public while they attend public school. That includes books, computers, access to current events through things like TV's being availible in every classrooms. Not to mention having a large enough facility to have classrooms that aren't understaffed and over crowded. And also having the reasources availible to build new facilities to accomodate a growing population. That also includes having a budget that allows for hiring of more teachers and assistant staff to ensure that children in a classroom get the proper attention that they deserve, and aren't neglected because of overcrowding in the school systems.

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Don't sit there and play the victim and say "ohhh life's so hard it's not fair" because you know what? No one on this planet owes you a damn thing. You want something? Get off your pretty little ass and EARN IT. Stop expecting hand outs, stop expecting legs up. Stop expecting anything from anyone, and make your own way. Stop abdicating your own personal responsibility.

Again, typical ignorant Shimmer response. What was that about wool? If you think the education were providing to children these days is a good one, you really need to go back to school. Because the reality of the matter is, were doing our children these days a severe disservice, and putting the future (our children are our future) at risk.

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And all those years we weren't "fighting pointless wars" that money sure did do a LOT for this country didn't it? I mean, good golly, Reagan wasn't embroiled in an active war, neither was Bush, Sr. (The Persian Gulf war was over much faster than this one.), and Clinton, no, he wasn't actively engaged in combat either, so there *should* have been TRILLIONS of dollars spent, by your argument, to better the nation. But they weren't and they won't be. People in power want to remain in power. People like you are their dream constituent. Follow the trends, do what the MSM tells you to do, support the latest "cause du jour" and shut up and don't question anything.

Argue all you want. Our military budget could have been invested in much better ways than wasting America's time, and lives. And the past is what lays the foundation of the future. Had better decisions been made by former presidents, a lot of the mess were in today could have been avoided. The whole fiasco that is the Middle East is just the fruits of our labors during the cold war.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer Of course it's a fluid conversation, but you're not changing your perspective when good points are brought up, you're changing your perspective so you look less ignorant to the unnamed masses who are lurking reading this thread right now.

Actually I changed my position based on what Hawkeye said. Because unlike yourself, she has good points. You just repeat the same "what if" arguments over and over.

 

[Hawkeye]

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Originally Posted by Raerae I think your getting overly sensitive over nothing. Yadda.

Overly sensitive? Nope. I Just don't like having something put where I said something when in fact I never said it.

It's just one of those things.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by Hawkeye Overly sensitive? Nope. I Just don't like having something put where I said something when in fact I never said it. It's just one of those things.

I think your average Specktra reader knew the intent.

 

[Hawkeye]

It's more the principle of the matter more than anything.

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by Raerae Times are changing. While campaigning is still expensive, it's becommnig less expensive as "traditional" forms of advertising, like TV, paper, etc, are being replaced by free media on-line. As the availibility of the internet increases, i fully expect to see a change in the way politics and campaigning is done.

Sure.
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Sweetie, public gradeschool children dont buy their own books. It's the government's job to provide an education to the public while they attend public school. That includes books, computers, access to current events through things like TV's being availible in every classrooms. Not to mention having a large enough facility to have classrooms that aren't understaffed and over crowded. And also having the reasources availible to build new facilities to accomodate a growing population. That also includes having a budget that allows for hiring of more teachers and assistant staff to ensure that children in a classroom get the proper attention that they deserve, and aren't neglected because of overcrowding in the school systems.

Public school children are taught, their parents are responsible for pursuing their educational benefit. Parents take a lassez faire approach to education, putting the responsibility on the school system for it, instead of making sure the kids are actually learning.
You don't need tvs in the classrooms to learn. You don't need gadgets and whizbang materials. You need kids to value education, which is something they're not taught.
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Again, typical ignorant Shimmer response. What was that about wool? If you think the education were providing to children these days is a good one, you really need to go back to school. Because the reality of the matter is, were doing our children these days a severe disservice, and putting the future (our children are our future) at risk.

LOL riiiiight. I'm not saying our kids are getting perfect educations, but I am saying, and will continue to say, the kids aren't being taught the value of the education they're receiving.
You're a prime example. How many times on this board do you mistake "your/you're", "we're/were", "there/their/they're" and "definitely/definately"? We won't even mention the number of fragmented sentences, your poor syntax, and disregard for grammatical rules.
When these things are pointed out to you, your response is "OH its just the internet, noone cares about that neway."
Value your education.
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Argue all you want. Our military budget could have been invested in much better ways than wasting America's time, and lives. And the past is what lays the foundation of the future. Had better decisions been made by former presidents, a lot of the mess were in today could have been avoided. The whole fiasco that is the Middle East is just the fruits of our labors during the cold war.

Yes, weakening our military is the PERFECT solution. Way to go.

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by Raerae Actually I changed my position based on what Hawkeye said. Because unlike yourself, she has good points. You just repeat the same "what if" arguments over and over.

No you didn't. You changed your position because your original stance was crumbling.

 

[sharyn]

Opening doors is dangerous bussines these days. Everyone knows you shouldnt let strangers in, but one day a former good friend of mine was at the door and since I hadnt seen him in like, 6 months of course I let him in when he said he just wanted to come by and say hi. well, while talking to he droped the sentence "oh, yeah, I spend some time in a nuthouse... they like locked my into this house for like, no reason... can you imagine that? good I am so happy I could escape... but the cops are still after me."

I was like...

then told him I wanted to smoke a cigarette and for that, we need to get out of the house and sit down in the garden. soon as he was out of the door, I shut it and called the police. so yeah, I dont ever answer the door when I am home alone and if my friends want to come over, they call me when they're at the door.

 

[Raerae]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer Sure. Public school children are taught, their parents are responsible for pursuing their educational benefit. Parents take a lassez faire approach to education, putting the responsibility on the school system for it, instead of making sure the kids are actually learning.

It's kinda hard for parents, who were given the same McEducation to teach their children, when they themselves are lacking education. The blind can't lead the blind Shimmer. Public school children are not getting a proper education when they are crammed 40-50 students into a classroom with 1 teacher. Who is going to help them learn when their parents dont understand the subjects they are being taught. There is a reason "Are you Smarter Than a 5th Grader" is such a funny show. But it clearly shows the education gap in this country. If the parents aren't educated on the subjects they are being taught, and the teachers dont have time to properly address the questions in their classrooms (it's a known fact the more students in a classroom you have, the more intimidating it is for a child to raise their hand to ask for help), how are they supposed to learn? Pretending it isn't a problem is not the answer. blaming uneducated parents for not helping their students isn't an answer.

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You don't need tvs in the classrooms to learn. You don't need gadgets and whizbang materials. You need kids to value education, which is something they're not taught.

It's also a fairly common fact that schools that have the money to take advantage of new technology, have a higher success rate of getting through to students. It's pretty ignorant to say, "screw technology, lets do it the old fashioned way." Your sounding like my Grandpa now, talking about "back in the day." We are not going to stay a superpower by ignoring technology and the ositive impact it can have on the classroom. You teach kids to value education by getting them interested in learning. Using out dated techniques that dont speak the same language as today's generation is not the answer.



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LOL riiiiight. I'm not saying our kids are getting perfect educations, but I am saying, and will continue to say, the kids aren't being taught the value of the education they're receiving. You're a prime example. How many times on this board do you mistake "your/you're", "we're/were", "there/their/they're" and "definitely/definately"? We won't even mention the number of fragmented sentences, your poor syntax, and disregard for grammatical rules. When these things are pointed out to you, your response is "OH its just the internet, noone cares about that neway." Value your education.

Kids need to have parents that value the value of education. But when their parents never got a proper education, and their parents didn't have a proper education, it's up to the public schools to break the cycle. This is one topic I thought it would be a pretty much no brainer when it comes to agreeing. But you still find a way to argue against making positive changes to society.

And I will take the time to correct my spelling and grammar when it matters. Personally I dont find the 1-2 minutes i spend giving you a response worth taking another few minutes to spell/grammar check. When as soon as I finish this, I need to get back to do other pressing things. Unlike yourself, I'm not a stay home mom with hours to spend on-line killing time while the kids play Wii in the living room. I value my education when it matters. It matters when money is involved. As i'm not being paid to present an argument, or being given a grade on making sure my thesis is perfect, i'm not in any hurry to re-read my post for the grammar nazi's.

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Yes, weakening our military is the PERFECT solution. Way to go.

But we dont need a military Shimmer. Since you have a gun, you can just form a militia if we ever need protection.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Oh man, that's scary. Did the police catch him?