Sean P.Diddy Colmes fashion line sells Dog Fur Coats
- Thread starter Hawkeye
- Start date
Hawkeye
Well-known member
That's fine and I understand that. However, I am asking everybody (not just you) to state their opinions and not be sarcastic or telling someone they are wrong etc.
I'm a very neutral party here (because I can see both sides- very clearly) but I have seen extreams in both cases and I'm just letting it be known that this topic has the potential to turn very very ugly with name calling, sarcasm, and I have seen similar topics become brutal. I really do not want this to happen because all of the parties here are very respected members of the community. We all must learn to express our views without forcing them on other people. That's all I'm saying.
This is the last I'm saying about this because we are getting off topic (MY FAULT hehe) but lets just be respectful of each others opinions (EVERYBODY).
I'm a very neutral party here (because I can see both sides- very clearly) but I have seen extreams in both cases and I'm just letting it be known that this topic has the potential to turn very very ugly with name calling, sarcasm, and I have seen similar topics become brutal. I really do not want this to happen because all of the parties here are very respected members of the community. We all must learn to express our views without forcing them on other people. That's all I'm saying.
This is the last I'm saying about this because we are getting off topic (MY FAULT hehe) but lets just be respectful of each others opinions (EVERYBODY).
MxAxC-_ATTACK
Well-known member
Everyone holds different Issues closer than others.
I personally will hold animals rights closer than some other issue going on . Mainly because animals are helpless.. People are not.
I agree that Peta is pretty crazy. they go about things in a awful way. Yes I am for animal rights, but I wouldnt go do something stupid like ruin someones property (fur coat etc.) .. they are loud and obnoxious .
I wont put down someone who wears a fur coat just because I personally do not like fur does not give me the place to pick on them for it.. its is their decision not mine.
I personally will hold animals rights closer than some other issue going on . Mainly because animals are helpless.. People are not.
I agree that Peta is pretty crazy. they go about things in a awful way. Yes I am for animal rights, but I wouldnt go do something stupid like ruin someones property (fur coat etc.) .. they are loud and obnoxious .
I wont put down someone who wears a fur coat just because I personally do not like fur does not give me the place to pick on them for it.. its is their decision not mine.
Beauty Mark
Well-known member
I think of animals as small children in many ways; my cat relies on me to take care of her and all her needs. That's why I'm personally interested in animal activism. They're so innocent and reliant on people that it seems beyond cruel to allow bad things to happen to animals.
I don't support PETA's actions against people, mainly because I believe people should be able to make up their minds and that you don't win people over by being a jerk. However, I do support other forms of animal activism and am personally offended when animal activists are stereotyped. Most of the ones I know, even the ones somewhat involved with PETA, aren't going to throw paint at someone with a fur coat or be mean to you because you ate veal for dinner. If you want to talk to me about why I'm vegetarian with a lot of vegan practices, I'm not going to try to beat you down with my opinion. All I ask is that people be open-minded about it; I can understand where people who care about animals and their rights can be seen as annoying (I had this vegan in a philosophy class who made me want to eat a rare veal steak in front of her, and I was vegetarian for a while), but they really are the minority. Like most things in life, the extremists are the ones who get noticed the most and give the group a bad name when the majority are decent folks.
I don't support PETA's actions against people, mainly because I believe people should be able to make up their minds and that you don't win people over by being a jerk. However, I do support other forms of animal activism and am personally offended when animal activists are stereotyped. Most of the ones I know, even the ones somewhat involved with PETA, aren't going to throw paint at someone with a fur coat or be mean to you because you ate veal for dinner. If you want to talk to me about why I'm vegetarian with a lot of vegan practices, I'm not going to try to beat you down with my opinion. All I ask is that people be open-minded about it; I can understand where people who care about animals and their rights can be seen as annoying (I had this vegan in a philosophy class who made me want to eat a rare veal steak in front of her, and I was vegetarian for a while), but they really are the minority. Like most things in life, the extremists are the ones who get noticed the most and give the group a bad name when the majority are decent folks.
MAC_Whore
Well-known member
Quote:
Thank you. I wasn't directing my post at you. I guess I have just been around a few too many "society ladies" in my lifetime and their constant need to display their elevating wealth was a little sickening. Especially when animals died for it. In my eyes, it was just an unneccessary, superficial thing that they did and it bothered me greatly. I always just wondered if those women wearing the fur would still wear it if they had to do the killing and skinning themselves.
I don't mean for my views to insult you. I am a firm believer in the "you are entitled to your views based on your life experiences" and "I am entitled to my views based on my life experiences" school of thought. Hopefully we meet somewhere in the middle for a greater good of society as a whole. Which is why I don't care for extremists. They have such a totalitarian mind set. There is no room for give and take. No room for learning or understanding. So please know that I am not delivering my feelings about animals/fur with that intent.
Know that I am not looking down my nose at anyone for wearing fur. I don't think it make them a bad person, I just feel that they are a person who is making a very bad choice. I am not saying I am above anyone else. I, like everyone in this world, have my share of flaws. Some days it feels like I have more than my fair share.
I love Specktra and the fact that it has such a diverse range of topics and members. I enjoy hearing other points of view. I may not always agree. I may not always be correct. I may make a mistake, but I enjoy the dialogue and the fact that this forum is so much more friendly and civil than other boards. We are all lucky to have Specktra as a way to communicate, have fun and learn.
OK, enough of the sappy talk. I am sounding like an after school special, eh?
Originally Posted by amoona
In that case I apologize for misunderstanding your post. It seemed like you were putting down people for wearing fur and insulting them. |
Thank you. I wasn't directing my post at you. I guess I have just been around a few too many "society ladies" in my lifetime and their constant need to display their elevating wealth was a little sickening. Especially when animals died for it. In my eyes, it was just an unneccessary, superficial thing that they did and it bothered me greatly. I always just wondered if those women wearing the fur would still wear it if they had to do the killing and skinning themselves.
I don't mean for my views to insult you. I am a firm believer in the "you are entitled to your views based on your life experiences" and "I am entitled to my views based on my life experiences" school of thought. Hopefully we meet somewhere in the middle for a greater good of society as a whole. Which is why I don't care for extremists. They have such a totalitarian mind set. There is no room for give and take. No room for learning or understanding. So please know that I am not delivering my feelings about animals/fur with that intent.
Know that I am not looking down my nose at anyone for wearing fur. I don't think it make them a bad person, I just feel that they are a person who is making a very bad choice. I am not saying I am above anyone else. I, like everyone in this world, have my share of flaws. Some days it feels like I have more than my fair share.
I love Specktra and the fact that it has such a diverse range of topics and members. I enjoy hearing other points of view. I may not always agree. I may not always be correct. I may make a mistake, but I enjoy the dialogue and the fact that this forum is so much more friendly and civil than other boards. We are all lucky to have Specktra as a way to communicate, have fun and learn.
OK, enough of the sappy talk. I am sounding like an after school special, eh?
sharyn
Well-known member
What goes around comes around.
I decided not to harm, hurt, kill, skin, eat or torture anything that breathes. For myself. I will help where I can, try to preserve as many creatures from pain as I can. My choice. If you decide your own pleasure/looks go over a live being, well, then...
And at the end of the day, everyone gets what they deserve. At least, I hope so. Dont take offense, this is just my personal belief/opinion.
I decided not to harm, hurt, kill, skin, eat or torture anything that breathes. For myself. I will help where I can, try to preserve as many creatures from pain as I can. My choice. If you decide your own pleasure/looks go over a live being, well, then...
And at the end of the day, everyone gets what they deserve. At least, I hope so. Dont take offense, this is just my personal belief/opinion.
lemurian
Well-known member
Humans would never have developed the mental capacity to form an opinion if not for eating animals. There is a HUGE difference between wearing fur and eating meat. Animals raised for food CAN live a pleasant life and be killed with mercy (and sometimes even a little prayer!), which is not the case for animals bred and raised for fur. Unless you're doing business with some indiginous peoples living on a remote mountainside above the arctic circle who breed animals for both purposes, there is nothing "humane" about the fur industry. But to each their own.. like I said, by the time the animal has been turned into a coat it's hard to judge whether wearing it is right or wrong. But if this thread becomes an "attack the meat-eaters" forum, I'll be very disappointed.. and angry.
*paws clenched*
*paws clenched*
Raerae
Well-known member
Quote:
It's kinda pointless to argue any animal used today in the meat/dairy/poultry industry are living humane lives... Most animals raised for slaughter do not live a plesant lives, in fact it's often a very short lived lifespan where they are bread and raised as quickly as possible to "adult" status, and then slaughtered. I highly doubt most animals killed in slaughter are given a prayer before they are killed. Maybe Kosher beef lol...
Your forgetting the fact that the meat industry is a BUSINESS. And the vast majority of businesses do not care about, "happy cows." What they do care about though, is PROFIT. And profit means efficiency. Efficiency doesn't care about quality of life.
Female cows for the dairy industry are kept preggo 365 so they produce milk (and more cows), until the cow is spent after 4-5 years, in which case the thanks it gets for making milk is to be turned into burgers.
Male cows, if they aren't turned into veil (plesant life right? the few weeks of it?), are just walking burgers until they grow to maturity, then it's off to slaughter!
Leather is no different. Yes it's a by product, that doesn't make it any less cruel. What about leather made from unborn calves? Yes it's a leather product, and an expensive one too.
No this isn't an attack on meat eaters. Just an attack on beef eaters =P But not for the reasons you think it is.
| Originally Posted by lemurian
Animals raised for food CAN live a pleasant life and be killed with mercy (and sometimes even a little prayer!), which is not the case for animals bred and raised for fur. But if this thread becomes an "attack the meat-eaters" forum, I'll be very disappointed.. and angry. *paws clenched* |
It's kinda pointless to argue any animal used today in the meat/dairy/poultry industry are living humane lives... Most animals raised for slaughter do not live a plesant lives, in fact it's often a very short lived lifespan where they are bread and raised as quickly as possible to "adult" status, and then slaughtered. I highly doubt most animals killed in slaughter are given a prayer before they are killed. Maybe Kosher beef lol...
Your forgetting the fact that the meat industry is a BUSINESS. And the vast majority of businesses do not care about, "happy cows." What they do care about though, is PROFIT. And profit means efficiency. Efficiency doesn't care about quality of life.
Female cows for the dairy industry are kept preggo 365 so they produce milk (and more cows), until the cow is spent after 4-5 years, in which case the thanks it gets for making milk is to be turned into burgers.
Male cows, if they aren't turned into veil (plesant life right? the few weeks of it?), are just walking burgers until they grow to maturity, then it's off to slaughter!
Leather is no different. Yes it's a by product, that doesn't make it any less cruel. What about leather made from unborn calves? Yes it's a leather product, and an expensive one too.
No this isn't an attack on meat eaters. Just an attack on beef eaters =P But not for the reasons you think it is.
Raerae
Well-known member
Quote:
Well considering the fur used was dog fur...
Maybe P Diddy got his fur from some Asian country where they cook cats and dogs on a regular basis? So according to your logic, as long as you eat all the meat, it's ok to use the animals fur.
| Originally Posted by Ladybug10678
Comparing leather to fur is nonsense. When was the last time anyone ate a chinchilla after making a coat out of it? |
Well considering the fur used was dog fur...
Maybe P Diddy got his fur from some Asian country where they cook cats and dogs on a regular basis? So according to your logic, as long as you eat all the meat, it's ok to use the animals fur.
Raerae
Well-known member
Quote:
I also need to respond to this one, cuz it's rather silly...
I suppose I should see if my cat is reading shakespear when he's not chasing fake mice around the house? I'm sure his ancestors have been eating meat for as long as we have. He even eats grass, so he likes his veggies too.
But I'm not seeing his developed mental capacity... lol...
| Originally Posted by lemurian
Humans would never have developed the mental capacity to form an opinion if not for eating animals. |
I also need to respond to this one, cuz it's rather silly...
I suppose I should see if my cat is reading shakespear when he's not chasing fake mice around the house? I'm sure his ancestors have been eating meat for as long as we have. He even eats grass, so he likes his veggies too.
But I'm not seeing his developed mental capacity... lol...
lemurian
Well-known member
Quote:
I don't remember mentioning anything about cats, though maybe you're trying to say that you think less of your cat because he eats meat? You may want to research nutrition (and I'm not talking about the food pyramid) and the pathologies (both mental and physical) caused by lack-therof, evolution of man, what the human brain is made of, etc. You may also want to read up on how there isn't a single group of indiginous people on the planet still eating a traditional diet that do not eat animal foods. If you can get your paws on a copy of Weston A Price's Nutritional and Physical Degeneration, I'm sure we could have ourselves a very interesting discussion
But calling my statement "silly" is itself pretty silly. Are you a proponent of Intelligent Design?
| Originally Posted by Raerae
I also need to respond to this one, cuz it's rather silly... I suppose I should see if my cat is reading shakespear when he's not chasing fake mice around the house? I'm sure his ancestors have been eating meat for as long as we have. He even eats grass, so he likes his veggies too. But I'm not seeing his developed mental capacity... lol... |
I don't remember mentioning anything about cats, though maybe you're trying to say that you think less of your cat because he eats meat? You may want to research nutrition (and I'm not talking about the food pyramid) and the pathologies (both mental and physical) caused by lack-therof, evolution of man, what the human brain is made of, etc. You may also want to read up on how there isn't a single group of indiginous people on the planet still eating a traditional diet that do not eat animal foods. If you can get your paws on a copy of Weston A Price's Nutritional and Physical Degeneration, I'm sure we could have ourselves a very interesting discussion
lemurian
Well-known member
Quote:
I'm not forgetting anything, thank you very much. I live in rural Iowa, I'm the daughter of a livestock farmer and I know where every animal that I eat comes from and how they are raised and slaughtered. I don't buy my meat at the grocery store because I'm quite aware of what the meat industry is and what it involves and how "conventionally" bred livestock are treated. As for the prayer I mentioned, both Kosher and Halal preparations involve prayer. There are alternatives to what you describe above, and if you can't educate yourself on those alternatives your arguments can't carry much weight.
I don't mean to insult anyone's beliefs, I'm all for being as compassionate as logic allows, but having vegans spout off about how wrong it is to eat meat is just intolerable. It is natural and primal and healthy, provided that one can be smart enough to be selective
| Originally Posted by Raerae
It's kinda pointless to argue any animal used today in the meat/dairy/poultry industry are living humane lives... Most animals raised for slaughter do not live a plesant lives, in fact it's often a very short lived lifespan where they are bread and raised as quickly as possible to "adult" status, and then slaughtered. I highly doubt most animals killed in slaughter are given a prayer before they are killed. Maybe Kosher beef lol... Your forgetting the fact that the meat industry is a BUSINESS. |
I'm not forgetting anything, thank you very much. I live in rural Iowa, I'm the daughter of a livestock farmer and I know where every animal that I eat comes from and how they are raised and slaughtered. I don't buy my meat at the grocery store because I'm quite aware of what the meat industry is and what it involves and how "conventionally" bred livestock are treated. As for the prayer I mentioned, both Kosher and Halal preparations involve prayer. There are alternatives to what you describe above, and if you can't educate yourself on those alternatives your arguments can't carry much weight.
I don't mean to insult anyone's beliefs, I'm all for being as compassionate as logic allows, but having vegans spout off about how wrong it is to eat meat is just intolerable. It is natural and primal and healthy, provided that one can be smart enough to be selective
MAC_Whore
Well-known member
Quote:
Not to take away from the seriousness of the topic, but thanks for lightening the mood. It was getting tense again.
| Originally Posted by jenii
Now, I know this is a serious topic and all, and I'm pretty appalled by fur myself, but the only thing I could think of when I saw "dog fur" was "gosh, those coats must really stink when they get wet." Yep, too many years as a dog owner.
|
Not to take away from the seriousness of the topic, but thanks for lightening the mood. It was getting tense again.
Hawkeye
Well-known member
And to further ease the tension (and a little off topic)
Play around with farting dogs:
http://www.gibbleguts.com/harmonics/
Now-can you imagine how funny it would be for everyone to walk around with one of these guys on your neck and them be farting? ROFLMAO
sorry im such a very sick twisted person LOL
Play around with farting dogs:
http://www.gibbleguts.com/harmonics/
Now-can you imagine how funny it would be for everyone to walk around with one of these guys on your neck and them be farting? ROFLMAO
sorry im such a very sick twisted person LOL
MxAxC-_ATTACK
Well-known member
as I was sitting in church tonight. staring at the "faux fur" trim of the coat on the woman in front of me.. I thought about dogs.. then my mind went off on several tangents .. of ticks.... fleas.. then tapeworm... grosss!!! and you know those dogs used were NOT kept in good conditions. ... fleas on your coat! gross! then as i stared further into the fur , i noticed the tips of the fur, was differnt colors.. so my mind went off on a few more tangents on how they did that.. and how the heck do they make faux fur ??. needless to say I didnt do much listening to the service.. lol
MAC_Whore
Well-known member
This popped into my head last night. It would seem to me that it would be pretty easy and inexpensive to just buy the fake fur to use. Just how poorly are these dogs being treated that it is cheapier and easier to board them and slaughter them instead of buying the fake fur? I had a feeling before that their environments were surely pretty horrible, but once I had the above thought, the reality of how atrocious their conditions probably are realy hit me.
Beauty Mark
Well-known member
I'm not sure which kind of fur is cheaper to produce, but I'm willing to bet that real fur is going to have a bigger profit.
