The 44th President Obama!!!!

[ClaireAvril]

No one is asking you to study one group only. Take the initiative and learn about whatever you want.
No one is saying you can only celebrate black history.. What I want to know is what is stopping you from celebrating other groups?

Holidays ARE about the celebration of what happened in history
Christmas - celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ
Valentines day has a history.. every holiday is usually about something that happened in history and that day was marked so that every year it can be remembered and celebrated.

How can one not celebrate what happened in the past? What about your independence day?.. if it weren't for history maybe you wouldn't be here right now or have the rights that you currently have and for that reason history should never be forgotten and should always be celebrated.

 

[FullWroth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dizzy Methinks you missed her point. She suggests we learn about history in its entirety, not just specialize in one group. It's impossible to study one group without studying the others; it's also impossible to study it through sanitized versions. She's suggesting we study history as it happened regardless of which groups contributed to it. Holidays are about celebration. History is not about celebration. It's about facts, events and people and how all three cumulatively shape our current realities.

Bingo!

And *whose* black history are we talking about, anyway? All I ever really see during black history month is black AMERICAN history, sometimes with some South Africa thrown in just to emphasize the OMG APARTHEID. What about all those black people in like, every other part of the world? Kenya is not Nigeria is not South Africa is not Egypt is not England is not Haiti is not Jamaica. It's not like black people just didn't exist until slave traders found them (which is an incredibly dangerous racist slope to be treading on - did black people not have a culture worth teaching until those nice white and hispanic people gave them some? REALLY? think so?). They had their own assorted cultures, and they still do, and yet we know next to nothing about them here. When's the last time anyone even heard a mainstream news story about Africa that wasn't about something horrible happening there?

I like history. I love it, in fact, even though it's an unholy mess once you really start looking into it. White, black, asian, hispanic, I love your history. It rocks. Even the parts you're really embarrassed about (I'm looking at you, Third Crusade). That's why I want it integrated rather than divided up by month. If a black dude invented something, I wanna learn about it when I'm learning about the white dude who invented something, not on a special month when it's finally okay to mention the black dude. His skin color shouldn't be the defining factor of his worth to history (look! look! a black guy invented something!) - the fact that he was a freaking genius should, and both black AND white kids should be able to look up to him.

 

[Dizzy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClaireAvril No one is asking you to study one group only. Take the initiative and learn about whatever you want. No one is saying you can only celebrate black history.. What I want to know is what is stopping you from celebrating other groups? Holidays ARE about the celebration of what happened in history Christmas - celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ Valentines day has a history.. every holiday is usually about something that happened in history and that day was marked so that every year it can be remembered and celebrated. How can one not celebrate what happened in the past? What about your independence day?.. if it weren't for history maybe you wouldn't be here right now or have the rights that you currently have and for that reason history should never be forgotten and should always be celebrated.

Never said that events shouldn't be celebrated.
Never said that events shouldn't be recognized in some fashion.

My point is that celebration has no basis in history with an academic focus. Learning about an event on your own time is a completely different topic- that is your own choice. But in regards to history as it is taught in schools (which truly is the only place "insert demographic" history month matters) it shouldn't be necessary. History should be taught as it happened- both in facts and chronologically. We shouldn't need a celebratory occasion to properly teach history.

If it were taught via a sensible curriculum, celebratory months for specific peoples would be unnecessary. Which, if we are all people, is as it should be. Holidays are a separate event- they are to be celebrated by those who identify with it (whether by culture, interest, religious, etc.), it shouldn't be used as an excuse to suddenly cram hundreds of years of history into thirty days and expect people to have adequate knowledge and appreciation of the subject.

 

[SparklingWaves]

B.H. Obama is not the first multiracial President. All Presidents are multiracial. All humans are multiracial. It's called the human race. There is no such thing as a Purebred "white" person.

Those statements is what feeds into building the walls of segregation between the skin tone variations.

There is one history - human history.

Define for me who is white and where do they live? Is there a DNA test to back up that these Presidents are indeed 100% "white" and nothing else?

I was NEVER told in school, "SparklingWaves, today, we are going to learn about all of the 43 white Presidents." First off, there was never a class in grammar school or High School that went into each one of these men's history and their genealogy.

Speaking of genealogy, B.H. Obama is distantly related to Bush and Dick the Vice President. Isn't that special?

Hey, you really want to get people up in arms. Tell them, "We are all black". That's right! Scientists are saying there is proof we all originated from Africa and that your fairest friends and Asians have black origins. Well, what does that make us all? If one drop or trace makes a person black, we are all more black than we realize. What a shocker! Did anyone faint?

It means the human race did it all - slavery, human sacrifice, rape, torture, segregation, headshrinking, beheading, war, agism, sexism, cannibalism, etc. Own it people.

If we are all more black genetically speaking, who is to blame for everything now?

 

[ClaireAvril]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SparklingWaves B.H. Obama is not the first multiracial President. All Presidents are multiracial. All humans are multiracial. It's called the human race. There is no such thing as a Purebred "white" person. Those statements is what feeds into building the walls of segregation between the skin tone variations. There is one history - human history. Define for me who is white and where do they live? Is there a DNA test to back up that these Presidents are indeed 100% "white" and nothing else? I was NEVER told in school, "SparklingWaves, today, we are going to learn about all of the 43 white Presidents." First off, there was never a class in grammar school or High School that went into each one of these men's history and their genealogy. Speaking of genealogy, B.H. Obama is distantly related to Bush and Dick the Vice President. Isn't that special? Hey, you really want to get people up in arms. Tell them, "We are all black". That's right! Scientists are saying there is proof we all originated from Africa and that your fairest friends and Asians have black origins. Well, what does that make us all? If one drop or trace makes a person black, we are all more black than we realize. What a shocker! Did anyone faint? It means the human race did it all - slavery, human sacrifice, rape, torture, segregation, headshrinking, beheading, war, agism, sexism, cannibalism, etc. Own it people. If we are all more black genetically speaking, who is to blame for everything now?

*applause** standing ovation!

 

[hotmodelchiq]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SparklingWaves B.H. Obama is not the first multiracial President. All Presidents are multiracial. All humans are multiracial. It's called the human race. There is no such thing as a Purebred "white" person. Those statements is what feeds into building the walls of segregation between the skin tone variations. There is one history - human history. Define for me who is white and where do they live? Is there a DNA test to back up that these Presidents are indeed 100% "white" and nothing else? I was NEVER told in school, "SparklingWaves, today, we are going to learn about all of the 43 white Presidents." First off, there was never a class in grammar school or High School that went into each one of these men's history and their genealogy. Speaking of genealogy, B.H. Obama is distantly related to Bush and Dick the Vice President. Isn't that special? Hey, you really want to get people up in arms. Tell them, "We are all black". That's right! Scientists are saying there is proof we all originated from Africa and that your fairest friends and Asians have black origins. Well, what does that make us all? If one drop or trace makes a person black, we are all more black than we realize. What a shocker! Did anyone faint? It means the human race did it all - slavery, human sacrifice, rape, torture, segregation, headshrinking, beheading, war, agism, sexism, cannibalism, etc. Own it people. If we are all more black genetically speaking, who is to blame for everything now?

 

[hotmodelchiq]

The African dispora is the spread of Africans to other countries... so black history month is really only "supposed" to be about Africans who came to this country, their legacy and their future here and the contributions that were made to American society ... The only reason we have this month is because Carter G. Woodson (the man who created this "month") saw something missing and took initiative (in 1926) to change or fix that flaw... like ClaireAvril said if you dont want to celebrate it don't, and you can write your local congressman start a petition and get them to start a national Ukranian American holiday of your very own so you can be represented too... I think the thing that caucasian people miss is that no matter whether your heritage is Ukrainian, French, Yugoslavian, Dutch, Polish, Irish, Swiss, Austrian or czechlaslovakian to a person of color you are "white" until you open your mouth. Everyone has an important heritage that needs to be celebrated. But again speaking as a teacher there are curriculums that have to be followed and standardized tests that have to be given by all states and all of our melting pot history is quite frankly impossible to fit into the now crowded curriclum. Like I said before the history curriculum needs a MASSIVE overhaul!!! Something I do with my students that many teachers dont do is I find out the cultural backgrounds of all my students and we have multicultural day every 2nd Friday of the month with food music and other things that are relevant to each childs culture!

 

[MxAxC-_ATTACK]

I like pickles.

 

[FullWroth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotmodelchiq and you can write your local congressman start a petition and get them to start a national Ukranian American holiday of your very own so you can be represented too...

I think you're missing my point. I don't WANT a stupid Ukrainian awareness day. Everyone's history matters *all of the time*, not just when the government or a charity group tells you you should be paying attention to it. Black history doesn't stop existing outside of the month of February. I'm a little amazed that you don't find it insulting that people would rather throw you one month of the year than take the time to actually integrate black history into the current curriculum. You talk about needing to give black kids more role models who actually look like them, and needing to celebrate black history more, but what kind of a message are we sending to these kids by pulling the black historical figures out of the attic one month a year and then going back to business as usual the other 11 months? You don't think it a little discouraging to them that the white kids get to see their role models all year round and they don't?

Black history month was a good idea when the majority of people still thought that blacks were inferior in intelligence to whites and nobody would even THINK of integrating black history into the general history curriculum. It was a good way to point out that hey, look, black people can do this stuff too! But I think we're a little further than that now, and we need to stop this separatist nonsense and just integrate already! Let the black kids and the white kids learn together about everyone's role models. Let them SEE how equal these people are by studying them at the same time. Kids can smell bullshit. When you TELL them blacks are equal and then never study blacks in history except when everyone HAS to, the words don't match up with the actions.

Quote:

I think the thing that caucasian people miss is that no matter whether your heritage is Ukrainian, French, Yugoslavian, Dutch, Polish, Irish, Swiss, Austrian or czechlaslovakian to a person of color you are "white" until you open your mouth.

And what you're missing is that I don't necessarily LIKE that. Just because my skin color's white, I'm supposed to identify with a bunch of white people from completely different cultures than mine, whose views may be completely alien to me? Why is it okay to group all of us together just because we share a skin color?

 

[benzito_714]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SparklingWaves Hey, you really want to get people up in arms. Tell them, "We are all black". That's right! Scientists are saying there is proof we all originated from Africa and that your fairest friends and Asians have black origins. Well, what does that make us all? If one drop or trace makes a person black, we are all more black than we realize. What a shocker! Did anyone faint? It means the human race did it all - slavery, human sacrifice, rape, torture, segregation, headshrinking, beheading, war, agism, sexism, cannibalism, etc. Own it people. If we are all more black genetically speaking, who is to blame for everything now?

Now don't you go upsetting people telling them facts about us ALL originating from Africa. Not everyone wants to know that. Ohh especially if they realized that their hair was once as nappy as mine. Don't you do it Sparkling Waves!

 

[SaturdayStevens]

Even though we've gotten soooooo off topic at times, I'll really glad that we're still having this discussion because

1) We have the freedom to discuss politics (and whether we agree with it or not) openly and freely. In other country's we'd probably be killed for saying bad things about our government even if what we say is true.

2) To my knowledge, we haven't been censored. On makeupgeek.com, the same subject was completely shut down. When it was still open, I wasn't allowed to say half the stuff we say on here. Even though I don't agree with a lot of you, at least I get to say so. And so do you. Its like "If you're offended by other peoples honest opinions, then you shouldn't be reading them". While discussing politics and democracy it's really not a good time to be imposing on my freedom of speech.

 

[FullWroth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by benzito_714 Now don't you go upsetting people telling them facts about us ALL originating from Africa. Not everyone wants to know that. Ohh especially if they realized that their hair was once as nappy as mine. Don't you do it Sparkling Waves!

To bring a bit of lightheartedness back into the thread and break up the tension, the Japanese sci-fi horror novel/movie/PSX game Parasite Eve uses that scientific discovery as its central premise. It just takes it one step further into sci-fi, where it turns out we all got our mitochondria from that one hypothetical African woman so long ago, and they're secretly parasites who've been guiding our evolution all these years and waiting for the right time to rise up and set us all on fire and start a new master mitochondria race.

I dunno. It made for some awesome action sequences in the movie and game, anyway.

Also, random geek factoid: our modern idea of "race" comes largely from a wacky German guy who, in the 19th century, pretty much pulled it all out of his butt (well, he pulled it out of our skulls). He's the one that divided us up into Caucasoid, Negroid and Mongoloid (and Malayan and Red - behold, political correctness of the past!), and then decided who was smarter and better and faster based on what we all look like. So you can blame him for getting us all into this mess.

(More info here, for my fellow geeks: Johann Friedrich Blumenbach - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

 

[benzito_714]

i didn't see this movie but i think Children of Men was trying to hint at the idea that the 'mother of all mother's' is African since everyone was sterile and the lone pregnant women was of African descent. interesting.

 

[darkwater_soul]

Quote:

Originally Posted by benzito_714 i didn't see this movie but i think Children of Men was trying to hint at the idea that the 'mother of all mother's' is African since everyone was sterile and the lone pregnant women was of African descent. interesting.

That's a bit of a reach, considering you just said you didn't see the movie. They never made mention in it about the significance of her race, she just happened to be black. Racism is the arbitrary assignment of importance based on a person's skin color. The movie is about a Dystopian society that faces extinction because of a mutated gene that caused all women to become sterile, and this woman did not have this gene. It had nothing to do with her skin color.

 

[hotmodelchiq]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FullWroth I think you're missing my point. I don't WANT a stupid Ukrainian awareness day. Everyone's history matters *all of the time*, not just when the government or a charity group tells you you should be paying attention to it. Black history doesn't stop existing outside of the month of February. I'm a little amazed that you don't find it insulting that people would rather throw you one month of the year than take the time to actually integrate black history into the current curriculum. You talk about needing to give black kids more role models who actually look like them, and needing to celebrate black history more, but what kind of a message are we sending to these kids by pulling the black historical figures out of the attic one month a year and then going back to business as usual the other 11 months? You don't think it a little discouraging to them that the white kids get to see their role models all year round and they don't? Black history month was a good idea when the majority of people still thought that blacks were inferior in intelligence to whites and nobody would even THINK of integrating black history into the general history curriculum. It was a good way to point out that hey, look, black people can do this stuff too! But I think we're a little further than that now, and we need to stop this separatist nonsense and just integrate already! Let the black kids and the white kids learn together about everyone's role models. Let them SEE how equal these people are by studying them at the same time. Kids can smell bullshit. When you TELL them blacks are equal and then never study blacks in history except when everyone HAS to, the words don't match up with the actions. And what you're missing is that I don't necessarily LIKE that. Just because my skin color's white, I'm supposed to identify with a bunch of white people from completely different cultures than mine, whose views may be completely alien to me? Why is it okay to group all of us together just because we share a skin color?

ok you must have missed my other post
Quote:

Originally Posted by hotmodelchiq I dont believe in nor celebrate black history month... thats like a slap in the face... so for 1 month we recognize the accomplishments of blacks but for the other 11 they go ignored... I think there needs to be a MASSIVE overhaul history curriculums nationwide and intergrate all history.

and look I'm not saying its right that you are all lumped together but I'm just being real thats how it is only because you are the majority, which is a situation closely related to people with Asian ethnicity... But I think the thing your missing is the same goes for Black Americans... Some of us are from the Caribbean (like myself), Mexico, Europe, and Australia but guess what... we don't get separated until we open our mouths which works in the negative for us because we are usually discriminated against sight unseen but you are accepted at first sight plain and simple. But I can understand why that frustrates you I really do... I guess people want to know what all the fuss is about because your "accepted" regardless...

It's nice to have these "special" months but lets flip it... Should we get rid of breast cancer awareness month and other "special" months that are not associated with race? I mean shouldn't we be aware of Breast cancer all year, and do our mammograms and self breast exams year round? I think the only answer to this is what I have been saying the WHOLE time... there needs to be a nationwide curriculum overhaul for history an all inclusive program...

 

[AdlersMommy22]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aziajs Incorrect.

Wow. I find that extreamly ridiculous. First of all- not every person of color has ridiculously hard struggles in life. Not every mexican, black american, asian, or indian person deals with a "hard" life.

Not every white person does either but there CERTAINLY are people out there who do.

I think its ridiculous to assume that a)every black person goes through all these massive struggles in life that no one else can relate to and b) that the poster hasn't live JUST as hard of a life as a person of color OR dealt with discrimination in other ways that are just as hard as people of color.

I <3 how just because im a white, middle class woman I apparently have this amazing life and face no discrimination and no struggles in life.

You're all right. Just because im white... it makes it so much easier to be a single mom, to work 40 hours a week, to go to school full time, to pay for a sitter, rent, car, phone....

The fact that im a single mom- i dont get dicriminated against at all. IN FACT- the fact that I live where I live, that I'm Catholic, that my dad is a COP- none of those things have led people to discriminate against me or try and make my life harder.

Someone go back to high school and tell the 17 year old me laying in the bathroom bawling her eyes out and dripping blood because some douche bag who hated cops decided to make up ridiculous rumors about me and my family and then beat the shit out of me in the hall... and THEN look at a teacher who refused to help me while it was happening because my uncle (who is also a cop) had arrested her son for vandalism the weekend prior.

But because im white that makes everything in my life so much easier. I face 0 discrimation at all. Thats right, I remember now.

 

[blindpassion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdlersMommy22 Wow. I find that extreamly ridiculous. First of all- not every person of color has ridiculously hard struggles in life. Not every mexican, black american, asian, or indian person deals with a "hard" life. Not every white person does either but there CERTAINLY are people out there who do. I think its ridiculous to assume that a)every black person goes through all these massive struggles in life that no one else can relate to and b) that the poster hasn't live JUST as hard of a life as a person of color OR dealt with discrimination in other ways that are just as hard as people of color. I <3 how just because im a white, middle class woman I apparently have this amazing life and face no discrimination and no struggles in life. You're all right. Just because im white... it makes it so much easier to be a single mom, to work 40 hours a week, to go to school full time, to pay for a sitter, rent, car, phone.... The fact that im a single mom- i dont get dicriminated against at all. IN FACT- the fact that I live where I live, that I'm Catholic, that my dad is a COP- none of those things have led people to discriminate against me or try and make my life harder. Someone go back to high school and tell the 17 year old me laying in the bathroom bawling her eyes out and dripping blood because some douche bag who hated cops decided to make up ridiculous rumors about me and my family and then beat the shit out of me in the hall... and THEN look at a teacher who refused to help me while it was happening because my uncle (who is also a cop) had arrested her son for vandalism the weekend prior. But because im white that makes everything in my life so much easier. I face 0 discrimation at all. Thats right, I remember now.

Thank-you for this. <3

 

[concertina]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdlersMommy22 Wow. I find that extreamly ridiculous. First of all- not every person of color has ridiculously hard struggles in life. Not every mexican, black american, asian, or indian person deals with a "hard" life. Not every white person does either but there CERTAINLY are people out there who do. I think its ridiculous to assume that a)every black person goes through all these massive struggles in life that no one else can relate to and b) that the poster hasn't live JUST as hard of a life as a person of color OR dealt with discrimination in other ways that are just as hard as people of color. I <3 how just because im a white, middle class woman I apparently have this amazing life and face no discrimination and no struggles in life. You're all right. Just because im white... it makes it so much easier to be a single mom, to work 40 hours a week, to go to school full time, to pay for a sitter, rent, car, phone.... ............... But because im white that makes everything in my life so much easier. I face 0 discrimation at all. Thats right, I remember now.

There is a culture of systematic racism and discrimination in this country. So no, unless you are a person of color, you really *don't* get it. Thats not saying that you'll never face discrimination, but it is not inherent in the system.

When you leave your town and go elsewhere, people don't know you're Catholic and the daughter of the cop. When a person of color goes elsewhere, that racism and discrimination follows them EVERYWHERE THEY GO. Be they low income or high; that doesn't matter to the bigoted people who only see their skin color.

There are quite a few articles and books out there on white privilege. The gut-reaction to brush it aside or say 'thats not me' is strong. But I think everyone should take time to think about it.

 

[TISH1124]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdlersMommy22 Wow. I find that extreamly ridiculous. First of all- not every person of color has ridiculously hard struggles in life. Not every mexican, black american, asian, or indian person deals with a "hard" life. Not every white person does either but there CERTAINLY are people out there who do. I think its ridiculous to assume that a)every black person goes through all these massive struggles in life that no one else can relate to and b) that the poster hasn't live JUST as hard of a life as a person of color OR dealt with discrimination in other ways that are just as hard as people of color. I <3 how just because im a white, middle class woman I apparently have this amazing life and face no discrimination and no struggles in life. You're all right. Just because im white... it makes it so much easier to be a single mom, to work 40 hours a week, to go to school full time, to pay for a sitter, rent, car, phone.... The fact that im a single mom- i dont get dicriminated against at all. IN FACT- the fact that I live where I live, that I'm Catholic, that my dad is a COP- none of those things have led people to discriminate against me or try and make my life harder. Someone go back to high school and tell the 17 year old me laying in the bathroom bawling her eyes out and dripping blood because some douche bag who hated cops decided to make up ridiculous rumors about me and my family and then beat the shit out of me in the hall... and THEN look at a teacher who refused to help me while it was happening because my uncle (who is also a cop) had arrested her son for vandalism the weekend prior. But because im white that makes everything in my life so much easier. I face 0 discrimation at all. Thats right, I remember now.

No but in all due respect...You chose to be a Single Mom...so the struggles that come with that white or black has nothing to do with the topic.

 

[AdlersMommy22]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TISH1127 No but in all due respect...You chose to be a Single Mom...so the struggles that come with that white or black has nothing to do with the topic.

I totally understand that

But my argument here is that saying that the poster didnt face discrimination like colored people do is "incorrect" is ridiculous. I know some white people who have faced even more or worse discrimination than a lot of colored people i know. I also know colored people who have faced higer levels of discrimination.

I am in no way trying to take away from the biggoted levels of discrimination that black people face. It makes me sick.. Ive gotton into so many heated debates and passionate arguments with dumb ass racist people that Ive been brought to tears over it. Anyone on here who knows me knows I view life in the ultimate highest regard- and for people to put down another person based on their skintone is so horrible that it makes my stomach turn.

However my point was--Everyone's life is different... and it's unfair to generalize someone's hardships as "worse" or "easier" based solely on the fact that they may be black or not.