Split - Barbie: race issues, image issues
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Indigowaters
Well-known member
Quote:
And? I'm tired of people quoting me without reading the whole post. I did not condone the "actions" of the Bratz Dolls once I found out more, which I'm sure is in this thread. It might have gotten lost when the thread was split from the original post. But I thought I was allowed to have an opinion too, or do I have to get a special pass to speak my mind?
Originally Posted by MxAxC-_ATTACK
That was rather Rude. |
And? I'm tired of people quoting me without reading the whole post. I did not condone the "actions" of the Bratz Dolls once I found out more, which I'm sure is in this thread. It might have gotten lost when the thread was split from the original post. But I thought I was allowed to have an opinion too, or do I have to get a special pass to speak my mind?
Indigowaters
Well-known member
Quote:
I think you wore yours out.
| Originally Posted by Raerae
You have to ask Shimmer for one of those. She still hasn't given me mine. |
I think you wore yours out.
MxAxC-_ATTACK
Well-known member
Quote:
No, I was only saying that, as someone who is new here, she comes in and quotes you then puts in her two-cents on the bratz dolls, then she gets a response like "why are you using such an old quote, OH your new"
it just comes off as rude to someone who is new here, at least they started to read the topic, unlike some people who just jump right in. I wasn't saying that you couldn't have an opinion, Your opinion is just as welcome as everyone else's, however There were no "opinions" in what you said.. all you said was "oh your new never mind" and its not like she was attacking you, she only was stating what she saw on the Bratz cartoon.
Its just that if it were me just starting to join a new board, and I got a response like that, I would not feel very welcome. Thats all.
| Originally Posted by Indigowaters
And? I'm tired of people quoting me without reading the whole post. I did not condone the "actions" of the Bratz Dolls once I found out more, which I'm sure is in this thread. It might have gotten lost when the thread was split from the original post. But I thought I was allowed to have an opinion too, or do I have to get a special pass to speak my mind?
|
No, I was only saying that, as someone who is new here, she comes in and quotes you then puts in her two-cents on the bratz dolls, then she gets a response like "why are you using such an old quote, OH your new"
it just comes off as rude to someone who is new here, at least they started to read the topic, unlike some people who just jump right in. I wasn't saying that you couldn't have an opinion, Your opinion is just as welcome as everyone else's, however There were no "opinions" in what you said.. all you said was "oh your new never mind" and its not like she was attacking you, she only was stating what she saw on the Bratz cartoon.
Its just that if it were me just starting to join a new board, and I got a response like that, I would not feel very welcome. Thats all.
Shimmer
Well-known member
Indigowaters
Well-known member
Quote:
I will. It just seems like everytime someone sees my name on a subject they feel the need to come in and argue with everything I say without reading the post. I'm not here to argue, I'm here to give my opinion just as everyone else. I can take constructive criticism when it's given in an approach but not an attack. So please be mindful of that if you're wanting someone to respect your opinion as well.
| Originally Posted by Raerae
Please. Your speak your mind as much as I do. |
I will. It just seems like everytime someone sees my name on a subject they feel the need to come in and argue with everything I say without reading the post. I'm not here to argue, I'm here to give my opinion just as everyone else. I can take constructive criticism when it's given in an approach but not an attack. So please be mindful of that if you're wanting someone to respect your opinion as well.
Raerae
Well-known member
Quote:
I think everyone is way to sensitive about the, "omg you didn't read my post thing." (guilty myself at times).
Reading a post and understanding exactly what the author wrote are two completely different things. Remember back in english class where they had us interpret novels by famous authors. When asked what someone though about a certain quote, no one in the class had the same opinion on it. Sometimes they were similar, but often times they were very different.
The same thing happens here. People write things that have several meanings. Maybe the meaning the Author wrote, was totally different in intent, then the reader. As a result, the Author gets questioned. But rather than clarifying, the Author just misinterprets what the 2nd poster said.
Just because you think everyone else reading your post understands what you said, doesn't mean everyone did. Also. Oftentimes the people that are on your same wavelength, dont post. They might give you a Thanks, or nothing at all. So it's not to far fetched to think that most of the time the people who have a question about your post, or a disagreement, might have just taken it differently than you had intended?
| Originally Posted by Indigowaters
I will. It just seems like everytime someone sees my name on a subject they feel the need to come in and argue with everything I say without reading the post. |
I think everyone is way to sensitive about the, "omg you didn't read my post thing." (guilty myself at times).
Reading a post and understanding exactly what the author wrote are two completely different things. Remember back in english class where they had us interpret novels by famous authors. When asked what someone though about a certain quote, no one in the class had the same opinion on it. Sometimes they were similar, but often times they were very different.
The same thing happens here. People write things that have several meanings. Maybe the meaning the Author wrote, was totally different in intent, then the reader. As a result, the Author gets questioned. But rather than clarifying, the Author just misinterprets what the 2nd poster said.
Just because you think everyone else reading your post understands what you said, doesn't mean everyone did. Also. Oftentimes the people that are on your same wavelength, dont post. They might give you a Thanks, or nothing at all. So it's not to far fetched to think that most of the time the people who have a question about your post, or a disagreement, might have just taken it differently than you had intended?
Beauty Mark
Well-known member
Come on, let's get back to Barbie and the topic.
Do you think it's worse when a doll series tries to include different races and blatantly leaves out one? Mattel also owns the American Girl doll (a doll collection for young girls themed around history) collection, and I've always noticed how they don't have any Asian dolls.
Do you think it's worse when a doll series tries to include different races and blatantly leaves out one? Mattel also owns the American Girl doll (a doll collection for young girls themed around history) collection, and I've always noticed how they don't have any Asian dolls.
*Stargazer*
Well-known member
Quote:
The Girl of the Year for 2006, Jess, is the doll my daughter got for Christmas this year, cause she looked just like my little girl. Her bio lists her as Asian.
| Originally Posted by Beauty Mark
Come on, let's get back to Barbie and the topic. Do you think it's worse when a doll series tries to include different races and blatantly leaves out one? Mattel also owns the American Girl doll (a doll collection for young girls themed around history) collection, and I've always noticed how they don't have any Asian dolls. |
The Girl of the Year for 2006, Jess, is the doll my daughter got for Christmas this year, cause she looked just like my little girl. Her bio lists her as Asian.
Beauty Mark
Well-known member
Quote:
I think if they try to present a certain image, they should live up to it. If they want to Barbie to be about a blonde woman who has a million careers, go for it. But if they want Barbie to be racially inclusive and advertise her as such, I think they should put up an effort to do that.
People have the right to create businesses and sell whatever they want, even if it's made to resemble certain people or lifestyle. IMO, it's hypocritical to pretend that that's your goal if you overlook a group; that was more of my point with up until 2006, there not being an American Girl doll that was Asian. The company is trying to cater to many different groups and tell a multicultural story about the US. That's great, and I laud them for it. But I don't see why they have to overlook such a huge group of people.
I'm not saying that is or isn't the case with Barbie; I'm not 100% sure what the overall goal of or message Barbie is supposed to represent. I honestly don't think Barbie is supposed to be anything more than a doll little girls dress up and leave laying around nude when they get a better Barbie.
| Originally Posted by Shimmer
My question is when does it stop? When does corporate responsibility for catering to every public whim reach the breaking point? Do businesses like Mattel HAVE a responsibility to create dolls for every look/style/race? |
I think if they try to present a certain image, they should live up to it. If they want to Barbie to be about a blonde woman who has a million careers, go for it. But if they want Barbie to be racially inclusive and advertise her as such, I think they should put up an effort to do that.
People have the right to create businesses and sell whatever they want, even if it's made to resemble certain people or lifestyle. IMO, it's hypocritical to pretend that that's your goal if you overlook a group; that was more of my point with up until 2006, there not being an American Girl doll that was Asian. The company is trying to cater to many different groups and tell a multicultural story about the US. That's great, and I laud them for it. But I don't see why they have to overlook such a huge group of people.
I'm not saying that is or isn't the case with Barbie; I'm not 100% sure what the overall goal of or message Barbie is supposed to represent. I honestly don't think Barbie is supposed to be anything more than a doll little girls dress up and leave laying around nude when they get a better Barbie.
little teaser
Well-known member
does it really matter what race or how the doll looks?? i mean every one is always talking about racist and discrimination but isnt that what your being toward a lifeless doll cause she dont look like your race so you cant relate, im half asian/white i dont think i ever had a doll look just like me but i didnt love or like her any less i dont think kids read into things as much as adults.. in asia most of the cartoons food clothes and dolls are asian right?? well in the us it's no diffrent
Indigowaters
Well-known member
Quote:
I think the thing is like Beauty_Mark said: if they want Barbie to be racially inclusive and advertise her as such, I think they should put up an effort to do that.
It does matter to me because minorities are underrepresented in alot of things so I want to show my daughter (in the future) that someone that looks like her can achieve all of these things too. Children are not as blind as we like to make them out to be. They notice the differences in hair and skin color and that's a good thing. As you mentioned, in Asia, yes the dolls and cartoons may feature Asian features because it's Asia. I have never been there but I'm pretty sure that the majority of people that live there are Asian. However, the US of A has always been considered a melting pot of people so why shouldn't such a big company want to create dolls that identify with children of different colors? I think they would make more money if they included more positive images of different races, and not the mainstream look. Are we not supposed to want to be included too? (That was rhetorical.)
| Originally Posted by little teaser
does it really matter what race or how the doll looks?? i mean every one is always talking about racist and discrimination but isnt that what your being toward a lifeless doll cause she dont look like your race so you cant relate, im half asian/white i dont think i ever had a doll look just like me but i didnt love or like her any less i dont think kids read into things as much as adults.. in asia most of the cartoons food clothes and dolls are asian right?? well in the us it's no diffrent |
I think the thing is like Beauty_Mark said: if they want Barbie to be racially inclusive and advertise her as such, I think they should put up an effort to do that.
It does matter to me because minorities are underrepresented in alot of things so I want to show my daughter (in the future) that someone that looks like her can achieve all of these things too. Children are not as blind as we like to make them out to be. They notice the differences in hair and skin color and that's a good thing. As you mentioned, in Asia, yes the dolls and cartoons may feature Asian features because it's Asia. I have never been there but I'm pretty sure that the majority of people that live there are Asian. However, the US of A has always been considered a melting pot of people so why shouldn't such a big company want to create dolls that identify with children of different colors? I think they would make more money if they included more positive images of different races, and not the mainstream look. Are we not supposed to want to be included too? (That was rhetorical.)
Shimmer
Well-known member
What does skin color have to do with achievement though?
What do a person's looks have to do with it?
Indigowaters: Why can't your daughter look at a woman and emulate her regardless of race? Why does she have to have a strong BLACK woman as her example, why can't she have a STRONG WOMAN, regardless of race, as an example emulate her? Whomever that may be...she should (IMO, of course) look at a strong female and not worry about her skintone.
You know what race means?
Nothing.
Not a thing.
It doesn't mean a damn thing other than a black person has more pigmentation than I do. Other than that, it doesn't mean anything but what an individual MAKES it mean.
I don't identify with another woman because she's white. I identify with another woman because we share ideals, beliefs, ethics, and morals.
THAT, imo, is what we should be teaching our children...NOT to seek out people of the same race to use as an example.
eta:
This isn't directed necessarily at any one person except where noted, it's simply something I've been trying to articulate for a bit.
What do a person's looks have to do with it?
Indigowaters: Why can't your daughter look at a woman and emulate her regardless of race? Why does she have to have a strong BLACK woman as her example, why can't she have a STRONG WOMAN, regardless of race, as an example emulate her? Whomever that may be...she should (IMO, of course) look at a strong female and not worry about her skintone.
You know what race means?
Nothing.
Not a thing.
It doesn't mean a damn thing other than a black person has more pigmentation than I do. Other than that, it doesn't mean anything but what an individual MAKES it mean.
I don't identify with another woman because she's white. I identify with another woman because we share ideals, beliefs, ethics, and morals.
THAT, imo, is what we should be teaching our children...NOT to seek out people of the same race to use as an example.
eta:
This isn't directed necessarily at any one person except where noted, it's simply something I've been trying to articulate for a bit.
Beauty Mark
Well-known member
Quote:
That's the point I was going to make about comparing the US and Asia.
When kids play with dolls, I don't think they're thinking that it's racist that they don't have a doll that looks like them. However, most kids pretend that their doll is their child. Kids don't fully understand adoption or readily think of it. It makes sense that company, knowing that (or should know that) would want to create dolls that resemble their owner.
I was distant from my dolls growing up and never saw them as my children. I mostly used them to act out trashy soap opera storylines
| . However, the US of A has always been considered a melting pot of people so why shouldn't such a big company want to create dolls that identify with children of different colors? I think they would make more money if they included more positive images of different races, and not the mainstream look. Are we not supposed to want to be included too? (That was rhetorical.) |
That's the point I was going to make about comparing the US and Asia.
When kids play with dolls, I don't think they're thinking that it's racist that they don't have a doll that looks like them. However, most kids pretend that their doll is their child. Kids don't fully understand adoption or readily think of it. It makes sense that company, knowing that (or should know that) would want to create dolls that resemble their owner.
I was distant from my dolls growing up and never saw them as my children. I mostly used them to act out trashy soap opera storylines
Indigowaters
Well-known member
I understand what you're saying but if race doesn't mean a thing what is the problem with us wanting a doll our color? It's not going to hurt the family down the block if I let my daughter play with a black Barbie and not a white one. Heck, I may even buy Barbies or whatever positive-image doll is out at that time in different colors so that the child will have a real sense of how there are people of different colors and that they can get along. But if no one is making them, how will that be possible?
