"Skinny Model Ban" in Madrid

[redambition]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Wouldn't Anarexia be considered a disability? I know diseases fall into that catagory because most companies have a dont ask dont tell policy on people personal medical business to avoid lawsuits. Maybe modeling is the only type of work some Ana girls are good at?

girls with anorexia shouldn't be working or being encouraged to work. they should be encouraged to get help and then recover.

it's not a disability or a condition someone should live with. it's a serious, life threatening illness.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Working with the keeping this on topic... Wouldn't that qualify as discrimintion? Whats the definition of unhealthy anyways? As long as someone is capable of doing the job, AKA walking down a runway, at least in CA (obviously this is out of state, but were it to come to my state) it's illegal to discriminate based on RACE, COLOR, RELIGION, SEX, NATIONAL ORIGIN, DISABILITY, and AGE. So restricting BMI wouldn't really be legal, least not in the states. Wouldn't Anarexia be considered a disability? I know diseases fall into that catagory because most companies have a dont ask dont tell policy on people personal medical business to avoid lawsuits. Maybe modeling is the only type of work some Ana girls are good at? Obviously a designer could choose not to use severly un-healthy girls in their "look," but I dont think a blanket ban, or legislation will stand. Least not in the states.

a) It's no more discrimination than setting any other standard for a job.
b) Anorexia is NOT a disability. It is a lifethreatening mental illness and a long term one at that. It would be reasonable to expect job threatening complications from someone suffering anorexia based on the way it affects the mind, body, and tought processes. Lack of proper nutrition is a far reaching and long term situation.
c) All jobs have standards, failing to meet those standards by choice removes any ability to cry "discrimination", as it is a model's choice to take the necessary steps to meet the standards.

The thing about discrimination is that people who DO discriminate are discriminating about something the individual has no choice over; race, age, color, disability etc. fall into this category, religion falls into the category of a personal choice that has no right or reason to be dictated by an outside influence.

To say that a model must be 5'11", angular, and have an 18+ BMI isn't discrimination, as it's a casting call asking for women of a certain look/standard.

Why aren't we addressing the people who have been ignored for years? The women under 5'10"? Josie Maran is one of the shortest runway models at five-six, after that, it's pretty much a no-go. This is "discrimination" on a much larger scale than BMI ever applies to.

 

[Beauty Mark]

If we ever see models under the normal standards, I'm guessing they'll be midgets or dwarfs used for shock value over actual modeling.

I don't see the ban as discrimination, because most jobs will have regulations and gov't laws set up to prevent dangerous situations. While I see eating disorders as a serious mental illness, I don't think they're a disability. I'm too tired to think up a better definition, but you can at least overcome an eating disorder through treatments and work; you can't always start walking or seeing or using the same amount of your brain that everyone else does through any treatments.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer To say that a model must be 5'11", angular, and have an 18+ BMI isn't discrimination, as it's a casting call asking for women of a certain look/standard.

Having a "set desired look" is fine. The above is totally fine with me, IF, women under 18BMI could also work. There is a difference between saying, "we have a specific look we want, and we'll choose models accordingly aka casting call." And, legally (assuming legislation went through, or in this case the bane @ that show) if your under 18BMI you can't work, regardless of your look.

Thats why I object to the complete and total ban. Because it's the wrong way to go about it.

Encouraging designers/agencies to hire healthy looking models is one thing. Throwing them out because they dont weigh enough on a scale is completely different.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by redambition girls with anorexia shouldn't be working or being encouraged to work. they should be encouraged to get help and then recover.

Oh right. You know how many lawsuits would be filed if companies started firing people because of diseases mental or not? Most companies have dont ask dont tell policies for a reason.

Go to your HR department and ask for their workplace discrimination policies. If you fired a girl for being anarexic, and she was completely capable of doing her job. Be that modeling, working at a desk, whatever, you would have lawyers knocking on the companies doors in no time. Companies can't encourage their employees to go get help. Especially if their not breaking any laws. And as far as I know it's not illegal to be ana.

Discrimination laws, at their most basic are: Can you do the job in it's entirety, and if needed with reasonable accomodation? If the answer is YES (in this case for most models, walking down the runway is something they can do), then the company must consider you with out bias. It's not limited to AGE/RACE/SEX etc. It's anything at all that could make a employer choose not to hire (or fire) a person who is completely capable of doing the job, would be considered discrimination.

From: http://www.hcd.ca.gov/fa/home/cont-mgmt-man-ch-9.pdf#search='CA%20equal%20opportunity%20laws'

Equal Opportunity in Housing, Employment and Contracting

Federal fair housing and equal opportunity laws prohibit discrimination against any person (prospective tenant, homebuyer, employment applicants, employees and businesses) on the basis of race, color, religion, age, familial status, disability, national origin, sex, or any other arbitrary basis.

I'm fairly sure anarexia would be covered under the bold section. Don't believe me? Go ask your HR department, I'm sure they would agree.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark I don't see the ban as discrimination, because most jobs will have regulations and gov't laws set up to prevent dangerous situations.

Being Anarexic isn't a "dangerious situation." Yes it has life threatening complications at it's most severe. But what doesn't? If the model is capable of doing her job, you have to let her. Now if she's falling over from malnutrition and needs medical attention, thats a different story.

Driving is dangerious, people get killed driving all the time. How about Smoking? Or drinking alcohol? We put ourselves in dangerious situations all the time yet dont think anything about them.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Why aren't we addressing the people who have been ignored for years? The women under 5'10"? Josie Maran is one of the shortest runway models at five-six, after that, it's pretty much a no-go. This is "discrimination" on a much larger scale than BMI ever applies to.

There is also no official rule on the books saying, "women under 5'6" can't be models." Designers just choose to hire taller women. However, should they want too, they can use shorter women.

Thats the difference. Saying we dont want to show unhealthy looking models in our show and you need to gain weight to participate, is completely different than saying, "Any model under 18 bmi, regardless of how she looks, cannot participate."

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Being Anarexic isn't a "dangerious situation." Yes it has life threatening complications at it's most severe. But what doesn't? If the model is capable of doing her job, you have to let her. Now if she's falling over from malnutrition and needs medical attention, thats a different story. Driving is dangerious, people get killed driving all the time. How about Smoking? Or drinking alcohol? We put ourselves in dangerious situations all the time yet dont think anything about them.

This is the most unhealthy, enabling, state of denial post I've read yet in this thread.
You're actually going to put this forth as serious and inarguable thought/fact?

You don't have to be "falling over" from malnutrition to need medical attention...The underlying effects of ana/mia are part of the serious problem. The effects that no one sees until the autopsy is run. Good grief.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae There is also no official rule on the books saying, "women under 5'6" can't be models." Designers just choose to hire taller women. However, should they want too, they can use shorter women. Thats the difference. Saying we dont want to show unhealthy looking models in our show and you need to gain weight to participate, is completely different than saying, "Any model under 18 bmi, regardless of how she looks, cannot participate."

Participate? Will not be hired.
It's a standard.
A standard, that's all.
It's also something that, hey guess what? You're under 18...ok, well next show we do, come back and be over 18 and you've got the job.

It's not a look RaeRae. That's what you're hanging this on, saying "Oh, we do/don't want a certain look"...
It's not about a look.
It's about being responsible for the image that's projected by the women walking the runways, and the models being responsible for maintaining their health.

 

[Shimmer]

Regarding your post about discrimination laws you're ignoring a) the nature of the industry, and b) the fact that it's not discrimination, it's a standard that anyone, regardless of race, color, religion, whatever, must be able to meet.
It's simply part of the job.

The nature of the industry, that's the same as saying that Luke Wilson can bring forth discrimination suits based on the fact that he wanted the female lead in Romeo and Juliet and couldn't have it because he's a) male and b) too old.

 

[quandolak]

I cannot belive there are so many people on this thread that are seriosuly saying it is OK...to have unhealthy thin models out there.

Since when has being unhealthy yet fashionable been so friggin cool.

 

[giz2000]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Being Anarexic isn't a "dangerious situation." Yes it has life threatening complications at it's most severe. But what doesn't? If the model is capable of doing her job, you have to let her. Now if she's falling over from malnutrition and needs medical attention, thats a different story. Driving is dangerious, people get killed driving all the time. How about Smoking? Or drinking alcohol? We put ourselves in dangerious situations all the time yet dont think anything about them.

Someone who is anorexic IS suffering from malnutrition AND needs medical attention...it's self-imposed, but it's malnutrition just the same.

 

[quandolak]

lmao being anorexic isnt dangerous wtf...that has to be the daftest thing ive heard in along time.

Compared to driving ,smoking and alcohol it is by far the most dangerous.

Its like saying cutting my veins isnt dangerous cos bungeejumping carries a risk....

I dont btw cut my veins....

 

[redambition]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Oh right. You know how many lawsuits would be filed if companies started firing people because of diseases mental or not? Most companies have dont ask dont tell policies for a reason. Go to your HR department and ask for their workplace discrimination policies. If you fired a girl for being anarexic, and she was completely capable of doing her job. Be that modeling, working at a desk, whatever, you would have lawyers knocking on the companies doors in no time. Companies can't encourage their employees to go get help. Especially if their not breaking any laws. And as far as I know it's not illegal to be ana. Discrimination laws, at their most basic are: Can you do the job in it's entirety, and if needed with reasonable accomodation? If the answer is YES (in this case for most models, walking down the runway is something they can do), then the company must consider you with out bias. It's not limited to AGE/RACE/SEX etc. It's anything at all that could make a employer choose not to hire (or fire) a person who is completely capable of doing the job, would be considered discrimination. From: http://www.hcd.ca.gov/fa/home/cont-mgmt-man-ch-9.pdf#search='CA%20equal%20opportunity%20laws' Equal Opportunity in Housing, Employment and Contracting Federal fair housing and equal opportunity laws prohibit discrimination against any person (prospective tenant, homebuyer, employment applicants, employees and businesses) on the basis of race, color, religion, age, familial status, disability, national origin, sex, or any other arbitrary basis. I'm fairly sure anarexia would be covered under the bold section. Don't believe me? Go ask your HR department, I'm sure they would agree.

way to twist my words.

i didn't say anything about firing people from their jobs because they have anorexia.

i said: "girls with anorexia shouldn't be working or being encouraged to work. they should be encouraged to get help and then recover."

saying to someone "you shouldn't be at work today because you're not well, take the day off and get better" is different to saying "you're not well so we are firing you."

someone who has anorexia shouldn't be encouraged to get a job, or return to work by their family or friends (and indeed, their boss, if their boss is a human being who is understanding) until they are well on the road to recovery. it's such a serious condition and it takes many months for the body and mind to heal adequately. in a work environment there can be so many triggers that can help set it off again - including stress, so you shouldn't put someone recovering from anorexia (or, indeed, alcoholism, drug addiction etc) in that type of situation, as it can be a cause of relapse.

of course, if the person won't admit they have a problem is when it gets very difficult. it's still my opinion that family and friends should NOT be encouraging this person to hold on to their job and go to work every day if their health is suffering. if it was my friend, i'd be begging her to chuck her job or take some time off to get well before she ends up forcibly hospitalised, suffering from severe malnutrition.

in no way did i say that they should be discriminated against.

as for companies not being able to encourage their employees to get help for whatever reason. they can. they don't often do it in the open (for obvious reasons), but a manager/colleague can voice concerns to someone about their health, especially if they have a good working relationship with that person. some companies even go as far as supplying counselling services for their employees (to use for any reason) - that to me is most definitely encouraging someone to get help if they think they might need it.

 

[little teaser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by redambition way to twist my words. i didn't say anything about firing people from their jobs because they have anorexia. i said: "girls with anorexia shouldn't be working or being encouraged to work. they should be encouraged to get help and then recover." saying to someone "you shouldn't be at work today because you're not well, take the day off and get better" is different to saying "you're not well so we are firing you." someone who has anorexia shouldn't be encouraged to get a job, or return to work by their family or friends (and indeed, their boss, if their boss is a human being who is understanding) until they are well on the road to recovery. it's such a serious condition and it takes many months for the body and mind to heal adequately. in a work environment there can be so many triggers that can help set it off again - including stress, so you shouldn't put someone recovering from anorexia (or, indeed, alcoholism, drug addiction etc) in that type of situation, as it can be a cause of relapse. of course, if the person won't admit they have a problem is when it gets very difficult. it's still my opinion that family and friends should NOT be encouraging this person to hold on to their job and go to work every day if their health is suffering. if it was my friend, i'd be begging her to chuck her job or take some time off to get well before she ends up forcibly hospitalised, suffering from severe malnutrition. in no way did i say that they should be discriminated against. as for companies not being able to encourage their employees to get help for whatever reason. they can. they don't often do it in the open (for obvious reasons), but a manager/colleague can voice concerns to someone about their health, especially if they have a good working relationship with that person. some companies even go as far as supplying counselling services for their employees (to use for any reason) - that to me is most definitely encouraging someone to get help if they think they might need it.

then maybe OVER WEIGHT or obest people should take a break from there job's untill they get 'better" i mean how crazy does that sound no matter how you try to word it!!

 

[redambition]

Quote:

Originally Posted by little teaser then maybe OVER WEIGHT or obest people should take a break from there job's untill they get 'better" i mean how crazy does that sound no matter how you try to word it!!

it does work both ways. there are obese people that do have to take time out of work (or quit work) for health reasons too. the issue here is that health problems which arise from obesity aren't the same (or as direct) as someone who is anorexic.

health problems which have obesity/being overweight and poor lifestyle habits as a big contributing factor are well known for people having to take time off work or having to quit their jobs. cardiovascular disease. type 2 diabetes (which can lead to blindness and/or gangrene). hypertension. cancer. arthritis. gall bladder problems. severe depression. malnutrition (if poor eating habits are the cause)

yes, i know that all of these health problems are not exclusive to people who are overweight, but there have been links found between obesity and the increased risk of having the health problems listed above.

i don't understand why it sounds so ridiculous to some when i suggest that people who are anorexic do have a major health problem and need treatment.

 

[little teaser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by redambition it does work both ways. there are obese people that do have to take time out of work (or quit work) for health reasons too. the issue here is that health problems which arise from obesity aren't the same (or as direct) as someone who is anorexic. health problems which have obesity/being overweight and poor lifestyle habits as a big contributing factor are well known for people having to take time off work or having to quit their jobs. cardiovascular disease. type 2 diabetes (which can lead to blindness and/or gangrene). hypertension. cancer. arthritis. gall bladder problems. severe depression. malnutrition (if poor eating habits are the cause) yes, i know that all of these health problems are not exclusive to people who are overweight, but there have been links found between obesity and the increased risk of having the health problems listed above. i don't understand why it sounds so ridiculous to some when i suggest that people who are anorexic do have a major health problem and need treatment.

im not saying that people with severe anorexic dont have heath problems but if it's that severe i dont think employers would have to ban or give them time to get "better" because the person would probley be to sick to walk in to work to begain with just like severe obest people who cant peform at work wouldnt be able to walk to there car or even get out of bed and how often do you see a anorexic in your every day life running around that looks like they need to be in the hospital?? i hardly ever and when i do it's drug related but almost everyday that i go out either to work shopping out to eat or whatever i see a over weight person that does not look healthy but still function in there job's

 

[Shimmer]

A person doesn't have to be falling over to need help when suffering anorexia.
A person doesnt' have to be fainting, unable to move, weakkneed, or whatever else stereotypical image might come to mind. Look at Kate Bosworth for example.
The internal damage from anorexia, mentally and physically, is quite possibly worse than the damage from obesity.

 

[Beauty Mark]

I'm not sure about the mental aspect, but I know that an eating disorder that deprives your body of food is worse than one that gives your body too much

 

[little teaser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark I'm not sure about the mental aspect, but I know that an eating disorder that deprives your body of food is worse than one that gives your body too much

I HIT THE THANKYOU BUTTON WHICH I DIDNT MEAN TOO so your trying to say the effects of a eating disorder that deprives you is worst than the effects of one that gives you to much was i reading that correct?