Ricky Martin flips off president..

[MAC_Whore]

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Originally Posted by amoona That's the point, it does nothing. Its no big deal. Who cares he flipped off Bush? No biggie to me. It doesn't make me think Ricky Martin is stupid or childish.

I see what your saying. Conversely though, while it may be no biggie to you, for some it is a big deal. Pres. Bush is the leader of their country and Ricky Martin giving him the finger is a huge sign of disrespect. Remember that it is all subjective. So while you may not care about the President of the USA being insulted, or think that the gesture is that insulting, some may. So it is a weighted issue in that aspect and it was pointless thing to do in that it solved nothing.

He's obviously unhappy about what is happening in American policy. So he flips off the president. OK. What did it solve? Absolutely nothing.

If you want change go about it in a productive manner. Don't just sit there throw a finger in the air. I look at acts like that as akin to a child having a tantrum. Sure...now you know the kid is upset, but did the tantrum solve anything?

I didn't say it made Ricky Martin childish and stupid, I said the act was childish and stupid.

If I see a musician flip off the president, I do not feel compelled to make a political change. I just think they look like a fool. I make my decisions based on something more than substantial than the man who wrote 'Shake your Bon Bon'.

Oh, and maybe it is just me, but I don't see Ricky Martin using the word 'promulgate'.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoona That's the point, it does nothing. Its no big deal. Who cares he flipped off Bush? No biggie to me. It doesn't make me think Ricky Martin is stupid or childish.

The same argument could be used regarding the cartoonists who drew images of Muhammed. It's not big deal. Who cares they drew Muhammed? Certainly no big deal to me. It doesn't make me think their point is any less valid.

 

[amoona]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer The same argument could be used regarding the cartoonists who drew images of Muhammed. It's not big deal. Who cares they drew Muhammed? Certainly no big deal to me. It doesn't make me think their point is any less valid.

Um idk why you're bringing that up because that's a totally different issue. That was something done to disrespect a religion and people who hold a certain religious belief. I could understand if Ricky Martin was disrespecting a Jewish or Christian leader. He was flipping off Bush that's why I personally don't see it as a big deal. A majority of US citizens have something negative to say about Bush.

If you'd like to bring up the cartoons we can go into a whole different discussion. It's not the samething.

 

[Shimmer]

That was someone flipping off the President of the United States of America. It's as patently offensive as a cartoon about a religious leader.

 

[Hawkeye]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoona Um idk why you're bringing that up because that's a totally different issue. That was something done to disrespect a religion and people who hold a certain religious belief. I could understand if Ricky Martin was disrespecting a Jewish or Christian leader. He was flipping off Bush that's why I personally don't see it as a big deal. A majority of US citizens have something negative to say about Bush. If you'd like to bring up the cartoons we can go into a whole different discussion. It's not the samething.

Actually it's not that different.

It is something or a person that stands for something people may agree with.

What is so different about drawing a Muslim leader as a cartoon and someone flipping someone off. After all neither mean that much.

It's the same emotion. How is it any different? One is a leader for one value and system and culture the other is a leader for a different value and system. What's different? The way they were being portrayed? The way they were "disrespected"? The person being disrespected? The ideas being disrespected?

And if you really want to bring in about a majority of americans don't like Bush-well we can turn the same coin and say well - after 9/11... and you have seen it and felt the discrimination-haven't you? When an American goes into a middle eastern country- don't you think they feel the same?

So really it isn't a big difference. It's two leaders being portrayed poorly. But, it's perfectly acceptable if it is the on you don't like (not you personally but anyone on the opposing side of any issue).

You say it's not a big issue and really the more I think of it- yes, it is. This is the same entertainer who thought enough of Bush to say hey yes, I'll perform at your inaugeration ball- and then he turns around and does this.

Bascially what we are saying is: Look at the other side of the coin. If any of this happened to you- would you not be a little annoyed?

Obviously so because automatically when Shimmer brought up the cartoons, you got defensive real quick. Because it was something that made someone you admire, or like, or think is pretty OK look bad.

What do you think of the cartoonist? Do you think they are ill educated? Do you think they were making a childlike assumption? Do you think they helped persuade you into their line of thinking?

No. It didn't. It just made the other side look worse.

 

[*Stargazer*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye Actually it's not that different.

You're right. Its not that different. In fact, the only notable difference that I see is that no one is calling for Ricky Martin to be beheaded, rioting in the streets or screaming "War on Puerto Rico, Death on Puerto Rico"

 

[Beauty Mark]

For me, considering that Bush isn't just someone who cut me off while driving or stole my parking spot, it seems like an immature action. I don't agree with Bush's actions at all and to me, flicking off someone is a trivial way of dealing with it. It reiterates that people who aren't for Bush's presidency are immature and childish, even though that statement can be made for both sides. You can't change those people, the ones who are really pro and anti, but you can change the moderates. If people actively behave like that, you turn off the moderates and possibly send them over to the other side.

Even if I don't care for people like Michael Moore, at least he's putting his view out there in a more eloquent fashion than a middle finger.

 

[xmrsvindieselx]

Quote:

But this thing with Ricky Martin, he was accomplishing absolutely nothing. *shrugs*

I disagree. we wouldnt be having this conversation if nothing was accomplished.

please calling ricky childish kind of makes me laugh. he is like in the 1 % of celebs catagory that doesnt do stupid shit. celebs do stupid shit allll the time. at least ricky isnt doing half the crazy shit celebs do for attention. he gets it by caring and helping charities. and he does it with a full head of hair and undies on!!

 

[Hawkeye]

We are not calling HIM childish. We are calling his ACTIONS childish.

 

[amoona]

So because he's the president of your country he should be treated in the same light as a major religions prophet?! I'm not even going to continue with this thread because obviously someones trying to start something with me like always. Either way I'd be censored like I usually am if I even try to get into it.

Last time I'm going to say is that no its not the samething. Bush is not a religious figure for one of the largest religions in the world. Ricky Martin is jus a singer flipping of an idiot. When people start worshipping Bush as a religious figure and follow a religion he is a prophet of then it'll be a similar situation.

 

[Shimmer]

Bush is a political leader for the USA. No one is trying to start anything with you, but it is directly the same thing. Bush is a leader for one of the most powerful countries in the world, he's a nationally elected official, and regardless of the feeling of discontent with him right now that's quite pervasive in the nation, he's still our President.
Our President means nothing to you, and that's fine, but your religious guy means nothing to me, so we're rather at an impasse. You're blowing it off like it doesn't mean anything, when to me it does, just the same as you'd be offended by me wearing a Muhammed Rox shirt with his picture on it, though he means nothing to me.
I could go so far as to say:
Hey, as far as I'm concerned, the tshirt I'm talking about would be nothing more than a non-Islamic person flipping the bird to a terrorist. <! That statement is just as offensive to you as what you said is to me.

I like you Amoona, and I respect your opinion, usually, though I may disagree with it, but I don't appreciate or respect your opinion on this one. Yes, he's a singer and a nobody, but he was disrespectful in a pretty vulgar manner. Just because he's a "nobody" doesn't mean I have to like what he did.

 

[Trunkmonkey]

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Originally Posted by amoona So because he's the president of your country he should be treated in the same light as a major religions prophet?! I'm not even going to continue with this thread because obviously someones trying to start something with me like always. Either way I'd be censored like I usually am if I even try to get into it. Last time I'm going to say is that no its not the samething. Bush is not a religious figure for one of the largest religions in the world. Ricky Martin is jus a singer flipping of an idiot. When people start worshipping Bush as a religious figure and follow a religion he is a prophet of then it'll be a similar situation.

and Mohammed was just a pedophile with a strong personality....

I'm sure that, somewhere in your upbringing, you've been given the false impression that you can mold the world to your narrow view. Let me be the 15th or 50th to attempt to raise your awareness without smacking you with a cluebyfour.

sorry hon you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you're going to say it's cool to disrespect the leader of my country then it's okay for me to disrespect the icons of your religion.

Not that I necessarily WOULD but if the shoe fits *shrug*.

 

[amoona]

I said I wont continue with this thread but when I saw Trunkmonkey comment I had to come back to say something.

Trunkmonkey nobody is trying to mold anyone into believing what I believe. It's my personal opinion and I have stated that it's what I BELIEVE!!! I also didn't say it's "cool" to disrespect Bush I said it's Ricky Martin!!!!! WHO CARES?!

And with the tone of your response I'm surprised Shimmer hasn't censored you like she likes to censor me. I guess I can't say anything on this forum that doesn't relate to make-up because everyone flips it around and tries to bring in my religion into it. Nobody seems to be ok with the fact that this is something that is my personal opinion, if you don't agree that's fine. You're not going to convince me that it's equally as offensive as offended one of the largest religions in the world but purposly disrespecting it's followers. I made a statement of how I feel that it's not that serious and I get crap like "Let me be the 15th or 50th to attempt to raise your awareness without smacking you with a cluebyfour." Interesting ...

 

[hyperRealGurl]

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Originally Posted by amoona I said I wont continue with this thread but when I saw Trunkmonkey comment I had to come back to say something. Trunkmonkey nobody is trying to mold anyone into believing what I believe. It's my personal opinion and I have stated that it's what I BELIEVE!!! I also didn't say it's "cool" to disrespect Bush I said it's Ricky Martin!!!!! WHO CARES?! And with the tone of your response I'm surprised Shimmer hasn't censored you like she likes to censor me. I guess I can't say anything on this forum that doesn't relate to make-up because everyone flips it around and tries to bring in my religion into it. Nobody seems to be ok with the fact that this is something that is my personal opinion, if you don't agree that's fine. You're not going to convince me that it's equally as offensive as offended one of the largest religions in the world but purposly disrespecting it's followers. I made a statement of how I feel that it's not that serious and I get crap like "Let me be the 15th or 50th to attempt to raise your awareness without smacking you with a cluebyfour." Interesting ...

Hey doll face lets not jump the gun here......... Im sure jamie hasnt seen the post yet

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by amoona I said I wont continue with this thread but when I saw Trunkmonkey comment I had to come back to say something. Trunkmonkey nobody is trying to mold anyone into believing what I believe. It's my personal opinion and I have stated that it's what I BELIEVE!!! I also didn't say it's "cool" to disrespect Bush I said it's Ricky Martin!!!!! WHO CARES?! And with the tone of your response I'm surprised Shimmer hasn't censored you like she likes to censor me. I guess I can't say anything on this forum that doesn't relate to make-up because everyone flips it around and tries to bring in my religion into it. Nobody seems to be ok with the fact that this is something that is my personal opinion, if you don't agree that's fine. You're not going to convince me that it's equally as offensive as offended one of the largest religions in the world but purposly disrespecting it's followers. I made a statement of how I feel that it's not that serious and I get crap like "Let me be the 15th or 50th to attempt to raise your awareness without smacking you with a cluebyfour." Interesting ...

I don't censor you. I ask you, and I will ask TrunkMonkey, to remember the rules of the site.

I don't think anyone's NOT okay with the fact that it's your personal opinion, but the people who disagree with you are using rational and wholly logical arguments against your point.

Your opinion is subjective. Your religion is something important to you. There are many people whose religion is important to them. I'm one of them. Also important to me are my nation's leaders (regardless of whether I agree with them or not), my nation's flag, and the proper respect that should be shown to both...regardless of anything else, respect the rank and symbol, if not the man. You don't, and that's fine.
Because it's your opinion that it's not a big deal, it's not a big deal to you.
Likewise, it's my opinion, going back to my example, that drawing a cartoon of Muhammed with a bomb in his turban is a) not a big deal and b) an observant statement made in a cheeky manner. Muhammed is not important to me, nor will he ever be, so I am able to see the humor in the cartoon while not being offended by it. You're offended by it not because of the content of the cartoon but because it's a picture of Muhammed.
No one's asking your opinion to change...but they are (I think) asking you to consider the perspective of others and say "Hm. I didn't look at it that way, but you're right, if I were in your shoes, I definitely can see how that would be offensive."

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by hyperRealGurl Hey doll face lets not jump the gun here......... Im sure jamie hasnt seen the post yet

I saw it, and have asked the member to remember the TOS of the site.

 

[Trunkmonkey]

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Originally Posted by amoona I said I wont continue with this thread but when I saw Trunkmonkey comment I had to come back to say something. Trunkmonkey nobody is trying to mold anyone into believing what I believe. It's my personal opinion and I have stated that it's what I BELIEVE!!! I also didn't say it's "cool" to disrespect Bush I said it's Ricky Martin!!!!! WHO CARES?! And with the tone of your response I'm surprised Shimmer hasn't censored you like she likes to censor me. I guess I can't say anything on this forum that doesn't relate to make-up because everyone flips it around and tries to bring in my religion into it. Interesting ...

Who cares? obviously you do because you're the one that brought it up. Granted Ricky Martin is a washed up has been but you'd have been happy to post something that anybody did that's disrespectful to him because you have a personal animus towards him.

As to my tone and censorship it could happen it could NOT happen however if I get my hand spanked on a board for breaking it's rules I try not to break those rules again or find boards that are more along my lines of thinking. Perhaps you ought to give those lines of thinking a shot.

As for your religion? Well I the only one I see that actively recruits people to dress in suits made by Dupont and turn themselves into not very smart bombs is yours.

Now I am painting with a very broad brush here but you have to admit that when the tables got turned on you you didn't like it much did you? Learn something from it is my suggestion.

 

[hyperRealGurl]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer I saw it, and have asked the member to remember the TOS of the site.

wasnt sure if u did. i just dont like it when ppl just jump to conclusion. So i had to throw my 2cents in

 

[Shimmer]

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Originally Posted by hyperRealGurl wasnt sure if u did. i just dont like it when ppl just jump to conclusion. So i had to throw my 2cents in

One of the reasons I

you

 

[amoona]

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Originally Posted by Trunkmonkey I'm sure that, somewhere in your upbringing, you've been given the false impression that you can mold the world to your narrow view. Let me be the 15th or 50th to attempt to raise your awareness without smacking you with a cluebyfour.

That's using using rational and wholly logical arguments against my point? Funny. As far as you not being offended by the cartoons of the Prophet I don't expect you to. If you're not Muslim you don't believe in him so why would you be offended? As for the reason why I'm offended by his cartoon ... they drew him with a turban that had a bomb on it. I never said it should matter to you or it should be a big deal. I just don't think it's one the same level.

But since it's ok for people to speak to me the way Trunkmonkey spoke to me, and it's not ok for me to speak freely without being jumped on ... like I said before, I'll stick to the make-up threads. AND yes you have censored me A LOT in the past, if I were to have made the comment that Trunkmonkey did you would have deleted it in a heart beat.