Sarah Palin

[bellaconnie80]

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Originally Posted by NutMeg OK I wasn't going to get involved because this isn't my country or vote, but I have to say something. The people who are getting on your case aren't supporting Palin. They object to the way in which you're presenting your argument. It is possible to agree with someone and object to the way they are debating. If you want to get straight, serious, and well thought-out replies to your question, don't ask it in a paragraph filled with exclamation marks and insults. If you don't want to offend people keep phrases like 'crazy bitch' to a minimum. Don't take this the wrong way, I'm just letting you know that no one is going to take you seriously with the way you've been posting.

Thank you so much for your honesty

I see your point and I agree!! I went about making my point the wrong way.. thank you for your constructive criticism, and I'm glad you got involved

I'm not very sensitive or easily hurt so I have to remember that not everyone out there is the same! for the ladies with a cool and laid back attitude and sense of humor who understood me THANK YOU bunchies, and to the more conservative ladies whom I did offend Please accept my apologies!! I think that EVERYONE on this thread is awesome because even though some of us disagree, at least we care!!

 

[DejaVu]

No that is not what I was implying. This is the first post I have done and did not know how to add the prior statement that I was responding to. I had said that in response to a post on the first page talking about women getting jobs due solely on the fact that they are women. I believe they have to earn their position, not be given it because they are a woman. The post I was writing that response to had stated she received the nomination based on that. That may or may not be the case but I was just adding my thoughts. Thank you for allowing me to clear that up.

 

[Patricia]

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Originally Posted by MAC_Whore Please don't take this the wrong way, but honestly, no one owes you an explanation of why they like or don't like Palin. Voting is a personal preference and you've clearly made up your mind.

on the other hand this is a forum and we are all here to participate, so would be nice if someone could say somehting positive about palin, or express why should people vote for her

would be cool as i've only read really bad things about her and i'd be interested in other views

 

[sharkbytes]

Ok, I just wanted to clarify~ By the way, if you want to add the prior statement, you can press the quote button at the bottom of the statement that you want to add, and it'll appear in the box you're typing in.

I agree, no one should be handed anything because of what they are, only for things that they do. I just disagree with the automatic assumption that because she's a small town mayor and hockey mom, she can't POSSIBLY have anything to bring to the table, so therefore she MUST have been chosen to fill a demographic. I don't know why he chose her, I need to find out more about her. It just seems like the typical kneejerk reaction whenever a goodlooking woman is chosen to run for high office.

 

[DejaVu]

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Originally Posted by sharkbytes Ok, I just wanted to clarify~ By the way, if you want to add the prior statement, you can press the quote button at the bottom of the statement that you want to add, and it'll appear in the box you're typing in. I agree, no one should be handed anything because of what they are, only for things that they do. I just disagree with the automatic assumption that because she's a small town mayor and hockey mom, she can't POSSIBLY have anything to bring to the table, so therefore she MUST have been chosen to fill a demographic. I don't know why he chose her, I need to find out more about her. It just seems like the typical kneejerk reaction whenever a goodlooking woman is chosen to run for high office.

I totally agree with your entire statement. I too do not know why he chose her but she seems to be of more intelligence than just another pretty face!

 

[DejaVu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharkbytes Ok, I just wanted to clarify~ By the way, if you want to add the prior statement, you can press the quote button at the bottom of the statement that you want to add, and it'll appear in the box you're typing in. I agree, no one should be handed anything because of what they are, only for things that they do. I just disagree with the automatic assumption that because she's a small town mayor and hockey mom, she can't POSSIBLY have anything to bring to the table, so therefore she MUST have been chosen to fill a demographic. I don't know why he chose her, I need to find out more about her. It just seems like the typical kneejerk reaction whenever a goodlooking woman is chosen to run for high office.

I totally agree with your entire statement. I too do not know why he chose her but she seems to be of more intelligence than just another pretty face!

 

[MAC_Whore]

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Originally Posted by Patricia on the other hand this is a forum and we are all here to participate, so would be nice if someone could say somehting positive about palin, or express why should people vote for her would be cool as i've only read really bad things about her and i'd be interested in other views

You make an excellent point. I was just speaking more towards my own feelings, I guess.

When I see a thread that is pretty heavily anti-Palin and that has a thumbs-down icon next to the thread, I just see any statement for Palin as invitation to argue and argue and argue and speaking for myself that just isn't appealing. I'm not here to campaign for anyone.

Personally, I don't know who I am voting for yet. There is still a good amount of time before election day and considering that this seems to be an election like no other before, I am doing all I can to collect and verify information so that I enter the booth with an informed opinion.

Honestly, considering the dynamics of this election, the state of our economy, all that is at stake and the amount of time left until election (a lot can happen), I don't think anyone should say they know for sure who they are voting for. That's just me though.

 

[MxAxC-_ATTACK]

I think finding any UN-Biased information is pretty close to impossible.

 

[duckduck]

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Originally Posted by sharkbytes Just my 2 cents on the whole issue---I'm pretty upset that the *first time* a woman has been on the ticket, which is a big deal to me, has turned into nothing more than a punchline. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with Sarah Palin, but it pains me to see that even news anchors are commenting that she's sexy, or good-looking.

See, I don't know how I feel about this. Truth is, she is sexy and good-looking, and that is very unusual. Does it mean anything as far as how effective she could be a leader? Sure - there have been loads of studies showing that attractive people tend to be paid higher wadges, receive higher promotions, and are often more popular among their peers. It blows, but physical attractiveness definitely adds to a person's charisma level. Of course the media hasn't been talking about it on that level, but even so, she's really the elephant in the room. I am just not sure how I feel about them pointing it out.

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Originally Posted by sharkbytes To me, that says more about the election than anything else. Every magazine cover last week had a picture of Sarah Palin on it, there were comments about her glasses, her choice of cosmetics (btw, she wears MAC, lol) everything. When Obama was put on the ticket, or McCain, or Biden, there weren't running lists of the designer ties they're wearing, or which fine hand tailored the suit.

Actually, I did see a little on Obama, but no one else. I have also heard comments made about whether or not he is attractive, so it is not entirely a phenomenon restricted to Sarah Palin. She definitely has gotten the most attention for it though.

More insulting I thought were the comments on Hiliary Clinton's looks. No one ever mentioned Mike Huckabee's dimples or Mitt Romney's 5-finger forehead, but everyone was happy to scrutinize every pant-suit choice Hiliary Cliniton made and make comments on her crow's feet and thin lips. I guess as I think about, comments on the physical features of politicians are significantly more common with regards to women than men. Kinda says something about the values of this country and our media - like for a woman, part of her worth is based on her beauty, but for a man it is significantly less important? Weird... (clearly, I have not done any work or courses in women's studies in my life - forgive my ignorance on the subject)

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Originally Posted by sharkbytes And there was that one photo in particular of her posing with a gun...so what, that makes her a bad person? She lives in Alaska, for crying out loud! There's moose, and all manner of things you wouldn't want on your property trampling you. People were acting as though she's got 12 guns stashed on her person, just waiting for a fight.

Wasn't sure which photo you were referring to, so for clarification for everyone, this picture is photoshopped and not her:

Factcheck.org

The photos taken during her rifle training in Kuwait, however, are real:
YouTube - Sarah Palin Rifle Training

As well as the one recently was on the cover of Newsweek. Back to the point at hand though.

I don't know that the pictures of her holding guns necessarily make her look like a bad person. Personally, I believe strongly in the right to bear arms, and appreciate lawmakers who have at least some experience with guns before they go making laws about them. I guess some might view the photos of her holding or operating firearms as bad, but I don't think those people were going to vote for her anyways.

 

[sharkbytes]

Oh no, not that bikini one, lol. It was a different photo, she was in regular clothing and just holding a rifle. I didn't see anything to object to with it, but it bothered me that it was being splashed on the news when they weren't even discussing the 2nd amendment.

I agree totally regarding Hillary--in fact, when she was our First Lady, there were hundreds of articles criticizing her hair, her pantsuits, her choices in makeup. And more recently, there was a lot of attention given to her suits yet again. However you feel about her, Hillary Clinton is a very intelligent, educated woman. Her arguments are always sound and well-thought out...it pisses me off to see that the first thing to be argued is her fashion sense, rather than her position.

Mike Huckabee, for instance, lost a LOT of weight. And yet, they didn't mercilessly post his "fat" pictures, or wonder if he had self-control issues. Mitt Romney's hair definitely had some sort of shellac to keep it in place. Obama is a good looking man as well, and you can see just a *little* of the same bias go in his favor. He always looks casually elegant, to me at least. I know good and well that beauty is regarded very highly, but still, this is such an important election year, I'd like to hear about more than where Cindy McCain bought her jewelry, or where Sarah Palin buys her glasses.

 

[duckduck]

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Originally Posted by sharkbytes Oh no, not that bikini one, lol. It was a different photo, she was in regular clothing and just holding a rifle. I didn't see anything to object to with it, but it bothered me that it was being splashed on the news when they weren't even discussing the 2nd amendment. I agree totally regarding Hillary--in fact, when she was our First Lady, there were hundreds of articles criticizing her hair, her pantsuits, her choices in makeup. And more recently, there was a lot of attention given to her suits yet again. However you feel about her, Hillary Clinton is a very intelligent, educated woman. Her arguments are always sound and well-thought out...it pisses me off to see that the first thing to be argued is her fashion sense, rather than her position. Mike Huckabee, for instance, lost a LOT of weight. And yet, they didn't mercilessly post his "fat" pictures, or wonder if he had self-control issues. Mitt Romney's hair definitely had some sort of shellac to keep it in place. Obama is a good looking man as well, and you can see just a *little* of the same bias go in his favor. He always looks casually elegant, to me at least. I know good and well that beauty is regarded very highly, but still, this is such an important election year, I'd like to hear about more than where Cindy McCain bought her jewelry, or where Sarah Palin buys her glasses.

ITA. These things are meant as distractions from the real issues at hand. Don't get me wrong, some of that stuff can be interesting in like, a celebrity blog or something, but when I go to the news, I expect content with substance about both male and female candidates.

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Originally Posted by sharkbytes I agree, no one should be handed anything because of what they are, only for things that they do. I just disagree with the automatic assumption that because she's a small town mayor and hockey mom, she can't POSSIBLY have anything to bring to the table, so therefore she MUST have been chosen to fill a demographic. I don't know why he chose her, I need to find out more about her. It just seems like the typical kneejerk reaction whenever a goodlooking woman is chosen to run for high office.

Definately look more into her - for me it was rather dissapointing, but I believe she might be the right canidate for some people. It has been no secret, however, that her gender was indeed a factor in the decision to run her for VP. That frustrates me greatly.

 

[duckduck]

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Originally Posted by MAC_Whore When I see a thread that is pretty heavily anti-Palin and that has a thumbs-down icon next to the thread, I just see any statement for Palin as invitation to argue and argue and argue and speaking for myself that just isn't appealing. I'm not here to campaign for anyone.

Huh. You bring a very good point. I had wanted to foster a healthy discussion on the subject, but the choice of the thumbs down for the thread title, and having such a strongly negative first post sent a different message. I was feeling rather grumpy that day, so I don't think I recognized how incredibly negative I came off. I said at the end of my post that I hoped to hear a variety of opinions and thoughts on the subject, and I absolutely meant it. Unfortunately, the way I started this thread probably drove off any supporters since they assumed (rightly so) that it would be populated with loads of anti-Palin posts and anything pro-Palin would result in a group beating.

A wonderful piece of advice was given to me a while ago: Never engage in an argument with someone unless there is a legitimate chance you will change each others minds - anything else is just wasting your breath.

I know, I know, I'm on the internet with a bunch of people who I don't know and may or may not have their minds open to change. I have, however, seen enough intelligent discussions go down here on Specktra that I knew this was a good group to bring this up with. Sadly, I think I shot myself in the foot by sending the wrong message with that first post

.

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Originally Posted by MAC_Whore Personally, I don't know who I am voting for yet. There is still a good amount of time before election day and considering that this seems to be an election like no other before, I am doing all I can to collect and verify information so that I enter the booth with an informed opinion. Honestly, considering the dynamics of this election, the state of our economy, all that is at stake and the amount of time left until election (a lot can happen), I don't think anyone should say they know for sure who they are voting for. That's just me though.

ITA. I am also undecided, and the amount of information that comes out on almost a daily basis makes me feel like I'll never be able to make a choice. I feel like I do have a better understanding of where some of Sarah Palin's support might be coming from after reading this thread, but I still don't feel like I really "get" it yet.

I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on Obama, Biden, and McCain, but Palin is still a bit of a mystery to me.

 

[elegant-one]

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Originally Posted by MAC_Pixie04 Some radical feminist would probably pick her off in the name of Roe v Wade if that happened lol I could just see it now, some crazy militant chick with giant combat boots and a beret, with a nunchuk made of flaming bras....I'm getting carried away lmao

Wow - You can actually "lol" & "lmao" at the thought of someone MURDERING someone else! This is intellectual serious dialogue? If I said that about Obama I'm quite sure that I would be called a racist. I've never been racist & would never think of making such a statement let alone "LMAO" about it. I happen to hold the values that all life is valued no matter what political party or race.

This election for me, is about keeping what we have worked so hard for. I don't owe anyone, or anyone's kids, a house, health insurance, a college education etc.

Obama/Biden is for growing bigger & bigger government - he listed all the entitlements in his speech, taking more & more of our hard earned money through higher taxation and actually controlling more of our personal lives. Inciting class envy & redistribution of wealth.

McCain/Palin who are for smaller government, lower taxes, and less government involvement in our personal lives & small businesses.

I watched an actual interview where those who are governing in Alaska stated as fact that Palin went against corrupt Republicans, had Independents, Democrats & Republicans in her administration. McCain has the same non-partisan reputation.

There are Independents, Republicans & Democrats who are & have been working together for the common good of the people, its just that the biased media & pie-throwing, rage filled, window breaking, business hating, verbal bomb throwers can't seem to hear that.

Just as those who are against the government telling them what to do with their bodies, I don't want the government telling me what to do with the money my family has worked so hard for.

pretty simple

 

[elegant-one]

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Originally Posted by duckduck Huh. You bring a very good point. I had wanted to foster a healthy discussion on the subject, but the choice of the thumbs down for the thread title, and having such a strongly negative first post sent a different message. I was feeling rather grumpy that day, so I don't think I recognized how incredibly negative I came off. I said at the end of my post that I hoped to hear a variety of opinions and thoughts on the subject, and I absolutely meant it. Unfortunately, the way I started this thread probably drove off any supporters since they assumed (rightly so) that it would be populated with loads of anti-Palin posts and anything pro-Palin would result in a group beating. A wonderful piece of advice was given to me a while ago: Never engage in an argument with someone unless there is a legitimate chance you will change each others minds - anything else is just wasting your breath. I know, I know, I'm on the internet with a bunch of people who I don't know and may or may not have their minds open to change. I have, however, seen enough intelligent discussions go down here on Specktra that I knew this was a good group to bring this up with. Sadly, I think I shot myself in the foot by sending the wrong message with that first post .

I sincerely appreciate that statement from you

 

[MAC_Whore]

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Originally Posted by duckduck ...... I have, however, seen enough intelligent discussions go down here on Specktra that I knew this was a good group to bring this up with. Sadly, I think I shot myself in the foot by sending the wrong message with that first post .....

Na...you were just being honest about how you felt. I've started posts like that too. My post above was coming from how I felt. I am sure that others may want to talk about it. We can't please all the people, all the time, right?

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Originally Posted by duckduck ...... ITA. I am also undecided, and the amount of information that comes out on almost a daily basis makes me feel like I'll never be able to make a choice. I feel like I do have a better understanding of where some of Sarah Palin's support might be coming from after reading this thread, but I still don't feel like I really "get" it yet. I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on Obama, Biden, and McCain, but Palin is still a bit of a mystery to me.

The amount of informations and messengers is really overwhelming, I agree. I think that just by virtue of her career so far, less info is available. It is something that needs to be addressed, I agree.

Not related to the above quotes and responses, but on a general note:

Another thing I have been thinking about is how important are the things in a candidate's past. I mean certain repeat actions definitely suggest a pattern of behaviour, but what if they haven't done that particular thing in a long time. Does that make a difference?

What if they did something that I disagree with, but only did it once. I make mistakes. Is it appropriate to hold that against them?

What is more important, past issues or future plans? Probably a bit of both. It's a lot of info to digest.

About that video of Sarah Palin at a rifle range in Kuwait. I don't see that as a mark against her, whether you support gun rights or not. The president is commander in chief of our military. She could be next in line, so an understanding an appreciation of the military function/mission is essential.

Speaking to just the whole aspect of identifying her with guns. I think we can all agree that rural country living is often a culture that identifies with hunting and having to take care of themselves, so a gun isn't that out of the norm. If she lived in NYC and and carried the entire range of ArmaLite products on her person, I might be worried, but she doesn't.

Personally I own a gun. I highly value my ability to do so. Guns are always a polarizing issue, but the reality is that criminals will ALWAYS have guns. Forbiding a citizen's choice to apply for, purchase and own arms, will take away a measure of their protection or simply make the citizens the criminals for having a gun.

 

[duckduck]

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Originally Posted by elegant-one I sincerely appreciate that statement from you

Thank you so much for saying so - I am feeling kinda dumb right now. I had to go look at some LOLcats and this thread for a while just to make myself feel better

.

I like your reply above - I agree with you on so many points. I am just not a fan of large-scale wealth redistribution schemes - there is way, way too much potential for error and corruption. I also dislike large government for the same reasons. I know McCain and Palin say they want to reduce the size of government, but neither of their track records really suggests to me that they will do so.

I think there is a fundamental problem with what I would want in a canidate: someone who wishes to be a politician and get into power, only so that they can reduce their own power once they get there.... hrm. I am sure historically this has happened - Regan maybe? I will have to look into it.

 

[elegant-one]

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Originally Posted by duckduck Thank you so much for saying so - I am feeling kinda dumb right now. I had to go look at some LOLcats and this thread for a while just to make myself feel better . neither of their track records really suggests to me that they will do so. I think there is a fundamental problem with what I would want in a canidate: someone who wishes to be a politician and get into power, only so that they can reduce their own power once they get there.... hrm. I am sure historically this has happened - Regan maybe? I will have to look into it.

Don't feel dumb

yeah, I'm really glad there aren't any youtube videos of some of the dumb things I've said & done in my lifetime...geesh

one note: Sarah Palin did take a pay cut, refused the plane & the cook.

On a lighter note:
That gun that Sarah Palin is shooting is an AR15 - I actually shot that gun in full makeup & semi heels with dh & his brother that is a State Trooper

 

[duckduck]

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Originally Posted by MAC_Whore Na...you were just being honest about how you felt. I've started posts like that too. My post above was coming from how I felt. I am sure that others may want to talk about it. We can't please all the people, all the time, right?

No, we can't. But I am still feeling like a huge old dork for not noticing that sooner

I really appreciate that you pointed it out though. I think it was probably blindingly obvious to most people, but now I can see it too and learn from it

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Originally Posted by MAC_Whore About that video of Sarah Palin at a rifle range in Kuwait. I don't see that as a mark against her, whether you support gun rights or not. The president is commander in chief of our military. She could be next in line, so an understanding an appreciation of the military function/mission is essential. Speaking to just the whole aspect of identifying her with guns. I think we can all agree that rural country living is often a culture that identifies with hunting and having to take care of themselves, so a gun isn't that out of the norm. If she lived in NYC and and carried the entire range of ArmaLite products on her person, I might be worried, but she doesn't. Personally I own a gun. I highly value my ability to do so. Guns are always a polarizing issue, but the reality is that criminals will ALWAYS have guns. Forbiding a citizen's choice to apply for, purchase and own arms, will take away a measure of their protection or simply make the citizens the criminals for having a gun.

So, so, so could not agree more with this.

 

[sharkbytes]

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Originally Posted by duckduck So, so, so could not agree more with this.

Me too. I'm not personally a gun owner, but my father was. I know a lot of people are against the issue because of children, but frankly, it's a parent's responsibility to teach gun safety and respect. As long as they're locked away/left unloaded I can't see a problem. Especially since it's the good citizens who are the ones who legally obtain and register their weapons.

 

[duckduck]

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Originally Posted by elegant-one Don't feel dumb yeah, I'm really glad there aren't any youtube videos of some of the dumb things I've said & done in my lifetime...geesh one note: Sarah Palin did take a pay cut, refused the plane & the cook. On a lighter note: That gun that Sarah Palin is shooting is an AR15 - I actually shot that gun in full makeup & semi heels with dh & his brother that is a State Trooper

LOL! Not only can you operate a gun, you can look cute doing it too! I am personally not a big fan of that much power - I shot a .44 special and it shook me up quite a bit! .32's and .22's will be plenty for me

I wish that everyone had the opportunity to learn about gun safety and try shooting a gun. I actually used to be anti-gun and felt there was no reason for a normal, sane person to want to own one. Out of desire to learn, however, I went out shooting with a friend's dad. The first hour or so, he taught us about safe operation, storage, and general practice. Then, we shot targets for about an hour or so and my mind was completely changed. I think I had a lot of fear surrounding guns, so being introduced to them in a safe, intelligent manner helped me come to terms with that. I also had a lot of mis-conceptions about guns from movies and the media. Actually operating one and seeing that it could be used for something other than evil taught me so much. I actually own two hand guns now, and one day in the far future, I hope that I will feel comfortable and confident to give more people the same intelligent, safe introduction to them I had.